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[Shmunter]

So we can delete the PS4 version and just keep the 25GB PS5 UE version if you have a PS5 then? I seem to have downloaded both for some reason but that SSD is jam packed already ffs

Yes, delete PS4 version

 

[AgentP]

They definitely didn't bother as they just used the PC version.

This is both the strength and a weakness of Xbox. Shared tools/APIs. Nothing is custom and many target platforms to release on. Makes PC ports easy. Playstation (5) is one platform, one target, so all tricks, optimizations, tools, etc. are targeting one hardware platform.

 

[IntentionalPun]

The XSX version is the same size as PC... they almost certainly aren't taking advantage of compression hardware on XSX.

As carloseduardocd alluded to, it appears to just be a straight port of the PC version... lack of proper compression and all.

(doesn't mean PS5 won't have an advantage here long term, but not this much)

 

[longdi]

Not enabled on PC, yes, but I think it's enabled on Xbox.

dont think so. do you have prove this is enabled on this game?

 

[blastprocessor]

How large is pc version?

 

[kyliethicc]

Is Rainbow Six Siege the same size on XSX and PS5?

I know when they released the PS5 version, the game's file size was reduced compared to PS4 version, and even the PS4 version was made a bit smaller.

 

[MonarchJT]

SFS is software.
DirectStorage is software.
NVME SSD is hardware.
HW decompressor is hardware.

The key parts are the software DirectStorage and SFS that are available on PC.
PC has NVME SDD hardware too.

absolutely not....
sfs is hardware


ps. you could have a software version of a sfs ...they did hw coz is lot faster for this reason

 

[ethomaz]

absolutely not....
sfs is hardware


ps. you could have a software version of a sfs ...they did hw coz is lot faster for this reason

There is no hardware SFS.
It is part of DirextX 12 API so any hardware with DX12 support can use it.

 

[MonarchJT]

There is no hardware SFS.
It is an API.

Again ..absolutely not....it's hardware

in every part ms and engineers talk about sfs they talk about hw

Soc hw innovation.

 

[martino]

There is no hardware SFS.
It is an API.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Guessing XSS is the problem here.

 

[MonarchJT]

he don't know what he is talking about

 

[Neo_game]

This is a big surprise. Install size is an important factor. I do not think many will be getting the add on SSD storage. It is too expensive

 

[ethomaz]

A hardware feature that all GPU that support DX12 has lol
The GPU just need to support DX12 at hardware level... it is not a customized hardware specific for SFS.

PC has it in all DX12 GPUs.

It is a API thing... it is part of DX12... I maybe I need to check my post you quoted again lol

 

[ethomaz]

nVidia GPUs that supports SFS:

Click Supported GPUs.

NVIDIA GeForce: DX12 Ultimate

The newest version of DirectX and new gold standard for the next-generation of games.

www.nvidia.com

 

[Negotiator101]

There is no hardware SFS.
It is part of DirextX 12 API so any hardware with DX12 support can use it.

From twitter James Stannard, Graphics Optimization R&D and Engine Architect @ Microsoft.

One of the most overlooked elements is our new sampler feedback streaming. It allows us to elegantly stream individual texture pages (rather than whole mips) based on GPU texture fetches. Special filtering hardware allows graceful fallback to the resident mip levels.

This fundamentally amplifies our memory size because we don't have to hold texture pages in memory that aren't needed. It also reduces our streaming bandwidth demands by only streaming what we need.

 

[ethomaz]

From twitter James Stannard, Graphics Optimization R&D and Engine Architect @ Microsoft.

One of the most overlooked elements is our new sampler feedback streaming. It allows us to elegantly stream individual texture pages (rather than whole mips) based on GPU texture fetches. Special filtering hardware allows graceful fallback to the resident mip levels.

This fundamentally amplifies our memory size because we don't have to hold texture pages in memory that aren't needed. It also reduces our streaming bandwidth demands by only streaming what we need.

The filtering hardware is indeed custom for Series X.
SFS doesn’t need that custom filtering hardware that doesn’t exists in the supported GPUs in PC.

