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Opinion Drama Can we stop pretending switch docked mode is of secondary importance to portable play?

Is Switch more of a home console or a handheld?


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supernova8

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So, I just don’t accept the narrative that switch is primarily a handheld device. Because it obviously is not, it’s in the name *Switch* and it isn’t “Nintendo’s handheld device that can also be played on the tv”.

People here, as well as those at digital foundry seem to call it a portable console as a way to deflect criticism from its docked performance.

Yet if we look at the launch of the console, we saw games made by Nintendo that prioritized use of the joycons on a home display ; i.e. arms, and 1 2 switch. The joy cons themselves are for home play primarily.

If we look at Nintendo’s main Mario games, there’s enough evidence to reasonably claim Mario odyssey and esp. bowsers fury are designed around the docked experience first.

Bowsers fury runs at 30fps in handheld mode, which is enough for me to say this mode was second in importance to the developers. This is Mario we are talking about ; 60fps has been a franchise staple for the majority of the series.

Mario odyssey does not run at the native resolution of the handheld, and is obviously using some shaky upscaling method from 480p or something ; like they made these hd assets and just cut the game down for handheld mode.

So yeah, since day 1 and from Nintendo’s own studios docked play has not been second to portable play, it’s in the NAME *switch*, and many of us primarily play docked mode.

I just wanted to say this cute deflecting with “it’s a portable console” as a defense of anything the switch doesn’t do so well is a cop out and should be called out.

I love the switch, and many games are beautiful and run smoothly. But the fact is it could have been a better experience with regards to docked play, in a number of games. Just because there has been no alternative to handheld play for these years, doesn’t mean the switch should be free from criticism in its docked mode.

Rant over.
What narrative?

john travolta GIF


Feels like you made this entire thread to shit on people who like using it mainly as a handheld. Leave people alone.

Bully Driving GIF by ABC Network


To at least attempt to respond to the meat of your post, though:

It is a hybrid console. It isn't one or the other. You're just as much in the wrong for shitting on its docked performance as these imaginary people saying it's primary a handheld device. If you want PS4/Xbox One/PS5 levels of performance then buying the Switch was a silly move.

It is intentionally compromised to make it viable as a handheld device.

Not sure what else there is to say.
 
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The hardware is completely shit that some people cant play one way while others cant play it another way.

Then there’s me.

It looks like complete shit on a 4K OLED 65 tv.
And was this thing made for hands?

That being said everyone I got a switch for plays it portable but they slide out a joycon, and play it like a mini tv. They dont actually hold the thing.
 

StateofMajora

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What narrative?

john travolta GIF


Feels like you made this entire thread to shit on people who like using it mainly as a handheld. Leave people alone.

Bully Driving GIF by ABC Network


To at least attempt to respond to the meat of your post, though:

It is a hybrid console. It isn't one or the other. You're just as much in the wrong for shitting on its docked performance as these imaginary people saying it's primary a handheld device. If you want PS4/Xbox One/PS5 levels of performance then buying the Switch was a silly move.

It is intentionally compromised to make it viable as a handheld device.

Not sure what else there is to say.
Lol. Read the posts in the thread and look at the poll results. Almost half the people think it's primarily a handheld device, much to logic's chagrin. If anything i've been proven correct in how a lot of people view switch.
 

SteelAttack

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In my opinion it's both, a home console and a portable, a decent effort to bridge both gaming experiences. Somehow it still manages to fuck it up in both aspects, though. As a home console it has weak hardware, and as a portable it ALSO has weak hardware and shit ergonomics. Not to mention those fucking joycons.

Having said that Animal Crossing is my favorite game in that system and I'll fucking fight anyone about it. With knives.
 

Kataploom

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i get you op but switch docked on a big 4K screen is just ugly.
Then get another TV, the Switch was not designed for 4K TVs, nor were PS4 / Xbone / XSS. There's just a handful of people with 4K TVs out there so even in 2021 targeting Full-HD makes more sense most of the time if other things have to be given on a budget.
 
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Esppiral

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I will say the following:
I am still waiting for a new Nintendo home console since the Wiiu.
 
