• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Castlevania Season 4 |OT| Till Death Do Us Part (Out now on Netflix)

CGiRanger

Banned
Netflix US Direct Link: https://www.netflix.com/title/80095241
Synopsis: "Wallachia collapses into chaos as factions clash: some attempting to take control, others attempting to bring Dracula back from the dead. Nobody is who they seem, and nobody can be trusted. These are the end times."



Previous thread about the Final Season

Director: Sam Deats
Writer: Warren Ellis
Episode Count: 10

There is a quick Season 3 recap that is shown prior to episode 1. I would definitely say that's all anyone needs to see from that, since it basically covers anything important from that Season (not that there was much). It's basically the final minute of this full S1-3 recap:
 
Last edited:

CGiRanger

Banned
Episode 1 down. Some general thoughts I'll spoiler tag for now:
Pretty much an entirely action episode. Though this is nothing out of the ordinary as each Season has typically used Ep1 to ensure interest through action. There were a few game references within, such as those annoying Fleaman enemies from the games, plus of course the statue of "Death". The action scenes overall were ok, though I do think it's clear they're really struggling to come up with ways to make them inventive with Trevor and Sypha.

But again I'm still left shaking my head at Alucard from Season 3. This opener so far shows again how that whole arc was utterly pointless since, well, he's back to wanting to help it seems so far...
 

CGiRanger

Banned
Episode 2: Already starting to notice some dumb writing 🤡
Mostly shows us what Hector is up to living in Carmilla's Castle. He seems to have "settled in" to his new role just fine while enjoying some very cringy innuendo-laden banter with Lenore. I mean, come on man, that dialogue was just painful. Is Warren Ellis really renowned for this sort of writing?

Oh yeah, and Carmilla now wants to conquer the world. So already a retcon from Season 3. Why? Just because she hates men of course (no really, that's literally it. She must have said "Stupid Old Men!" several times during her monologue 🤡 ). While I appreciate making a third-wave feminist into a main villain, the utter stupidity behind her sudden revealed change-of-heart (again, Lenore who has been at her side all this time is also somehow surprised by this) reminds me again of the horrendous writing behind the Twins' dumbass motivations in Season 3.

Meanwhile Sypha and Trevor go into a Barn and have another fight. Again these are kind of starting to get a bit dull. They meet some oddly foreign guardsmen who claim to be serving the royal family of Targoviste (foreigners serving royalty in 15th century Romania? I have doubts)
 
Last edited:

CGiRanger

Banned
Is this supposed to be the final season of the series?
Yes. The Final Season of the current setting. There's rumors and such that they'd maybe start a new series in a different setting/time period of Castlevania lore. But that's all nebulous now. Especially since Warren Ellis likely won't be back since he departed after he finished writing this last Season (he ended up #MeToo'd of all things). Also rumors that this studio would move on to something like a Devil May Cry adaptation as well.
 
Last edited:
Not expecting anything but some vampire drama and some good action after a disappointing S3. That's fine in my book, I just am aware this isn't top tier anime by any means.
 

CGiRanger

Banned
Not expecting anything but some vampire drama and some good action after a disappointing S3. That's fine in my book, I just am aware this isn't top tier anime by any means.
There is some drama so far, but I feel it'll depend on how well you like or tolerate the written dialogue. Also some of the accents seem overly harsh and I can't tell if they're forced or not.

Episode 3 done:
Episode 3 is definitely the slowest so far. A ton of dialogue between Isaac and that one Hell Creature, and his own monologues (I've often felt that Isaac's dialogues and conversations are trying too hard to sound philosophical). Then we finally see the other two Vampire queens get screen time while the big one gets a relatively decent and bloody solo fight scene. The problem is it's hard to care much about them since they've had so little time on screen so far.

Still this is definitely the first ep that was really starting to feel like things were dragging on.

And Episode 4 now done too:

Well, at least we seemingly get one important plot point from Season 3 that carries over, and that is St Germain, returning to us now. My issue is how little detail we get of him and his motivations. While we knew from the last Season he was being motivated by some girl, we are only shown their past in the briefest of flashbacks, nor do we so far know her name. Back in the Infinite Corridor he encounters another strange woman who apparently is a high level Alchemist who reminds him of what he needs to do to achieve his goals. Seemingly now he intends to follow-through with aiding the plan to resurrect Dracula to achieve it and requires Dracula's Castle to do so. So he creates a plan to herd a large enough sacrifice Alucard's way.