 

[Negotiator101]

The filtering hardware is indeed custom for Series X.
SFS doesn’t need that custom filtering hardware that doesn’t exists in the supported GPUs in PC.

Also from James Stannard.

No, this isn't part of RDNA2. Xbox Velocity Architecture is all custom to Xbox. We developed a lot of custom tech for Xbox Series X just like Sony did for PS5.

 

[MonarchJT]

A hardware feature that all GPU that support DX12 has lol
The GPU just need to support DX12 at hardware level... it is not a customized hardware specific for SFS.

PC has it in all DX12 GPUs.

It is a API thing... it is part of DX12... I maybe I need to check my post you quoted again lol

sto spreading fud my gosh u hurting my brain ...you can have raytracing hw and software ....the hw one is faster ...you can decompress texture in hw or sf....the hw one is faster...the same apply at sfs method

 

[martino]

The filtering hardware is indeed custom for Series X.
SFS doesn’t need that custom filtering hardware that doesn’t exists in the supported GPUs in PC.

but sfs is still hardware too...being not custom/exclusive for xbox doesn't change that "smart" guy.
again watch it one time in your life plz at least at this point :

 

[AgentP]

Why are you guys arguing about SFS in this thread? I don't see the relevance.

 

[Shane89]

just give me the damn PCI-E expansion slot activation update.

 

[ethomaz]

Also from James Stannard.

No, this isn't part of RDNA2. Xbox Velocity Architecture is all custom to Xbox. We developed a lot of custom tech for Xbox Series X just like Sony did for PS5.

Because RDNA 2 doesn’t have dedicated decompressors.

Velocity Architecture is NVMe SSD (HW), DirectStorage (SW), SFS (SW) and custom decompressors units (HW).

RDNA 2 or better PCs GPUs only has three of them.

 

[ethomaz]

but sfs is still hardware too...being not custom/exclusive for xbox doesn't change that "smart" guy.
again watch it one time in your life plz at least at this point :

When RTX 2000 was launched? Because all these cards supports SFS even so they were launched way before MS talk about SFS.

That is why RTX 2000 have support to DX12 at hardware level... so any feature MS do that uses DX12 hardware support will be supported by these cards.

SFS is not a customized hardware... it is a software feature that uses the DX12 hardware.

Said that DX11 or precious hardware doesn’t support SFS.

 

[MonarchJT]

Because RDNA 2 doesn’t have dedicated decompressors.

Velocity Architecture is NVMe SSD (HW), DirectStorage (SW), SFS (SW) and custom decompressors units (HW).

RDNA 2 or better PCs GPUs only has three of them.

sfs is hw go to Twitter and ask them do this for urself

 

[Thirty7ven]

The only thing that is custom are HW filters (streaming part of SFS), and the only thing they are there for is to prevent clipping at the edges of textures that are arriving late.

The whole thing was another PR stunt to make the leap seem bigger than it is vs existing tech. It’s a MS special.

 

[martino]

When RTX 2000 was launched? Because all these cards supports SFS even so they were launched way before MS talk about SFS.

That is why RTX 2000 have support to DX12 at hardware level... so any feature MS do that uses DX12 hardware support will be supported by these cards.

SFS is not a customized hardware... it is a software feature that uses the DX12 hardware.

Said that DX11 or precious hardware doesn’t support SFS.

because turing has push the hardware to use TSS

NVIDIA Turing Architecture In-Depth | NVIDIA Technical Blog

Fueled by the ongoing growth of the gaming market and its insatiable demand for better 3D graphics, NVIDIA® has evolved the GPU into the world’s leading parallel processing engine for many…

developer.nvidia.com

Turing Texture Space Shading | NVIDIA Technical Blog

Turing GPUs introduce a new shading capability called Texture Space Shading (TSS), where shading values are dynamically computed and stored in a texture as texels in a texture space. Later…

developer.nvidia.com

here it's like most of the other directx 12U features, it's embracing nvidia hardware choice made with turing.

 

[Redlancet]

so another reason to have multis on ps5 in conjuntion with the dual sense support..

