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[mortal]

What is "soul" in a videogame?

Is that like nostalgia?

From what I've gathered. It's either about nostalgia and/or being more crude looking. Sometimes it's completely arbitrary often boils down to 'new thing bad, old thing good'

 

[SnapShot]

Uh oh...

lmao that was quick

 

[Neff]

Honestly this is a brilliant video.

I disagree. He seems to be mostly sore about people saying the remake is better, particularly those who (like IGN) go to the lengths of trashing the original. And while he's right about them being wrong, it's clouding/exaggerating his critique of the remake. He's wrong about the remake's moveset being unreliable. It's much heavier compared to the original (like REmake's was), but it's still 100% consistent. He complains about spacing not being important in the remake only to complain about getting swamped by enemies. He bemoans the lack of arcade-oriented gameplay yet complains about being given more states to quickly react to. He talks about risk/reward mechanics balancing each other out as if it's a case of the developer attempting to solve their own problems- which it is! It's literally how good games are made. It's less a critique of RE4 and more of a IGN hit piece, which is unfair. RE4 is extremely well-balanced, even on higher difficulties with weak gear. Speedrunners are already nuking what is generally regarded as a difficult game and that wouldn't be possible with unreliable controls.

I tried watching it but had to stop when he started explaining how knife slashing stunned enemies on the ground is the peak genius melee mechanic

Exactly. He has a specific problem with the fact that the remake no longer allows him to play a specific way. Knifing enemies is a good way to survive when you have no ammo, but he deliberately avoids ammo, so is he speedrunning? Not really, because knifing enemies is slow. He just likes knifing I guess, but I'll argue that the knife mechanics are one aspect of the remake which is dramatically superior to the original. They made it a consumable defensive weapon which is incredibly important instead of a last resort offensive weapon, which you'll never use anyway if you're actually good at the original.

What is "soul" in a videogame?

To me, regarding the way the phrase is used for gaming, it feels like a personal creative touch, which is something games have inevitably lost as they get bigger and demand more human effort. Modern games still have soul, it's just less personal.

 

[Soodanim]

From what I've gathered. It's either about nostalgia and/or being more crude looking. Sometimes it's completely arbitrary often boils down to 'new thing bad, old thing good'

I don't think that's either an accurate or an honest summation.

DeepEnigma an attempt at an honest understanding of what people mean by soul in this context:

People see greatly adored originals as games that were loved in the first place because they were greater than the sum of their parts. Everything crafted for that specific experience. In RE4's case, part of that is what Mikami directed, and it's no coincidence that he's renowned. It's not a coincidence that 4 has been loved for so many years by so many. The soul would encompass the personality, the atmosphere, and the execution of the various things it aims to accomplish and in almost intangible way. I suppose it's the idea of the devs putting their heart and soul into a project and it showing.

By their very nature, remakes are working to make something that already exists, and even when Capcom reimagined RE2-4 the goal was to recreate and modify. By design that deviates from the original, and people see the changes as lesser than as a result. If you try to recreate a puzzle with different pieces it's not going to look the same when you're done.

Some things are likely inevitable, as advances in graphica mean you can't put out the same game with the same comparatively simple visual design, and that road is perhaps what leads to yellow paint on every interactable object in the game. Is it avoidable? Yes, because not every game does it. But the real reason they did that is something we will never know.

Is nostalgia part of it? Sure. Do people romanticise the original and it's development? Probably. Both sides of any internet argument attract equal amounts of "Look how ridiculous the other side is being", and this is no exception.

The fact is that remakes will always be compared to their originals, and there will always be an inherent bias because people love or hate the original.

The word "nostalgia" has turned into a go-to word to dismiss criticism, and that's intellectually dishonest.

 

[mortal]

I don't think that's either an accurate or an honest summation.

I suppose so. Although nearly every instance of SOUL/SOULESS meme involved those things I mentioned.
Maybe I'm missing something and I have no idea, but that's what I've primarily encountered online.

Also, I don't really appreciate the insinuation that I was being dishonest.
I've never personally made use of this meme, so that was my genuine take on it.

 

[Come On Tars]

Can't tell if the title change is sarcasm or if he cowered?

