Support NeoGAF

[FireFly]

Pretty sure everyone was saying this, switch will probably be orin based and with 8 the Cuda cores so even if they need further throttling 1 tflop portable and 2.2 docked is easily possible,
Also worth mentioning you were the one going off about how you expected ps3 level performance out of a switch 2, regardless of how little sense that makes

Also Orin is on Samsung 8nm. You would hope Nintendo would use a newer process in 2023/2024. Even 6nm should be a nice bump.

Edit: When the Switch launched at 20nm, PC GPUs were on 16nm, so they were basically only 1 process node behind. While we expect 3nm GPUs in the 2023/2024 timeframe.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

The dock will actually be an external 3080ti, so in docked mode it will be stronger than ps5/xsx while in portable mode it will be basically a steamdeck.

Checkmate atheists

There will actually be third party games that run with better IQ on the next version on Switch versus PS5 due to DLSS.

 

[Joelenheimer]

Why do Nintendo fans constantly do this to themselves?

I feel like it's not Nintendo fans that do this, but people who are new to Nintendo and/or who haven't been around for a while, e.g. folks who dipped around the N64 or GCN days. I could be wrong though but I just feel like Nintendo fans like myself who've been invested in that companies products for some time are well aware that we won't get some super-powered console/handheld any time soon if ever.

 

[CrustyBritches]

A 2024 Switch 2 with support for DLSS, FSR, VRS, and Nintendo's AI supersampling should be about as powerful as a Steam Deck.

 

[Aldric]

I don't know what OP is sperging out about and I haven't read the entire thread but I'm pretty sure we've got official data from the Nvidia hack that confirmed they're working on a new Orin based Switch hardware with DLSS and ray tracing support. That should put this hardware significantly above the current Switch and easily in the same ballpark as the Steam Deck but of course nothing close to the PS5.

https://wccftech.com/nintendo-switch-2-next-gen-console-nvidia-ampere-dlss-2-2-ray-tracing-leak/

 

[Astral Dog]

Despite what i wrote before, Nintendo still needs to make the next generation Switch reasonably powerful.

This is NOT because console wars or because they are back in the power race, its simply for third party support, the current Switch has plenty of it, and publishers are actually happy with the sales of their games(both indies, AAA and everything in between) and making good business , so what comes next? Nintendo has to deliver a system that matches or even exceeds PlayStation 4 to ensure all those games can be ported without trouble.

The good news is that the Switch design was a success, despite its reputation on the internet as weak, the hardware surpassed the 7th generation, otherwise no games could have been ported from Xbox ONE, modern tools and increased RAM helped it a lot, i see Nintendo wanting a similar situation with Switch 2, no way all games will fit the system but it wouldn't be impossible to downport from this generation, as well as the eight.

The reason all is not hopeless is Nvidia, them and Nintendo just work well together and will continue to do so

 

[6502]

I am holding off on steam deck for Switch 2. I hear it's gonna be three ps5s and a series x duct taped together thanks to blast processing.

 

[Stuart360]

PS5 level? lol. It will be XB1 level, maybe PS4 level at a push. XB1 is roughl;y 3 times as powerful than Switch and this is Nintendo we are talking about here, so would you really be that surprised if Switch 2 was only 3 times as powerful as Switch?, because i wouldnt.

 

[THE DUCK]

I am holding off on steam deck for Switch 2. I hear it's gonna be three ps5s and a series x duct taped together thanks to blast processing.

This is not believable because the duct tape would cover the screen.

 

[TAS]

Switch 2 will have DLSS and that's good enough for me.

 

[01011001]

I think what many people do not take into account is how powerful the current Switch hardware is in the first place.

