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News CD Projekt faces a second class-action lawsuit over Cyberpunk 2077

Miles708

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I don't really see the lies. People can also wait for the release and check how the game is, rather than pre-ordering and then complaining "they lied to me I am going to sue them".

I don't see how you can deliver a truly ambitious game with zero bug and all the possible content on day one.

There is a moment when you manage huge projects like these where you need to deliver something, to be able to move forward.That's what they did. For skeptical players, it was as easy as not pre-ordering or not buying. Those that were not aware of the poor performance were able to get unconditional refunds.

I usually share your same sentiments, in this case though i feel like good faith has been thrown out of the window.

To clarify, the PS4/XONE versions being so problematic and underperforming is not the problem.
The problem is in the extent CDProjekt have gone out of its way (using embargoes, takedowns, preventing media from showing their own footage and, yes, releasing false statements) to prevent anyone from knowing the actual state of the project up until the release day.

Making games is hard, making big games is even harder. This is understandable.
Showing false footage and releasing an "oops, actually..." statement after being caught, it's not understandable. That's where the good faith ends, honestly.
 
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I have so many questions about what's happening here 😂
 
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Fake

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I can't remember. Did Bethesda try to hide Xbox 360 and PS3 gameplay before launch because they knew it was shit? Was journalists allowed to use their own review footage of Skyrim? Did Bethesda go out of their way to pull early leaks?

Did gaming journalist are some sort of people without free will?

They can both refuse or either decrease the score.
 

Rheon

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oh but you are omitting the most important part of them all

the consumers complained. which led CDPR to offer refunds to everyone no questions asked. that led to sony removing the game from their store and microsoft issuing a warning statement. and that is what made investors sue. they just care about ROI not players complaining. or did you see anyone suing EA for Anthem?

I'm convinced you're a paid CDPR shill.

You're in every thread spouting the same BS.
 

Keihart

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Jun 23, 2013
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Makes sense, it's pretty shocking watching all the promotional material previous to the game release and what was told at events about the game compared with the final product, a shame really but nobody forced them to overhype the game or make unplayable versions of it.
 
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cireza

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I usually share your same sentiments, in this case though i feel like good faith has been thrown out of the window.

To clarify, the PS4/XONE versions being so problematic and underperforming is not the problem.
The problem is in the extent CDProjekt have gone out of its way (using embargoes, takedowns, preventing media from showing their own footage and, yes, releasing false statements) to prevent anyone from knowing the actual state of the project up until the release day.

Making games is hard, making big games is even harder. This is understandable.
Showing false footage and releasing an "oops, actually..." statement after being caught, it's not understandable. That's where the good faith ends, honestly.
Well I understand that people are upset. I think I even remember posting a kind of "lie" from the PR myself in this forum (he was saying Old Gen consoles perform incredibly well if I remember).

So there were some missteps certainly, but we need to be careful with what we ask for. Because the consequence of these events could simply mean that CDPR gives up on games like Cyberpunk and the Witcher.
 
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Panajev2001a

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Well I understand that people are upset. I think I even remember posting a kind of "lie" from the PR myself in this forum (he was saying Old Gen consoles perform incredibly well if I remember).

So there were some missteps certainly, but we need to be careful with what we ask for. Because the consequence of these events could simply mean that CDPR gives up on games like Cyberpunk and the Witcher.
I think they can still push the envelope without repeating the same pre and post launch woes of CP2077: it feeds into keeping them doing the same or worse if we fall into the “I need to choose between the games I crave being made and users not being misled into buying broken product intentionally”. That is a false dichotomy.
 
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Hoppa

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Good. Hopefully next time they actually research the consoles they're developing and marketing their games for instead of finding out their product runs like shit on release day with everyone else
 
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martino

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Emotional crybabies gather !
The product works. It just doesn't fill your hype, has bugs and doesn't please you brand worshiping desires at what it shows in the war.
Good luck to win on this basis. In the end it's just lawyers who will make good money thanks to poor human emotions.
 
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GHG

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Good.

One more step towards a world where every single AAA game is a linear cinematic emotional pretentious third person shooter.

That's pretty much what this game is, only in first person.
 
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EDMIX

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Makes sense, it's pretty shocking watching all the promotional material previous to the game release and what was told at events about the game compared with the final product, a shame really but nobody forced them to overhype the game or make unplayable versions of it.

Agreed.

They easily could have removed those videos from their official YouTube page and make a video simply statingt those elements are no longer in the game and its no longer an RPG, instead of quietly removing "RPG" from their site and other listings.

