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Comics Are Dead, Long Live Manga!

oagboghi2

Member
Sometimes I don't reply to oogie boogie because he seems to have trouble reading threads and understanding context.

I can mention the books I most recommend but you'll see with DC I haven't read too much. I stopped buying singles for Marvel at the end of 2015 after Secret Wars and stopped buying DC books in 2016 at the Rebirth event, bought a few Batman books though. I was just spending way too much money on singles and my backlog was building to unmanageable levels. I honestly feel this happens to almost everyone that buys singles at some point. Easier on the money to trade wait if you ask me.
“Ooogie Boogie”. Pathetic even for you.

Only how deep his blind consumerism goes.
This thread has devolved into sol trying to convince himself that bad comics don’t exist. 😂
 

oagboghi2

Member
thread is judging the whole industry. not just a specific bunch of books. Sol and I actually agree if you just say there is plenty of $#!t. but there are also good things out there,
Right, based off of sales data, which we’ve already clearly shown Sol knows nothing about. After failing to defend the industry falling sales, we have to hear about his comic book collection?

Okay
if you help the things you like find success you may get more of them.
Straight up denial
schitts creek good luck GIF by CBC
 

sol_bad

Member
Amiga Amiga

Image Comics.

Black Science - Written by Rick Remender and drawn by Matteo Scalera, quite frankly one of the best teams I've seen in comicdom. The basic premise is about Grant Mackay creating a device that opens the doorway to other realities. He, 5 of his co-workers and his 2 children are taken to a new reality and the device is sabotaged so they have no way home. The device randomly teleports them to new realities, sometimes they are in a reality for 5 minutes, sometimes for days or weeks. So it is about them trying to get back home to their reality.



Deadly Class - Also written by Rick Remender, drawn by Wes Craig and coloured by Lee Loughridge, I'm mentioning the colourist as he adds a real unique identity to the series. The story revolves around Marcus Lopez who is an orphan living on the streets, set in the 1980's. He ends up being enrolled into a school of assassins so it's about him, his life, his past, why he is an orphan and him getting to know his classmates, learning about love and dealing with the struggles within the school.



Decender - Writen by Jeff Lemire and drawn by Dustin Nguyen. Sci-fi setting in the far future where the universe basically hates robots and destroys almost all of them. Enter TIM-21, one of the last remaining robots who is wanted by the United Galactic Council. You'll need to read the book to find out why robots are hated. It has a sequel series called Ascender which I haven't read yet, it's final issue comes out within the net month or two.



East of West -Written by Jonathan Hickman, another God tier writer and drawn by Nick Dragotta. Another perfect paring in bring this future dystopian alternate reality world to life. A world where the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are real and instead of USA having 52 states it has 7 nations of America who all agreed to a truce due to a comet hitting Earth. Will the Horsemen accomplish their prophecies or is there more at play here?


Kill or be Killed - Written by Ed Brubaker and drawn by Sean Phillips, this duo has actually done a lot of books together including Criminal, Fatale and The Fade Out. This book explores vigilantism and is about Dylan who is saved from suicide by a demon, the demon tells him that if he wants to continue living he needs to provide a soul at least once a month. This requires him to murder someone so he goes about his duty trying to work out who is deserving of dying.


Lazerus - Writen by Greg Rucka and Michael Lark. This book is unfortunately not completed 100% but it's really good. There are 28 standard issues, then there are 6 X+66 issues that focus on supporting characters, and finally there are the Lazerus Risen issues which is up to #6, I personally haven't caught up on the Risen issues yet. It's another dystopian future of soughts where there world is controlled by families instead of governments. Each government has a Lazerus which is like a protector of the family, some of them have cybernetic enhancements, some have enhanced abilities, some aren't enhanced at all. The narrative focuses on Forever Carlyle and her family secret.




Saga - Written by Brian K Vaugn and drawn by Fiona Staples, easily one of my favourite comics. I must warn you that this story is still not finished and has a cliffhanger that will drive you insane. The last issue released in February 2018 and it's unknown when Brian and Fiona will release more issues. Sci-fi setting with a Romeo and Juliet inspired narrative where we follow Marko and Alana as they try to survive and hide from bounty hunters who are after them. There are LGBTQ characters in the story so the sensitive people in the thread may want to stay away.


Sex Criminals - Written by Matt Fraction and drawn by Chip Zdarsky. Nice little comedic story about Jon and Suzie who end up sleeping together after a party and finding out that they share a special ability/power. They use this power to do all sorts of things and it gets them in all sorts of trouble. The less said about this story the better.
It's honestly hard to find images that don't spoil anything so I'm not going to post any except for some covers.



Tokyo Ghost - Writen by Rick Remender and drawn by Sean Phillips. Set in 2089, humanity is absolutely addicted to technology and the internet and are hooked directly into everything. Detectives Debbie Decay and Led Dent are given a case that leads them to the last technology free city on the planet, Tokyo. Great story and beautiful fucking art.