Nintendo severely underclocks the Mariko SoC.

their current SOC could run with launch day Switch battery life at way higher clock speeds as it currently does. Nintendo simply didn't want to have a New 3DS situation this gen, even tho the current Switch hardware would be able to offer such a version of the Switch.

so you have to take that into account when talking about how powerful a newer chip can be, we should expect a 2x increase in performance every 2 years, maybe slightly less, maybe slightly more. (I would say less given that Nvidias mobile chips were neglected for a while)

so the current X1 Mariko vs Switch Clock Speeds

Switch Revision 1/Lite/OLED with Tegra X1+ SOC max clocks:
-CPU: 1.02ghz
-GPU: 0.768ghz / 393 GFLOPs (max speed when docked)

Mariko Tegra X1+ max clocks:
-CPU: 1.90ghz
-GPU: 1.267ghz / 649 GFLOPs

what we can see here is that the current Switch OLED/Lite and the first hardware revision could already reach 649 GFLOPs on the GPU with roughly the same power consumption as the launch model Switch. and the CPU performance could almost be doubled.
In essence, we already have a Switch Pro, Nintendo simply chose to not actually offer any performance enhancements with the new hardware in order to not split the systems

so even if the new Tegra used in a Switch 2 was only 2x as powerful than the Mariko X1 in the current models, you would instantly have at the very least Xbox One S performance.

if we expect a 2.5 or even 3x power increase we are above PS4 levels.
+ or course more modern feature set and general improvements due to more modern hardware

in conclusion, all we need is a 2.5x increase in GPU performance from the chip the Switch already uses to reach the same raw GPU power of the Steam Deck, a 3x increase and it's above the Deck.

the real question would then be, would Nintendo try to actually use the full potential of the SoC this time around? at least in docked mode?

 

[justiceiro]

On one side: you are talking to people that believe the current switch graphical capabilities is on the same ballpark of PS4. So, if switch 2 is like a half the power of a Xbox series s, they will tell you all games will perform the best on it.

On the other side: switch single handly saved tegra chips of being a niche product, specially on gameing space. If Nvidia values this and want their successor to consolidate it's position, they can use all their knowledge to give Nintendo a big edge. All consoles and portable PC today use AMD for graphics. If Nintendo manages to get Nvidia on board again, it go beyond most of regular folks expectations.

 

[Akt]

Let me reply to this gif the way we did it back in 2000s:

: P

 

[CuNi]

Last I heard, it's always been called "switch successor" and not switch 2. So for all we know, it might not even be a portable console and be a box again like current consoles. Considering it would be out at the earliest 4 years after XS and PS5, I don't see why it wouldn't be able to offer same performance for cheaper? I fully expect those consoles to drop in price by 2024.

Its only unrealistic if you assume it will be a literal switch 2, which i don't think it will be seeing how Nintendo tried this with the WiiU and failed. I'd think it will be something entirely different yet again, so it's hard to say if it will still have power constraints because of portability or go back to a static design that can use more power in a box.

 

[Tams]

OP, you're no potato, despite how salty your are.

 

[THE DUCK]

I still.think it would work fine to sell the switch as 2 parts, the portable for $299, and the enhanced dock for $199.......effectively a switch 2 and switch 2 pro at launch. Maybe a bundle for $399.

 

[jigglet]

It's not like Switch 2 is due out any time soon. In regular times, Nintendo hangs onto successful hardware for like 2-3 years longer than they really should. Right now with the chip shortage I could see them pushing this out to 5 years. So if a new model was due out in a few years, I could see that being extended by a few more. I'm not exaggerating when I say I could imagine seeing Steam Deck 3 before we see Switch 2.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Are people seriously thinking otherwise?

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

I'm in the Switch thread and Gaffers seem to be convinced that somehow the Switch 2 will be more powerful than a Steam Deck! Some people are saying it'll be like a PS5 in power!

THE HELL IS ACTUALLY GOING ON AT GAF!

Why don't people REMEMBER that Nintendo do not chase the graphics race? Why was it only one person in that thread who literally spoke some sense about this?

Nintendo tried to do that game with the GC. It failed. Done. They no longer do it. Gaf needs to remember this and STOP DRINKING THE NINTENDO COOL AID WTFFF!

Look just LOOK at the history of Nintendo! IT'S EASY TO SEE!