And back to Alucard, who again is showing no signs of any growth/development to justify his "deconstruction" in Season 3. Maybe a bit more hesitant or leery in personality perhaps? But I again fail to see what the point of it was now since so far none of his actions have been different in character from who he was pre-Season 3 either.

Halfway done at Episode 5:

Another rather plodding episode. So basically it seems the final result of Alucard's arc in S3 is to be an off-screen tale to tell his new ladyfriend "Greta", and getting a joke in response. I'm actually ok with the writer's acknowledging unintentionally that it was a joke. But for real, in the end there was no reason to have Alucard in S3 at all. Also, all the women in this show are all super-capable and can make great long speeches. I'd swear the women do more talking than the men (certainly true if not for Isaac's long-winded dialogues).

At least some action seems to be on the way soon.
 
Last edited:

Kazza

Member
I just watched the first episode today. A good start to the season - lots of action, with a focus on Sypha, Belmont and Alucard. My least favourite characters from this series are the two humans who helped Dracula in season one (such bizarre motivations!), so their absence was a plus in my book. I think having 4/5 main plotlines is too much, and the series would be much better if it just focussed on the two ones featured in this episode. Oh well.

I think I'll keep watching this over the next couple of weeks (unless it suddenly gets really bad).

A promising start.
 
J

JeremyEtcetera

Unconfirmed Member
This thread is becoming less of an OT and more of " CGiRanger CGiRanger rants about every episode of Castlevania Season 4." Nothing wrong with that I guess but I do find it funny. Don't kill your own thread man.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

CGiRanger

Banned
This thread is becoming less of an OT and more of " CGiRanger CGiRanger rants about every episode of Castlevania Season 4." Nothing wrong with that I guess but I do find it funny. Don't kill your own thread man.
Awwww. And I was just about to pirouette and say how excited I was getting as the final episodes were getting more and more hype...

Well, I'll condense the remaining half of the season in to one final post later on after digesting it further. I will say it was thankfully much better than Season 3. Though I will add I'll never be a fan of the dialogue and narrative style of overly-sarcastic characters
 
Last edited:
Yeah the coarse language adds some levity but it feels a little forced sometimes, like DmC dante try hard “cool”

The action scenes rocked though, and there was a lot of them.
 
J

JeremyEtcetera

Unconfirmed Member
The Alucard episodes make me sad at what could have been(a SoTN-based series) especially since you start to see a glimpse of his powers and skillset evolving.

Also every time he has a close-up scene they do a great job with the details making him look pretty close to his old concept arts.

AlucardSotNArtwork.jpg


22e9b2f03748c108656e13722ee1b915.jpg
 

Fbh

Member
Holy shit, 2 shows that interest me released the same week? The Netflix subscription almost feels worth it this month.

Episode 1 was fun and action packed. The framerate is still distractingly low at times though
 

JSoup

Banned
About half way through, at least one action scene was a bit of a snoozefest and I find myself zoning out around the third or fourth "fuck" in a row in a 20 second window.
 

CGiRanger

Banned
Yeah the coarse language adds some levity but it feels a little forced sometimes, like DmC dante try hard “cool”

The action scenes rocked though, and there was a lot of them.
Too much forced I feel. It seems a lot of people love random cursing though since they seem to like "Varney". I just don't get it...
10 episodes at 20-25 min. So around 4 hrs worth. Not sure I'll watch it. Season 3 was meh.
You can definitely do some fast-forwarding or skipping some parts in the first-half of the Season and not really miss much. From episode 6 to the end things seemed to quickly move without much delay (well, not counting ep 10)

The Alucard episodes make me sad at what could have been(a SoTN-based series) especially since you start to see a glimpse of his powers and skillset evolving.

Also every time he has a close-up scene they do a great job with the details making him look pretty close to his old concept arts.
I've never been able to figure out Alucard's hair color. In the games (due to his Sprite) I figured his hair color was White (his lords of shadow version also used pure white hair) but in the show they made him a full blonde. They obviously couldn't give him all the details of his old concept art though such as his inner shirts. It helps them I guess that they made him into fanservice and removed his shirts.