Velvet - Written by Ed Brubaker and drawn by Steve Epting. Spy thriller set in the 70's, follow Velvet Templeton as she tries to clear her name for a murder she didn't commit. Nothing new or groundbreaking here if you have seen/read other spy thriller stories but it's still damn good.
 

sol_bad

Member
Right, based off of sales data, which we’ve already clearly shown Sol knows nothing about. After failing to defend the industry falling sales, we have to hear about his comic book collection?

Okay

Straight up denial
schitts creek good luck GIF by CBC

I get sales data.
You guys are the ones that want to compare the "collected edition" market of manga to the "direct" market of comics. They are two completely different things and it is you who can't get your thick skull around that fact.

Compare the "collected edition" market of both manga and comics and comics come out on top.
 
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oagboghi2

Member
You’re still pushing that b.s
I get sales data.
You guys are the ones that want to compare the "collected edition" market of manga to the "direct" market of comics. They are two completely different things and it is you who can't get your thick skull around that fact.

Compare the "collected edition" market of both manga and comics and comics come out on top.
And we have already been over why your talking point defenses are bullshit. You are still comparing the manga market to the overall tpb market which encompasses both.

go back and read your posts. You ignored the fact that manga growth drive the market. You ignored that YoY comic sales were flat or declining in recent years. You just kept pounding this idea that manga can’t be compared to comic books because of the direct market which 1. Was never the point and 2. Not accurate.
 

sol_bad

Member
You’re still pushing that b.s

And we have already been over why your talking point defenses are bullshit. You are still comparing the manga market to the overall tpb market which encompasses both.

go back and read your posts. You ignored the fact that manga growth drive the market. You ignored that YoY comic sales were flat or declining in recent years. You just kept pounding this idea that manga can’t be compared to comic books because of the direct market which 1. Was never the point and 2. Not accurate.

Go back to post 174 and 175.
The graphic novel market is worth 835 million, that includes TPB, hardcovers, manga and everything of it's like. Manga made just under 250 million. That leaves 585 million on the table. Some of it will be European books but that doesn't have a huge market in the USA. I don't think Kickstarter related books are included in those numbers either.
A majority of that 585 million is going to come from Marvel, DC, Image, IDW and Boom, the vast majority of which will be the big two.

But you guys want to try and shove that under the rug to push your narrative. Whether it's manga or western comics, they are both doing extradinarily well and are both very healthy in the collected market.

You should read my posts again, I've agreed multiple times that the comic floppies market is not really growing and staying stagnant.
 

Amiga

Member
Right, based off of sales data, which we’ve already clearly shown Sol knows nothing about. After failing to defend the industry falling sales, we have to hear about his comic book collection?

Okay

Straight up denial
schitts creek good luck GIF by CBC

Comics don't need to sell 100k+ to be sustainable. Dark Horse, IDW publish tons of comics on limited sales. Invincible and Savage Dragon made it over 100 issues based on solid reader loyalty.
 

Amiga

Member
Amiga Amiga

Image Comics.

Black Science - Written by Rick Remender and drawn by Matteo Scalera, quite frankly one of the best teams I've seen in comicdom. The basic premise is about Grant Mackay creating a device that opens the doorway to other realities. He, 5 of his co-workers and his 2 children are taken to a new reality and the device is sabotaged so they have no way home. The device randomly teleports them to new realities, sometimes they are in a reality for 5 minutes, sometimes for days or weeks. So it is about them trying to get back home to their reality.



Deadly Class - Also written by Rick Remender, drawn by Wes Craig and coloured by Lee Loughridge, I'm mentioning the colourist as he adds a real unique identity to the series. The story revolves around Marcus Lopez who is an orphan living on the streets, set in the 1980's. He ends up being enrolled into a school of assassins so it's about him, his life, his past, why he is an orphan and him getting to know his classmates, learning about love and dealing with the struggles within the school.



Decender - Writen by Jeff Lemire and drawn by Dustin Nguyen. Sci-fi setting in the far future where the universe basically hates robots and destroys almost all of them. Enter TIM-21, one of the last remaining robots who is wanted by the United Galactic Council. You'll need to read the book to find out why robots are hated. It has a sequel series called Ascender which I haven't read yet, it's final issue comes out within the net month or two.



East of West -Written by Jonathan Hickman, another God tier writer and drawn by Nick Dragotta. Another perfect paring in bring this future dystopian alternate reality world to life. A world where the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are real and instead of USA having 52 states it has 7 nations of America who all agreed to a truce due to a comet hitting Earth. Will the Horsemen accomplish their prophecies or is there more at play here?


Kill or be Killed - Written by Ed Brubaker and drawn by Sean Phillips, this duo has actually done a lot of books together including Criminal, Fatale and The Fade Out. This book explores vigilantism and is about Dylan who is saved from suicide by a demon, the demon tells him that if he wants to continue living he needs to provide a soul at least once a month. This requires him to murder someone so he goes about his duty trying to work out who is deserving of dying.