We will get something MAYBE at a little under PS4 level MAYBE.

CAN GAF PLEASE SEE SENSE!

THANK YOU!

Right now it's looking like it's going to be Nvidia Orin(Ampere with 6 Core Arm CPU) vs the decks Zen 2 and RDN3 combo. Normally Ampere handily beats RDNA2 overall, Zen 2 vs Arm I am not so sure. But I imagine the Deck will have a size, cooling and slight power advantage over the Switch.

 

[TheSHEEEP]

How does it even matter, considering all the Switch will be running is Nintendo games, while Steam Deck will be running (almost) the entire PC library?

My Steam Deck is going to be a portable emulation station with everything I can cram into it.
Maybe a few "normal" PC games as well, but that's what I got my main rig for.

Switch is entirely useless for any of those purposes.

 

[Danjin44]

 

[The Pleasure]

Why do Nintendo fans constantly do this to themselves?

 

[Chukhopops]

I don’t even find the current Switch hardware capabilities to be an issue.

Sure some ports from other machines were a bit painful to play because of low res or sub-30fps (Ys IX being a good example) but that doesn’t matter that much and most « native » games run and look completely fine for a handheld, either because they don’t push the hardware or look fine anyway (like Rise).

A Switch successor running games at 1080p handheld would be more than enough.

 

[Elysion]

The Steam Deck is 1.6 TF and absolutely gigantic; the Switch successor won’t be anywhere near as big (the OG Switch is already too big for a handheld imo). I‘m not even sure if Nintendo is going to be able to reach parity with the Steam Deck – nervermind being more powerful – considering that the Switch 2 will be significantly smaller.

smaller system > smaller battery > less power > less performance

I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s no more powerful than a basic XBox One (at least in handheld mode, which will be the baseline).

 

[mrcroket]

The Steam Deck is 1.6 TF and absolutely gigantic; the Switch successor won’t be anywhere near as big (the OG Switch is already too big for a handheld imo). I‘m not even sure if Nintendo is going to be able to reach parity with the Steam Deck – nervermind being more powerful – considering that the Switch 2 will be significantly smaller.

smaller system > smaller battery > less power > less performance

I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s no more powerful than a basic XBox One (at least in handheld mode, which will be the baseline).

AMD GPU and RDNA2 is waaay less efficient that newer mobile nvidia gpus (orin for example has 4.0 tf and 12 arm cpu cores), or even qualcomm (meta quest 2 have a 1.37 TF), also deck use a x64 cpu (even less power efficient). So yep, Nintendo can launch a switch 2 with more gpu power than deck

 

[darkangel-212559]

I feel like it's not Nintendo fans that do this, but people who are new to Nintendo and/or who haven't been around for a while, e.g. folks who dipped around the N64 or GCN days. I could be wrong though but I just feel like Nintendo fans like myself who've been invested in that companies products for some time are well aware that we won't get some super-powered console/handheld any time soon if ever.

This man knows what's going on. Glad you agree with me.

 

[darkangel-212559]

The Steam Deck is 1.6 TF and absolutely gigantic; the Switch successor won’t be anywhere near as big (the OG Switch is already too big for a handheld imo). I‘m not even sure if Nintendo is going to be able to reach parity with the Steam Deck – nervermind being more powerful – considering that the Switch 2 will be significantly smaller.

smaller system > smaller battery > less power > less performance

I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s no more powerful than a basic XBox One (at least in handheld mode, which will be the baseline).

This too.

ARISE SWITCH 2 WILL BE WEAK GAFFERS

ARISE AND JOIN THE FIGHT

 

[SJRB]

Who is expecting this anyway? When has a Nintendo console ever been more powerful than anything?

 

[darkangel-212559]

Who is expecting this anyway? When has a Nintendo console ever been more powerful than anything?

Loads of people. There was even a new thread created to argue with this thread. The cool aid is indeed being drunk.

