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[JonSnowball]

I know how the game looks like. It looks amazing and better than in your screenshots, that's for sure. Still, it's nowhere close to that render from 2018.

Lighting, materials, textures, object complexity, character models, animations. All is better.

Still, it's nowhere close to that render from 2018.

render

 

[sendit]

I know how the game looks like. It looks amazing and better than in your screenshots, that's for sure. Still, it's nowhere close to that render from 2018.

Lighting, materials, textures, object complexity, character models, animations. All is better.

Did they even advertise the E3 2018 trailer as in engine or gameplay?

 

[MidGenRefresh]

JonSnowball

Did they even advertise the E3 2018 trailer as in engine or gameplay?

Heavily curated CGI render that has nothing to do with the final product (locations, characters, animations, interactions, gameplay elements) presented as a GAME ENGINE FOOTAGE.

I don't understand why people are so defensive. I'm probably one of the biggest Cyberpunk 2077 fans on this forum but even I can call bullshit when I see it.

 

[tvdaXD]

You can't possibly be serious.

This is how game ACTUALLY looked in August 2019:

Yet somehow in 2018 it looked like this:

Yo do realize you're comparing in development in game footage to a CGI trailer right?

 

[sendit]

JonSnowball



Heavily curated CGI render that has nothing to do with the final product (locations, characters, animations, interactions, gameplay elements) presented as a GAME ENGINE FOOTAGE.

I don't understand why people are so defensive. I'm probably one of the biggest Cyberpunk 2077 fans on this forum but even I can call bullshit when I see it.

I'm here for the facts, where does it actually state that it was presented as game engine footage? I couldn't find it. Do you have a source?

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Yo do realize you're comparing in development in game footage to a CGI trailer right?

I'm but Guilty_AI seems not to realize it because my post was in reply to his post where he said:

I don't know what to say then. Asset quality, lightining, even the skybox looks similar to me.
Its really just thes scenes that aren't present (thus why they probably decided to call it "game engine footage", game still was full 2 years away after all). Are you sure you're not just mixing graphics with photography?

I'm here for the facts, where does it actually state that it was presented as game engine footage? I couldn't find it. Do you have a source?

You couldn't find it? Check the trailer itself. It's there, in big, capital letters.

 

[Shubh_C63]

Am a fan of CDPR since W2. Always had faith in this company's vision and balls to tell gritty stories, and am glad to see these numbers.

No excuse for outright lying on CP77 marketing though. but they are still trying to make better AAA games than other devs.

 

[sendit]

I'm but Guilty_AI seems not to realize it because my post was in reply to his post where he said:





You couldn't find it? Check the trailer itself. It's there, in big, capital letters.

You know you literally could have won this argument by just posting the timestamp or screenshot? Could have saved the headache of questioning you as this scene with "Game Engine Footage" lasted a good 3 seconds in that trailer.

 

[Denton]

That e3 trailer obviously is done in engine with real assets. CGI trailers look very different. I had no idea anyone would even think otherwise, wtf. That said, it is cinematic trailer meant to showcase the world and its vibe, not gameplay one, and it is obvious some stuff changed, as it always does during gamedev.

 

[OZ9000]

The most annoy thing about replaying Cyberpunk is the brain dance segments. Literally on rails segments that add nothing to the gameplay. Just make it a cutscene.

To be honest most of the game just feels like one long cutscene.

I generally don't play RPG games but it's getting boring fast.

So much slow walking. Wait for this. Wait for that. Braindances are also a chore as you mention.

 

[nightmare-slain]

seen some rumours that the next patch is going to be titled "Cyberpunk 2.0"

this is likely the one that will have the police and vehicle combat improvements. no doubt there will be more changes so hopefully it is a kind of reboot of the game.

the expansion is rumoured to be 25 hours long and will have more choices/branches for dialogue and quests compared to the main game.

 

[Dr. Suchong]

Just jumped in on Ps5.
Very impressed with what I've played so far.
Scratches that Deus ex itch.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Am a fan of CDPR since W2. Always had faith in this company's vision and balls to tell gritty stories, and am glad to see these numbers.

No excuse for outright lying on CP77 marketing though. but they are still trying to make better AAA games than other devs.