They basically allowed marketing material basically marketing a game that doesn't even exist in that form. They knew exactly what they where doing. For god sakes videos leading up to the launch have shit in them not even in the final game, my god..THE GAME ITSELF HAS MENUS AND TEXT ABOUT SHIT THAT DOENS"T EXITS IN THE GAME. So they cut content 1 month before release or did that shit ever exist at all? I understand things get cut, nothing but greed stopped them from making a video simply detailing that the game has changed.

This simply doesn't sound like a mistake or accident, it sounds like it was deliberate to fool people to pre-ordering based on trailers that they likely had zero plans to really put in the game.

I usually share your same sentiments, in this case though i feel like good faith has been thrown out of the window.

To clarify, the PS4/XONE versions being so problematic and underperforming is not the problem.
The problem is in the extent CDProjekt have gone out of its way (using embargoes, takedowns, preventing media from showing their own footage and, yes, releasing false statements) to prevent anyone from knowing the actual state of the project up until the release day.

Making games is hard, making big games is even harder. This is understandable.
Showing false footage and releasing an "oops, actually..." statement after being caught, it's not understandable. That's where the good faith ends, honestly.

Completely agreed. That is how I see this. I get things get removed from games, is there a reason why they told us about trains being removed but simply "forgot" to make a video or official statement that it was no longer a "rpg" and now a "action adventure"? Where are those cops that you can "bribe"? It seems like they made a choice to omit a fuck ton of information to keep people buying a game that didn't exist. The lawsuits are deserving and I feel they will continue as they are going to likely deal with the Polish Government on top of Sony or MS or both suing.

So they accidently told reviewers not to use their own footage too or?

When people look back and talk about downgrades and scams, lets remember Watchdogs 1 has a demo, Anthem for fucks sakes had a beta, The Division 1 and 2 had betas where you fully could play and see what the fuck the game was before release.... if they wanted to fucking scam and hide shit soooooooo badly, they would do like what CDPR do.

Lie now, apologize later and be like "oops" and or "ZOMG we didn't know it was downgraded until we took your money.....our badz free stickers for all, here is some cut con....I mean dlc that is free".
 
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Miles708

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So there were some missteps certainly, but we need to be careful with what we ask for. Because the consequence of these events could simply mean that CDPR gives up on games like Cyberpunk and the Witcher.
That's a possibility, and despite the situation, I'd hate for CDProjekt to just give up their projects.

Honestly though, I hope this will be a "turning point" for the company, to start having an healthier management and more sensible development cycle/pipeline.

If No Man's Sky made a spectacular comeback, certainly so can they.
 
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Panajev2001a

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Emotional crybabies gather !
The product works. It just doesn't fill your hype, has bugs and doesn't please you brand worshiping desires
This seems more brand worshipping / corporate apologism than what you are accusing others of though... not sure which line they could have crossed to deserve more universal criticism in this case.
 
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Sentenza

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You know, of ALL the people who may have legitimate reasons of discontent about Cyberpunk (I still think it's not a playable form currently, and I tried it on a fairly beefy PC). I'm not really sure why "investors" are the ones bitching so much.
It's not like they didn't make a fuckload of money out of this.
 

Panajev2001a

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You know, of ALL the people who may have legitimate reasons of discontent about Cyberpunk (I still think it's not a playable form currently, and I tried it on a fairly beefy PC). I'm not really sure why "investors" are the ones bitching so much.
It's not like they didn't make a fuckload of money out of this.
Thanks to how the launch was handled they lost money on refunds and brand issues damaged the stocks.
 

Ar¢tos

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To look at this and say, "Good" or "They deserved it" is pretty shitty IMO. 🤷‍♂️

Sure, they had people in higher seats that made promises or comments regarding things that weren't delivered. But those people don't make up the entire company that worked on it. It's just ALL over news outlets so of course lawyers are frothing at the gash to get involved in something like this. But I really don't see this going far as CDPR offered refunds through various outlets to those that feel they deserve one or want one.

The ONLY "good" thing out of this is that it hopefully gets other developers and publishers to ENSURE their products are READY for release through and through. At least to hopefully avoid situations like the ones revolving around CP:2077.