About half way through, at least one action scene was a bit of a snoozefest and I find myself zoning out around the third or fourth "fuck" in a row in a 20 second window.
So much of the dialogue feels overly repetitive, and that combined with the overabundance of F-bombs and other random curses always takes me out of the immersion of the show. What sucks is that, even with Warren Ellis gone, I'm guessing Netflix will assume that the fans of the show now are all happy about the narrative/dialogue choices and will seek to emulate that should they embark upon future Castlevania installments
 
J

JeremyEtcetera

Unconfirmed Member
I've never been able to figure out Alucard's hair color. In the games (due to his Sprite) I figured his hair color was White (his lords of shadow version also used pure white hair) but in the show they made him a full blonde. They obviously couldn't give him all the details of his old concept art though such as his inner shirts. It helps them I guess that they made him into fanservice and removed his shirts.
True, but to me when it comes to older games I normally trust what they had in the instruction manuals, because sprites could only display so much(remember Link had Pink hair in Zelda: aLTTP game but was constantly illustrated as blond/brown). Because of that I've always understood his hair to be a silvery-blond. It makes more sense that way since Hector's hair is gray/white and would be confusing for new viewers if they had the same hair color.

I agree with everyone else with it comes to the profanity. I feel like they were used as unnecessary 'cool' filler words for the writing because they didn't want to bother looking into and using more proper, long form words to match the situations. The writing in Seasons 1 and 2 were the best in my opinion.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Season 4 is leaps and bounds above Season 3 and mostly seems to ignore a lot of it in the process. Finished watching it yesterday, quite liked it :).
 
J

JeremyEtcetera

Unconfirmed Member
Season 4 is leaps and bounds above Season 3 and mostly seems to ignore a lot of it in the process. Finished watching it yesterday, quite liked it :).
It definitely ignores some of Alucard's development but I think it does a good job of continuing exactly where Trevor, Sypha, and Hector left off from Season 3.
 

sircaw

Banned
After finishing season 4, i can only say i found it a total letdown, and extremely disappointed in its overall direction.

Loved the first 3 seasons, this just did nothing for me.

I actually felt extremely bored watching the last couple of episodes.
 
Last edited:
The super saccharine feel good ending felt way off. Vampire sisters being so gullible and weak was a joke. I thought Lenore was a decent character but I guess the writers thought she was just an idiot who should get dunked on the entire season and given childish sexual innuendo dialogue that nobody would think is actually funny.
 
Got mixed feelings about this season. Like they build up a death of just to revert it next episode. Did not buy going evil. Plot with Isaac, Hector and Carmila went over too quickly. Don't get me wrong it's worth watching just feels a bit too similiar to previous seasons.
 

farmerboy

Member
After finishing season 4, i can only say i found it a total letdown, and extremely disappointed in its overall direction.

Loved the first 3 seasons, this just did nothing for me.

I actually felt extremely bored watching the last couple of episodes.

I felt the opposite. Loved the last 2 episodes. 🤷‍♂️
 

JSoup

Banned
I was more interested in the Hector & Isaac thing. Then it was over and there was still two more episodes. The rest of it was boring.
Going back over the previous seasons, I had forgotten about Godbrand and how he was wasted on a different characters plot point death.
 

CGiRanger

Banned
I'm very late but just haven't had the motivation to do a write-up on the last half of the Season, never mind my overall thoughts on the entire series as a whole.

But I'll give it a shot, at least with the latter half of Season 4 for now (and the Season on its own as a whole). Below I'll start with overall spoiler impressions of the last episodes, and then go into more specific general stuff
Best thing I can say about the latter half of the season is that the pacing moves at a quick pace as it needs to, since it's gotta wrap all these very disparate plot threads up. First we finish up Hector/Isaac's story nicely enough. I did appreciate the irony of Carmilla being hunted and caged to be cornered and killed like a wounded animal since that's what her plans for humanity boiled down to. Though at the end of the day I wasn't invested in the fight because these two had no history with each other, which ties into the big issue I have with the separate storylines in this series. The two other Vampire lesbians exist stage-left, but they had no real point in the story aside from token representation.