Yeah, I like Witcher 3 better (scratches that CEE itch you only have there), but I cannot deny CP2077 is a good game, some of the quests (Johnny assaulting Arasaka tower) are memorable, but don't quite reach the highs of the Baron in W3. They could have cut the number of NPCs in half but made them more complex.

 

[timothet]

Some people don't know difference between game engine and gameplay footage. Both are rendered using game engine, but former is using asset, postprocessing etc. of much higher fidelity than regular gameplay(similar how games like Forza have simplified car models for regular gameplay and high-poly models for photo mode). You can tell that the 2018/2019 trailers are using game engine as they have DOF and motion blur artifacts. It's not using offline renderer aka CGI.

 

[GymWolf]

People with an ND avatar talking shit about cd project lying with their reveal trailer is never gonna be not funny.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Some people don't know difference between game engine and gameplay footage. Both are rendered using game engine, but former is using asset, postprocessing etc. of much higher fidelity than regular gameplay(similar how games like Forza have simplified car models for regular gameplay and high-poly models for photo mode). You can tell that the 2018/2019 trailers are using game engine as they have DOF and motion blur artifacts. It's not using offline renderer aka CGI.

The main problem with 2018 trailer is that their engine is clearly not capable of producing these kind of results in real time. Of course they knew it but still decided to roll with it.

• Traffic density in the first shot of the city from the train
• Smooth as butter character animations
• Detail of each and every character (look at V's hand when he reloads his tech rifle)
• Micro detail of things like newspapers (which in final game you can't even read), the fucking ramen soup (which in final game is a flat texture), all the clutter in trauma team shot

That said, I still think it's the best looking game right now and it's my most played game in my adult life. But that trailer... that trailer is bullshit.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

BTW, 87% positive reviews from the last 30 days on Steam. Nice and well deserved!

 

[gaming_again]

seen some rumours that the next patch is going to be titled "Cyberpunk 2.0"

this is likely the one that will have the police and vehicle combat improvements. no doubt there will be more changes so hopefully it is a kind of reboot of the game.

the expansion is rumoured to be 25 hours long and will have more choices/branches for dialogue and quests compared to the main game.

Cool. I just wonder how it will be integrated. Hopefully you can enter the DLC from the moment Hanako is waiting for you by her piano.

I've probably somewhat foolishly started a new game recently and I don't want to have to go AGAIN in a few months...

 

[timothet]

The main problem with 2018 trailer is that their engine is clearly not capable of producing these kind of results in real time. Of course they knew it but still decided to roll with it.

• Traffic density in the first shot of the city from the train
• Smooth as butter character animations
• Detail of each and every character (look at V's hand when he reloads his tech rifle)
• Micro detail of things like newspapers (which in final game you can't even read), the fucking ramen soup (which in final game is a flat texture), all the clutter in trauma team shot

That said, I still think it's the best looking game right now and it's my most played game in my adult life. But that trailer... that trailer is bullshit.

It's a cinematic trailer, not gameplay. It's pretty common these days to do it using game-engine with high fidelity assets/effects instead of full CGI. I don't know why it's so hard to understand.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

It's a cinematic trailer, not gameplay. It's pretty common these days to do it using game-engine with high fidelity assets/effects instead of full CGI. I don't know why it's so hard to understand.

These assets don't exist in the actual game and were made just for the trailer. Why is it so hard to understand?

Why not use in-game assets for an in-engine trailer? You really need to dig deep to find information that this trailer was made based on concept art and it's not representing the actual game world. None of what you see is in the game in that form. It's shady at best.

 

[Guilty_AI]

The main problem with 2018 trailer is that their engine is clearly not capable of producing these kind of results in real time. Of course they knew it but still decided to roll with it.

• Traffic density in the first shot of the city from the train

Crowds

Scared crowds

• Detail of each and every character (look at V's hand when he reloads his tech rifle)

Random ripperdoc

V's hand

• Micro detail of things like newspapers (which in final game you can't even read), the fucking ramen soup (which in final game is a flat texture), all the clutter in trauma team shot

Yeah, you'll find lower detailed stuff in the game, just like how you'll also find higher fidelity stuff.

Of course they'll pick the best stuff to put on a showcase trailer. Thing is, high quality models are in the game, just not everywhere.

