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Comparing modern 2D and 3D Sonic critically with Metacritic.

MvCSpiderman

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There's polarizing opinions on modern 2D and 3D Sonic. But I believe you can have real discussions by having something more objective included in the conversation.

Below you will find the consensual game reviewer averages of modern 2D and 3D Sonic games on MC.

3D games

Sonic Adventure 2 - 89%
Sonic Adventure (GC)- 57%
Sonic Adventure 2 (GC)- 73%
Sonic Adventure (XBL)- 48%
Sonic Adventure 2 (XBL)- 60%
Sonic Heroes - 72%
Shadow the Hedgehog - 45%
Sonic the Hedgehog - 46%
Sonic Unleashed - 60%
Sonic Colors - 78%
Sonic Generations - 77%
Sonic Lost World - 63%
Sonic Boom - 32%
Sonic Forces - 57%
Storybook Sonic and the Secret Rings - 69%
Storybook Sonic and the Black Knight - 54%

2D games

Sonic Advance - 87%
Sonic Advance 2 - 83%
Sonic Advance 3 - 79%
Sonic Rush - 82%
Sonic Rush Adventure - 78%
Sonic Rivals - 64%
Sonic Rivals 2 - 60%
Sonic 4 part 1 - 72%
Sonic 4 part 2 - 61%
Sonic Colors 2D - 79%
Sonic Boom Shattered Crystal - 47%
Sonic Boom Fire and Ice - 62%
Sonic Mania - 86% (87% plus)

In the end they don't seem too dissimilar from each other. I think one could conclude that both 2D and 3D Sonic reflect on the franchises quality equally. Whether that's good or bad thing is up to the observer.
 
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nkarafo

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And why are the classic Genesis era 2D games or Sonic Mania excluded?

There are no polarizing opinions about "modern 2D" Sonic games VS 3D ones. The argument was always about the Genesis era 2D Sonic games being better than the modern Sonic games, 2D ones included. Or that modern Sonic games suck.
 

mcjmetroid

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Why only modern 2D sonic? If you included the older ones and sonic Mania it demolishes the 3D list.

I also wouldn't count sonic rivals. Theyre racing games not platformers to my knowledge.
 

MvCSpiderman

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And why are the classic Genesis era 2D games or Sonic Mania excluded?

There are no polarizing opinions about "modern 2D" Sonic games VS 3D ones. The argument was always about the Genesis era 2D Sonic games being better than the modern Sonic games, 2D ones included. Or that modern Sonic games suck.
You can find years of threads on your favorite gaming site comparing modern 2D Sonic to 3D.
 

MvCSpiderman

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Why only modern 2D sonic? If you included the older ones and sonic Mania it demolishes the 3D list.

I also wouldn't count sonic rivals. Theyre racing games not platformers to my knowledge.
Yeah race and platforming. Also why bring that up but not touch storybook?

Modern 2D should be compared to modern 3D to see if they stand compared to the genesis games. If Genesis is required for 2D to be good then that means modern 2D Sonic is bad.

From MC it shows the gap isn't that wide Imo.
 

mcjmetroid

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You can find years of threads on your favorite gaming site comparing modern 2D Sonic to 3D.
No it's more: old sonic Vs new sonic.

Old sonic games tended to be 2D so it became 2D Vs 3D.

Being honest even the later 2D sonic games didn't hold a candle to the original 3.
The advance games and rush were quite good though.
 
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mcjmetroid

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Yeah race and platforming. Also why bring that up but not touch storybook?

Modern 2D should be compared to modern 3D to see if they stand compared to the genesis games. If Genesis is required for 2D to be good then that means modern 2D Sonic is bad.

From MC it shows the gap isn't that wide Imo.
I'm really not understanding this at all..
 
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nkarafo

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In the end they don't seem too dissimilar from each other. I think one could conclude that both 2D and 3D Sonic reflect on the franchises quality equally. Whether that's good or bad thing is up to the observer.
First you specifically mention "modern 2D Sonic games" and then in your conclusion it's just "2D games". Your conclusion being that "2D and 3D Sonic reflect on the franchises quality equally". Which is not the case since the original Genesis trilogy and Sonic Mania (which is a modern 2D Sonic game but you still excluded it for some reason) represent the best of Sonic has ever been.
 
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MvCSpiderman

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First you specifically mention "modern 2D Sonic games" and then in your conclusion it's just "2D games". Your conclusion being that "2D and 3D Sonic reflect on the franchises quality equally". Which is not the case since the original Genesis trilogy and Sonic Mania (which is a modern 2D Sonic game but you still excluded it for some reason) represent the best of Sonic has ever been.
No. The thread clearly says modern 2D Sonic, you're confusing yourself. The comparison is just against 3D Sonic.

