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Confirmation that the Vikings traveled to the US 1000 years ago. (Solar Storm recorded in wood samples)

Tschumi

Member

Long before Columbus crossed the Atlantic, eight timber-framed buildings covered in sod stood on a terrace above a peat bog and stream at the northern tip of Canada’s island of Newfoundland, evidence that the Vikings had reached the New World first.

But precisely when the Vikings journeyed to establish the L’Anse aux Meadows settlement had remained unclear – until now.

A new type of dating technique using a long-ago solar storm as a reference point has revealed that the settlement was occupied in AD1021, exactly a millennium ago and 471 years before the first voyage of Columbus. The technique was used on three pieces of wood cut for the settlement, all pointing to the same year.

So, is seems at though the Vinland and Leif Erikson saga turns out to have been true ...

Pretty cool to confirm something treated as a fun possibility in the books of my youth.

(Ps. The guardian has a pop up asking you to donate but you can close it without interacting with it)
 
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killatopak

Member
You’re telling me Assassin’s Creed is real?

Keanu Reeves Reaction GIF
 

IDKFA

I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Too bad they failed to expand, we would have so many blondes.

That's what's interesting to me. Why didn't they stay? Were they forced out by the native Americans? Was it too far to establish a colony? Probably a bit of both.
 

Lanrutcon

Member
That's what's interesting to me. Why didn't they stay? Were they forced out by the native Americans? Was it too far to establish a colony? Probably a bit of both.

Actually, they helped the natives fend off the Mayan blood worshippers who were under the influence of one of their old gods, then they took an artifact from the struggle across the ocean...but never made it back to their home.

Yeah, I played the Secret World.
 
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MastaKiiLA

Member
Didn't the Polynesians also land in America a long-ass time ago? I mean, the whole thing is dumb. When you travel to a land where people already live, it means you didn't discover shit, other than you discovered that other people discovered this place long before you. I can't fly to Australia and claim I discovered it, just because it's the first time I've been there.
 

Lanrutcon

Member
Didn't the Polynesians also land in America a long-ass time ago? I mean, the whole thing is dumb. When you travel to a land where people already live, it means you didn't discover shit, other than you discovered that other people discovered this place long before you. I can't fly to Australia and claim I discovered it, just because it's the first time I've been there.

Historically "discovering" land really just meant "a European found something that wasn't on a European map before". Usually the act was followed by colonial claiming, which was then followed by the...um...transfer of people, plants, animals and diseases.
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
"Discovery" is a term that requires a set POV. If you find an island in the middle of the pacific with dinosaurs and a giant ape that no one knew about before, is it not a discovery if a few savages are already there scraping out a living sacrificing girls to the ape?
 

Tschumi

Member
That's what's interesting to me. Why didn't they stay? Were they forced out by the native Americans? Was it too far to establish a colony? Probably a bit of both.
Considering what happened to Jamestown i think it might have been a bit hard for them to get a foothold; disease, natives and wild animals, unfamiliar foods, the early colonies that worked kept getting fresh peeps pumped into them by bigger ships, i think

i think there were records from jamestown where they complained about all the inedible lobsters in the ocean near them lol
 
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Pejo

Member
you're not wrong, but those boats were centuries ahead of their time
I didn't mean primitive from a "then" perspective, I meant from a now perspective. At the time, I agree, they were brilliantly designed. Sorry for the confusion.
 

Kimahri

Banned
yea? Can you imagine traveling across an ocean in one of these?

Moragsoorm.jpg


It's absolutely amazing.
It is amazing, i agree there, but vikings were amazing seafarers, and their boats were world class outshining most competition at their time. They were built for long voyages, so them reaching america isn't really sirprising.
 

Tschumi

Member
I didn't mean primitive from a "then" perspective, I meant from a now perspective. At the time, I agree, they were brilliantly designed. Sorry for the confusion.
hehe no worries

^^^^^ looks like a few people got confused haha
 

daveonezero

Banned
I think a lot is sea dating people made it to the continent via boat rather than land bridge. And long before it’s generally accepted.

you are telling me the Polynesians just happen to stop in Hawaii?

there were maps of north and South America long before the Europeans found it.
 