 

[Ribi]

R4make is very soulless. Lots of people in denial here

 

[Dr. Claus]

I disagree. He seems to be mostly sore about people saying the remake is better, particularly those who (like IGN) go to the lengths of trashing the original. And while he's right about them being wrong, it's clouding/exaggerating his critique of the remake. He's wrong about the remake's moveset being unreliable. It's much heavier compared to the original (like REmake's was), but it's still 100% consistent. He complains about spacing not being important in the remake only to complain about getting swamped by enemies. He bemoans the lack of arcade-oriented gameplay yet complains about being given more states to quickly react to. He talks about risk/reward mechanics balancing each other out as if it's a case of the developer attempting to solve their own problems- which it is! It's literally how good games are made. It's less a critique of RE4 and more of a IGN hit piece, which is unfair. RE4 is extremely well-balanced, even on higher difficulties with weak gear. Speedrunners are already nuking what is generally regarded as a difficult game and that wouldn't be possible with unreliable controls.



Exactly. He has a specific problem with the fact that the remake no longer allows him to play a specific way. Knifing enemies is a good way to survive when you have no ammo, but he deliberately avoids ammo, so is he speedrunning? Not really, because knifing enemies is slow. He just likes knifing I guess, but I'll argue that the knife mechanics are one aspect of the remake which is dramatically superior to the original. They made it a consumable defensive weapon which is incredibly important instead of a last resort offensive weapon, which you'll never use anyway if you're actually good at the original.



To me, regarding the way the phrase is used for gaming, it feels like a personal creative touch, which is something games have inevitably lost as they get bigger and demand more human effort. Modern games still have soul, it's just less personal.

The people who think this is a good video are ones who already had a bone to pick with the game and haven't even played the fucking thing. Folks like OCASM were already pushing prior to launch that hte game was shit, a failure, a mistake, etc. Punished Miku already came out and stated they only ever played the demo and the only reason they like this video is because it bolsters their preconieved notion that the game is shit.

Meanwhile everyone who *actually played the game* realizes how poorly thought out this video is. The outright lies and disingenuous claims it makes. I don't care if people like or hate or love or despise this game. I just want people to be honest with the actual issues and good things it does - this video is nothing more than a massive lie. Its no different than a covid conspiracy nut posting nonsensical bullshit because their minds were already made up. Not any new scientific discoveries or insights, just some random twit that promotes their views.

 

[The artful mincer]

Can't tell if the title change is sarcasm or if he cowered?

Whatever reason it's rather silly. I don't agree with his original title but he should stuck to his guns.

If it's about trolling people who disagreed with him well that's rather immature. If it's just about the clicks well that just plain spineless.

There's gonna be a whole bunch of people who won't be aware of the title change so what are they meant to think?

All round a bit of shitshow.

 

[Generic]

I disagree. He seems to be mostly sore about people saying the remake is better, particularly those who (like IGN) go to the lengths of trashing the original. And while he's right about them being wrong, it's clouding/exaggerating his critique of the remake. He's wrong about the remake's moveset being unreliable. It's much heavier compared to the original (like REmake's was), but it's still 100% consistent. He complains about spacing not being important in the remake only to complain about getting swamped by enemies. He bemoans the lack of arcade-oriented gameplay yet complains about being given more states to quickly react to. He talks about risk/reward mechanics balancing each other out as if it's a case of the developer attempting to solve their own problems- which it is! It's literally how good games are made. It's less a critique of RE4 and more of a IGN hit piece, which is unfair. RE4 is extremely well-balanced, even on higher difficulties with weak gear. Speedrunners are already nuking what is generally regarded as a difficult game and that wouldn't be possible with unreliable controls.



Exactly. He has a specific problem with the fact that the remake no longer allows him to play a specific way. Knifing enemies is a good way to survive when you have no ammo, but he deliberately avoids ammo, so is he speedrunning? Not really, because knifing enemies is slow. He just likes knifing I guess, but I'll argue that the knife mechanics are one aspect of the remake which is dramatically superior to the original. They made it a consumable defensive weapon which is incredibly important instead of a last resort offensive weapon, which you'll never use anyway if you're actually good at the original.



To me, regarding the way the phrase is used for gaming, it feels like a personal creative touch, which is something games have inevitably lost as they get bigger and demand more human effort. Modern games still have soul, it's just less personal.