Considering how people would often bring up Rush as a way to bash 3D Sonic, by looking at scores, they really aren't that different.
 

yurinka

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There's polarizing opinions on modern 2D and 3D Sonic. But I believe you can have real discussions by having something more objective included in the conversation.

Below you will find the consensual game reviewer averages of modern 2D and 3D Sonic games on MC.

3D games

Sonic Adventure 2 - 89%
Sonic Adventure (GC)- 57%
Sonic Adventure 2 (GC)- 73%
Sonic Adventure (XBL)- 48%
Sonic Adventure 2 (XBL)- 60%
Sonic Heroes - 72%
Shadow the Hedgehog - 45%
Sonic the Hedgehog - 46%
Sonic Unleashed - 60%
Sonic Colors - 78%
Sonic Generations - 77%
Sonic Lost World - 63%
Sonic Boom - 32%
Sonic Forces - 57%
Storybook Sonic and the Secret Rings - 69%
Storybook Sonic and the Black Knight - 54%

2D games

Sonic Advance - 87%
Sonic Advance 2 - 83%
Sonic Advance 3 - 79%
Sonic Rush - 82%
Sonic Rush Adventure - 78%
Sonic Rivals - 64%
Sonic Rivals 2 - 60%
Sonic 4 part 1 - 72%
Sonic 4 part 2 - 61%
Sonic Colors 2D - 79%
Sonic Boom Shattered Crystal - 47%
Sonic Boom Fire and Ice - 62%

In the end they don't seem too dissimilar from each other. I think one could conclude that both 2D and 3D Sonic reflect on the franchises quality equally. Whether that's good or bad thing is up to the observer.
You missed the best Sonic game since the Mega Drive:
Sonic Mania Plus (91% in Switch, 87% in PS4, 89% in XBO)
Sonic Mania (86% in Switch, 86% in PS4, 83% in XBO)

They must make Sonic Mania 2 and follow this path instead of releasing more mediocre, unspired or bad modern 3D and 2D Sonic games.
 

MvCSpiderman

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I'm really not understanding this at all..
Because your original point was nonsense. People were comparing modern 2D sonic games like rush to downplay 3D Sonic for years. What you're basically saying is that adding the Genesis games demolishes the 3D list, so one could look at that statement and assume you think modern 2D Sonic can't stand on its own.

This thread is only about modern 2D vs. 3D Sonic in MC. Personally, I don't see much of a difference despite all the fans claiming modern 2D is better.
 
J

JeremyEtcetera

Unconfirmed Member
M MvCSpiderman just include Mania so that the 2d-fans stop complaining in your thread. It technically counts(even though it doesn't change the average much).
 

MvCSpiderman

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Mar 22, 2017
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You missed the best Sonic game since the Mega Drive:
Sonic Mania Plus (91% in Switch, 87% in PS4, 89% in XBO)
Sonic Mania (86% in Switch, 86% in PS4, 83% in XBO)

They must make Sonic Mania 2 and follow this path instead of releasing more mediocre, unspired or bad modern 3D and 2D Sonic games.
The path of rereleasing and rehashing classic Sonic genesis levels? Mania was for lasped fans, there's not much room for further growth now that the honeymoon period is over. Another Mania wouldn't have the same pull.
 

nkarafo

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People were comparing modern 2D sonic games like rush to downplay 3D Sonic for years
First time i ever hear this. All this time i thought people compared the Genesis games to the new ones.

Is it a Sonic fanbase thing i missed?
 

MvCSpiderman

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Mar 22, 2017
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First time i ever hear this. All this time i thought people compared the Genesis games to the new ones.

Is it a Sonic fanbase thing i missed?
It's always been a thing. It just dropped off post PSP/DS when portable output dropped and most of the portable releases that came out held no one's interest. Sonic 4 being a console game helped to.

Shadow onward people were constantly comparing the advance games and rush to 3D Sonic.
 
J

JeremyEtcetera

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There's not much room for further growth now that the honeymoon period is over. Another Mania wouldn't have the same pull.
 
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Spukc

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What in the fuck is this 2D list?

OP should be ejected into space
 
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cireza

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Great demonstration that there is nothing to make of the professional press for this series. They are people that have been used to trash the series and made this a sport. People that aren't able to make an opinion for themselves have been repeating the nonsense from the professional press for two decades, while certainly never touching the games.

Meanwhile, people who buy the games enjoy them, and the games sell quite a lot anyway, which further proves how much the press is out of touch with this series, and how much Sega and the Sonic Team are right to not give a fuck about this small minority of vocal people on the internet.
 
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MvCSpiderman

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Great demonstration that there is nothing to make of the professional press for this series. They are people that have been used to trash the series and made this a sport. People that aren't able to make an opinion for themselves have been repeating the nonsense from the professional press for two decades, while certainly never touching the games.