Winter John

Gold Member
After spending a fair amount of time drinking with them I've long suspected the local Cheyenne are actually descended from the Irish. This news about the ABBAS canoeing over here proves my suspicions might be right after all.
 

MastaKiiLA

Member
A lot of human history is wrong and academia don't want any of those threads pulled as it will all come apart and ruin their lives work.
That's a really silly claim to make. Which anthropologist/archaeologist wouldn't want to be the one who disproved the Columbus story? The problem isn't that people want to hide the truth, it's that the truth is murky as hell, as it relies on discovery of artifacts that can easily be dated, or better yet, finding written records of these events. Without that, it's a lot of conjecture and inference. There's a reason people have been talking about the Vikings predating Columbus, because it's something people have been researching for decades. However, if you want to disprove commonly-accepted facts, you need to bring strong evidence to the contrary. I believe that evidence is what is behind this new story. They've found some information that bolsters the claim.
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
no what is silly is to say there is no evidence of a relatively advanced civilization, perhaps global civilization, that existed somewhere between 10-20000 years ago.
I agree with you, but I think folks get hung up on the concept of "advanced". I don't think there were folks cruising around on internal combustion engines, some sort of battery powered vehicle, etc. But I do think there was more than just hunter gatherer tribes with didn't have a written language, networks of cooperative trade, and the capability to build and maintain permanent settlement (Gobeckli-tepi alone supports this). Were they trans-oceanic? Perhaps. If you can get to Australia 50K (I think) years ago there isn't really a technological reason why you couldn't get to the americas I don't think.

Unfortunately I don't think we will ever know. All that shit is probably hundreds of feet underwater since tectonic plate shifting, glacial ice melt, etc have raised ocean levels significantly since that time and all the settlements were probably on the water back then.
 

daveonezero

Banned
I agree with you, but I think folks get hung up on the concept of "advanced". I don't think there were folks cruising around on internal combustion engines, some sort of battery powered vehicle, etc. But I do think there was more than just hunter gatherer tribes with didn't have a written language, networks of cooperative trade, and the capability to build and maintain permanent settlement (Gobeckli-tepi alone supports this). Were they trans-oceanic? Perhaps. If you can get to Australia 50K (I think) years ago there isn't really a technological reason why you couldn't get to the americas I don't think.

Unfortunately I don't think we will ever know. All that shit is probably hundreds of feet underwater since tectonic plate shifting, glacial ice melt, etc have raised ocean levels significantly since that time and all the settlements were probably on the water back then.
Hunter Gatherers we’re not retarded.

as for rechnological level it is up for debate.

I don’t think they had machines like we do but like stone carvers or wood workers some thing have degraded and in this respects (boat building, stone work Etc) they may have been more advanced than we can imagine. And surpass our capabilities in this areas.
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
Hunter Gatherers were not retarded.

as for rechnological level it is up for debate.

I don’t think they had machines like we do but like stone carvers or wood workers some thing have degraded and in this respects (boat building, stone work Etc) they may have been more advanced than we can imagine. And surpass our capabilities in this areas.
Who said they were? We already know though wall paintings and recovered artifacts that earlier groups 20-30K years ago had culture and ceremony. But since they didn't draw planes, skyscrapers, or tanks on cave walls one can presume that those things didn't exist back then, at least in those areas.

But were there some groups that transitioned from hunter-gatherer to permanent settlement with agriculture, construction, and complex navigation allowing for deliberate oceanic travel? I think so.

I do NOT think they had tech better than what we have today. Ain't no super concrete or wonder steel back then. I doubt they had medicines more effective than what we have today but once you got out of childhood their lifestyle related health may have been better than ours, barring famine/plague. And they may have had a flourishing artistic culture with art, music, poetry, written or oral storytelling, and mythology as rich or richer than ours.
 

nush

Member
Hunter gatherers definetly weren't lifting impossibly large blocks of stone. Many of the newer tribes/groups simply moved into advanced abandoned buildings they found. Then those buildings were dated by the artefacts the resettlers left behind. That's one theory.
 

