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Opinion Crysis Remastered is the perfect benchmark for the next-gen consoles

sncvsrtoip

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so poorly optimized game made by team that is one leg in grave working at backward compatibility (so gcn instructions) on consoles is great benchmark, laughed at this even more than on you last statement that Mortal Shell is on graphical pair with Demon Sould r (tough you chagned your mind after playing game) ;d
 
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ethomaz

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And what does that mean bro? Does that mean I can't change the resolution which is switching the graphics state to a higher res? Or is that NOT allowed in BC mode? Did you help with the design of the BC mode on the PS5?
You can change the resolution of a PS4/PS4 Pro game... yes.
 
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VFXVeteran

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You can change the resolution of a PS4/PS4 Pro game... yes but you will still be limited to what you have on these hardware.
Changing the resolution automatically makes it NOT pure BC mode dude. You would know this if you were a programmer.
 

ethomaz

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Changing the resolution automatically makes it NOT pure BC mode dude. You would know this if you were a programmer.
It is pure BC.
It changes automatically because it was coded to change when it is running in PS5 BC Mode.
It is a change in the PS4/PS4 Pro game for that.

Since the new PS4 SDK in June 2020 the PS4/PS4 Pro knows you are running in a PS5 and can code new options or profiles for PS5 in BC Mode... that is what is called PS4 BC games patched to PS5.

It is still running in BC Mode... the APU is in full BC mode... the code is all for PS4/PS4 Pro... there is no code made on PS5 SDK for PS5 APU.

Think like that... you have now three profiles on PS4 SDK:

PS4
PS4 Pro
PS5 BC Mode (the APU runs exactly like the PS4 or PS4 Pro APUs at hardware level... it can take benefice from the higher clocks).

On PS5 SDK you have one profile:

PS5
 
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Zathalus

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What a odd thread. Crysis remastered on consoles is not indicative of anything. It's a poorly optimized game engine from over a decade ago that has a hack job of RT extensions implemented into it. On top of that, the consoles are running in BC mode, so none of the features of RDNA 2 are present, such as the IPC gains and hardware accelerated RT (as confirmed by MS themselves). To add to that, you will have a software overhead from the emulation taking place.

If the game was actually developed with the modern Cryengine, and was a native game utilizing the RT acceleration on RDNA 2, then sure, you can use it as a benchmark if you wish. If that was the case however, then the game would be performing significantly better on both consoles.

Your comment against AMD is also odd, going with Nvidia for the PS4/Xbox One generation would have been a terrible idea as Kepler was just worse then GCN, and only stayed ahead of GCN on the PC due to AMDs lackluster drivers and DX11 performance at the time. Low-level APIs such as Dx12 and Vulkan with Async compute clearly demonstrated that GCN was the superior architecture.

Even if both consoles could have had a single SOC combining an AMD CPU and Nvidia GPU for this generation, that would not have led to better console performance. AMD and Nvidia are very close with normal rasterization, with Nvidia leading the way in RT performance, but Nvidia is lacking in both performance per watt and die size when compared to AMD. Even accounting for the difference in 8nm VS 7nm, going Nvidia would have just resulted in a weaker GPU for normal rasterization and a bit better RT performance as console are limited by die size and power consumption.

This thread feels like a thinly disguised attempt to once again discredit consoles (weirdly enough AMD as well).
 

Kuranghi

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Given how well they handle alphas at really high resolutions right now, this would be the result of "ultra high quality next-gen alpha transparencies" on GPUs:



Thats Mark Cerny's desert-home.
 
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Epic Sax CEO

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My take is that this is a benchmark that shows the gamer a "looking glass" of what the next-gen consoles can brute force raw pixels onto the screen. [/MEDIA]

Come back to me and repeat this when games start coming out with engines build to use the new paradigms, like Mesh Shaders.
 

daclynk

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i dont think it is. firstly, they didnt make the game with the hardware in mind so it did not utilizing every feature of the Next gen at all. They just ported the Last Gen versions. i wished they built it from the ground up using all the utilities.
 

bender

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Shodan09

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No doubt.

The dev always seemed more a like a tech demo company trying to sell it's game engine than a game company who focused on games themselves.
If this is true then how come gameplay wise Crysis is still streets ahead of modern FPS games?
 