 

[MonarchJT]

The only thing that is custom are HW filters (streaming part of SFS), and the only thing they are there for is to prevent clipping at the edges of textures that are arriving late.

The whole thing was another PR stunt to make the leap seem bigger than it is vs existing tech. It’s a MS special.

that they are irrelevant seems to me 1 other nonsense said on a forum by unknown people. but at least you have rightly explained what SFS are to ethomaz

 

[ethomaz]

because turing has push hardware to use TSS

NVIDIA Turing Architecture In-Depth | NVIDIA Technical Blog

Fueled by the ongoing growth of the gaming market and its insatiable demand for better 3D graphics, NVIDIA® has evolved the GPU into the world’s leading parallel processing engine for many…

developer.nvidia.com

Turing Texture Space Shading | NVIDIA Technical Blog

Turing GPUs introduce a new shading capability called Texture Space Shading (TSS), where shading values are dynamically computed and stored in a texture as texels in a texture space. Later…

developer.nvidia.com

here it's like most of the other directx 12U features, it's embracing nvidia hardware choice made with turing.

That can be true... nVidia have it own hardware VRS in RTX 2000 that late got supported by DX12 API.

My point is these are standard feature that DX12 cards supports... they are not custom hardware.

Now the filtering hardware are indeed custom on Series X... in PC GPUs they use a standard filtering.

The only thing that is custom are HW filters (streaming part of SFS), and the only thing they are there for is to prevent clipping at the edges of textures that are arriving late.

The whole thing was another PR stunt to make the leap seem bigger than it is vs existing tech. It’s a MS special.

Exactly.

But people like the "sure ethomaz" gif without having any ideia of what they are talking about... at least use the gif in the right way.

 

[jroc74]

Yup, one of the things I'm more interested in is smaller file sizes for next gen games.

 

[Thirty7ven]

that they are irrelevant seems to me 1 other nonsense said on a forum by unknown people. but at least you have rightly explained what SFS are to ethomaz

It’s not irrelevant. It’s improved on XSX, as textures arriving late won’t be clipping at the edges.

The whole numbers talk is related to SF though.

If you want to fall for the marketing twist go ahead baby. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[MonarchJT]

It’s not irrelevant. It’s improved on XSX, as textures arriving late won’t be clipping at the edges.

The whole numbers talk is related to SF though.

If you want to fall for the marketing twist go ahead baby. Nothing wrong with that.

oh is it normal that hw producers teams tend to exaggerate isn't it? Goossen did with One x ..did with the series x ....Cerny did exactly the same with the ps4 and the ps5
we have at least 2 forums that believe SSDs will take over from gpus soon. Luckily Nvidia continue givin everyone the reality alarm

 

[FatKingBallman]

Velocity Architecture is more about software.
The key part of it is the DirectStorage and SFS available for PC and Xbox... both are API software.

PS. Velocity Architecture requires a NVMe SSD drive to works.

All PS4/PS5 devs have free Oodle licences to use in their games.

BTW PS4 Pro version probably has lower quality assets compared with PS5/SeriesX.

velocity architecture is ...hw decompressors....hw sfs ..nvme ssd + direct access from gpu to the first 100 gb of ssd + direct storage software

I agree.

SFS is software.
DirectStorage is software.
NVME SSD is hardware.
HW decompressor is hardware.

The key parts are the software DirectStorage and SFS that are available on PC.
PC has NVME SDD hardware too.

Ok Xbox One X version? Oh 42gb same as PC and Series X. Series console have very advanced compression features also. Like I said point me to any other game with a big installation difference and I'll concede. We just don't have enough information to go on at the moment.

Does the series x not have hardware decompression? Thought it did. It being basically the exact same size as Xbox one and PC makes it seem they are all a similar version while ps5 is different. Why we don't know but I know your certainty even if you turn out to be right is premature.

The Series X does have hardware decompression. No one denies that, but it is a documented fact that its capabilities are 4x-5x less than the PS5. The PC version does not even come into this equation at all -- because PC games usually have different resolution textures etc.

There is only one question: both XSX and PS5 have near-identical versions. PS5 compiles the same game in 25GB. Xbox compiles the same game in 42 GB. How?