The rest of the show is about the siege at the Castle, though for Trevor and Sypha it starts back at Targoviste as they try to defend the remaining citizens from a vampire attack. I honestly never was quite sure about what the point of this excursion was in the end. As we later find out the joke character Varney wanted to find one of those teleporting mirrors to get to St Germain's location in the Castle, but to me it seemed more like a plot contrivance to get Trevor and Sypha there instantly. At least Isaac's use of it had been set up all the previous season as the end goal of that arc, here it's just thrown in. And that laughable random dark-skinned royal guard in white Romania turns out to be crazy and dies, but it's not like there was going to be anything more to her.

One thing that's nice in the latter half of the series are some incredibly obvious monster references from the games. From game Issac's primary Spirit Beast used in his Carmilla fight, to the giant Gergoth used in the Castle siege. And of course the reveal at the end that Varney was Death all along, in addition to being disguised as the Alchemist Sorceress who led St. Germain astray, all for the purpose of creating a homunculus body for the spirits of Dracula and Lisa to inhabit and be driven mad enough to destroy the world. It strikes me as a kind of convoluted plan but whatever. Things lead up to a great fight between Trevor and Death which he manages to win due to having randomly found a sacred artifact in the Targoviste vault, so I suppose that was the purpose of that side arc for Trevor (still not sure about Varney) despite how contrived and convenient it is.

Speaking of contrived, we have of course a great send-off for Trevor with his supposed death, but at the very end he randomly happens to show up alive. Even more blatant is the resurrections of both Dracula and Lisa, somehow gaining bodies after being freed from the Homunculus and apparently going off to live happily ever after. I'm still not sure how to even go about understanding the decisions behind this plot twist. I mean, clearly now the show is more separate from the games than ever, though that was already apparent after Season 2.

So to sum up Season 4 overall? I guess I'd say unequivocally that it's better than Season 3 for sure, in some cases seemingly retconning things that either never happened or didn't matter at all. I don't know what the powers that be have planned for the series, and I'm not sure if I should be looking forward to it or not, since Warren Ellis is gone (but I doubt his replacement will be any better from Netflix).

Season 4 is leaps and bounds above Season 3 and mostly seems to ignore a lot of it in the process. Finished watching it yesterday, quite liked it :).
It definitely ignores some of Alucard's development but I think it does a good job of continuing exactly where Trevor, Sypha, and Hector left off from Season 3.
So yeah. Season 4 definitely IMO does not justify much of what was done in Season 3, primarily so with Alucard but also with the other side-plots. To start off with Alucard, yeah, what was the point of Season 3 for him? His arc (and the final shot of that season) showed a very dark Alucard almost looking evil. He carries over to Season 4 none of that however, in fact the only thing he might have validly had (an aversion to helping others) is immediately chucked aside and he helps without any reservation. Even when Greta, with prodding from St Germain, directly requests to hold up in his Castle, he doesn't even object (yet after his experience with "The Twins" you'd think this would be the time to exercise the lesson learned no?) and just goes with it. That goes into my problem with Alucard for both Season 3 and 4. He's pretty much a nonentity personality-wise, and is basically reduced to a flashy fanservice fighter. The enjoyable dialogue and demeanor he had in Seasons 1 and 2 is gone and he's practically a background character (Greta does all the talking and directing). While I'm glad they didn't do anything more disgusting to Alucard in Season 4 than S3 (apparently his bizarre bisexual threesome is only to make a poly joke in the end. And the twin's corpses funnily enough disappear off-screen)

On the issue with Hector's story I have, there's a few points. First is Hector and Lenore, at the end of Season 3 she tricked him into becoming "her pet" as she directly stated. Yet apparently in just a manner of a short few weeks they're bantering about again like old chums. Then you have Carmilla's oft-talked about plans in S3, which basically get fully thrown out because she's got world-domination now on the brain, which apparently is super shocking to her close coven-members, and in the end everyone but Carmilla is sour on the idea of any of her plans (so much for being close eh?).