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thelastword

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Why do people keep saying the graphics are just PS3/360 era, it's not. The game was remastered, they used the PS3 version as a base because that was already coded for multi core CPU's, yet they did add many improvements to the remaster which has been detailed on the website and in trailers.......

Better textures (high resolution, up to 8k I believe)
Better lighting
Better volumetrics
Better SSR
Better materials
Better shaders
Better shadows
Much better Draw distance
Improved Foliage
Better effects/explosions
 

Guilty_AI

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I get your point, but i don't think rasing the bar would be a good idea.
Consoles are supposed to deliver entertainement at a budget, not be all poweful machines that are the top of everything else in the market. Thats just what some fanboys want to be truth.

Why do people keep saying the graphics are just PS3/360 era, it's not. The game was remastered, they used the PS3 version as a base because that was already coded for multi core CPU's, yet they did add many improvements to the remaster which has been detailed on the website and in trailers.......

Better textures (high resolution, up to 8k I believe)
Better lighting
Better volumetrics
Better SSR
Better materials
Better shaders
Better shadows
Much better Draw distance
Improved Foliage
Better effects/explosions
uh, what.

you know we're talking about Crysis remaster here right?


nvm, read now Crysis R was based on the ps360 version
 
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thelastword

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I get your point, but i don't think rasing the bar would be a good idea.
Consoles are supposed to deliver entertainement at a budget, not be all poweful machines that are the top of everything else in the market. Thats just what some fanboys want to be truth.


uh, what.

you know we're talking about Crysis remaster here right?
You may not like the changes they implemented artistically, but all the changes are enhanced graphical techniques from a more advanced cryengine and are definitely more tasking on the GPU and Vram count......
 

VFXVeteran

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What a odd thread. Crysis remastered on consoles is not indicative of anything. It's a poorly optimized game engine from over a decade ago that has a hack job of RT extensions implemented into it. On top of that, the consoles are running in BC mode, so none of the features of RDNA 2 are present, such as the IPC gains and hardware accelerated RT (as confirmed by MS themselves). To add to that, you will have a software overhead from the emulation taking place.
BC mode doesn't mean the console can't reach faster FPS. You should know that.

If the game was actually developed with the modern Cryengine, and was a native game utilizing the RT acceleration on RDNA 2, then sure, you can use it as a benchmark if you wish. If that was the case however, then the game would be performing significantly better on both consoles.

This thread is not about the ideal condition. You took the phrase of the title and misunderstood it entirely.

With every generation of a new graphics GPU, you can reload an old game and the new GPUs sheer power will push the FPS and resolution higher by default. Without coding a single line. I expected to see this on consoles due to their better hardware. I'm disappointed and frustrated - not trolling the consoles.

Your comment against AMD is also odd, going with Nvidia for the PS4/Xbox One generation would have been a terrible idea as Kepler was just worse then GCN, and only stayed ahead of GCN on the PC due to AMDs lackluster drivers and DX11 performance at the time. Low-level APIs such as Dx12 and Vulkan with Async compute clearly demonstrated that GCN was the superior architecture.

AMD is simply far behind Nvidia. Did you even watch Jensen's speech at the GTC? They are way ahead and not just RT. Their AI, drivers, visions, influence and overall quality of their product is better. No one on here, if given the choice, would choose AMD over Nvidia for PS6/X2 consoles. Their reputation is that good.

This thread feels like a thinly disguised attempt to once again discredit consoles (weirdly enough AMD as well).
It's not a disguise at all. I am much invested in the consoles as anyone else on these boards. I'm just a realist and see things without bias. I do love my PS5 btw.
 
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VFXVeteran

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You cant achieve 4k 60fps in a 3090, and you are blaming consoles instead of poor optimization? What?
You absolutely can achieve MORE than 60FPS but I'm running the game with ultra details enabled. Basically spamming the absolute worst case scenario with all of their features. If I chose the settings on the consoles, I'm sure I would push way more than 120FPS. This is not console vs. PC thread. It's a thread that is my opinion on why with this latest release on consoles is way way disappointing with the amount of reduction they had to do to get this game to run properly. This is an ongoing trend with ALL the games that have been released so far. The rasterization power is just not there. I have a right to be disappointed and discuss without people getting personal about it.
 
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Akuji

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Lol, this thread is as funny as the assumption op pulls out of his ass. We should quit talking about 0-60 / 0-100 times when it comes to cars and only talk about the power of the engine because that’s the real benchmark.
 