Great Hair

Banned
yea? Can you imagine traveling across an ocean in one of these?

Moragsoorm.jpg


It's absolutely amazing.

It took them about (apparently) 9 days to reach England (550 nmiles). The distance between Skandinavian to America is about (Oslo to New York) : 3202 nautical miles, roughly 6 times (3202 in total, in a straight line) or 54 days + 25% for eventuallities, breaks at iceland, england etc. = so, at least 54 days, potentially more (due bad weather, bad mood, no wind, no netflix, terrible wifi reception, no waifus pillows etc.)

Add "shit bucket", some sleeping area and all the weapons, armors, clothing and some "bottom wipes" + lots of water .. ; I don´t see this ship doing more than 5knot/h (5.75mph). With a crew of just 20 the trip would be useless. According to quroa experts, they had 100+ men warships pushing 15knots.
 

Xenon

Member
Historically "discovering" land really just meant "a European found something that wasn't on a European map before". Usually the act was followed by colonial claiming, which was then followed by the...um...transfer of people, plants, animals and diseases.

I'm sure other cultures discovered new lands but usually meant that there were no survivors to write about.
 
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Tschumi

Member
Wall of text here, as it's Saturday morning, I'm in bed, and I'm mildly triggered because as usual forum theories trade in scope and realty for convenient bling... :lollipop_poop:

Geologists and archaeologists have been obsessively combing the planet for centuries.

mel brooks we aint found shit GIF


They would love to find Atlantis or some other proto civilization. The reasons we can't find much evidence for earlier civilizations are various, for instance that they didn't use stone to the same extent, or the lands they once populated are now flooded or covered in sand dunes. If there was some unknown, glorious, conveniently omnipresent proto civilization out there, they would have left something in a place that was relatively isolated from natural concealment for us to find. No such evidence has yet been found, to the extent that it would suggest a rome-before-rome, or anything of that weight.

It's also goofy to just say "brah, they be sailing all over the place, they must have been more advanced than we think."

There's a logical fallacy, or two, i forget the names, wherein you look at something improbable and think it's amazing - without considering the failed attempts, the amount of time it took to arrive at that end, or recognising the true nature of the event. It's like saying "can you believe that license plate said 5663-8632? Amazing!", or looking at a virus that just mutated to infect humans after billions of generations that failed to mutate that way and thinking it's a nefarious, deliberate, conscious act. Nah, guys, it's dumb luck.

Keep in mind: the oldest knowable civilization - more than just fossil evidence - as it stands now is, like 3000 or so years old (Sumeria). Evidence exists that aborigines, for one, have existed on Australia for 60,000 years. Do we need a calculator to appreciate how fucking long humans had to populate this earth as widely as they did? It wasn't a few hundred years, of even a few thousand. It was tens of thousands of years. How far could you drag your ass in the 300,000 years since the oldest yet-found modern human bones were found? You've heard of Jebel Irhoud, Morocco? A 300,000+ year old settlement of modern humans.

Note: it's a common trait of people trying to peddle BS that they apply their own tendency towards convenient generalisation to the scientific consensus they're attacking - just because you think you know what happened 10,000 years ago, doesn't mean scientists think they know, they're just making educated guesses based on evidence they've so far uncovered.

The tentative consensus at the moment seems to be that the first people to move to the Americas in colonizing populations probably did so by foot over a landbridge around the Aleutian islands as they are today, during a more recent ice age, then slowly filtered down. "Nah man them seas too rough and cold" you say? The climate was different then, the sea levels were different, a lot of ocean water was still locked up in ice sheets, and who's to say these ancient humans couldn't problem solve anyway?

(Is anybody saying "oh land bridges sure are convenient"? Shit no. The development of the theory of continental drift ended an age of rampant land bridge speculation, we're past that)

The population of the pacific islands happened later, starting with southern islands like Fiji and Tonga, reached with the assistance of trade winds and probably accident. Such journeys were assisted by the development of "a twin hulled canoe, (..) extremely efficient for ocean travel" to paraphrase the above article. They weren't gifted fucking motorboats or galleys by some international advanced civilization.