• Smooth as butter character animations

Not a good point to compare. Trailer uses crafted cutscenes at the best angles, perfect to hide imperfections like many games with cutscenes do.
Game is all in first person, its easy to spot animation transitions which is when you'll see issues.

That said, I still think it's the best looking game right now and it's my most played game in my adult life. But that trailer... that trailer is bullshit.

You're still mixing photography with graphics.
The reason you think that trailer looks better isn't because they're supposedly 'lying' about it being rendered in the engine, its because those are carefully crafted shots, with light and angles just in the correct places for maximum visual impact and naturally only using the higher quality assets selection. Point is, that is not CGI, its exactly what they said it is, a in-engine footage and a target render for the game.


Look, i don't like defending corporations, and even this game for me is a 4/5, not a masterpiece just a great game from an underappreciated genre in the medium.

However i'll call bullshit when i see it. The only things you can hold CDPR accountable for being deceptive about is the buggy state of the released game (though i can't exactly say you couldn't see it coming given the delays and their history), and the state of the games on last gen consoles. Thats it.

Any other 'criticism' regarding their 'lies' i see on the internet sound like angry mob rhetoric, and despite asking for proofs that are supposedly obvious, most that came up was this "in-engine" trailer, which they said very clearly wasn't gameplay footage and was just for showcasing the engine, and which visuals even hold up to the final game when put under scrutiny, as i'm demonstrating, despite it didn't even needing to.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

You're still mixing photography with graphics.
The reason you think that trailer looks better isn't because they're supposedly 'lying' about it being rendered in the engine, its because those are carefully crafted shots, with light and angles just in the correct places for maximum visual impact and naturally only using the higher quality assets selection. Point is, that is not CGI, its exactly what they said it is, a in-engine footage and a target render for the game.

Cool shots but still nowhere close to the fidelity of that engine target render thing, whatever you want to call it.

I'm not mixing up anything. The reason why that trailer look so much different from the actual game is because it was created based on concept art and not based on actual in-game assets that they had at the time.

To quote CDPR:

This trailer is a product of the dedication and hard work from our CD PROJEKT RED team and is based on concept art we’ve developed over the years.

Cyberpunk 2077 E3 2018 Trailer Frame by Frame EP01

Night City holds just as many stories as it does citizens, and almost every scene in the E3 2018 trailer tells a story of its own.

www.cyberpunk.net

However i'll call bullshit when i see it. The only things you can hold CDPR accountable for being deceptive about is the buggy state of the released game (though i can't exactly say you couldn't see it coming given the delays and their history), and the state of the games on last gen consoles. Thats it.

I'm sure there's more. Buggy state is one. Absolute abysmal performance on last gen hardware is another. Marketing advertising game as something that it isn't is another.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Cool shots but still nowhere close to the fidelity of that engine target render thing, whatever you want to call it.

They do, i really don't know what you're seeing thats so different. Even some of the NPCs that appear in the trailer are in the game. Texture, assets, lightning, crowds, LOD, all similar.

I'm not mixing up anything. The reason why that trailer look so much different from the actual game is because it was created based on concept art and not based on actual in-game assets that they had at the time.

To quote CDPR:

Cyberpunk 2077 E3 2018 Trailer Frame by Frame EP01

Night City holds just as many stories as it does citizens, and almost every scene in the E3 2018 trailer tells a story of its own.

www.cyberpunk.net

Wait, so you're telling me they *shocked* never 'lied' about anything after all?

I'm sure there's more. Buggy state is one. Absolute abysmal performance on last gen hardware is another. Marketing advertising game as something that it isn't is another.

So you're "sure" huh? Yet can't show me anything concrete to display this strong conviction. Sums up about 90% of the criticism i see online for this game.

This case has been long closed mate. Call me again when you have something concrete to show and not just another one of these "obvious convictions".

 

[timothet]

These assets don't exist in the actual game and were made just for the trailer. Why is it so hard to understand?

Why not use in-game assets for an in-engine trailer? You really need to dig deep to find information that this trailer was made based on concept art and it's not representing the actual game world. None of what you see is in the game in that form. It's shady at best.

Ok, there is no point in arguing with you as you clearly have problem wrapping your mind around difference in marketing material vs game.

 

[Fake]

People with an ND avatar talking shit about cd project lying with their reveal trailer is never gonna be not funny.