Except the knife in the original RE4 isn't a "last resort weapon", it's a basic weapon that you will use all the time to conserve ammo.

 

[Generic]

The people who think this is a good video are ones who already had a bone to pick with the game and haven't even played the fucking thing. Folks like OCASM were already pushing prior to launch that hte game was shit, a failure, a mistake, etc. Punished Miku already came out and stated they only ever played the demo and the only reason they like this video is because it bolsters their preconieved notion that the game is shit.

Meanwhile everyone who *actually played the game* realizes how poorly thought out this video is. The outright lies and disingenuous claims it makes. I don't care if people like or hate or love or despise this game. I just want people to be honest with the actual issues and good things it does - this video is nothing more than a massive lie. Its no different than a covid conspiracy nut posting nonsensical bullshit because their minds were already made up. Not any new scientific discoveries or insights, just some random twit that promotes their views.

The point of a demo is to sell the game, if the demo is bad there's no reason to buy the full game. Also, the gameplay mechanics are all in the demo, you don't need to buy the game to learn them.

 

[ozz ex machina]

His channel has been going downhill. His first few videos were so good. This is just petty and far reaching. Just comes across very bitter now. Borderline delusional/nostalgia goggled.

 

[Neff]

Except the knife in the original RE4 isn't a "last resort weapon", it's a basic weapon that you will use all the time to conserve ammo.

You don't need to conserve ammo. The game's drop system will, within certain RNG parameters, generate what you need, when you need it, based on your inventory. And not only that but the game has plenty of ammo lying around. I'll use bullets to open crates and shoot enemies on the floor because it's quicker and more efficient, and I've seen director Shinji Mikami do the same.




I've never used the knife once, even on my first run. Like other RE titles, the knife is there in case you really screw up, using it all the time is unnecessary.

 

[Sleepwalker]

Lol so he changed the video title? What a pussy.

He also apparently made a positive video about some VR game he liked and his audience accused him of being a shill so he took it down. That's what you get when you build an audience of sad, jaded and bitter cunts.

 

[Generic]

You don't need to conserve ammo. The game's drop system will, within certain RNG parameters, generate what you need, when you need it, based on your inventory. And not only that but the game has plenty of ammo lying around. I'll shoot enemies on the floor because it's quicker and more efficient, and I've seen director Shinji Mikami do the same. I've never used the knife once, even on my first run. Like other RE titles, the knife is there in case you really screw up, using it all the time is unnecessary.

No, using the knife to conserve ammo makes the toughest parts of the game way easier (ex: the water room) since you will have a plenty of ammo for the strongest guns, plus grenades.

Sure you can shoot everything to death, but the game will be harder. I don't trust the god of RNG.

 

[Soodanim]

I suppose so. Although nearly every instance of SOUL/SOULESS meme involved those things I mentioned.
Maybe I'm missing something and I have no idea, but that's what I've primarily encountered online.

Also, I don't really appreciate the insinuation that I was being dishonest.
I've never personally made use of this meme, so that was my genuine take on it.

I took it to be intentionally reductionist (hence my attempt to explain what people mean by soul), so if that doesn't apply to you consider that part retracted

 

[Sleepwalker]

You can still use the knife to conserve ammo and kill enemies after knocking them down. If it breaks the game gives you so many random kitchen/boot knifes so you can keep going.

 

[Neff]

No, using the knife to conserve ammo makes the toughest parts of the game way easier (ex: the water room) since you will have a plenty of ammo for the strongest guns.

Not really. The less ammo you have, the more you're given. The more you have, the less you're given. You always have this standard equilibrium of safety net assets protecting you. You can stockpile it to an extent, but diminishing returns are a thing. There really is no benefit to using the knife if you have ammo. But I can appreciate that it's beneficial for a more cautious player.

 

[DevilMayFlyForAWhiteGuy]

I mean the original is still better, but a slightly worse version of RE4 is still better than most stuff that comes out nowadays, which is why many are so quick to put it on a pedestal.

 

[Punished Miku]

The point of a demo is to sell the game, if the demo is bad there's no reason to buy the full game. Also, the gameplay mechanics are all in the demo, you don't need to buy the game to learn them.

A lot of people on here made very definitive statements about Forspoken just based off the demo and almost no one cares. Everyone knows what you stated above and just conveniently forget it when they feel like it.

