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[Drizzlehell]

Take a game like Gothic for example.

No maps, no quest markers, not even a little compass on the screen with tiny icons indicating that there's something nearby. All you could rely on were your wits, the road signs, and a big scary monster running at you in a sign that you should probably do a 180 and get the fuck out of there.

And all of that was baked into the game's dough, so it's not like this HUD-less experience was an optional one. Any game that offers any kind of HUD-based directions wouldn't count in this little exercise, so don't you go mentioning... whatever game you were thinking about right now, because it's probably not what I'm talking about.

I honestly struggle to think of too many games like that.

 

[GHG]

Morrowind.

You actually had to listen to the directions the quest giver provides. Imagine that.

We really have regressed.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Morrowind.

You actually had to listen to the directions the quest giver provides. Imagine that.

We really have regressed.

It's been a while but didn't Morrowind had a minimap and a compass?

But yes, I do remember having to refer to my journal and looking at road signs quite often.

 

[L*][*N*K]

Morrowind

 

[Gaiff]

Morrowind.

You actually had to listen to the directions the quest giver provides. Imagine that.

We really have regressed.

Morrowind does have a map.

 

[GHG]

It's been a while but didn't Morrowind had a minimap and a compass?

No minimap.

The compass was only visible when pulling up the map screen.

 

[ReBurn]

ET for Atari 2600

 

[kanjobazooie]

never mind

 

[Rockondevil]

Morrowind as already mentioned.
Or Elden Ring and don’t open the map?

 

[Gaiff]

No minimap.

The compass was only visible when pulling up the map screen.

What's that on the top left corner?

 

[GHG]

Drizzlehell if you want something more modern that replicates the experience you outlined then check out outward:

No quest markers, no minimap, minimal hand holding other than the initial tutorial.

The entire experience revolves around exploration and discovery. It's very much a fuck around to find out kind of game.

What's that on the top left corner?

That's not a minimap son. Do you remember how that thing actually "functioned" and what it's purpose was?

 

[STARSBarry]

What's that on the top left corner?

A micromap, tottaly different

 

[Gaiff]

That's not a minimap son. Do you remember how that thing actually "functioned" and what it's purpose was?

I mean it is a mini map. OP does specify :

No maps, no quest markers, not even a little compass on the screen with tiny icons indicating that there's something nearby.

Kinda sounds like he wanted to exclude Morrowind specifically.

As for the thread, I honestly can't recall any. Morrowind would be the closest and I still relied on signs and directions from NPCs to get around but you could still pull out a map menu and had that "micro map" to help you.

 

[FrankWza]

SotC

 

[Drizzlehell]

Drizzlehell if you want something more modern that replicates the experience you outlined then check out outward:

No quest markers, no minimap, minimal hand holding other than the initial tutorial.

The entire experience revolves around exploration and discovery. It's very much a fuck around to find out kind of game.



That's not a minimap son. Do you remember how that thing actually "functioned" and what it's purpose was?

Honestly that looks dope as shit. Although the store page doesn't really mention anything about story - does this have any story and NPC interactions, or is this completely sandbox that you play just for the sake of playing?

 

[Gaiff]

SotC

Is it open-world?

 

[cireza]

Morrowind is a good example. There are probably many older games that did not provide direct indications and it was good open-world game-design. When I think of open-world, the challenge and fun should come from finding your way and places of interest.

 

[Sw0pDiller]

Ghost of Tsushima? not really but i liked the "wind" mechanic

 

[stn]

Immediately thought of Morrowind. I remember running around and relying on road signs and journal notes to find locations. So amazing.

 

[Valkyria]

The original Outcast.

 

[FrankWza]

Is it open-world?

Yes

 

[Fuz]

IIRC Legend of Valour

Fallout 1/2m maybe? I can think of other old RPGs, but I'm not sure if they fully apply to your request.


Edit: By the way, on its character creator you could have given a female character various moustache types. How far ahead was that game?

 

[The Stig]

Days Gone in survival mode.

It's hard 2 mode (which is tough as nails anyway)

as well as:

In the Days Gone Survival Mode has the following features:

• No Survival Vision feature which normally helps you locate enemies and items on other difficulty levels.
• No fast travelling
• No HUD.
• Map waypoints are removed.
• Extremely scarce resources.
• Enemies have an incredible amount of health.
• Many enemies can kill you in one or two hits.
• Freakers can smell you from a mile away.
• Can't lower difficulty.