Lazerus - Writen by Greg Rucka and Michael Lark. This book is unfortunately not completed 100% but it's really good. There are 28 standard issues, then there are 6 X+66 issues that focus on supporting characters, and finally there are the Lazerus Risen issues which is up to #6, I personally haven't caught up on the Risen issues yet. It's another dystopian future of soughts where there world is controlled by families instead of governments. Each government has a Lazerus which is like a protector of the family, some of them have cybernetic enhancements, some have enhanced abilities, some aren't enhanced at all. The narrative focuses on Forever Carlyle and her family secret.




Saga - Written by Brian K Vaugn and drawn by Fiona Staples, easily one of my favourite comics. I must warn you that this story is still not finished and has a cliffhanger that will drive you insane. The last issue released in February 2018 and it's unknown when Brian and Fiona will release more issues. Sci-fi setting with a Romeo and Juliet inspired narrative where we follow Marko and Alana as they try to survive and hide from bounty hunters who are after them. There are LGBTQ characters in the story so the sensitive people in the thread may want to stay away.


Sex Criminals - Written by Matt Fraction and drawn by Chip Zdarsky. Nice little comedic story about Jon and Suzie who end up sleeping together after a party and finding out that they share a special ability/power. They use this power to do all sorts of things and it gets them in all sorts of trouble. The less said about this story the better.
It's honestly hard to find images that don't spoil anything so I'm not going to post any except for some covers.



Tokyo Ghost - Writen by Rick Remender and drawn by Sean Phillips. Set in 2089, humanity is absolutely addicted to technology and the internet and are hooked directly into everything. Detectives Debbie Decay and Led Dent are given a case that leads them to the last technology free city on the planet, Tokyo. Great story and beautiful fucking art.



Velvet - Written by Ed Brubaker and drawn by Steve Epting. Spy thriller set in the 70's, follow Velvet Templeton as she tries to clear her name for a murder she didn't commit. Nothing new or groundbreaking here if you have seen/read other spy thriller stories but it's still damn good.

Art is fantastic on these, amazing that Rick Remender still hustles and and teams up with great artist and puts out regular work outside of DC/Marvel.
 

oagboghi2

Member
Go back to post 174 and 175.
The graphic novel market is worth 835 million, that includes TPB, hardcovers, manga and everything of it's like. Manga made just under 250 million. That leaves 585 million on the table. Some of it will be European books but that doesn't have a huge market in the USA. I don't think Kickstarter related books are included in those numbers either.
A majority of that 585 million is going to come from Marvel, DC, Image, IDW and Boom, the vast majority of which will be the big two.

But you guys want to try and shove that under the rug to push your narrative. Whether it's manga or western comics, they are both doing extradinarily well and are both very healthy in the collected market.

You should read my posts again, I've agreed multiple times that the comic floppies market is not really growing and staying stagnant.
Did you read those posts?

First of all, the graphic novel market is 835 million, but that includes manga and comic anthologies. So you cannot compare the whole market, that includes manga and comics, with manga alone. Secondly, the comic book market was $285mio. while manga was almost equal to that $250mio. in 2020. Manga has become as big as comics in the frikkin' U.S. and is set to outpace the comic market in the near future.
As has already been pointed out a dozen times, manga is seeing much higher growth than the north American comics (and yes, that includes Kickstarter. ) To the point that if this continues unchanged, which it likely will it will eclipse marvel/DC/whatever in sales in 2 years. Maybe less

That's the point.

and no, it's not both "sides"

. In particular, the report showed a large growth in the category of graphic novels (up 4 million from first quarter 2020), with manga accounting for 80% of growth in that category.

The growth is pretty much one sided

Comics don't need to sell 100k+ to be sustainable. Dark Horse, IDW publish tons of comics on limited sales. Invincible and Savage Dragon made it over 100 issues based on solid reader loyalty.
No one said they need to sell 100k, and let's be honest most books barely sell over 30k.

The point is less people are buying these books,and every point of data just reinforces that.
 

sol_bad

Member
Amiga Amiga

All New Wolverine (2015) - Written by Tom Taylor and drawn by various artists. Laura Kinney (X-23) is the new Wolverine as Logan is
dead
. She discovers that there are clones of herself and the first arc involves her tracking them down and serving them justice, or is she? I've only read the first 6 issues but I found it to be amazing. I understand the series explores Laura's past and it's easy for new readers to jump in. It's 35 issues long and I have heard non stop good things about it.



Ant-Man (2015) + Astonishing Ant-Man (2015) - Written by Nick Spencer and primarily drawn by Ramon Rosanas. Scott Lang moves to the west coast to be close to his daughter Cassie and sets up a security firm and employs the help of a few old school villains. Nice light hearted fun to be had here, nothing to serious or deep.



Howard the Duck (2015A) + Howard the Duck (2015B) - Written by Chip Zdarsky and drawn by Joe Quinones. Pretty short series with only 16 issues and I was surprised how sci-fi oriented it was. Howard and his assistant Tara Tam are hired to investigate strange going ons with the elderly and shit just gets weirder and weirder and we end up in space. Another light hearted and funny series.