The super saccharine feel good ending felt way off. Vampire sisters being so gullible and weak was a joke. I thought Lenore was a decent character but I guess the writers thought she was just an idiot who should get dunked on the entire season and given childish sexual innuendo dialogue that nobody would think is actually funny.
Got mixed feelings about this season. Like they build up a death of just to revert it next episode. Did not buy going evil. Plot with Isaac, Hector and Carmila went over too quickly. Don't get me wrong it's worth watching just feels a bit too similiar to previous seasons.
I think the ending with Lenore pissed me off.
The biggest issue I have with the Hector/Isaac/Carmilla side-plot is how it is so divorced from the main plot and its characters. IIRC the main Trio never meet any of the characters involved in the side-story. It just doesn't sit right to me to have this thread that basically goes nowhere and takes up a massive amount of time in the series. Ending of course with what happened with Lenore.
I too have no idea what was supposed to be happening with her. She somehow became disillusioned with her role so quickly in again a matter of weeks, despite serving with Carmilla and co. for centuries. And afterwards when Carmilla was dead, somehow Lenore has the idea that she's just going to be a "caged bird", yet it was never explicitly or even implicitly stated that she was being imprisoned as there'd be no reason to do so. And of course going back to the fact that she went from master manipulator of Hector's emotions to becoming almost powerless in a matter of weeks. So yeah, she just decides to off herself. Ok.

I was more interested in the Hector & Isaac thing. Then it was over and there was still two more episodes. The rest of it was boring.
Going back over the previous seasons, I had forgotten about Godbrand and how he was wasted on a different characters plot point death.
One of my other big issues with this series is how they introduce so many side-characters that go absolutely nowhere, or barely contribute to the overarching narratives. The show was at its best IMO when the focus was solely on the core group of characters in Season 1. Season 2 sadly started on bringing in more side characters than they knew what to do with (Godbrand as you said), and Season 3 basically added more to the list. St. Germain was probably the only one that had a primary thread going into Season 4. Again Alucard's arc went nowhere, The Vampire Coven aside from Carmilla were all basically non-entities in the end, except Striga gets a nice fight scene against a random mob, but that only made me disappointed knowing she wouldn't battle any of the other main characters. Even in Season 4 we got that random Royal guard lady who honestly doesn't do anything except serve to annoy Trevor and Sypha.

At the end of the day it's pretty clear there's a huge difference between Seasons 1 and 2, and then 3 and 4. As I've heard, the first two Seasons were the original pitch made back in 2007, though edited/updated, and self-contained around Castlevania 3. Seasons 3 and 4 were written because it became popular, but instead of trying to adapt other games, they needed to keep around the popular characters but had diverged so much from the story they couldn't just go straight to Curse of Darkness. It was clear they had no idea what to do with Alucard and only kept him for fanservice (how oddly random for him to lose his shirt all of a sudden this final season). I do thought I had heard some rumors that they were planning to have 5 seasons, but the Warren Ellis #MeToo thing and his departure capped it at 4, which might explain the sudden plot changes and rush to finish things.

In the end, I remember saying Season 3 in retrospect would be remembered better or worse for me depending on how the plot setups were handled in 4, and well, it basically left 3 almost wholly without a reason for existing, certainly not in the manner it does taking up all the time it did to move the plot needle only along a short short distance. I've no idea what plans Netflix has for the franchise going forward, but I do hope that a new writer will move away from Warren Ellis' childish overly-sarcastic personality dialogues (...probably not)
 
Last edited:

AJUMP23

Gold Member
The ninth episode of season 4 is one for the ages. I don't want to spoil it but there is basically a big reveal and a boss fight. This is some of the most beautiful animation I have ever seen. The entire sequence at the end of episode 9 is really an amazing way to translate a game into a show. If you haven't gotten to it I cant recommend it enough.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
The ninth episode of season 4 is one for the ages. I don't want to spoil it but there is basically a big reveal and a boss fight. This is some of the most beautiful animation I have ever seen. The entire sequence at the end of episode 9 is really an amazing way to translate a game into a show. If you haven't gotten to it I cant recommend it enough.
Forgot about this. Wasnt a big fan after season 3, but maybe on the weekend I'll plow through it on an afternoon.
 
J

JeremyEtcetera

Unconfirmed Member
CGiRanger CGiRanger I agree with your long post except for two things:

1. I think it's fine that they didn't follow/set up Curse of Darkness because, to be honest, a lot of people(including myself) felt that this was the best iteration of Isaac ever created and he also had the best written arc amongst all 4 seasons. If they followed the Curse of Darkness plotline, I would have had the same complaint for Isaac that you had about Alucard(character development being tossed aside). So I'm glad they took their own direction with him.