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That's wrong. Bowser's fury is 30fps in portable mode, 60fps docked. Odyssey uses (poor) image upscaling in portable mode from like 480p or less, dynamic. Xenoblade is 720p docked. Check digital foundry's articles.

Point being, it's clear portable mode gets the shaft often and It's definitely not the case that "all games are made for portable mode first as the base."
The dock being just a plastic box that just has a charger and HDMI out is evidence enough that portable IS the system especially when system hacks showed how you can easily get docked performance using overclocking which drains the battery faster yes but it's solution is for Nintendo to stop being greedy cunts and start putting the latest and greatest batteries on the market and stop gimping their specs in order to sell costumers ancient overpriced tech for over 250$ in order to maximize their profits and not even offer those willing to pay more the option like the Series X/S situation.
 

tygertrip

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i get you op but switch docked on a big 4K screen is just ugly.
Playing Metroid Dread on an 82" 4K Samsung, and it looks great. And I primarily play games on PC. I remember when the 2600 was new, so it seems ridiculous to me, to complain about switch graphics. LOL, "muh switch don't do 4k!!!".
 

tygertrip

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Define big. 65 or larger? And this also definitely depends on how your tv upscales.

Not to mention, Switch games have by far the biggest variety of screen resolutions in the history of consoles, so more so than ever, it depends on the games.

We have absolute turds like wolfenstein 2 that hit 360p, and then we have 1080p games like luigi, mario kart and cruis’n blast, and everything in between those resolutions.

On my 49 and 55 inch sony tvs, something like mario odyssey looks fantastic on them. And that game is 900p dynamic.
82" 4K Samsung here, and Metroid Dread looks incredible. Maybe he played on a cheap ass tv with a god awful scaler.
 
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StateofMajora

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82" 4K Samsung here, and Metroid Dread looks incredible. Maybe he played on a cheap ass tv with a god awful scaler.
I always imagine it's a vizio or entry level tcl/hisense unless they tell me otherwise lol.

That said, 82 inches, dang that's huge. What model of Samsung do you have?
 
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cireza

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Switch is handheld console that you can plug on a TV. It has handheld hardware and performance. Its games look much better on a smaller 720p than on big TVs, where they are really soft looking for the vast majority.
 

Neff

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It still uses mobile parts. I can name a laptop "my desktop", put it in a docking station and use it exclusively that way, and yet it will still be a laptop with all the form factor limitations at the end of the day. The hardware is a fact no matter what the marketing says.

Yeah but the launch and OLED Switch have everything you need to play it on a TV out of the box. Laptops generally don't. So this analogy doesn't work so good.
 

Redneckerz

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Lengthy care post incoming, but to put some context: This thread was made because of comments posted in this thread.

Its time to put this stuff to a closing.

You know, its alright to be in the wrong. Just don't go out of your way making a thread about it :p

You can attest to Witcher 3 being good, but Dying Light gets no pass, yet they run on completely different engines, yet you expect DL to be atleast the same as Witcher. The fact its a 30 fps game and does so well, on a engine not designed for the Switch, on hardware a order of magnitude weaker makes your stance go haywire. People can find things geniunely impressive when they are: You don't have to share that sentiment. But neither should you present your opinion as fact, which is what you are doing here.

You go ham on the word ''Switch'' and that it should mean it should be doing well at both, when practical consensus is that the ''hybrid'' fares better at portable play. Making false equivalencies and arguing semantics is just poor.

Also OP if your stance is anything to go by, who are you trying to convince here? You won't be swayed by people staying how certain ports are impressive, and you yourself have wished for a more performant Switch.

Your solution is quite literally the Steam Deck. Its the same thing as a Switch in that it can output to TV and be portable, but its a heck of a ton more powerful. Have you ordered one yet?

Everything else you are doing is just variations on the semantics game. Is it more of a console? Is it more of a handheld? What needs to be more preferred?

Never have i thought that introducing multiple ways of play and thus being flexible generates such complaints.

So, I just don’t accept the narrative that switch is primarily a handheld device. Because it obviously is not, it’s in the name *Switch* and it isn’t “Nintendo’s handheld device that can also be played on the tv”.
The name suggests what you are saying (the former), but the marketing for the device is the latter. Perhaps its there where your disharmony arises? That the marketing does not actually match the name?
People here, as well as those at digital foundry seem to call it a portable console as a way to deflect criticism from its docked performance.
OP, the fact that you say things like these (And even call it cute deflecting) tells me you didn't pay attention the last time. See this post here where it is stated that some ports are not that great to play because they actually affect playability. Other ports, fare better.
Yet if we look at the launch of the console, we saw games made by Nintendo that prioritized use of the joycons on a home display ; i.e. arms, and 1 2 switch. The joy cons themselves are for home play primarily.
Says who? The marketing actually suggests you use it as a tabletop with friends, outside. There is no home play there. So who to believe? See how using the same kind of logic against your own argument isn't holding up?

Did you know PSP could do video output too?
Even better, the PSP Go was essentially a Switch before the Switch ever existed.
The hardware is mobile hardware so I don't get why there is even a discussion.....

It's a handheld with an optional docked mode.
Exactly. Despite the marketing calling it a switch implying (correctly) it can switch inbetween Docked and Portable, due to the hardware it works best in portable play. It pains me to see the OP state the opposite since that's completely against Nintendo's own marketing.
It’s called *switch*, not DS.

So was n64 a cgi workstation because it had that hardware in it?
Well, technically... :p

But this is a false equivalency.
This is not a why people buy a switch thread.

This is about the docked experience being no less of a focus, and that developers focus just as much (if not more depending on the title, as I mentioned) on the docked experience vs. portable.

We all know switch is more so successful because of the handheld aspect. It’s not the point. That’s personal preference.
Then what is the point? Because clearly developers take both docked and portable into account. Its that due to the nature of the hardware the Switch is best suited for portable play. That's literally all there is to it.

Its literally in the hardware Majora. Its used in tablets! The entire Switch SoC is centered around mobile play first and for most.
The docked experience is superior, that’s the general rule. It’s not some secondary meaningless option.
You first correctly say that docked and portable get equal attention, and then you go say that the docked experience is superior. How? Why? Yes, it carres a resolution uptick, but it also has to do that on screens that aren't 1280x720, or 1600x900. In portable play, the resolution is usually more so fixed, and things that are apparent on a bigger screen are less noticeable on portable.
Sir, you seem to only want to talk about this minus the reason WHY it might happen bud. That isn't a "coherent conversation".
I think OP misunderstands the marketing focus of Nintendo for the Switch and that it should be more focused on the device as a console rather than as a hybrid or as a portable.
Lol. Read the posts in the thread and look at the poll results. Almost half the people think it's primarily a handheld device, much to logic's chagrin. If anything i've been proven correct in how a lot of people view switch.
Almost 60 procent think its as much a home console than it is a portable. Gee, maybe Nintendo called it a hybrid for a reason?

The 40 procent people would well be swayed in the 60 procent group because your question is flawed:
  • By fact is the Switch both a console and a handheld, as is evidenced by the fact you can play it on TV with a separate controller, and play it on the go using its own screen.
  • Given it uses mobile hardware, many are then concluding that the hybrid is more suited for portable play, because that's what it is by its very nature. Its mobile hardware, so ofcourse people are going to say it works better for portable play. Why is this an issue?
  • What i can judge from your point, is that you rather want a more powerful Switch that makes more sense as a console. That's one way of looking at it, but that's not how Nintendo is looking at it and most of the almost 100 million Switches sold to consumers also aren't seeing it. They see it as a hybrid that works best in portable play, but can alsoplay on Docked.
    • You however, insist that Docked play should be getting equal attention. But that's quite literally not the marketing pitch of Nintendo.
  • If you don't want to accept that, feel free for it, but don't continue this narrative that Nintendo should have taken a different road and instead focus more on a pro-console machine. But hey, perhaps the Switch Pro will fill your needs?
 

Haggard

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Yeah but the launch and OLED Switch have everything you need to play it on a TV out of the box. Laptops generally don't. So this analogy doesn't work so good.
That the docking station is bundled in instead of being sold separately is your argument? Wow..... By that retarded logic a laptop bundled with a docking station and a BT controller would automatically become a desktop system. :messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy:
We`re seriously getting into silly territory as this goes beyond grasping for straws already.
 
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baphomet

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Anyone saying that the switch looks great on their TV are either blind or just straight up don't know what an image is supposed to look like on there. And no, you're tvs scaler isn't magic.

"These dvds look amazing on my 4k tv!"
 
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It depends how it will be used. It doesn't matter what you find hard to believe or not. This is entirely subjective based on the individual. My son plays his switch 100% of the time portable, it doesn't matter to him how it performs docked at all.
 

IFireflyl

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It depends how it will be used. It doesn't matter what you find hard to believe or not. This is entirely subjective based on the individual. My son plays his switch 100% of the time portable, it doesn't matter to him how it performs docked at all.

Uh, no. What type of device it is is not dependent on how an individual uses it. Just because I set my Switch on fire and boil a pot of water on it doesn't mean it's a stove. How it is used is irrelevant to how it was intended to be used. How it was intended to be used is what determines what type of device it is. Regardless of how your son uses his Switch, this is still a hybrid device. It is not a portable-end-of-story device.
 
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Spukc

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The hardware is completely shit that some people cant play one way while others cant play it another way.

Then there’s me.

It looks like complete shit on a 4K OLED 65 tv.
And was this thing made for hands?

That being said everyone I got a switch for plays it portable but they slide out a joycon, and play it like a mini tv. They dont actually hold the thing.
nobody on planet earth does this
 

Cutty Flam

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It’s a home console w/ the option to be played handheld on the go anywhere. The battery life isn’t great and the experience drops a point or two when being played handheld so it’s a home console IMO
 

StateofMajora

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It’s a home console w/ the option to be played handheld on the go anywhere. The battery life isn’t great and the experience drops a point or two when being played handheld so it’s a home console IMO
It’s definitely better as a home console, in every possible way :

1. You’re not limited to the switch’s lcd screen or oled screen and can use high end tvs with picture processing to really make games look smoother in motion and pop more. Can’t use black frame insertion on the go can you?!

2. Pro controller vs. non ergonomic joycons on a wide handheld.

3. Usually either better performance or better image quality or both.

But it definitely is equally a handheld and a home unit.
 

Redneckerz

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Oh yeah i forgot that State threw me on ignore for being disingenuous so make that as you will. If you see the post State, atleast know i tried to explain.
 

PaintTinJr

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Ever since I realised that MK8 deluxe doesn't match the smooth split screen performance of the WiiU version, most likely because the Switch ARM chip is much weaker than the WiiU POWER chip at processing 3 more scenes in the same time-frame I've felt it is really just a handheld to be played 4 player - 4 Switchs played portably in lan mode - like the Nintendo DS.

MK8 deluxe also throws up another question when you factor in the Switch Lite. Given how unbalanced and handicapping competitive play on a portable display is compared to a TV, should those playing portably have the option to only pair with other portable players? When I've played with friends - where we are all quite evenly matched playing locally in split screen - the inability to avoid things at pixel accuracy on a tiny screen compared to TV makes it no fun and a complete mismatch.
 

Marvel14

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Bit of both isn't it?
End of Thread.

Seriously though can we stop making threads with Strawman arguments that no one is making objectively? Only those trying to gain clicks or wind people up would claim it's only one of the two.
 
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StateofMajora

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Ever since I realised that MK8 deluxe doesn't match the smooth split screen performance of the WiiU version, most likely because the Switch ARM chip is much weaker than the WiiU POWER chip at processing 3 more scenes in the same time-frame I've felt it is really just a handheld to be played 4 player - 4 Switchs played portably in lan mode - like the Nintendo DS.
What are you talking about? Mario kart 8 deluxe runs better in single player (no 59fps glitch like Wii U) and both switch and Wii U run 3-4 player split screen at 30fps. 1080p on switch, 720 on wii u, all else being equal.

Switch’s cpu is better all round than Wii U which is a gamecube cpu with 2 duck taped extra cores at a higher frequency.
 
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NinjaBoiX

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It’s too compromised as a home console, and the full fat model is too cumbersome as a handheld. It’s a flawed execution of a decent concept.

But the switch Lite is fantastic, far better than the original.
 

PaintTinJr

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What are you talking about? Mario kart 8 deluxe runs better in single player (no 59fps glitch like Wii U) and both switch and Wii U run 3-4 player split screen at 30fps. 1080p on switch, 720 on wii u, all else being equal.

Switch’s cpu is better all round than Wii U which is a gamecube cpu with 2 duck taped extra cores at a higher frequency.
Only the other week me and two friends tried to play 3 player splitscreen and the Switch was very judder-y for frame-rate in lots of places, but particularly when we were all getting boost starts at the line. The WiiU version plays flawlessly in 4 player, and single player, and the ARM chip is most likely the culprit for the frame-pacing and frame-drops in 3-4 player on Switch ... because it isn't a brawny processor like the POWER chip in the WiiU, and splitscreen really does tax the CPU hard.
 
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Tschumi

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I am soooo annoyed by thread titles that, news to me! Tell me that I'm complicit in a huge fraud or something, jayzus...

I own a switch lite... Because it only cost like $20 more than a vita second hand so who cares right... In my mind it is, 100%, a handheld. Even CIV 6.

More expensive, with less variety, but with a few possibly better titles and bigger deal ports than Vita, but a handheld above all else.

Also i gotta be careful because it clearly has a screen designed to keep kids awake, my eyes twitch all over the place when i turn that bitch off and close my eyes late at night...

I can't believe how much money Nintendo have, I've spent enough for like 3 more switches in games since i bought it, second hand or on sale notwithstanding
 

StateofMajora

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Only the other week me and two friends tried to play 3 player splitscreen and the Switch was very judder-y for frame-rate in lots of places, but particularly when we were all getting boost starts at the line. The WiiU version plays flawlessly in 4 player, and single player, and the ARM chip is most likely the culprit for the frame-pacing and frame-drops in 3-4 player on Switch ... because it isn't a brawny processor like the POWER chip in the WiiU, and splitscreen really does tax the CPU hard.
I have only really played 2 player split screen and have had no drops on either version.

If it does drop on switch, it’s not because of the superior cpu in switch. floating point performance and instructions per clock are much slower on Wii U. It doesn’t matter if power or blast processing is in the name lol.

If it happens during a boost, that would not be cpu, but memory bandwidth most likely. Which Wii U does have more of with its edram setup. It’s the one advantage wii U has.

I will have to try this for myself, although iirc the judder you might be seeing could be caused by the top and bottom screens alternate being refreshed every other frame, meaning the screen is refreshing at 60 but dropping every other frame.

Maybe Wii U does it differently? I no longer have a wii u copy of 8 to check though.
 

StateofMajora

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PaintTinJr PaintTinJr

I did find this DF video though, and the wii U version has those frame pacing issues in split screen as well.


And on switch, there are no frame pacing issues on DF’s report, and not only that but he said the 3 player refreshes the same way on Wii U. Skip to 3:41.

 
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tkscz

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Isn't that up to whoever buys the switch? For me it's a mix but for my wife she rather play in handheld so that she can have a show on the TV.
 

chriskun

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I bought a lite and it’s definitely only good for playing 2d games. The screen is not big enough for 3d games and they weren’t developed to focus on a handheld obviously. I was super excited to play bayonetta 2 as I love stylish action and combining the tiny screen with shitty performance I would have preferred to play it in a docked mode if it were available. So if you care about performance and playability it seems like the switch in essence spread itself thin across both modes. And lets not forget the shitty dpad/joycons.
 

Captain Toad

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I bought a lite and it’s definitely only good for playing 2d games. The screen is not big enough for 3d games and they weren’t developed to focus on a handheld obviously. I was super excited to play bayonetta 2 as I love stylish action and combining the tiny screen with shitty performance I would have preferred to play it in a docked mode if it were available. So if you care about performance and playability it seems like the switch in essence spread itself thin across both modes. And lets not forget the shitty dpad/joycons.
I've played plenty of 3D games on the Lite.
 

packy34

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Playing docked is the only way to stream or capture video, so at least in that regard it's pretty important.

It's just significantly less appealing as a whole if you aren't using it handheld though IMO.
 

Umbasaborne

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Good god that title is dramatic. Op why do you care so much about how other people perceive the switch. I mean really, who gives a shit?
 
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