People with good reading comprehension will note I never once claimed to be an expert on the game and openly talked about how my impression is just based on the demo. Its not a secret I'm hiding. All I've said is that I enjoyed the comparison video because I specifically have been wanting to see it, and that it does confirm my initial poor impression of the game. That opinion can change when I play it of course, but I did at least play the demo multiple times. As for the second video, I just like how that guy talks about video games. He focuses on things I like to see talked about. I never said he was the 100% true and only valid opinion because I'm not a 2 year old, and people can think whatever they want.

As for the theory that I have a bone to pick with RE4, I dont even know what that means? I love RE4. The game is multiplat so its not a console wars thing. The game is $60 so its not a price hike thing. About the only explanation I can even think of is that maybe I just tried the demo and actually didn't like it?

A lot of people here have poor social skills. Discussing entertainment isn't a battle to win the only valid opinion. Everyone has their own opinion and you talk to people to share them. The hypersensitivity in here is insane, as usual.

 

[Bruno_Arrais85]

Can't tell if the title change is sarcasm or if he cowered?

both

 

[Madflavor]

Can't tell if the title change is sarcasm or if he cowered?

It's a sarcastic attempt to troll people who disagreed with the video. However it also shows that to an extent, the backlash got to him.

 

[YuLY]

I might be in the minority, but I agree with him. Yes the remake looks much better, but isnt that expected? its been almost 2 decades. The original has much better atmosphere and gothic vibe to it, while the remake is so grounded that it almost takes the fun out of it.

Since I never played Re4 in it's time, I never had a big nostalgia for it, so I would prefer the remake any day. However I do see his point.

 

[Madflavor]

I might be in the minority, but I agree with him. Yes the remake looks much better, but isnt that expected? its been almost 2 decades. The original has much better atmosphere and gothic vibe to it, while the remake is so grounded that it almost takes the fun out of it.

Since I never played Re4 in it's time, I never had a big nostalgia for it, so I would prefer the remake any day. However I do see his point.

That's not the issue. Even people who love the Remake recognize the superior atmosphere in the Original. The issue is the hyperbolic bs with calling the Remake "soulless". Not only that but in his original description of the video he wrote to "come to your own conclusions." Well people did, they just weren't the conclusions he wanted, so he changed the title and description as way to lash out at his critics.

 

[YuLY]

That's not the issue. Even people who love the Remake recognize the superior atmosphere in the Original. The issue is the hyperbolic bs with calling the Remake "soulless". Not only that but in his original description of the video he wrote to "come to your own conclusions." Well people did, they just weren't the conclusions he wanted, so he changed the title and description as way to lash out at his critics.

Yea the soulless thing was weird, could have been worded better. Also lame with the title change.

I was never a fan of remakes and how they change the art and the vibe. My best example is the first level on Eden Prime from Mass Effect vs the one from Legendary Edition. In the original there is a red almost doomed world colored sky that gives so much atmosphere, but in Legendary they made it generic white and ruined it tbh. I still appreciate the better gameplay.

Another example would be the Gears of War remaster, looks almost nothing like the original with it's bleak grey gothic industrial vibe.

 

[Efren is G.O.A.T.]

I think the soundtrack was better in the Original but for the everything else I prefer the Remake.

Original is still a masterpiece too. One doesn't replace nor diminish the other.

 

[Mozzarella]

What is "soul" in a videogame?

Is that like nostalgia?

"Soul" and "Soulless" means i suck at making good arguments and i have to use buzzwords instead.

 

[chilleverest]

I dont know if its the fandom but anyone with the objective perspective should somehow agree that the ambiance, soundtrack, mystique factor and everything that made it great is still superior in the original.

Remake is still a solid effort but it will never top the awe that it was when playing first time.

 

[Tsaki]

Contrarianism at its finest.

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

Since I never played Re4 in it's time, I never had a big nostalgia for it, so I would prefer the remake any day. However I do see his point.

If you prefer the remake, then why see his point? Because clingers-on boosted this chud?

Spending time to see it from Crowbcats point of view requires nostalgia for when he was unimpeachable, and the same nostaglia drives his takes.

Easier to just like what you like in a vacuum of takes.