2. The power dynamic between Hector and Lenore had changed the instant Isaac started to invade. I thought they had made that very clear but it seems a few posters here(including yourself) thought they became good old friends/lovers. All Hector had ever owed her was a second chance at life, the same second chance she gave him because Carmilla was ready to kill him multiple times throughout S3 and S4. He respectfully kept her alive as a thank you and he lowered her cage because she had no more leverage over him due to Isaac being in charge of that base now. She knew her futile situation and decided to die instead. Hector's original plan was for him to die by Isaac's hand and for Lenore to suffer loneliness and eventually kill herself anyway. Him showing her mercy and feeling bad for her dying is the same way she would have felt if it were done to him. And by that I mean it would have felt like losing a puppy/pet.
 

Fbh

Member
Finally finished this.
Overall found it rather disappointing and I still think this show works best as a 2 season standalone story.

For a season of 10 short episodes there were too many plotlines and I can't help but think the show would have been better if they just focused on one of them (either the vampire sisters or the whole Dracula revival plan).

I'm also still not a fan of the main trio being separated for all but 2 episodes in 2 seasons. And speaking of Alucard his whole S3 plotline felt even more boring and pointless since it hardly seems to have had an effect on him. They could have skipped that whole thing and his starting point this season would have been the same.

They also never really found much for Belmont and Sypha to do. Their entire plotline this season was basically just some random time filler stuff so Belmont could randomly find a bunch of strong weapons.

Episode 9 was great though, it was only missing some classics Castlevania music
 
Last edited:

Nickolaidas

Member
Just finished watching it. Had watched S1 and S2 a couple of years back, but recently re-subscribed to Netflix and wanted to see the rest.

The show had me invested enough to not realize the faults of this series until other here pointed out, which is a testament to the grip this series had on me. While there is a lot of 'modern feminism' (aka females amazing, males crass, dumb and barbaric as fuck), and had my eyes roll to the back of my skull every time Carmilla would open her mouth in Seasons 3 and 4, the show had a lot of amazing action and character scenes I simply adored.

The twist in episode 9 was amazing and I loved it. While usually the character who arrives in the end for the first time just for the twist is usually cringeworthy and just for shock value, it works here - mainly because of the character's importance in the lore and the delivery of his lines. Plus, it helps when you see that the character was not really first appearing NOW, but was lurking here and there in clever ways.

I also loved the gradual descent into madness of
Saint Germain
(despite happening in a three-minute flashback) which felt a lot more natural than Carmilla's. Even her downfall doesn't seem 'earned'. One minute she looks like she's about to take over the world, next one Isaac 'Monster King Targaryen' appears through a McGuffin portal and kills her off in a spactacular battle in terms of visuals, but completely meaningless unless you are personally invested to either of those two. After the smoke cleared, it dawned on me that half the show was about two characters we never saw interact with the main cast. That's insane. Carmilla, Hector and Isaac could never have been shown again in the show after Dracula's death in Season 2, and the entire main plot would be completely the same. It's like the show divides itself into two other shows after Season 2, except that both shows are shown together at the same time. At least, Game of Thrones (for all its faults) managed to somehow cram every story arc together in the last 2-3 seasons, but Castlevania makes no such attempt. The only thing that binds those characters was Dracula, and then his death. It's like the world lost all meaning with Vlad's death, and it's up to the characters to now find meaning in their lives.

I think this was a series that needed a couple of years in the oven to better think how to utilize certain characters and storylines. It's obvious that Castlevania tried to Game of Thrones a bit, but when your main cast is not nearly as interested in playing, it makes little sense and works even less. There are various scenes with Carmilla and her 'sisters' talking about strategy and diplomacy, but when half of that is spent by telling us who is fulfilling what role (I'm the soldier, I'm the diplomat, I'm the schemer, I'm the ... schemer/diplomat/briber?) and less on the scheming itself, you see that the writer had the will to Game of Thrones, but lacked the characters, world-building and talent to do so. "We have a scheme! We have a scheme! Our scheme is so great!" and ... what? The scheme is to travel the land while being attacked by farmers?

In the end, Castlevania wants to be more than it is (a story about a guy whipping night creatures and cool bosses) and it succeeds when it remembers its roots, and fails when it pretends to be something more. Most of the scenes that had me at the edge of my seat where scenes that are close to what Castlevania is all about. When it tries to be Game of Thrones, it fails.