Marvel Alien (2021) - Written by Phillip Kennedy Johnson and drawn by Salvador Larroca. I know this is cheating because it's a current ongoing series but I'm really enjoying it and it creeps me out. Our protagonist is Gabe Cruz and he returns home to Earth from an extended mission with Weyland Yutani, he is estranged from his son but wants to get to know him better, makes contact with him and his son basically screws him over. Events unfold and he ends up back on the Weyland Yutani space station fighting for his life. Larroca is hit and miss with his art and it's true for this book, some pages look beautiful and some look terrible.



Thor (2014) + Mighty Thor (2015) - Written by Jason Aaron and primarily drawn by Russell Dauterman. Not sure if this is cheating or not as it is actually a continuation of the 2012 Thor: God of War series. These series are where female Thor takes over the mantle, I won't say who she is in case you aren't aware. You see her come to grips with who she has become, you discover her identity and you see her causing friction in Thor Odinson's family. Absolutely stunning art. Leads into the massive War of the Realms event which I haven't read yet.



Ms. Marvel (2014) + Ms. Marvel (2015) - Written by G. Willow Wilson and primarily drawn by Adrian Alphona and Takeshi Miyazawa. Kamala Khan is a newly turned Inhuman and so the story follows her as she comes to grips with her new powers, makes mistakes along the way and meets Inhuman royalty. Basically the modern day Spider-Man if you will. And I swear to god the last few issues of volume 1 leading up to Secret Wars had my eyes tearing up, so well written. The second volume isn't quite as good but still fun.
Adrian Alphona


Takeshi Miyazawa



Old Man Logan (2015) + Old Man Logan (2016) - Written by Brian Michael Bendis and drawn by Andrea Sorrentino. A bit of a longer read at 55 issues. I haven't read a lot of it but loving what I have read so far. Volume 1 takes place during Secret Wars on Battleworld, learn some history about Old Logan and see him breach the walls of Battleworld. Volume 2 is him waking up in the new 616 world and him adjusting to that new world, set when younger Logan is
dead
.



Red Wolf (2015) - Written by Nathan Edmonson and drawn by Dalibor Talajic. Very short 6 issue series. most likely due to being cancelled as there are a lot of loose ends. I enjoyed it, about an American Indjun who is teleported from 1872 to the present. Classic fish out of water story where Red Wolf is helping solve a case with the local sheriff.



Scarlet Witch (2015) - Written by James Robinson and drawn by various artists. If you enjoyed WandaVision I think this is a series worth checking out, only goes for 15 issues and each issue is drawn by a different artist. Might throw you off tonally and it's not always the best art but it's an interesting experiment. The story revolves around her investigating a recent disruption in magic.


Spider-Woman (2014) + Spider-Woman (2015) - Written by Dennis Hopeless and drawn by Greg land and Javier Rodriguez. The first 6 or so issues tie into the Spider-Verse story but you shouldn't be to lost just from reading this. She quits the Avengers in volume 1 and decides to go solo, she is joined by Ben Ulrich and Porcupine who help her with some cases. Volume 2 starts off with her being pregnant which is a bit weird but only 1 issue has her doing any sort of actual action, thank god.



The Vision (2015) - Written by Tom King and drawn by Mike Del Mundo. Just like Scarlet Witch if you liked WandaVision you should try this out. Hell if you didn't like WandaVision you should still check this out. The less said the better.
 
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strange headache

Fluctuat nec mergitur
Dude, at least use a spoiler tag if you post so many images. I'm really tired of endlessly scrolling up an down in this thread.

Also, who are you trying to convince here? Nobody cares about Kamala, Capt. Marvel or the countless gender/color swapped versions of Wolverine, Thor, Spider-Man, Iron-Man and all the other heroes.
Even if there's some decent artwork here and there, nobody wants to see it because of the lame characters and crappy storytelling.

Edit: Thanks for the spoiler tag, much appreciated.
 
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Amiga

Member
Amiga Amiga

All New Wolverine (2015) - Written by Tom Taylor and drawn by various artists. Laura Kinney (X-23) is the new Wolverine as Logan is
dead
. She discovers that there are clones of herself and the first arc involves her tracking them down and serving them justice, or is she? I've only read the first 6 issues but I found it to be amazing. I understand the series explores Laura's past and it's easy for new readers to jump in. It's 35 issues long and I have heard non stop good things about it.



Ant-Man (2015) + Astonishing Ant-Man (2015) - Written by Nick Spencer and primarily drawn by Ramon Rosanas. Scott Lang moves to the west coast to be close to his daughter Cassie and sets up a security firm and employs the help of a few old school villains. Nice light hearted fun to be had here, nothing to serious or deep.



Howard the Duck (2015A) + Howard the Duck (2015B) - Written by Chip Zdarsky and drawn by Joe Quinones. Pretty short series with only 16 issues and I was surprised how sci-fi oriented it was. Howard and his assistant Tara Tam are hired to investigate strange going ons with the elderly and shit just gets weirder and weirder and we end up in space. Another light hearted and funny series.