I can hardly imagine how many unknowable souls perished after being swept out to sea by typhoons or likewise, only to fail to land on an island. At least they would probably have had coconuts to eat when they got there, as the coconut tree drops its nuts into the ocean specifically so that they might float to a new island somewhere.

These happened thousands of years before those Vikings came to America, which my op says happened more or less around the time of William the Conqueror!!!

Here's the thing about coming on a forum and presenting some alternate history theory, taken from some homebody's YouTube channel, and wording it as if it is the true truth that only a select group of couch warriors know: you just come off as wanting to have an in, to know something we don't know, so hard that your mental bs scanner has been tuned down or totally deactivated to serve your ego.

The lopsided historical record my man nush nush pointed out is a real thing. Generally the spread of what has become contemporary understanding has reflected the spread of Europeans. Generally Europeans have written the history books and printed them, and since colonization spread their languages around the world, generally their histories are accepted around the world as reality. It's bullshit and it's not realistic, but it's what's happened. It's slowly changing now. The content of these euro-centric histories doesn't touch on things like the population of the pacific islands, these are matters of the deep past that nobody in Rome or Athens, or anything similar, knew about. The Vikings were the first Europeans we now have confirmed evidence of reaching the Americas. That doesn't imply shit about the actual colonization of the continents, though.

Considering Atlantic trade winds I'd be pretty shocked if a few hundred or thousand Europeans got marooned on the continents before then, but we don't know.

Mel Brooks Desert GIF
 
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nush

Member
They would love to find Atlantis

Most likely found, the big white column Greek style buildings sinking on an island into the sea are pop culture iconography.



No such evidence has yet been found, to the extent that it would suggest a rome-before-rome, or anything of that weight.



Ancient Nuclear reactor?



And a side of Graham Hancock for desert.


If they can't explain things that don't fit into into official cannon, hidden ignored and discredit the claimant. Enjoy your Saturday morning going down the rabbit hole, remember these are not facts but theory based on observable evidence.
 

Tschumi

Member
Most likely found, the big white column Greek style buildings sinking on an island into the sea are pop culture iconography.







Ancient Nuclear reactor?



And a side of Graham Hancock for desert.


If they can't explain things that don't fit into into official cannon, hidden ignored and discredit the claimant. Enjoy your Saturday morning going down the rabbit hole, remember these are not facts but theory based on observable evidence.

0.0

A big-ass column?

A homebrew historian?

2 billion year old nuclear reactor?

>shuffle away< see u on different subject material bro jah bless

EDIT: I feel I should say that if any of that evidence was strong enough to change the consensus, we would know about it, and I'd accept it happily. As it stands I don't think yank tourists sketchily interpreting the musings of a greek who never went to the place he was writing about or claiming there are 'cut marks!!' on a monolith are gonna convince me of anything.
 
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AJUMP23

Gold Member
yea? Can you imagine traveling across an ocean in one of these?

Moragsoorm.jpg


It's absolutely amazing.
Atlantic would be super easy the Pacific that is a whole crazy thing. Of course Akom tiki did the pacific in a raft.
 
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Superkewl

Gold Member
I thought this was known for decades? They carbon dated that wood back in the 90's and knew it predated Columbus by like 5 centuries but 'Merica didn't want to believe it because of their obsession with Columbus
 

nush

Member
I thought this was known for decades? They carbon dated that wood back in the 90's and knew it predated Columbus by like 5 centuries but 'Merica didn't want to believe it because of their obsession with Columbus

"They" don't want to discredit their canon.

Meanwhile.. not in America.

 

Tschumi

Member
I thought this was known for decades? They carbon dated that wood back in the 90's and knew it predated Columbus by like 5 centuries but 'Merica didn't want to believe it because of their obsession with Columbus
said it before here but i'll say it again... obviously whatever carbon dating they managed in the 90s wasn't enough to provide a consensus... Hence this being news. I mean, isn't that implied by the existence of this thread?
 

ntropy

Member
said it before here but i'll say it again... obviously whatever carbon dating they managed in the 90s wasn't enough to provide a consensus... Hence this being news. I mean, isn't that implied by the existence of this thread?
consensus means nothing. it has zero scientific value
 
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