 

[Hestar69]

I've gone through 4REMAKE like 9 times and it's fun to play but it's no where near as good as the original. These are just cold, hard facts. In fact every remake isn't as good as the original aside from Mikami's remake of the first game. But it is what it is.

demons souls and shadow of the coloussus remakes are better IMO..I'm playing shadow now for the first time really and the game is amazing. I tried to play it as a kid on ps2 and teh frames were sooo baddd

 

[Kindela]

Ahem... "Old game GOOD, new game BAD".

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I'm not going to bother watching it. It seems the consensus is its a shit video.

Well, hand it to internet whores looking for clicks. Even for guys like crowbcat who dont upload tons of videos (he only uploads a handful per year with 59 videos in 9 years according to his YT page), it gets to a point you got to post stuff to keep relevant.

What probably happened is the guy spent a ton of time making the YT video, knew it wasnt that great but had to upload anyway to get some click worth out of it.

What was the text and title he changed??? He edited it?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

This video has become the most downvoted Crowbcat'S video for the channel's history, currently 28k likes v.s 18k dislikes, around 55%/45% ratio.
Most polarized video Crowbcat has produced. Even Gmanlive called out him for lowering remake clips's volume to fake his argument

So Crowbcat purposely messed with the volume to make Remake sound worse in his video?

LOL. What an asshole.

 

[TheDreadBaron]

The video never makes a simple binary good/bad distinction, it just compares footage and lets you draw your own conclusions. As for the audio levels, Crowbcat claims the remake audio was slightly boosted in the footage. I think it has more to do with how the audio is compressed hard in the old game and optimized for small crt tv speakers. The new game most likely has a broader dynamic range which makes ambience quieter and loud noises louder, better suited to a more modern speaker setup. That makes it hard to perfectly compare the two, but that’s also not the only thing being compared. I agree with folks saying the old lighting isn’t great, that’s one conclusion you might draw that’s critical of the old game. If you watched the 40 minute video and all you got out of it was old good / new bad, I feel like that’s on you.

 

[deriks]

Probably his worst video, and the first one where it seems he's nitpicking just for the sake of it.

And according to the initial feedback, that's what most other people think as well.

Atmosphere in the original is way better than the remake

Also, he is just pointing stuff. If you're crying about it, blame Capcom

 

[StreetsofBeige]

The video never makes a simple binary good/bad distinction, it just compares footage and lets you draw your own conclusions. As for the audio levels, Crowbcat claims the remake audio was slightly boosted in the footage. I think it has more to do with how the audio is compressed hard in the old game and optimized for small crt tv speakers. The new game most likely has a broader dynamic range which makes ambience quieter and loud noises louder, better suited to a more modern speaker setup. That makes it hard to perfectly compare the two, but that’s also not the only thing being compared. I agree with folks saying the old lighting isn’t great, that’s one conclusion you might draw that’s critical of the old game. If you watched the 40 minute video and all you got out of it was old good / new bad, I feel like that’s on you.

Well the someone is lying. Either Gmanlive's equal decibel video showing the games have similar loudness and ambient is BS, or crowbcat's low volume remake clips are BS. crowbcat even said in of of those tweets he increased it (as you said). Which means according to crowbcat, any gamer playing remake at a normal DB volume would have almost dead silent audio in those scenes, while Gman says at similar DB levels his video shows pretty equal audio.

 

[Astray]

I'm typically always there for most crowbcat videos, but sounds like he's full of shit in this one.

(Also controversial opinion but I think the OG kinda looks like shit compared to the remake, it's not even about modern vs classic graphics, the color pallette is just completely gruel-like in the original and that really harms it imo)

 

[Inviusx]

I'm.not watching the video, I'll just say this, regardless of what his opinions are...NEW GAME GOOD, OLD GAME GOOD.

 

[TheDreadBaron]

Well the someone is lying. Either Gmanlive's equal decibel video showing the games have similar loudness and ambient is BS, or crowbcat's low volume remake clips are BS. crowbcat even said in of of those tweets he increased it (as you said). Which means according to crowbcat, any gamer playing remake at a normal DB volume would have almost dead silent audio in those scenes, while Gman says at similar DB levels his video shows pretty equal audio.