Marvel Alien (2021) - Written by Phillip Kennedy Johnson and drawn by Salvador Larroca. I know this is cheating because it's a current ongoing series but I'm really enjoying it and it creeps me out. Our protagonist is Gabe Cruz and he returns home to Earth from an extended mission with Weyland Yutani, he is estranged from his son but wants to get to know him better, makes contact with him and his son basically screws him over. Events unfold and he ends up back on the Weyland Yutani space station fighting for his life. Larroca is hit and miss with his art and it's true for this book, some pages look beautiful and some look terrible.



Thor (2014) + Mighty Thor (2015) - Written by Jason Aaron and primarily drawn by Russell Dauterman. Not sure if this is cheating or not as it is actually a continuation of the 2012 Thor: God of War series. These series are where female Thor takes over the mantle, I won't say who she is in case you aren't aware. You see her come to grips with who she has become, you discover her identity and you see her causing friction in Thor Odinson's family. Absolutely stunning art. Leads into the massive War of the Realms event which I haven't read yet.



Ms. Marvel (2014) + Ms. Marvel (2015) - Written by G. Willow Wilson and primarily drawn by Adrian Alphona and Takeshi Miyazawa. Kamala Khan is a newly turned Inhuman and so the story follows her as she comes to grips with her new powers, makes mistakes along the way and meets Inhuman royalty. Basically the modern day Spider-Man if you will. And I swear to god the last few issues of volume 1 leading up to Secret Wars had my eyes tearing up, so well written. The second volume isn't quite as good but still fun.
Adrian Alphona


Takeshi Miyazawa



Old Man Logan (2015) + Old Man Logan (2016) - Written by Brian Michael Bendis and drawn by Andrea Sorrentino. A bit of a longer read at 55 issues. I haven't read a lot of it but loving what I have read so far. Volume 1 takes place during Secret Wars on Battleworld, learn some history about Old Logan and see him breach the walls of Battleworld. Volume 2 is him waking up in the new 616 world and him adjusting to that new world, set when younger Logan is
dead
.



Red Wolf (2015) - Written by Nathan Edmonson and drawn by Dalibor Talajic. Very short 6 issue series. most likely due to being cancelled as there are a lot of loose ends. I enjoyed it, about an American Indjun who is teleported from 1872 to the present. Classic fish out of water story where Red Wolf is helping solve a case with the local sheriff.



Scarlet Witch (2015) - Written by James Robinson and drawn by various artists. If you enjoyed WandaVision I think this is a series worth checking out, only goes for 15 issues and each issue is drawn by a different artist. Might throw you off tonally and it's not always the best art but it's an interesting experiment. The story revolves around her investigating a recent disruption in magic.


Spider-Woman (2014) + Spider-Woman (2015) - Written by Dennis Hopeless and drawn by Greg land and Javier Rodriguez. The first 6 or so issues tie into the Spider-Verse story but you shouldn't be to lost just from reading this. She quits the Avengers in volume 1 and decides to go solo, she is joined by Ben Ulrich and Porcupine who help her with some cases. Volume 2 starts off with her being pregnant which is a bit weird but only 1 issue has her doing any sort of actual action, thank god.



The Vision (2015) - Written by Tom King and drawn by Mike Del Mundo. Just like Scarlet Witch if you liked WandaVision you should try this out. Hell if you didn't like WandaVision you should still check this out. The less said the better.

did like WandaVision, gonna check these books out.

isn't that Alan Davis on Wolverine(x23)? need to have anything he works on.
and speaking of Davis, he did a good FF:the End mini it was old school and works as a Marvel:the End book. you have to check it out.
 

sol_bad

Member
did like WandaVision, gonna check these books out.

isn't that Alan Davis on Wolverine(x23)? need to have anything he works on.
and speaking of Davis, he did a good FF:the End mini it was old school and works as a Marvel:the End book. you have to check it out.

David Lopez is the artist on the first 6 issues, then Marcio Takara on 2 issues, then Ig Guara on about 3 issues. The book has a very varied list of artists.
 

oagboghi2

Member
Dude, at least use a spoiler tag if you post so many images. I'm really tired of endlessly scrolling up an down in this thread.

Also, who are you trying to convince here? Nobody cares about Kamala, Capt. Marvel or the countless gender/color swapped versions of Wolverine, Thor, Spider-Man, Iron-Man and all the other heroes.
Even if there's some decent artwork here and there, nobody wants to see it because of the lame characters and crappy storytelling.
It was worth it to read that Wanda’s power has been retconned into being based off of “womankind energy”

Jesus fucking Christ Marvel 🙄
 
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Amiga

Member
David Lopez is the artist on the first 6 issues, then Marcio Takara on 2 issues, then Ig Guara on about 3 issues. The book has a very varied list of artists.
checked out a few more pages, guy seems inspired by a bit of Davis and also some Frank Quitely.