What is the first answer that comes to your mind?

I am not saying I'm right, and everyone else is wrong. I'm just saying that this seems like the most logical explanation. At least, we have some evidence for it (hardware specs + developer quote). We don't have any evidence for scenarios like they just copied the PC code, they forgot to compress the Xbox version, the team ran out of time, etc.

Yup, via Kraken alone it should be 29% smaller than ZLIB, not to mention Oodle Textures.

Kraken Vs ZLIB: 29% Smaller Game Sizes Losslessly, 297% Faster Decompression on PS5

Kraken VS ZLIB: According to the official graph by RAD Game Tools, Kraken has 29% higher compression ratio over ZLIB (used in PS4 and other platforms), and does it 3-5x faster (doesn't really concern us as gamers, only good for devs). Both Kraken and ZLIB are lossless compressions, meaning data...

www.neogaf.com

BCPack.

absolutely not....
sfs is hardware


ps. you could have a software version of a sfs ...they did hw coz is lot faster for this reason

There is no hardware SFS.
It is part of DirextX 12 API so any hardware with DX12 support can use it.

A hardware feature that all GPU that support DX12 has lol
The GPU just need to support DX12 at hardware level... it is not a customized hardware specific for SFS.

PC has it in all DX12 GPUs.

It is a API thing... it is part of DX12... I maybe I need to check my post you quoted again lol

From twitter James Stannard, Graphics Optimization R&D and Engine Architect @ Microsoft.

One of the most overlooked elements is our new sampler feedback streaming. It allows us to elegantly stream individual texture pages (rather than whole mips) based on GPU texture fetches. Special filtering hardware allows graceful fallback to the resident mip levels.

This fundamentally amplifies our memory size because we don't have to hold texture pages in memory that aren't needed. It also reduces our streaming bandwidth demands by only streaming what we need.

That can be true... nVidia have it own hardware VRS in RTX 2000 that late got supported by DX12 API.

My point is these are standard feature that DX12 cards supports... they are not custom hardware.

Now the filtering hardware are indeed custom on Series X... in PC GPUs they use a standard filtering.


Exactly.

But people like the "sure ethomaz" gif without having any ideia of what they are talking about... at least use the gif in the right way.

Dunno is SFS hardware or software solution in Xbox ( although decompression solution in Xbox is partially hardware accelerated unlike in PS5 which is fully ) but Sampler Feedback Streaming doesn't reduce the Filesize on your Disc. It is making the usage of the RAM smarter. A scene doesn't have to store all the texture packs in the RAM, that's why less space is needed and your bandwidth from RAM to the Processors is less filled in comparison without using SFS.

BCPack.

Oodle Texture compression on PS5 has a higher compression ratio than BCPack on XSX. The fact that general purpose Kraken alone allows the PS5 to stream ~9GB/s of decompressed data. With Oodle Texture it goes way above 9.

 

[MonarchJT]

Ok it seem that has nothing to do with oodle and Kraken or bcpack. remedy didn't use smart delivery the ps5 version only the one there. the Xbox version contains both old and new gen. at least that's what they say about beyond3d (which users I particularly trust)

I don't link the other forum because I don't like doing it on potentially rival forums.

ps4 contain ps4 + ps4 pro version
ps5 just that
xbox contain xbox one ,one x, series x

 

[ethomaz]

Ok it seem that has nothing to do with oodle and Kraken or bcpack. remedy didn't use smart delivery the ps5 version only the one there. the Xbox version contains both old and new gen. at least that's what they say about beyond3d (which users I particularly trust)

I don't link the other forum because I don't like doing it on potentially rival forums.

That makes no sense.
On Xbox Series X it should download only the new version... on Xbox One the old version... and not both.

BTW PC has the same size as Xbox version... that means it is only a single version.

Some Beyond3D users are used to made up story.

 

[Godfavor]

It is quite simple really. Remedy does not use hardware decompression on xbox consoles so the game uploaded was already uncompressed and bigger than the ps5 version.