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assurdum

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BC mode doesn't mean the console can't reach faster FPS. You should know that.



This thread is not about the ideal condition. You took the phrase of the title and misunderstood it entirely.

With every generation of a new graphics GPU, you can reload an old game and the new GPUs sheer power will push the FPS and resolution higher by default. Without coding a single line. I expected to see this on consoles due to their better hardware. I'm disappointed and frustrated - not trolling the consoles.



AMD is simply far behind Nvidia. Did you even watch Jensen's speech at the GTC? They are way ahead and not just RT. Their AI, drivers, visions, influence and overall quality of their product is better. No one on here, if given the choice, would choose AMD over Nvidia for PS6/X2 consoles. Their reputation is that good.


It's not a disguise at all. I am much invested in the consoles as anyone else on these boards. I'm just a realist and see things without bias. I do love my PS5 btw.
Come on. BC especially via hardware dries all the resources in the emulation process and you can't even use the whole hardware specs properly because emulation doesn't allow it. Furthermore Crysys remaster runs totally shitty, it freeze even in the fucking checkpoint. What's the point to use such horrible mess as benchmark.
 
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VFXVeteran

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Come on. BC especially via hardware dries all the resources in the emulation process and you can't even use the hardware specs properly because emulation doesn't allow it. Furthermore Crysys remaster runs totally shitty, it drops even in the fucking checkpoint. What's the point to use such mess as benchmark.
It's MY benchmark because it IS the worst case scenario. If the game was running in BC mode, there wouldn't have been an updated patch. It would just play as if it was a PS4Pro on the PS5. We all know what true BC mode means. We are seeing old code, but modified to run on the consoles. This trashy game port isn't just the BC mode limiting the hardware from pushing pixels to the screen fast enough.
 
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assurdum

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It's MY benchmark because it IS the worst case scenario. If the game was running in BC mode, there wouldn't have been an updated patch. It would just play as if it was a PS4Pro on the PS5. We all know what true BC mode means. We are seeing old code, but modified to run on the consoles. This trashy game port isn't just the BC mode limiting the hardware from pushing pixels to the screen fast enough.
The hell you are talking about. It literally runs at the same graphic setting of the pro, on ps5. They just unlocked the FPS there. It runs at higher resolution even on series S.
 
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VFXVeteran

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I certainly hope a half-assed BC port isn't the best showcase for the new tech in the consoles. Software RT over using the HW, etc.
Of course not. It's not a showcase at all for new tech. But it does tell you something about the power of the GPUs here. I'm not going to pass this game off as just a clusterfuck of a mess. What has unnerved me is the amount of basic reductions to the graphics pipeline in order to get FPS. Things like lower res textures, and lower anisotropic filtering.. things that you just simply turn on.
 

VFXVeteran

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The hell you are talking about. It literally runs at the same graphic setting of the pro, on ps5. They just unlocked the FPS there. It runs at higher resolution even on series S.
If you change the FPS to be unlocked, it's no longer BC mode dude. Same with the resolution. The FPS being unlocked means the GPU can render as fast as it can and it's not pretty.
 

Mr Moose

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It's MY benchmark because it IS the worst case scenario. If the game was running in BC mode, there wouldn't have been an updated patch. It would just play as if it was a PS4Pro on the PS5. We all know what true BC mode means. We are seeing old code, but modified to run on the consoles. This trashy game port isn't just the BC mode limiting the hardware from pushing pixels to the screen fast enough.
It is running in BC mode, it's not a PS5 game.
You can't play PS5 games off an external HDD.
 

assurdum

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If you change the FPS to be unlocked, it's no longer BC mode dude. Same with the resolution. The FPS being unlocked means the GPU can render as fast as it can and it's not pretty.
False. Cerny explained how BC worked in road to the ps5. There are 3 BC mode on ps5. The third is called ps5 enhanced BC or something like that.
 
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JerryinSoCal

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In theory, yes.

The problem is software enabled backwards compatibility. We don't know how much performance is being left on the table. It's basically emulation as I understand it, which in and of itself requires cycles to execute the code. Versus on the PC the game runs natively and has access to MUCH faster hardware.