But who knows, we've seen situations like this or similar in the past and this still happened.
Because forcing reviewers to use stock footage and hiding the state of the base console versions is what good honest companies do, right?
They knew how broken the game was and decided to release it anyway instead of delaying it 3-4 months again.
They need to be punished for that, otherwise it Is an incentive for other companies to do the same, as plenty already do it with no shame and get away with it.
 

martino

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This seems more brand worshipping / corporate apologism than what you are accusing others of though... not sure which line they could have crossed to deserve more universal criticism in this case.
I will never say anything around the release of this game was right (even more with that much preorders) but that doesn't make the game utter shit or non functional like people struggling to keep their emotions in check or with other agendas claim.
criticism =/= hyperbolic emotional reactions
and because of them justice will waste time because with the American way of doing it lawyer can make money from the situation.

edit : and for the story i've spend more time on whats-app with my friend (most of them playing on ps4) trying to make them look beyond their appreciation of the game and be more critic about this release than the reverse here.
The funny thing being my grounded reality that is not relevant in the gran scheme of things show me the opposite of the vocal reaction on internet....
Imo this still makes me aware and not totally disconnected from it
things are more somewhere in the middle and I'm even more convinced from all the chance i take to get feed back there silent majority has not the views internet vocal people would want them to have (which is sad because this release need to be criticized but not in an emotional hyperbolic way like it was and for the reasons too much people has done it)
 
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Dr.Morris79

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Nov 19, 2018
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I have so many questions about what's happening here 😂
It's not really interesting. It's just the typical skank looking woman you get in my town. Cant be arsed to get dressed, too lazy to use and brain power to carry the bag properly and you can bet your arse she walked off and left that shit everywhere even though she lives there. A fucking utter slob, if you will..

I see it daily here. It's depressing as fuck.
 
Mar 6, 2016
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Just finished watching the crobat video and as I suspected the game didn’t have choices, choice matters and branching options that impact the story. The game peaked at that introduction mission with the millsec bitch and I’ve yet to see any choices such as that in my 10 hours. Even then it’s all the same outcome. Story wise the game is a con.
 
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GHG

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You know, of ALL the people who may have legitimate reasons of discontent about Cyberpunk (I still think it's not a playable form currently, and I tried it on a fairly beefy PC). I'm not really sure why "investors" are the ones bitching so much.
It's not like they didn't make a fuckload of money out of this.

That's dependent on what date they made their investment. Unless you happened to buy at the previous significant dip of 216.10 PLN on the 12th March 2020 (or prior to mid 2019) you are likely to have made a loss. Basically if you made an investment based on the hype in the run up to the release of this game and their statements prior to the release then you'll be in the red.

If we look at statements from the first lawsuit all of the dates and the statements that accompany those dates are outlined (pages 5-9):











When it's laid out as it is in the lawsuit it's pretty damning.

They didn't only lie to gamers, they also lied to their investors during their earnings calls.
 
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FranXico

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I can't remember. Did Bethesda try to hide Xbox 360 and PS3 gameplay before launch because they knew it was shit? Was journalists allowed to use their own review footage of Skyrim? Did Bethesda go out of their way to pull early leaks?
Well, they knew the PS3 version was dogshit and said "it also looks great".
 

FranXico

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oh but you are omitting the most important part of them all

the consumers complained. which led CDPR to offer refunds to everyone no questions asked. that led to sony removing the game from their store and microsoft issuing a warning statement. and that is what made investors sue. they just care about ROI not players complaining. or did you see anyone suing EA for Anthem?
Why choose to only send reviewers PC version codes prior to release? Why were they not even allowed to show their own gameplay footage in their reviews?

Offering refunds no questions asked, for a limited time period, long after taking pre-orders and knowing that most people still wouldn't ask for a refund doesn't sound that honest, considering how the game was presented and what a big difference there was between what was promised and what was released.
 
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MiguelItUp

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Because forcing reviewers to use stock footage and hiding the state of the base console versions is what good honest companies do, right?
They knew how broken the game was and decided to release it anyway instead of delaying it 3-4 months again.
They need to be punished for that, otherwise it Is an incentive for other companies to do the same, as plenty already do it with no shame and get away with it.
Of course that's not what "honest companies do", but there also aren't many honest companies in video games. Especially ones that are AAA. They want people to buy their games, and that's it. There are multiple employees there that had no say in any of it that are being affected by such a thing. The decision makers and the ones that made the comments are the true ones at fault. CDPR have already been punished enough for everything that happened, and it's completely understandable why. Again, these lawsuits most likely won't go too far. Especially because of the refund situation. Which was very likely done to cover their ass as opposed to being "the goodness of their heart."
 