It was worth it to read that Wanda’s power has been retconned into being based off of “womankind energy”

kinda more realistic than radioactive spiders. you can't take comics too seriously.
 

sol_bad

Member
Witchery has always been about women and men being afraid of them.
checked out a few more pages, guy seems inspired by a bit of Davis and also some Frank Quitely.



kinda more realistic than radioactive spiders. you can't take comics too seriously.

Quitely is a very love or hate style, I primarily know him from the Jupiter books and I really liked it. I still need to read All Star Superman which I think is getting a deluxe hardcover at the start of 2022.
 

TonyK

Member
After reading a bunch of Mangas I bought recently Invincible and I'm not liking it, because it has the same problem that the rest of western comics I read: the narrative has no sense regarding time. Simply, things drawn and text boxes doesn't correspond with the time that action would need. It's painful to read compared with manga.
 

strange headache

Fluctuat nec mergitur
It was worth it to read that Wanda’s power has been retconned into being based off of “womankind energy”

Jesus fucking Christ Marvel 🙄

Oh, you mean this?



Yeah that is cringe as ever and the following panels don't make it any better.
She probably dabbles in menstrual art too :messenger_tears_of_joy:

After reading a bunch of Mangas I bought recently Invincible and I'm not liking it, because it has the same problem that the rest of western comics I read: the narrative has no sense regarding time. Simply, things drawn and text boxes doesn't correspond with the time that action would need. It's painful to read compared with manga.

True, which is why I preferred watching the animated series of Invincible. The premise is interesting and I enjoyed how visceral everything is. The first season was quite good. If you can get past the YA highschool drama, maybe give that one a watch.
 
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TonyK

Member
Oh, you mean this?



Yeah that is cringe as ever and the following panels don't make it any better.
She probably dabbles in menstrual art too :messenger_tears_of_joy:



True, which is why I preferred watching the animated series of Invincible. The premise is interesting and I enjoyed how visceral everything is. The first season was quite good. If you can get past the YA highschool drama, maybe give that one a watch.
One thing is very weird for me regarding narrative is that manga seems to nail it meanwhile western comics are narrated in a no cinematographic way (speaking about timing). But, and here it is my confusion, I feel the opposite regarding films and TV shows. There, western narrative seems perfectly timed and Japanese animes and movies are sloooooooow. It's weird for me how a comic book with "bad" narrative is translated perfectly to a film, but a perfectly narrated manga is translated to a boring and lack of rhythm anime or film.
 

Amiga

Member
Quitely is a very love or hate style, I primarily know him from the Jupiter books and I really liked it. I still need to read All Star Superman which I think is getting a deluxe hardcover at the start of 2022.

Quitely may not draw attractive human forms but he is a master at scene setting and story telling with art and his panels are dense and complement Morrisons writing. probably why they worked with each other often.
Quitely has a great short 3 issue with Morrison called W3, his All Star Superman is one of his best IMOO. the original story is much better than the movie because stuff has been cut out out and compressed. and Morrison's writing is already super condensed as it is.
his Authority work is also a must. this book and Planetary were the template that later shifted the tone of superhero comics.
 

oagboghi2

Member
kinda more realistic than radioactive spiders. you can't take comics too seriously.
I'll take a spider bite over this silly idea that energy is gendered.
One thing is very weird for me regarding narrative is that manga seems to nail it meanwhile western comics are narrated in a no cinematographic way (speaking about timing). But, and here it is my confusion, I feel the opposite regarding films and TV shows. There, western narrative seems perfectly timed and Japanese animes and movies are sloooooooow. It's weird for me how a comic book with "bad" narrative is translated perfectly to a film, but a perfectly narrated manga is translated to a boring and lack of rhythm anime or film.
Probably because manga is presented in a more dynamic fashion. Most anime adaptions closely follow the manga as long as they can, but manga isn't written for 20 mins of television or a 1 and a half hour movie.

By comparison, most western comic adaptions don't really adapt anything. They are just re-written for the new format.
 

sol_bad

Member
for Hulk it's the Peter David era. long runs with great artists like Dale Keown and Gary Frank. Peter took the character out of his angry monster box.


I have the 3rd Peter David omni, the 2nd gets reprinted next month and the 1st gets reprinted in early 2022 along with the 4th omni.
I'll be reading it as soon as I have all 4.

Currently reading silver age Hulk off and on, very average so far.
 

TonyK

Member
Reading Invincible right now and it has the same problem as all the superhero comics I read. This is the reason I can't enjoy western comic narrative after being used to manga: long dialogs in short time actions.

 

sunnysideup

Banned
Reading Invincible right now and it has the same problem as all the superhero comics I read. This is the reason I can't enjoy western comic narrative after being used to manga: long dialogs in short time actions.


Its like text and picture exists in two different dimensions. Separate entities.

It takes a lot of effort to understand what goes on. First you have to choose which to begin with, text or picture. Then you have interpret how they relate to one and other and what it all means. This could probably be used to great effect in some instances. But for the most part its just bad storytelling and makes everything jarring.

With manga i never feel i have to choose between text or picture it happens the same time and space. And everything just flows.
 

sunnysideup

Banned
Personally i believe big american media companies want to destroy comics as a medium completely. They want comic readership to go down in general. Because they don't want the competition. They could never control it.

Comics are absolute dirt cheap to make. Today its easy to distribute. You don't need diamond, comic stores or anything. Its cheap to print, and you don't even have to print.

The barrier of entry is really low. One man can create story that can compete with the biggest budget films, games whatever. Just take Beserk it is as good as any other mainstream fantasy in any other medium. And its very accessible and easy to get into.

One man made that.

Comics and manga have an insane potential.
 
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Lupingosei

Banned
I have one question, who should buy this stuff?

Even within the US, there is a very small minority who cares about this. On a global scale, it is probably less than 0.1% of the population.

The most successful mangas nowadays are attractive to everybody. You can buy mangas in Russia, China, or even South America. The crazy thing, even though US comics pander to minorities, more African Americans buy mangas or love anime.

And even within manga, there is a beautiful scene of creators who tackle very difficult topics. But they are not pushed into every aspect, but the customer has the choice. People love to be challenged, and those stories are selling. Of course not as much as a Demon Slayer, but still.

None of this in comics feels genuine. Gay people for example hated Iceman and Latinos America Chavez. Because it never felt like a story a creator really wanted to tell.
 

sol_bad

Member
This comic with Marvel Boy is 18 months old, it's Al Ewing's Guardians of the Galaxy, he is a very good writer.
Just to give some slight context to the page above, here are the panels that proceed it.



It's what you call comedy, it's meant to make Marvel Boy look not awesome.
 
This comic with Marvel Boy is 18 months old, it's Al Ewing's Guardians of the Galaxy, he is a very good writer.
Just to give some slight context to the page above, here are the panels that proceed it.



It's what you call comedy, it's meant to make Marvel Boy look not awesome.
That marvel boy followed by this? I am confident in telling you that comic is trash.
 

Lupingosei

Banned
Manga is sooooo screwed


This is the new comic by Emilia Clark. And of course, as most US comics nowadays it uses the style of "tell not show". It is amazing that Manga artists still insist on the mantra of "show not tell", can't they see what amazing storytelling is possible like this. So much text in a visual art medium is really understanding the concept of a comic on a deeper level.
 

Vaelka

Member
American comics are just stale as fuck, especially the oversaturation of superhero comics.

The cool thing about Manga and I think the greatest appeal is that there's literally something for everything and everyone.
The variety is insane.
Both for good and bad that is, there's some shady and questionable stuff but people tend to get hung up on that a lot.
But if you're really into cooking for example there's actual Manga and Anime for that, and that in turn might make you try something else I think it acts like a gateway into it.
 

Amiga

Member
American comics are just stale as fuck, especially the oversaturation of superhero comics.

The cool thing about Manga and I think the greatest appeal is that there's literally something for everything and everyone.
The variety is insane.
Both for good and bad that is, there's some shady and questionable stuff but people tend to get hung up on that a lot.
But if you're really into cooking for example there's actual Manga and Anime for that, and that in turn might make you try something else I think it acts like a gateway into it.

there is a healthy American GN market aimed at youth with a lot of variety. not everything revolves around small monthly magazines. and the GN market presents a better deal. a full book for 8-15 bucks vs $5 for 20 pages.
 

oagboghi2

Member
Manga is sooooo screwed


This is the new comic by Emilia Clark. And of course, as most US comics nowadays it uses the style of "tell not show". It is amazing that Manga artists still insist on the mantra of "show not tell", can't they see what amazing storytelling is possible like this. So much text in a visual art medium is really understanding the concept of a comic on a deeper level.
She is so relatable. A modern day Peter Parker.

Chelsea Peretti Eye Roll GIF by Brooklyn Nine-Nine
 
Pretty much why I only buy graphic novel collections for characters I really like. There are about a thousand different reboots these days for each character. It's impossible to know where to jump in or where the best starting point is. So now, if I want to read Venom or Carnage, I just buy a hardback collection which includes like 6 comics in one. I don't even care if I have to read some other shite first in order for it to make sense, fuck that. I'll read this, and if it's a cool story, great. Sick and tired of researching for hours where the best jumping on point is.
 

Vaelka

Member
there is a healthy American GN market aimed at youth with a lot of variety. not everything revolves around small monthly magazines. and the GN market presents a better deal. a full book for 8-15 bucks vs $5 for 20 pages.

Sure, there are a lot of independent artists too.
But I am mostly talking about the industry more front and center , and also most independent/ smaller publisher comics in NA are still either superhero comics or they're teenage dramas, zombies, grimdark superheroes etc.
They don't rly have the wacky premises and diversity of Manga, or the scale.
A lot of Manga is like straight up franchises in their own right.
 
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Amiga

Member
Sure, there are a lot of independent artists too.
But I am mostly talking about the industry more front and center , and also most independent/ smaller publisher comics in NA are still either superhero comics or they're teenage dramas, zombies, grimdark superheroes etc.
They don't rly have the wacky premises and diversity of Manga, or the scale.
A lot of Manga is like straight up franchises in their own right.
it's because of the weakly magazine collection format. a mag would have one or 2 main event manga, and would fill the rest with niche filler that are hit and miss.
 

Werewolf Jones

Gold Member
Just look at all the manga we don't know from Shonen.


There is a lot of shit manga too, we just don't get it. And when I say shit, I mean not fit for western consumption.
Shounen Jump is a popularity contest not a quality contest. Manga live or die based on votes from readers whether they like it or not, although a lot of content in it these days is manufactured as fuck. MHA feels like it was based on editor decisions over creator.
 

CAPSOL

Member
Amiga Amiga

Image Comics.

Black Science - Written by Rick Remender and drawn by Matteo Scalera, quite frankly one of the best teams I've seen in comicdom. The basic premise is about Grant Mackay creating a device that opens the doorway to other realities. He, 5 of his co-workers and his 2 children are taken to a new reality and the device is sabotaged so they have no way home. The device randomly teleports them to new realities, sometimes they are in a reality for 5 minutes, sometimes for days or weeks. So it is about them trying to get back home to their reality.



Deadly Class - Also written by Rick Remender, drawn by Wes Craig and coloured by Lee Loughridge, I'm mentioning the colourist as he adds a real unique identity to the series. The story revolves around Marcus Lopez who is an orphan living on the streets, set in the 1980's. He ends up being enrolled into a school of assassins so it's about him, his life, his past, why he is an orphan and him getting to know his classmates, learning about love and dealing with the struggles within the school.



Decender - Writen by Jeff Lemire and drawn by Dustin Nguyen. Sci-fi setting in the far future where the universe basically hates robots and destroys almost all of them. Enter TIM-21, one of the last remaining robots who is wanted by the United Galactic Council. You'll need to read the book to find out why robots are hated. It has a sequel series called Ascender which I haven't read yet, it's final issue comes out within the net month or two.



East of West -Written by Jonathan Hickman, another God tier writer and drawn by Nick Dragotta. Another perfect paring in bring this future dystopian alternate reality world to life. A world where the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are real and instead of USA having 52 states it has 7 nations of America who all agreed to a truce due to a comet hitting Earth. Will the Horsemen accomplish their prophecies or is there more at play here?


Kill or be Killed - Written by Ed Brubaker and drawn by Sean Phillips, this duo has actually done a lot of books together including Criminal, Fatale and The Fade Out. This book explores vigilantism and is about Dylan who is saved from suicide by a demon, the demon tells him that if he wants to continue living he needs to provide a soul at least once a month. This requires him to murder someone so he goes about his duty trying to work out who is deserving of dying.


Lazerus - Writen by Greg Rucka and Michael Lark. This book is unfortunately not completed 100% but it's really good. There are 28 standard issues, then there are 6 X+66 issues that focus on supporting characters, and finally there are the Lazerus Risen issues which is up to #6, I personally haven't caught up on the Risen issues yet. It's another dystopian future of soughts where there world is controlled by families instead of governments. Each government has a Lazerus which is like a protector of the family, some of them have cybernetic enhancements, some have enhanced abilities, some aren't enhanced at all. The narrative focuses on Forever Carlyle and her family secret.




Saga - Written by Brian K Vaugn and drawn by Fiona Staples, easily one of my favourite comics. I must warn you that this story is still not finished and has a cliffhanger that will drive you insane. The last issue released in February 2018 and it's unknown when Brian and Fiona will release more issues. Sci-fi setting with a Romeo and Juliet inspired narrative where we follow Marko and Alana as they try to survive and hide from bounty hunters who are after them. There are LGBTQ characters in the story so the sensitive people in the thread may want to stay away.


Sex Criminals - Written by Matt Fraction and drawn by Chip Zdarsky. Nice little comedic story about Jon and Suzie who end up sleeping together after a party and finding out that they share a special ability/power. They use this power to do all sorts of things and it gets them in all sorts of trouble. The less said about this story the better.
It's honestly hard to find images that don't spoil anything so I'm not going to post any except for some covers.



Tokyo Ghost - Writen by Rick Remender and drawn by Sean Phillips. Set in 2089, humanity is absolutely addicted to technology and the internet and are hooked directly into everything. Detectives Debbie Decay and Led Dent are given a case that leads them to the last technology free city on the planet, Tokyo. Great story and beautiful fucking art.



Velvet - Written by Ed Brubaker and drawn by Steve Epting. Spy thriller set in the 70's, follow Velvet Templeton as she tries to clear her name for a murder she didn't commit. Nothing new or groundbreaking here if you have seen/read other spy thriller stories but it's still damn good.
what a great post! You mention some of the best comics out there....
 
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