Meanwhile, people who buy the games enjoy them, and the games sell quite a lot anyway, which further proves how much the press is out of touch with this series, and how much Sega and the Sonic Team are right to not give a fuck about this small minority of vocal people on the internet.
The games don't sell a lot. Unleashed was the best selling Sonic game the last 13 years. Next to colors. Almost every other Sonic struggled to sell 1 million during there run. Steam saved a couple of them just enough "lost world and Generations). It took forever for Forces to outsell Boom and that's if the estimates are true it outsold it and that game sold 600k combined with the first 3DS game. Forces was also given away like two times.
 

cireza

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Almost every other Sonic struggled to sell 1 million during there run.
Source ?

Steam saved a couple of them just enough "lost world and Generations)
Do you really believe PC saved anything ? Come on :messenger_grinning_sweat: PC was an afterthought, as often, and is a nice bonus to get some more sales, but it certainly isn't the main vector of sales. Nintendo consoles are. Mobile as well.

How many games/series that failed to sell 1 millions were discontinued ? Yet people would like us to believe that all Sonic games have been selling like shit for more than 10 years.
Let's get real for a second. The official numbers for the franchise as a whole are out there, from SEGA themselves, and there is no sign that Sonic games have been making poor sales.
 
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MvCSpiderman

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Source ?


Do you really believe PC saved anything ? Come on :messenger_grinning_sweat: PC was an afterthought, as often, and is a nice bonus to get some more sales, but it certainly isn't the main vector of sales. Nintendo consoles are. Mobile as well.

How many games/series that failed to sell 1 millions were discontinued ? Yet people would like us to believe that all Sonic games have been selling like shit for more than 10 years.
Let's get real for a second. The official numbers for the franchise as a whole are out there, from SEGA themselves, and there is no sign that Sonic games have been making poor sales.
All the Sonic sales are readily available. Pc literally did save a lost World from selling under 1 million copies.

Forces is the only main game we don't have clear official numbers for. Every other main line game has public figures.

Main line Sonic has had poor sales for awhile. The last game to move over 3 million copies was 18 years ago with Sonic Heroes. Everyone knows this.

There's a reason output has been low since 2011. Despite the last several games clearly being on budget.

Sonic spin-offs sell more than the main games often.
 

MvCSpiderman

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Sonic Heroes - 3 mill
Shadow - 2 mill
Sonic 2006 - <1 mill
Sonic Unleashed - 2.45 mill
Sonic Colors - 2.18 mill
Sonic Generations - 1.85 mill
Sonic Lost World - 710,000 (Wii U+3DS combined)
Sonic Boom - 620,000 (Wii U+3DS combined)
Sonic Mania - 1 mill
Sonic Forces - ????? (Quick price drops, Given away free on PSN)


I mean for a franchise that's constantly said to be selling with the big boys it really hasn't. There's also a very clear drop off Sega has yet to address or rectify. These aren't what you want for a flagship ip that doubles as a companies mascot.

Perhaps this open-world Sonic Rangers game will resuscitate the franchise?
 

cireza

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All the Sonic sales are readily available.
Source ?

Sonic Forces sales numbers ?
Team Sonic Racing sales numbers ?
Why ignore the racing games ? They are part of the franchise.

1.85 for Sonic Generations was 6 months after release. Do you really believe that nobody bought the game afterwards ? The game was even cited as a long seller in the latest SEGA Fiscal Year Results.
 
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MvCSpiderman

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1.85 for Sonic Generations was 6 months after release. Do you really believe that nobody bought the game afterwards ? The game was even cited as a long seller in the latest SEGA Fiscal Year Results.
Yes, because Sonic games die hard when they die with miniscule legs and Sega usually likes to amputate them for added salt.

Colors sold 1.85 million by Feb 2011, 2.16 or something like that by may. Considering the rapid death of the Wii I doubt it sold much more.

Sega has had Sonic games on steam for years an there's not a large crowd playing them on there.

Unleashed was closest to 3 million and may have made it if Sega didn't get rid of all bad rated MC games off shelves to help brand quality.

If generations hit any new milestone Sega would have said so. This is why Forces has been silent for so long without any clarity on it's performance outside active users due to the psn giveaway.

We even got Boom numbers so it's telling
 

AzafuseYugi

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And why are the classic Genesis era 2D games or Sonic Mania excluded?

There are no polarizing opinions about "modern 2D" Sonic games VS 3D ones. The argument was always about the Genesis era 2D Sonic games being better than the modern Sonic games, 2D ones included. Or that modern Sonic games suck.
Mania was included, Metacritic didn't exist when the genesis games first came out, also the newer mobile ports have many changes and improvements, such as adding Sonic 3 & Knuckles style save files into Sonic 1, CD & 2. or an entirely new secret stage to Sonic 2.
 
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