Mahavastu

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That's dependent on what date they made their investment. Unless you happened to buy at the previous significant dip of 216.10 PLN on the 12th March 2020 (or prior to mid 2019) you are likely to have made a loss. Basically if you made an investment based on the hype in the run up to the release of this game and their statements prior to the release then you'll be in the red.

If we look at statements from the first lawsuit all of the dates and the statements that accompany those dates are outlined (pages 5-9):











When it's laid out as it is in the lawsuit it's pretty damning.

They didn't only lie to gamers, they also lied to their investors during their earnings calls.
for me it looks like if CDPR hires good lawyers they have good chances of getting out of this unharmed.
 

Aegsorciten

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Hopefully they leave the console market after all this, and release their games on PC only.
 
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GHG

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for me it looks like if CDPR hires good lawyers they have good chances of getting out of this unharmed.

On what basis?

The statements made by them pre and post release directly contradict one another.
 

balls of snow

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I love it when investors sue other investors to get more money. How to afford that third Porshe otherwise. Capitalism baby!
 

knguyen

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As long as people keep preordering games, companies will keep bullshitting all the way to the release day to take in as much cash as possible, after that, when things get exposed, a nice apology letter with get things calmed down. I still don't get the idea or preordering games, it's not like they won't be everywhere on the shelves. why can't we wait a few days? especially with "release first, fix later" trend these days.
 

Cyberpunkd

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You know, of ALL the people who may have legitimate reasons of discontent about Cyberpunk (I still think it's not a playable form currently, and I tried it on a fairly beefy PC). I'm not really sure why "investors" are the ones bitching so much.
It's not like they didn't make a fuckload of money out of this.
This will be helpful:



Notice the peak date and stock value.
 
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OnionSnake

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They definitely lied to consumers and investors, glad I never bought into this companies stock like some friends of mine did. Shits insane
 

Cyberpunkd

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When it's laid out as it is in the lawsuit it's pretty damning.

They didn't only lie to gamers, they also lied to their investors during their earnings calls.
Those are fairly common statements made on an earnings call - none of that is definite or subject to any sort of objective metric. Moreover (I cannot listen to the call right now) each earnings call is normally proceeded with a legal mention regarding 'forward looking statements' and nothing said on the call can be construed as a basis for investment decisions.

It would have been different if it was a blatant lie e.g. 'we had 20 million preorders of Cyberpunk 2077'.
 

harmny

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They definitely lied to consumers and investors, glad I never bought into this companies stock like some friends of mine did. Shits insane

zoom out. the stock is still 10x the price it was when the witcher 3 released. i don't know when your friends bought but that's just the market for you. people here call me cdpr shill and not even i would have bought stock at 400. that is like buying bitcoin at 40k and complaining when it goes down. their stock fell 20% after the witcher 3 launch and that was a successful launch
 
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GHG

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Those are fairly common statements made on an earnings call - none of that is definite or subject to any sort of objective metric. Moreover (I cannot listen to the call right now) each earnings call is normally proceeded with a legal mention regarding 'forward looking statements' and nothing said on the call can be construed as a basis for investment decisions.

I would suggest you listen to (or read transcripts for) earnings calls from other videogames (or even software) companies. Definitive statements about game performance or the "state of development" are never made for this exact reason. If an answer is given it will be vague but more often than not they will decline to comment due to the nature of software development. Even companies who make hardware will often decline to make statements about products that are yet to be released.

The fact that they were willing to answer the questions and the way in which they answered them tells me they have been poorly advised on this (if at all). Statements made in quarterly earnings calls can and will be used against you.
 
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Cyberpunkd

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The fact that they were willing to answer the questions and the way in which they answered them tells me they have been poorly advised on this (if at all). Statements made in quarterly earnings calls can and will be used against you.
Being Polish I agree with you 100% :messenger_grinning_sweat: Working in Polish corpos, good times:

blade runner GIF
 
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Sentenza

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This will be helpful:



Notice the peak date and stock value.
"Stock value" is not real value.
The company's real worth comes from how much money it makes from sales, not from what the "market" predicts it will perform with some sort of gambling.
The game sold 13 million copies and possibly more in the following weeks, which means that it easily recouped the investment costs with additional revenues to spare.
 
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Samus Aran

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Dec 29, 2014
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Damn. Yeah it's bad to withheld a game for the public, but to the investors, and then straight up lie to their faces... were they high?

Before the game was released:




After the game was released:



oh come on jim carrey GIF