I am currently playing this. Its super hard. The big brute enemies (the breaker) take FOREVER to kill.

 

[GHG]

I mean it is a mini map.

We are getting into semantics here, but it's really not, they didn't call it that at the time. And it doesn't really fit the modern definition (or standards) of a minimap either. To get one of those and quest markers etc requires mods.

Honestly that looks dope as shit. Although the store page doesn't really mention anything about story - does this have any story and NPC interactions, or is this completely sandbox that you play just for the sake of playing?

It has a main questline but it's not the focus of the game, the path you take and your experiences are the story. It's very free-form in that sense. You'll find yourself in some ridiculous situations.

Just go in blind as possible. Based on your OP I think you'll love it.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Kinda sounds like he wanted to exclude Morrowind specifically.

Not necessarily. Morrowind is very close to what I have in mind, and Gothic is pretty much the only example I can think of. In Gothic you don't even get a map, not unless you buy one from a merchant but even then it's mostly just for reference, it doesn't actually show you any icons or directions on it.

Is it open-world?

Yes.

Ghost of Tsushima? not really but i liked the "wind" mechanic

It does have a map screen but yeah, I actually really liked the idea of wind showing you the way. A very organic and stylish way to provide you with general directions without taking your eyes off gameplay.

 

[Kvally]

Days Gone in survival mode.

It's hard 2 mode (which is tough as nails anyway)

as well as:

In the Days Gone Survival Mode has the following features:

• No Survival Vision feature which normally helps you locate enemies and items on other difficulty levels.
• No fast travelling
• No HUD.
• Map waypoints are removed.
• Extremely scarce resources.
• Enemies have an incredible amount of health.
• Many enemies can kill you in one or two hits.
• Freakers can smell you from a mile away.
• Can't lower difficulty.

I am currently playing this. Its super hard. The big brute enemies (the breaker) take FOREVER to kill.

 

[Fuz]

What's that on the top left corner?

Isn't that a mod?

Just asking, can't remember.

 

[Gaiff]

And I know what you mean OP. Having a mini-map with quest markers and a compass takes away a lot from exploration. One of the fun part of exploring is finding your way using clues, landmarks, and directions. The journey in and of itself is a reward. With modern games, you just open your map, look at what objective is the closest and either fast-travel there or run straight to it.

Isn't that a mod?

Just asking, can't remember.

Nope. That's the Xbox version.

 

[Fuz]

Nobody said Dark Souls?

 

[Rush2112]

OG far cry before ubisoft turned it into an arcade game. But had only open maps not full open world.

 

[Labadal]

Daggerfall?

Arcanum doesn't have quest markers.

 

[MadchesterManc]

I'm sure Assassins Creed Odyssey had the option of playing the game in that way, with no markers etc, so you had to judge locations by landmarks on the map

 

[PanzerCute]

Dark and Demons Souls.

 

[Gaiff]

OG far cry before ubisoft turned it into an arcade game. But had only open maps not full open world.

You have that compass/radar thing but yeah, it almost fits the bill. Was fun looking around with binoculars for your objectives while remaining undetected.

Man, you guys really made me want to reply some of these oldies that just let you loose in the world with just a stick and a pair of shorts lol.

 

[Drizzlehell]

And I know what you mean OP. Having a mini-map with quest markers and a compass takes away a lot from exploration. One of the fun part of exploring is finding your way using clues, landmarks, and directions. The journey in and of itself is a reward. With modern games, you just open your map, look at what objective is the closest and either fast-travel there or run straight to it.


Nope. That's the Xbox version.

Yeah, I thought about this thread idea when plaything through Fallout 3 now. I dunno why it didn't bother me before but right now I just can't stand the fact that there are icons on the compass that show me nearby undiscovered locations, and the nagging compulsion to look at it every 10 seconds while exploring. I would much prefer if the game just let me spot a damn landmark and just run towards it to see what it is. I also remember that New Vegas was much better at this whole "distinct landmarks that you could see from a mile away" thing. Fallout 3 is nothing but dead trees and ruins. It can get a bit dull sometimes.

 

[a multicultural team of v]

Why would you even want that? Don't get me wrong most of the HUD stuff is really overbearing and terrible, but not even a map? That isn't "realistic" or "hardcore" it is just dumb - humans have been using maps for over 2,000 years.

Now, what games need to get better at is how the map is created - I don't get why for basically every single game at most all you can put on your map is a single marker. You should be able to annotate a map with literally anything you want - give a shitload of icons to use and allow free-form text to leave notes. That way you can be given a basically blank relief map with key towns or something and be able to build it yourself. And it would be a lot cooler when an NPC gives directions because they could also mark your map, and you could then modify their marking if needed.

Elden Ring came close to this, but again there was no way to leave any notes for yourself. So at some point I had like 30 icons on the map and had no clue what most of them were even for, so it was basically useless. Which is a shame because it was a great system otherwise.

 

[Danjin44]

Dark and Demons Souls.

That game is not open world, its structure is much more closer to dungeon crawler.

 

[Drizzlehell]

Why would you even want that? Don't get me wrong most of the HUD stuff is really overbearing and terrible, but not even a map? That isn't "realistic" or "hardcore" it is just dumb - humans have been using maps for over 2,000 years.

Gothic's premise is that you're a petty criminal who gets thrown into a magic prison with nothing but a shirt on his back. Hardly a cartographer.

It makes sense in a game like this that puts plenty of emphasis on immersion.

 

[LakeOf9]

BOTW

 

[Alexios]

Why would you even want that? Don't get me wrong most of the HUD stuff is really overbearing and terrible, but not even a map? That isn't "realistic" or "hardcore" it is just dumb - humans have been using maps for over 2,000 years.

You do get a rather vague map in Gothic, where even though most things are drawn, nothing is actually marked. It would have been better if you could put notes on it as you go along, to mark things you want to return to later etc., but it works well for the game as it is. It shows your location too

You can also get other maps which show the way to certain places or certain areas in more detail than the overall world map. Maybe he never found the cartographer? Obviously the game is still different to most but a strict "no maps at all" meant to disqualify other games, disqualifies itself too

 

[delfrickintree]

A game that somewhat qualifies - Kholat. You explore this siberian desert area and you have a janky map but no markers whatsoever. And the landscape barely helps you find your location and path on it. I found that incredibly difficult compared to a standard minimap hud.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Crosscode. There were no quest markers or anything at all that directed you. However you did get a map (world map, not minimap) with the name of places that unlocked as you went, and you could place custom markers in it.
I remember for quests you'd often need to read the name of a place and look around in the map for it. Once there you'd have to go with your gut or clues (look for a tree, x type of enemy, etc).

 

[a multicultural team of v]

Gothic's premise is that you're a petty criminal who gets thrown into a magic prison with nothing but a shirt on his back. Hardly a cartographer.

It makes sense in a game like this that puts plenty of emphasis on immersion.

Ok that is fair, I think that is another good point - the games should probably fit the navigation to the theme/plot/character better. Gothic it makes sense for a shit map, but then something like Greedfall where you are nobility (if I remember right) would probably have a great map.

 

[CamHostage]

Hmm, will this start trouble again...
Alien vs Predator on Jaguar?

 

[The Stig]

yeah, its hard as balls.

however I will say that I do navigate the map by looking out for landmarks

 

[CamHostage]

This post will immediately defeat itself (probably this is one of the games OP was saying people would be thinking of firstmost for this thread yet would not count if you thought about it), but it's probably worth starting and ending the conversation of Shadow of the Colossus, which is mostly wordless and open and up to the player to explore, but t does have the sword glint which points the way to the next Colossus when you are unsure of how to proceed.

A game of this type which didn't have that guidance system and just let you roam and encounter beings could be interesting, but it would also be much more difficult to tell a story (in the fashion that SotC tells a story) or have logical play progression systems built into it. But it is an interesting idea, to just have players go their own way at all times.

 

[K' Dash]

I never relied on the map plating BOTW, it has very recognizable landmarks, even if I got distracted with other stuff, I could just look up, spot the landmark and continue.

 

[GHG]

Missed opportunity to use this gif:

 

[Kvally]

Missed opportunity to use this gif:

 

[GHG]