And I can't help but feel that all the plots and side-plots that never actually intertwine with each other resemble the stitched abomination Varney's vampires bring Saint Germain in the last episodes - a lifeless, broken mess of multiple body parts unnaturally stitched together in order to look like a complete being, but only makes your spine shiver.
 

CGiRanger

Banned
The ninth episode of season 4 is one for the ages. I don't want to spoil it but there is basically a big reveal and a boss fight. This is some of the most beautiful animation I have ever seen. The entire sequence at the end of episode 9 is really an amazing way to translate a game into a show. If you haven't gotten to it I cant recommend it enough.
The best part about the Season was definitely the animation talent they got to throw in for Episode 9. Granted some of the fluidity of things suffers quite a bit, which I'm still not sure whether it's stylistic or just due to time/money. But at least it definitely did give off a "Final Boss" game feeling translated into the show.
CGiRanger CGiRanger I agree with your long post except for two things:

1. I think it's fine that they didn't follow/set up Curse of Darkness because, to be honest, a lot of people(including myself) felt that this was the best iteration of Isaac ever created and he also had the best written arc amongst all 4 seasons. If they followed the Curse of Darkness plotline, I would have had the same complaint for Isaac that you had about Alucard(character development being tossed aside). So I'm glad they took their own direction with him.

2. The power dynamic between Hector and Lenore had changed the instant Isaac started to invade. I thought they had made that very clear but it seems a few posters here(including yourself) thought they became good old friends/lovers. All Hector had ever owed her was a second chance at life, the same second chance she gave him because Carmilla was ready to kill him multiple times throughout S3 and S4. He respectfully kept her alive as a thank you and he lowered her cage because she had no more leverage over him due to Isaac being in charge of that base now. She knew her futile situation and decided to die instead. Hector's original plan was for him to die by Isaac's hand and for Lenore to suffer loneliness and eventually kill herself anyway. Him showing her mercy and feeling bad for her dying is the same way she would have felt if it were done to him. And by that I mean it would have felt like losing a puppy/pet.
I brought up Curse of Darkness only as an example of how lacking source material or not following it can lead to bad things when the writers are not used to coming up with brand new material to supplement source material after being used to just adaptation. Also doesn't help that Warren Ellis admittedly was not a fan of the games and most of the lore, he basically took just surface-level things and left homages and such to the studio. I will agree that TV Isaac was better than Game Isaac, but that's a very low bar because Game Isaac was just a Joker-type crazy character with nothing really special about him. That said, I did have my issues with TV Isaac where his story ended without ever having to face any recriminations for his past actions, and it also seemed his philosophical talks were mostly plodding and meandering without actual substance (seems like typical Warren Ellis though). For Hector and Lenore, we'll just have to disagree since Hector stated to Isaac at the end that all he wanted to do was live out his days with Lenore, which shows far more affection than the "Pet" that Lenore thought of him.
Finally finished this.
Overall found it rather disappointing and I still think this show works best as a 2 season standalone story.

For a season of 10 short episodes there were too many plotlines and I can't help but think the show would have been better if they just focused on one of them (either the vampire sisters or the whole Dracula revival plan).

I'm also still not a fan of the main trio being separated for all but 2 episodes in 2 seasons. And speaking of Alucard his whole S3 plotline felt even more boring and pointless since it hardly seems to have had an effect on him. They could have skipped that whole thing and his starting point this season would have been the same.

They also never really found much for Belmont and Sypha to do. Their entire plotline this season was basically just some random time filler stuff so Belmont could randomly find a bunch of strong weapons.

Episode 9 was great though, it was only missing some classics Castlevania music
Pretty much all in line with my thoughts. Several big issues as you note. One of the biggest is as you said the separate plot-lines from S2 onward. We basically have two groups (Trevor, Sypha, Alucard) (Hector, Isaac, Carmilla and Co.) that never cross paths whatsoever. I found that infuriating that it never happened, and wonder if that was always planned that way or if the series bit off more than it could chew.

Alucard's story as you say was a joke. S3 had no effect on him whatsoever, and he's pretty much bereft of all personality and characterization in S4, and thrown into another bewildering relationship that makes no sense (I got no chemistry at all between him and inserted girl, certainly not anywhere near what he had with Trevor and Sypha).