Correct me if I'm wrong. I like analysis like yours, I'm just missing the smoking gun part where there is a correlation. I'm just not seeing it.
He seems to be comparing how they would run on PC where games scale vs consoles playing in BC mode where they don't scale and trying to make it sound like it's the same thing which it's not.
 
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FireFly

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It's not in pure BC. If it was there would be no graphics modes for the consoles and there wouldn't need to be a specific release for the nextgen consoles. It would just play like the PS4/1X all the way down to the FPS and resolution and the performance numbers would match 1:1 with the older hardware.

"We made it easy for existing Xbox One S games to be updated to run with double the frame-rate when played on Series S as well. When games are updated, existing games can query to determine whether they're running on the new console. "


"There may be the some consternation that Series X back-compat isn't a cure-all to all performance issues on all games, but again, this is the GPU running in compatibility mode, where it emulates the behaviour of the last generation Xbox - you aren't seeing the architectural improvements to performance from RDNA 2, which Microsoft says is 25 per cent to the better, teraflop to teraflop. And obviously, these games are not coded for RDNA 2 or Series X, meaning that access to the actual next-gen features like variable rate shading or mesh shaders simply does not exist."


Essentially, RDNA2 can run like GCN, so in backwards compatability mode you're getting the equivalent of a 12 TF GCN GPU, which would be something like the Vega 64. And through the XDK, developers can enable new graphical modes for this "Vega 64" class console. There's really no need to spread misinformation, when we already have good sources and a whole bunch of work by DF on this.
 

VFXVeteran

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"We made it easy for existing Xbox One S games to be updated to run with double the frame-rate when played on Series S as well. When games are updated, existing games can query to determine whether they're running on the new console. "


"There may be the some consternation that Series X back-compat isn't a cure-all to all performance issues on all games, but again, this is the GPU running in compatibility mode, where it emulates the behaviour of the last generation Xbox - you aren't seeing the architectural improvements to performance from RDNA 2, which Microsoft says is 25 per cent to the better, teraflop to teraflop. And obviously, these games are not coded for RDNA 2 or Series X, meaning that access to the actual next-gen features like variable rate shading or mesh shaders simply does not exist."


Essentially, RDNA2 can run like GCN, so in backwards compatability mode you're getting the equivalent of a 12 TF GCN GPU, which would be something like the Vega 64. And through the XDK, developers can enable new graphical modes for this "Vega 64" class console. There's really no need to spread misinformation, when we already have good sources and a whole bunch of work by DF on this.

"The PlayStation 5 upgrade for Crysis Remastered works wonders, yet Performance Mode showcases how the shooter still struggles to maintain 60 frames per second. Crytek surprise released the remaster's next-gen upgrades for PS5 and Xbox Series X|S last week. The update improved the experience with three different modes - Quality, Performance, and RayTracing."

"...it does run better overall. However, Digital Foundry found a few noteworthy hiccups that suggest Crysis Remastered's console performance still isn't up to par"
 
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FireFly

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"The PlayStation 5 upgrade for Crysis Remastered works wonders, yet Performance Mode showcases how the shooter still struggles to maintain 60 frames per second. Crytek surprise released the remaster's next-gen upgrades for PS5 and Xbox Series X|S last week. The update improved the experience with three different modes - Quality, Performance, and RayTracing."

"...it does run better overall. However, Digital Foundry found a few noteworthy hiccups that suggest Crysis Remastered's console performance still isn't up to par"
What does that have to do with the question of whether backwards compatability mode is emulating GCN architecture?
 
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VFXVeteran

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What does that have to do with the question of whether backwards compatability mode is emulating GCN architecture?
The game was touched upon to run on the consoles BETTER than the last gen consoles. That's a fact. Now explain to me why the consoles needed so many reductions in it's performance mode to hit 60FPS. I don't want to hear BC when you are forcing the GPU to run as fast as it can (faster than last gen consoles).
 
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FireFly

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The game was touched upon to run on the consoles BETTER than the last gen consoles. That's a fact. Now explain to me why the consoles needed so many reductions in it's performance mode to hit 60FPS. I don't want to hear BC when you are forcing the GPU to run as fast as it can (faster than last gen consoles).
Well, lets go find some Vega 64/1080 benchmarks and we can compare. Since that's the level of performance backwards compatability mode is expected to deliver.
 

VFXVeteran

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Well, lets go find some Vega 64/1080 benchmarks and we can compare. Since that's the level of performance backwards compatability mode is expected to deliver.
You won't be able to figure out the rendering settings from the consoles right now unless you ask one of the developers. Maybe we should do that instead?
 
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VFXVeteran

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What is the point of this though… practically?
The point for me is that it's way too early for my PS5 to be at it's limit with rasterization. This will completely determine whether there will be a mid-gen refresh or not. I don't want last gen all over again and I'm starting to see it.. It would be a waste of time and money if they released a machine they should have released from day one. With how hardware is these days with scalpers, it would aggrevate the gaming industry to have to find a more powerful iteration on the market after thinking this was it for the entire generation.
 
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assurdum

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The game was touched upon to run on the consoles BETTER than the last gen consoles. That's a fact. Now explain to me why the consoles needed so many reductions in it's performance mode to hit 60FPS. I don't want to hear BC when you are forcing the GPU to run as fast as it can (faster than last gen consoles).
You can't be serious. PS4 pro improved FPS and dynamic higher resolution via BC just unlocking the highest frequency of the CPU/GPU. Really you are trying to argue BC can't be enhanced with faster frequency?
 
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Panajev2001a

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The point for me is that it's way too early for my PS5 to be at it's limit with rasterization. This will completely determine whether there will be a mid-gen refresh or not. I don't want last gen all over again and I'm starting to see it..

Sorry, but this thread seems to be “unoptimised software running on an old engine is not taking advantage of the new consoles / can clobber performance in surprising an amazing ways” —The Thread…

I think MS will want to do a refresh and if they do at some point after that Sony would do it too not to have to drop ASP’s overall… still HW improvements are still slowing down (not seeing them speed up) and until Apple is on 3nm good luck finding a lot of wafers for 5nm refreshes… so 🤷‍♂️.
 
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VFXVeteran

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You can't be serious. PS4 pro improved FPS and dynamic higher resolution via BC just unlocking the highest frequency of the CPU/GPU. Really you are trying to argue BC can't be enhanced with faster frequency?
I'm arguing that the next-gen consoles can't render constant 60FPS even when the resolution has dropped all the way down to 1080p. To me that shows a rasterization limitation. No need to argue with me like I don't know what I'm saying. We are all watching the same video that DF put in. And even they complain about it. Why does it seem like I'm saying something new?
 
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assurdum

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I'm arguing that the next-gen consoles can't render constant 60FPS even when the resolution has dropped all the way down to 1080p. To me that shows a rasterization limitation. No need to argue with me like I don't know what I'm saying. We are all watching the same video that DF put in. And even they complain about it. Why does it seem like I'm saying something new?
To me just shows the code is a total mess because no way such pipeline can't be rendered at 1080p 60 fps with such console specs. It's literally absurd use it as benchmark because who knows if it uses properly the multicore processing of the 8 cores or the multithreading (which I really, really doubt). I don't follow you.
 
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AgentP

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If you change the FPS to be unlocked, it's no longer BC mode dude. Same with the resolution. The FPS being unlocked means the GPU can render as fast as it can and it's not pretty.
I think it is just a flag for PS4 BC, FPS cap 30 -> 60 when it detects PS5. This is not a native PS5 build. You can can instantly recognize this because it can be installed on a USB drive like all the other PS4 BC game including R&C and GoW which recently got the same FPS change.
 
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assurdum

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I can't come to that conclusion unless I see the code.

Let's hope that we don't get these kinds of results when CDPR comes out with their next-gen version of Cyberpunk.
I give up. Why you persist in such absurd argument it's literally unexplainable. Why an horrible port should be used as benchmark? I already tell you this game runs at higher resolution on series S. It seems normal to you an higher dynamic resolution in a weaker console? It's practically BC with unlocked processor frequency via GCN. RDNA 2 architecture is completely out of the table. This conversation starts to be really ridiculous.
 
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VFXVeteran

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I think it is just a flag for PS4 BC, FPS cap 30 -> 60 when it detects PS5. This is not a native PS5 build. You can can instantly recognize this because it can be installed on a USB drive like all the other PS4 BC game including R&C and GoW which recently got the same FPS change.
I will reach out to the developers. This is not the case of a simple BC switch. They had to code up all the various rendering modes. And Performance mode should have been able to maintain 60FPS. It is supposed to perform better than the PS4 Pro.