I don’t know, I think they could both be right. Crowbcat could have recorded on his setup and got those results, while gman got different results, stranger things have happened. I think it’s hard to compare because audio levels are all relative. Audio goes through all sorts of filters before it reaches the speaker or capture system in this case. Perhaps a more fair comparison could be made by equalizing the relative volumes in the video, but that’s also altering it even more.

 

[SlimySnake]

Well the someone is lying. Either Gmanlive's equal decibel video showing the games have similar loudness and ambient is BS, or crowbcat's low volume remake clips are BS. crowbcat even said in of of those tweets he increased it (as you said). Which means according to crowbcat, any gamer playing remake at a normal DB volume would have almost dead silent audio in those scenes, while Gman says at similar DB levels his video shows pretty equal audio.

I play this game on a dolby atmos setup and 3d headphones, and its one of the better 3d audio games ive played. characters like ashley who are almost always behind you come out of the rear speakers. there is a lot of really great ambient noises that help sell the atmosphere. flies buzzing, crickets chirping, leaky pipes, crows and birds filling up the atmosphere. its anything but silent.

Now they are toned down from the original. no doubt about that, but it's not as bad as he made it out to be. it's definitely not soulless.

 

[thismeinteil]

Well the someone is lying. Either Gmanlive's equal decibel video showing the games have similar loudness and ambient is BS, or crowbcat's low volume remake clips are BS. crowbcat even said in of of those tweets he increased it (as you said). Which means according to crowbcat, any gamer playing remake at a normal DB volume would have almost dead silent audio in those scenes, while Gman says at similar DB levels his video shows pretty equal audio.

According to a test on another vid I watched (crowbcat now has the link to the vid in a pinned comment), he got the same results as crowbcat. My guess is gmanlives turned it up. I do find the troll editing of the title and description pretty funny.

 

[Dr. Claus]

According to a test on another vid I watched, he got the same results as crowbcat. My guess is gmanlives turned it up.

I literally played Re4 Remastered and RE4 Remake and RE4 OG Gamecube back to back to back, just to confirm the audio. Its literally the same. GMan is right, crowbcat is a cunt who lowered his audio.

 

[YuLY]

If you prefer the remake, then why see his point?

I prefer the remake especially because of the gameplay. By today's standards , the original is pretty janky and I cant stand not moving while you aim. And even look-wise, overall the remake still is the best ofc, just cause I agree that its a shame that some of the art/atmosphere was lost from the og, doesnt mean I would take the og over the remake. Its not so bad that it ruins it, like Gears of War remastered.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

I always like crowbcat videos because he says how it is, shows what a wreck a game is. But this last one seems so forced, its more of a reimagining than a game thats falling apart. So the video comes off as unecessary, its a quality game. No crazy jank or glitches etc.

 

[Halo2redvsblue]

Disappointed with Him

 

[MasterDerico]

Hype's totally justified imo. I'm on my third run and I can't put it down. The changes they made have given new life to a classic and I've fallen in love with it all over again. I disagree with anyone who feels the need to shit on the original to sing the remake's praises though. It's a masterpiece and it will always be there. If anything the revised elements of the remake allow the original to continue to stand out rather than simply being replaced.

I think the atmosphere is an issue, but the game is good to play!
If u trully liked, enjoy! It's personal!

 

[Futaleufu]

You can objectively say that the Gigante introduction is better in the original

 

[Pejo]

Just got around to watching the video. Based on the posts in this thread I was expecting that he was cherry picking and/or overblowing the problem, but after watching it, I dunno...

The artistry that was on display for the original by and large got replaced with what can only be described as "$5.99 assets". Something you find on an asset marketplace when you search for stuff like "torch" or "gothic window". I particularly didn't like how they took away Leon's personality and replaced it with essentially nothing, with a few "girlboss" bullshit lines thrown in there almost just to prove, "look, we have modern day beliefs! This product is A.O.K. for you to buy and support!"

It's not enough to stop me from eventually buying the remake, but boy there is a lot of charm, detail, worldbuilding, and immersion changes for the worse.

I think people that disagree with this video probably have quite a bit of overlap with people that think that the Demon's Souls remake didn't fuck up the ambiance, atmosphere, and artistry in the name of high resolution textures and super clean IQ.

 

[SRTtoZ]

Didn't he do a similar thing with WatchDogs and GTA?