Is kinda ironic, isn't?

'Of course they sell because discount.'
'The company lied to us.'
'Trailers are fake.'

 

[MidGenRefresh]

So you're "sure" huh? Yet can't show me anything concrete to display this strong conviction. Sums up about 90% of the criticism i see online for this game.

This case has been long closed mate. Call me again when you have something concrete to show and not just another one of these "obvious convictions".

What? What? I just listed 3 things that are indisputable:

1. They lied about the bugs and tried to hide it by restricting reviewers to only show their pre-recorded footage, NDAs and strict review embargo.
2. They lied about console performance and not allowed reviewers to play console version. They showed game running on PS4 / Xbox One in short and very heavily directed footage.
3. Marketing tried to sell the game as action adventure GTA-like game with bullshit features like vehicle customisation, police chases etc.

What of the above is false? Add all the broken promises (online mode), failure to deliver on time (road-map for the game) and there's your clusterfuck of a launch. I'm just happy that they are slowly recovering.

Ok, there is no point in arguing with you as you clearly have problem wrapping your mind around difference in marketing material vs game.

Ok, cool, cool, cool. Bye.

 

[Guilty_AI]

What? What? I just listed 3 things that are indisputable:

1. They lied about the bugs and tried to hide it by restricting reviewers to only show their pre-recorded footage, NDAs and strict review embargo.
2. They lied about console performance and not allowed reviewers to play console version. They showed game running on PS4 / Xbox One in short and very heavily directed footage.

No mate, you're repeating the only two things i've already said they can, and were, held accountable for. I'm asking for things besides these. I really want to see those 'mountains of lies' people keep throwing around when talking about this game.

1. Marketing tried to sell the game as action adventure GTA-like game with bullshit features like vehicle customisation, police chases etc.

They did not. Unless you can show me proof, a really scarce resource it seems.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

They did not. Unless you can show me proof, a really scarse resource it seems.

Go to their YouTube channel, sort by most watched and see for yourself. I don't have time to go over all that stuff right now. You clearly did not follow the development and marketing cycle as close as I did. Especially language used in deep dive videos is ultra marketing bullshit.

Car chases? Shooting from cars? Is that in the game? I don't think so.




"Powerful engines, exchangeable parts - perfect for tuning" - what tuning?
"Street racing, running from the NCPD... with these high power beasts you will have only respect" - running from NCPD = driving alone few blocks
"True automotive icons" - 911 and what else?


I don't care about any of these features but a lot of people did. And they expected an action-packed game like GTA.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

I don't care about any of these features but a lot of people did. And they expected an action-packed game like GTA.

People need to learn not to trust marketing and assess things with a critical eye. I heard it is helpful not only in videogames, but also in real life.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Go to their YouTube channel, sort by most watched and see for yourself. I don't have time to go over all that stuff right now. You clearly did not follow the development and marketing cycle as close as I did. Especially language used in deep dive videos is ultra marketing bullshit.

Car chases? Shooting from cars? Is that in the game? I don't think so.

It is. In missions. But if you're gonna count that as a 'lie', might as well claim every dev using cutscenes or events from missions for marketing purposes is lying.

"Powerful engines, exchangeable parts - perfect for tuning" - what tuning?
"Street racing, running from the NCPD... with these high power beasts you will have only respect" - running from NCPD = driving alone few blocks
"True automotive icons" - 911 and what else?

Nowehere in this trailer they talk about the game having car customization. They're specifically talking about in-game brands and each of these brands characteristics, one of these brands being a type of car that has exchanble parts as part of the in-game lore (and you can indeed find those cars in multiple variations), also whole tons of nothing phrases like "take you to places you've never dreamed" which "running from the cops" is included.

This is part of what i mean by "angry internet rethoric", taking vague phrases and random scenes and proceeding to interpret them however they feel like, then start considering that random interpretation they made in their minds as a "promise".
You can do that with any game thats isn't strictly using common gameplay footage for marketing. You think thats wrong? Ok, its a valid position to have, when talking about the industry. We're then dwelving in another discussion entirely that goes far beyond the scope of this one game.

I don't care about any of these features but a lot of people did. And they expected an action-packed game like GTA.

And absolutely nothing of this implies this game is trying to sell itself as GTA. Having action, cars, guns and crimes (which CP does) doesn't automatically turn a game into GTA.

 

[zephiross]

I think the biggest problem that the game suffered from (appart from the buggy launch) is that a lot of people forgot that it was "just a game" out of hype and were expecting the fucking matrix.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

It is. In missions. But if you're gonna count that as a 'lie', might as well claim every dev using cutscenes or events from missions for marketing purposes is lying.

There are exactly 0 car chases in this game where you're behind the wheel. You can't dive and shoot at the same time. Races are not races because there's no AI so other cars just teleport around to catch up to you. You played the game, right?

Nowehere in this trailer they talk about the game having car customization. They're specifically talking about in-game brands and each of these brands characteristics, one of these brands being a type of car that has exchanble parts as part of the in-game lore (and you can indeed find those cars in multiple variations), also whole tons of nothing phrases like "take you to places you've never dreamed" which "running from the cops" is included.

This is part of what i mean by "angry internet rethoric", taking vague phrases and random scenes and proceeding to interpret them however they feel like, then start considering that random interpretation they made in their minds as a "promise".
You can do that with any game thats isn't strictly using common gameplay footage for marketing. You think thats wrong? Ok, its a valid position to have, when talking about the industry. We're then dwelving in another discussion entirely that goes far beyond the scope of this one game.

Marketing was extremely disingenuous. They used these vague words on purpose. Why mention running from the cops in fast cars when you don't have game logic to support it? Why mention that this specific car brand is perfect for tuning if there are not gameplay elements build around it. Why show spectacular car chases where you drive and shoot at the same time in your commercials? They targeted that GTA 5/Online audience with their bullshit. I never said they PROMISED these things. In interviews with game creators (Sasko and the rest), they specifically said that for example car customisation won't be in the game. But to say that marketing was 100% honest and not tried to trick people into believing that game has features akin to GTA style game, it's just fucking stupid.

 

[Guilty_AI]

I think the biggest problem that the game suffered from (appart from the buggy launch) is that a lot of people forgot that it was "just a game" out of hype and were expecting the fucking matrix.

Indeed, which is part of the reason i dislike the hype industry surrounding AAA games. I'd hope stuff like this and NMS would make some people realize this, but no, its all 'evil CDPR' when its an industry-wide problem

 

[Guilty_AI]

There are exactly 0 car chases in this game where you're behind the wheel.

There are.

You can't dive and shoot at the same time. Races are not races because there's no AI so other cars just teleport around to catch up to you.

Dive and shoot? You mean sliding around while shooting? There are body perks for those, and even if there weren't its reaching the nitpicking level of complaint.

You played the game, right?

+200 hours

Marketing was extremely disingenuous. They used these vague words on purpose.

Congratulations, you described marketing. Lets topple down the game industry together and all the things plaguing it.

Why mention running from the cops in fast cars when you don't have game logic to support it?

Cause it sounds cool, its how marketing works.

Why mention that this specific car brand is perfect for tuning if there are not gameplay elements build around it.

World building.

Why show spectacular car chases where you drive and shoot at the same time in your commercials?

To efficiently show you can drive cars and shoot guns in the game without passing the imposed TV time limit.

They targeted that GTA 5/Online audience with their bullshit.

They did not.

I never said they PROMISED these things. In interviews with game creators (Sasko and the rest), they specifically said that for example car customisation won't be in the game.

No, you just heavily implied they heavily implied

But to say that marketing was 100% honest

Marketing isn't 100% honest by nature. I again invite you to topple down the industry, instead of pointlessly hyper-focusing in this one specific case.

and not tried to trick people into believing that game has features akin to GTA style game, it's just fucking stupid.

It does have features akin to a GTA game, like city, guns, cars, etc. It isn't a GTA like game tho, and was never sold as such.

 

[SSfox]

Great news, despite messy launch but the core game is awesome. CPDR are one of the very few western devs that still know how to make real games.

 

[winjer]

 

[yamaci17]

damn new wardrobe system is super cool

 

[JayK47]

Edgerunners really did give the game a huge boost. It has been a top seller for weeks now, even at full retail. Great show and great game.

 

[SpearFist]

Banned for talking sense, lmaoo. That place always delivers.

How much CDPR must have done for the communities with the donations these dumb nuts cant even do 1%..