If we take the speculation of the differences on the file size

 

[Heisenberg007]

Ok it seem that has nothing to do with oodle and Kraken or bcpack. remedy didn't use smart delivery the ps5 version only the one there. the Xbox version contains both old and new gen. at least that's what they say about beyond3d (which users I particularly trust)

I don't link the other forum because I don't like doing it on potentially rival forums.

ps4 contain ps4 + ps4 pro version
ps5 just that
xbox contain xbox one ,one x, series x

I'm not sure I fully understand what you're saying. But Xbox Series X version does not contain Xbox One Version + One X version.

Xbox One version is 42.1 Gb. Xbox Series X version is 42.5 GB. The store page has both versions, and it shows the game is 84 Gb (42 + 42). When you download it on either console, it downloads the correct version (One or Series X).

If it were downloading both, the game would be 84 GB, which it is not. Also, that'd mean the Xbox One and Series X versions are just 20 GB each, which is not the case.

 

[Heisenberg007]

It is quite simple really. Remedy does not use hardware decompression on xbox consoles so the game uploaded was already uncompressed and bigger than the ps5 version.

If we take the speculation of the differences on the file size

But it doesn't make sense why they won't compress the game on Xbox. They had enough time to support full DualSense features + Activities + even Game Help and Guides features on the PS5, and just ignored the decompression on Xbox?

And this happens at a time when Remedy and MS and real close, and Remedy is actually working on an exclusive game for MS? This doesn't make sense.

 

[ethomaz]

But it doesn't make sense why they won't compress the game on Xbox. They had enough time to support full DualSense features + Activities + even Game Help and Guides features on the PS5, and just ignored the decompression on Xbox?

And this happens at a time when Remedy and MS and real close, and Remedy is actually working on an exclusive game for MS? This doesn't make sense.

Ohhh they are working in a exclusive Xbox game?

 

[DJ12]

I like ps5 'wins' as much as anyone but this is hardly noteworthy.

It's good for ps5 for sure but doesn't make the series x version any worse.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Ohhh they are working in a exclusive Xbox game?

Crossfire X campaign.

 

[Godfavor]

But it doesn't make sense why they won't compress the game on Xbox. They had enough time to support full DualSense features + Activities + even Game Help and Guides features on the PS5, and just ignored the decompression on Xbox?

And this happens at a time when Remedy and MS and real close, and Remedy is actually working on an exclusive game for MS? This doesn't make sense.

The GDK does not support direct storage I believe. Yet

 

[Knitted Knight]

The tools arrived faster than I thought.

Very nice to see. I think engines getting updated to these new methods of compressing data is going to be a slow trickle however.

 

[ethomaz]

The GDK does not support direct storage I believe. Yet

I believe nobody can use DirectStorage yet... it is planned to reach developers this year.

Edit - At least that is the state of it on PC Windows... maybe there is a version on Series X being used?

 

[Fredrik]

This is weird. And the storage is the number one biggest problem with the new consoles. Took me a few hours to fill up my internal drive on XSX and MS hasn’t even launched any new 1st party games yet.

 

[AgentP]

That makes no sense.
On Xbox Series X it should download only the new version... on Xbox One the old version... and not both.

BTW PC has the same size as Xbox version... that means it is only a single version.

Some Beyond3D users are used to made up story.

Ya, Allandor is making shit up. He acts like every target platform has a full package of data/assets, which is laughable. The PC version is 50GB, that's all you need to know about the size. It seems the PS5 version was just using some extra compression. Occam's Razor.

 

[Redlancet]

I like ps5 'wins' as much as anyone but this is hardly noteworthy.

It's good for ps5 for sure but doesn't make the series x version any worse.

it makes x version 25 gb worse

 

[Superayate]

Direct Storage is a part of the DX12u API. Both PCs and Xbox have access to that.

Not sure it is actually used/activated

 

[Raonak]

Control is linear game. It is not huge.

It's 42gb on other platforms. That's pretty much inline with most AAA games. Linearity doesn't really make much of a difference. TLOU2 is linear and it's gigantic.

Compressing down 42gb to 25gb is damn impressive regardless of the content of the game.