And yeah, the lack of any classic Castlevania music in this series aside from that one time in Season 2 was just so disappointing.
After the smoke cleared, it dawned on me that half the show was about two characters we never saw interact with the main cast. That's insane. Carmilla, Hector and Isaac could never have been shown again in the show after Dracula's death in Season 2, and the entire main plot would be completely the same. It's like the show divides itself into two other shows after Season 2, except that both shows are shown together at the same time. At least, Game of Thrones (for all its faults) managed to somehow cram every story arc together in the last 2-3 seasons, but Castlevania makes no such attempt. The only thing that binds those characters was Dracula, and then his death. It's like the world lost all meaning with Vlad's death, and it's up to the characters to now find meaning in their lives.

I think this was a series that needed a couple of years in the oven to better think how to utilize certain characters and storylines. It's obvious that Castlevania tried to Game of Thrones a bit, but when your main cast is not nearly as interested in playing, it makes little sense and works even less. There are various scenes with Carmilla and her 'sisters' talking about strategy and diplomacy, but when half of that is spent by telling us who is fulfilling what role (I'm the soldier, I'm the diplomat, I'm the schemer, I'm the ... schemer/diplomat/briber?) and less on the scheming itself, you see that the writer had the will to Game of Thrones, but lacked the characters, world-building and talent to do so. "We have a scheme! We have a scheme! Our scheme is so great!" and ... what? The scheme is to travel the land while being attacked by farmers?

In the end, Castlevania wants to be more than it is (a story about a guy whipping night creatures and cool bosses) and it succeeds when it remembers its roots, and fails when it pretends to be something more. Most of the scenes that had me at the edge of my seat where scenes that are close to what Castlevania is all about. When it tries to be Game of Thrones, it fails.

And I can't help but feel that all the plots and side-plots that never actually intertwine with each other resemble the stitched abomination Varney's vampires bring Saint Germain in the last episodes - a lifeless, broken mess of multiple body parts unnaturally stitched together in order to look like a complete being, but only makes your spine shiver.
Can't really disagree from my end or even add anything. You summed up more succinctly than I could have with what just feels "off" about this show. It's like a stitched-up hodgepodge of ideas that never seemed to coalesce. The first 2 Seasons were again apparently written over a decade prior to its airing. But because it became popular, they decided to make more seasons without using any source material (since non exists, and they already had deviated too far from Curse of Darkness in S2). Post-S2 it's so obvious they leaned into GOT inspiration to try to create something. I had heard rumors that supposedly the team had hoped to create up to 5 seasons, but that the issues with Ellis that came up made them pare it down to 4, so whatever they possibly thought they could plan from S3 had to be cut down severely, which would explain why Alucard's story just goes utterly nowhere.

But I agree with what you said how because these two stories were so disparate, none of the fights in the B-Story felt momentous. I didn't have any investment in Carmilla vs. Isaac due to the two never having interacted really. And yeah, the schemes that they spent all of S3 talking about ad nauseam basically all fell apart as soon as S4 started. All the talk and time in S3 ended up being totally meaningless and a waste.

The action scenes are what people will remember the most, since as you say, that's when the show gets back to the roots of what it is, which is about a Vampire Hunter fighting against Evil. The show tried to be something else entirely and it failed, especially when the writer in charge of setting the narrative clearly didn't care about the roots whatsoever. Sadly, I don't hold out hope that Netflix of all places will find any better writers to take over should they continue the franchise, but I'm glad Warren Ellis and his annoying dialogues and sarcastic-character personas are hopefully done with.
episode 9 was amazing. Episode 10 was crap...
I've sorta avoided mentioning Episode 10, when in fact I tried hard to forget it. It basically undermines the entire show (the final scenes). I almost want to say that it was basically Warren Ellis doing a big "FU" to leave off on after being forced out (and again not really ever having cared about Castlevania), because narratively speaking, it's the sort of thing that's beneath even fanfic-level works. I mean
First all the fallout from Trevor's death is undone since he miraculously is still alive, while also explaining how he just stumbled upon the weapon needed to kill Death. And then of course bringing back Dracula and Lisa, and both just going on their merry way (can't even be arsed to let their son know even...)
It's just incredibly half-assed for an ending.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom