MiguelItUp
Member
I suppose so, still sounds kind of bad. If anything this whole thread and that tweet, is misleading, lol.
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Certain affinity ® collaborating with 343 on Halo Infinite
- Thread starter Dolomite
- Start date
MasterCornholio
Member
First party studios that outsource work are either inept or too slow.
*Checks list of studios that fall into this category
Damn:
- Naughty Dog
- Guerrilla Games
- Sony Santa Monica
- Playground Games
- Insomniac Games
- Sucker Punch Studios
- Bend Studio
- Rare
- 343i
- The Coalition
And thats just off head, if I sit and actually get on Artstation I bet I could find an outsourcing studio or artist for every first party game released this generation.
Shit every pretty much first part studio must be inept or too slow, what the fuck is going on at all these studios, how are they still even employed......ohh because they outsource their work to be able to finish these massive projects in a semblence of a timely manner, nah that couldnt be it.....they are just inept or too slow.
Pejo is an absolute genius for having figured this out.
Are you saying that 343 are competent and fast?
I agree that outsourcing work doesn't mean the studio is incompetent but we all saw what happened to Halo Infinite.
Didn't sperasoft just recently start on it too?
www.neogaf.com
News - Developer Sperasoft joins Halo Infinite development effort.
https://twinfinite.net/2020/08/sperasoft-joins-halo-infinite-development-effort/ From article to save you a click... Developer Sperasoft has this week announced it’s joining forces with 343 Industries in the development of Halo Infinite. The anticipated upcoming shooter is slated to launch...
Evangelion Unit-01
Master Chief
Dolomite
Would appreciate if you could add to OP for some context:
Certain Affinity has been working on Infinite since December 2019 and have a history of working on Halo MP dating back to Halo 2's 2006 DLC Map Pack. The studio was founded by Max Hoberman, former Bungie employee who worked on Oni, Halo, and Halo 2. Max was actually the MP/Online lead for Halo 2. Certain Affinity has produced maps for Halo 2, Halo Reach, and Halo 4. They were also responsible for the Halo 2 Anniversary MP for MCC. They are most likely making maps for Infinite and 343 will make the gameplay decisions, so don't expect classic Halo (unfortunately). As far as "outsourcing" goes, perhaps 343 has problem with outsourcing, but in this case CA is the best developer for the job. Some classic Halo fans would even argue that CA's Halo 2 Anniversary MP was better than Halo 4/5.
ZywyPL
Banned
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
Nice, not uncommon for devs to get help from other studios
iconmaster
Banned
The Cartographer
Member
By the next year it will become an industry joint project.
Rikkori
Member
Xbox fans always said they want MS to dip into that war chest for infinite funding.
Be careful what you wish for.
CamHostage
Member
Yeah, it's really crazy when I look up some game companies to find out what they've been up to, and it takes a second at first to sort out my reaction of, "Wait, they didn't make that game, what's going on here?" Like, just a few that came up for me recently...
Behaviour Interactive: The company that made Dead by Daylight (and also long ago Wet and Naughty Bear...) worked on Gears 5? Days Gone? FarCry 5? Dishonored? South Park 2? Halo: Master Chief Collection and Halo Wars Definitive? (Also not listed: the infamous PS3/360 versions of Shadow of Mordor...)
Virtuos: This Singapore-based company is known for tons of downports and upconversions such as The Outer Worlds & Dark Souls Remastered on Switch, Batman Return to Arkham, and FF X/X2 Remastered, but they also did art and contract work for Horizon, Monster Hunter World, Star Wars Battlefront II, Madden, Spyro Reignited, and many more.
High Voltage Software: One of many companies who worked on Fortnite: Save the World (another is Steamroller Studio, and I'm sure there's others...)
So, the Halo Infinite situation is ugly in a lot of ways, but aside from it being a super high-profile disaster, there's a lot of normal action that's being taken that's getting spotlighted because it's hot news but may well have been part of the development plan with or without the delay. It's actually a rare nicity that these external studios are getting public credit for their contributions, and I would have thought Microsoft would have tried to hide its contract work so as not to attract even more attention but here we are.
NullZ3r0
Banned
This is a matter of some marketing people thinking this shit looks okay. MS needs people who aren't afraid to tell higher ups that something looks like shit.Are you saying that 343 are competent and fast?
I agree that outsourcing work doesn't mean the studio is incompetent but we all saw what happened to Halo Infinite.
MasterCornholio
Member
Zato
Banned
Microsoft has Phil Spencer.
About as much use as a cock flavoured lollipop
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Are you saying that 343 are competent and fast?
I agree that outsourcing work doesn't mean the studio is incompetent but we all saw what happened to Halo Infinite.
Im saying them having outsource studios working for them doesnt mean they are inept and too slow.
As every single AAA game this generation has had outsourcing work done for them.
The poster I was quoting clearly doesnt know how AAA game development works and needed to bandwagon.
If the greybox of Halo Infinite works thats already enough credit to them, the game being graphically below par isnt a sign of ineptitude in game development.
From looking at a game graphically, it would be impossible to posit whether a studio is inept or not.
(the part I understand the least of this whole mess, is peoples main complaints have been graphical issues and the popin(also graphical)......if the exact same game the exact same demo we saw, had amazing graphics would the reception have been different?)
MasterCornholio
Member
Probably because it would look next gen and would have been received alot better. And if everything else was good with the game it could have been released this holiday season.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
People still doubting the 500 million price tag? Like how many people are getting paid to make this!
Dolomite
Member
Just for you
Would appreciate if you could add to OP for some context:
Certain Affinity has been working on Infinite since December 2019 and have a history of working on Halo MP dating back to Halo 2's 2006 DLC Map Pack. The studio was founded by Max Hoberman, former Bungie employee who worked on Oni, Halo, and Halo 2. Max was actually the MP/Online lead for Halo 2. Certain Affinity has produced maps for Halo 2, Halo Reach, and Halo 4. They were also responsible for the Halo 2 Anniversary MP for MCC. They are most likely making maps for Infinite and 343 will make the gameplay decisions, so don't expect classic Halo (unfortunately). As far as "outsourcing" goes, perhaps 343 has problem with outsourcing, but in this case CA is the best developer for the job. Some classic Halo fans would even argue that CA's Halo 2 Anniversary MP was better than Halo 4/5.
Andodalf
Banned
How many studios are working on this game now?
The information from this thread let us know the count went up by 0. As this was old news. But sick driveby.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
I did, now I'm embarrassed I even asked.
PharaoTutAnchAmun
Member
Indiana Jones Raiders of the lost ark
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Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
So the main complaint people have about the game is that it doesnt look nextgen....which isnt a sign of a developers ability to develop a good game. As long as we are in agreement there, then my point is over.
I dont really have much else to add, the screenshot you posted wasnt indicative of anything that I or the poster I was quoting were talking, the number of outsourcing studios isnt indicative of anything.
If we are discussing Halo Infinite development as a whole.....I believe there is another thread for that.
Note; that outsourcing artwork/assets is the most common form of outsourcing
MasterCornholio
Member
Well there were some issues like the footage that they showed us. Like pop-in and extremely low resolution textures.
There were technical issues with the demo they they showed us.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Well there were some issues like the footage that they showed us. Like pop-in and extremely low resolution textures.
There were technical issues with the demo they they showed us.
Pop-in sure thats a technical issue we couldnt possibly know the cause of.
Low res textures goes right back to the graphics argument.
Nier Automata had some horrendous textures....but that wasnt indicative of Platinums ability as a developer.
But as I said, people main issue is graphics, and now seemingly and erroneously outsourcing.
My issue was that
Pejo
stating 343 is inept or too slow because they have outsourcing studios is wrong because all AAA studios use outsourcing so that in and of itself isnt an indication of anything.You posting a screenshot of Halo with bad graphics doesnt say anything to support or counter the statement that 343 is a inept or too slow....it simply shows that the game has bad graphics.
You get what im trying to say?
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MasterCornholio
Member
Pop-in sure thats a technical issue we couldnt possibly know the cause of.
Low res textures goes right back to the graphics argument.
Nier Automata had some horrendous textures....but that wasnt indicative of Platinums ability as a developer.
But as I said, people main issue is graphics, and now seemingly and erroneously outsourcing.
My issue was that
You posting a screenshot of Halo with bad graphics doesnt say anything to support or counter the statement that 343 is a inept or too slow....it simply shows that the game has bad graphics.
You get what im trying to say?
I understand what you're trying to say but what they showed us doesn't look like something a competent developer would make especially after 5 years if development.
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
How many people in this thread lack reading comprehension?
Evangelion Unit-01
Master Chief
People don’t like to read articles and would rather dunk on the other platform.
I haven’t felt good about Halo Infinite ever-old school fan not happy with current vision for franchise-but this isn’t bad news at all. In fact, it’s probably the best news to come out since the game was announced. CA is a great partner.
ZehDon
Gold Member
Its likely they've been contributing to Infinite for a while, but I guess 343i just can't get it all done. This isn't CA's first time on Halo, either - they've been helping out since Halo 2 Map Packs. Fun fact: they were responsible for Halo 4's multiplayer, and Doom 2016's multiplayer. The former was the worst in the history the series, the latter was... also the worst in the history of the series. Their work on COD ranges from great to bad. They do great art and assets, though.
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rogue_nine82
Member
I'm just hoping for a great game. If it takes bringing onboard more studios and people to help, I'm all for it. Better that than subjecting 343 to crunch. Granted everyone wishes that 343 didn't have to come to this after such a long development cycle, but it is what it is.
MrFunSocks
Banned
CA have collaborated with 343i for years though, this is nothing new. They help make multiplayer levels and content.
Seems people aren't understanding what's going on here and are jumping to being concerned. Also pretty much all of the biggest and most loved by GAF games and developers outsource work to other studios like this, including the big Sony studios.
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Potato Chip PRO
Member
Halo Infinites credit screen will probably be longer than the LOTR film trilogy at this point... If it will make the game a while lot better, I'm all up for it.
MrFunSocks
Banned
Can you show us some examples of Xbox One games that are 60fps locked and open world so we can compare?
MiguelItUp
Member
Not necessarily, at least not this time. Both the thread and the tweet itself painted a different picture, so I can't really blame anyone. Correct, that's not uncommon. Again, I think it's just primarily because this info came to light for a lot of people right now rather than earlier.
MrFunSocks
Banned
Not necessarily? CA have been working with 343i for years, so people jumping all over themselves to say this shows that Infinite is a mess because they've had to call in more teams is them not understanding what's going on.
Evangelion Unit-01
Master Chief
Kind of. They did some maps for Halo 4 but all of the gameplay decisions were 343. So I wouldn’t blame them for Halo 4.
They did do the full MP for Halo 2 Anniversary which Was fantastic. Best MP since Halo 3. Was only a half dozen maps. Honestly if it were a full MP suite and had post launch support it would probably be the best in the series.
Re: COD I think their work on maps has been great but that’s largely been their limit of their role. They aren’t making the gameplay decisions here. I would say the CODs game quality lies more with the gameplay designers than with CA’s maps.
Re: Doom. The MP they made was not a good Doom MP but was a pretty fun FPS-just not what people signed up for when they bought Doom. Had a lot of similarities to Halo. Had it been released as a new IP with live support like Siege or Valorant it might have had some legs. Not great with doom on the box but if the box said “Space Marine FPS” it would have done better.
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Explosive Zombie
Banned
is Halo Infinite on XB1 a 60fps locked open world game? The framerate is only confirmed for the Series X version.
ZehDon
Gold Member
According to Certain Affinity themselves, at the time of Halo 4's release, "Every single product 343 has released to date, if we haven't been the sole developer then we've been the co-developer". Eurogamer was keen to paint CA as the "un-sung hero" of Halo 4, and credits them with developing an enormous amount of the multiplayer component in particular.
For Halo 2 Anniversary, CA was tasked with updating the Halo 2 multiplayer as part of the Anniversary package. The blueprint of the gameplay was already there, so the amount of kudos I pay to them there is limited.
At the time of the Doom 2016 beta, I called the multiplayer "the worst case scenario" and suggested cutting the entire feature. I stand by that assessment - especially having since played the single player campaign, to which the multiplayer feels very alien. It's not just a bad Doom game, it was a bad COD-clone in the same way that Halo 4's multiplayer was a bad COD-clone. Halo 4 was wisely altered by 343i post-launch, but the damage had already been done. Doom 2016 was wisely abandoned.
As for the rest, as I said, CA's output ranges from great to bad. Some of their maps have been the highlights of their respective games. Some of their maps have been less so. However, no one can doubt the quality of their art. In particular, the range that their artists are capable of is incredibly impressive; seamlessly integrated into the franchises they've worked on. If you didn't know their work had been outsourced, you wouldn't figure it out on your own. A true testament to their talent.
MiguelItUp
Member
The not necessarily portion was referring to what I highlighted in bold, my bad for any confusion. I get what you're saying, I just don't think the majority knew that, myself included. Admittedly I don't follow CA or Halo's development that closely.
Evangelion Unit-01
Master Chief
With Halo 4 they certainly did a bulk of development yes, sorry, wasn't trying to downplay that but the gameplay decisions/COD elements all came from 343 under Kevin Franklin. CA was mostly just in a fulfillment/content creation role rather than in a design/gameplay role. That said, I wouldn't hold them responsible for the Sprint/Loadout/Ordnance mess that was Halo 4 MP.
With Doom, I think was a fine MP but not the right one for a Doom title. Released on it's own as smaller project it might have done alright but it certainly was not the right thing to include in Doom.
Not going to suggest that CA would make the best Halo ever, they might make a complete dud; just that I wouldn't blame the bad parts of Halo 4/Reach/MCCC on their work.
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Maxwell Jacob Friedman
leads to fear. Fear leads to xbox.
Problem is the first 6 on the list have actually made bangers, the bottom half....lol nah bruhFirst party studios that outsource work are either inept or too slow.
*Checks list of studios that fall into this category
Damn:
- Naughty Dog
- Guerrilla Games
- Sony Santa Monica
- Playground Games
- Insomniac Games
- Sucker Punch Studios
- Bend Studio
- Rare
- 343i
- The Coalition
And thats just off head, if I sit and actually get on Artstation I bet I could find an outsourcing studio or artist for every first party game released this generation.
Shit every pretty much first part studio must be inept or too slow, what the fuck is going on at all these studios, how are they still even employed......ohh because they outsource their work to be able to finish these massive projects in a semblence of a timely manner, nah that couldnt be it.....they are just inept or too slow.
Maxwell Jacob Friedman
leads to fear. Fear leads to xbox.
Shouldnt be the one higher up going to studios and checking in and sayiing what looks like shit much like how yoshida kept checking in on god of war 2018?
if Phil aka that man saw the inifinite gameplay before they showed it off at their showing and thought that was ok to show he's part of the problem.
Lets not toss juvenile insults at eachother and at devs. Use substance in your arguments please.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Excuse me?
What are you in disagreement with here?
You are gonna have to give me alot more than lol nah bruh to get your point across....if you dont have one, dont bother replying.
I see the notification and assume its about to be something worth my time.
Maxwell Jacob Friedman
leads to fear. Fear leads to xbox.
The bottom half havent made any good shit, that more clear for you, fuckn hell bro
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This is looking like a disaster.
PresetError
Neophyte
One thing is for sure: all the recent info around Halo Infinite points to the game not being on the final stage of development but changing its course dramatially. Coming late 2021 at the earliest.