 

[Boy bawang]

From the NVIDIA hack, we also know that this NVN2 device has 12 streaming multiprocessors, which is quite large. Even if Nintendo is very conservative with the clock speeds, this device should handily beat a base XBOX one or PS4, before DLSS is applied.
While I do not believe that they will reach Series S level of performance, I think that they aim to be close enough to receive downports from the current generation of console, a bit like games such as Witcher 3 and Dying Light exist on the current Switch. The Series S is a blessing for Nintendo in that regard, and DLSS could be an interesting equalizer given how well it performes even starting with a 540p image.
Once again, this is from a hack so it's not a rumor or anything like that, it's actual information. What remains to be seen is if this device being worked on is really going to end up being a consumer product.

 

[swarley64]

Sir, this is a Wendy’s

 

[winjer]

If the Switch 2 was to be released now, in 2022, I could see it being a bit slower than the Steam Deck.
But all rumors point to the Switch2 being release closer to 2042-2025.
By that time, the Steam Deck will be very old tech. And anything released then will be much more powerful.

Even today, the Steam Deck is nothing special, today It's made in TSMC´s N7. At a time when there is already N6, N5, N4 and N3 available.
It uses RDNA2 and Zen2. At a time when Zen4, Ada Lovelace and RDNA3 are just around the corner. Using N5.
In 2024-2025, even RDNA3, Ada Lovelace and Zen4, will be the old tech.

Even if Nintendo decides to use tech from a previous gen, like they did with the Switch, in 2024-2025, it will be much more powerful than the Steam Deck of today.

 

[Woopah]

From the NVIDIA hack, we also know that this NVN2 device has 12 streaming multiprocessors, which is quite large. Even if Nintendo is very conservative with the clock speeds, this device should handily beat a base XBOX one or PS4, before DLSS is applied.

This is an important fact that people need to take onboard, in addition to the existence ofb DLSS.

What are your thoughts on the Nvidia leak darkangel-212559 ? It points to the next device being more powerful than a Steam Deck and having DLSS.

 

[Kamina]

This thread should be converted into GAFs official Barbie Fanclub

 

[MrTentakel]

But will the Switch III be more powerful than the Steam Deck 2 ???????????

 

[sachos]

I hope Nintendo releases a home console only version for the Switch 2. Games ofcourse would still be developed with the portable version in mind, but a home console only Switch 2 would at least guarantee stable framerates and modern resolutions on a 4K display.

 

[vito_don_corleone_]

You never know. Nvidia Tegra Orin - which starts shipping this year - will have both higher TFLOP count and memory bandwidth compared to Steam Deck. It is even faster than PS4.

 

[TLZ]

But all rumors point to the Switch2 being release closer to 2042

 

[Kataploom]

Don't believe that person, by that time Switch will clearly be on the middle of its life cycle

 

[Sojiro]

This is not believable because the duct tape would cover the screen.

Ah, but the "duct tape" will be DLSS....

..at least God I hope DLSS is supported.

 

[Aldric]

This is an important fact that people need to take onboard, in addition to the existence ofb DLSS.

What are your thoughts on the Nvidia leak darkangel-212559 ? It points to the next device being more powerful than a Steam Deck and having DLSS.

He's not going to reply he's obviously shitposting.

 

[RAIDEN1]

Switch 2 doesn't need to be more powerful, Nintendo left the horse-power race in 2006...and never looked back, and even in the hand-held territory in 1989 their portable slaughtered the more "powerful" competition...(not saying the Switch 2 will do the same...)

 

[FireFly]

The Steam Deck is 1.6 TF and absolutely gigantic; the Switch successor won’t be anywhere near as big (the OG Switch is already too big for a handheld imo). I‘m not even sure if Nintendo is going to be able to reach parity with the Steam Deck – nervermind being more powerful – considering that the Switch 2 will be significantly smaller.

smaller system > smaller battery > less power > less performance

I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s no more powerful than a basic XBox One (at least in handheld mode, which will be the baseline).

I would guess that people in this thread are mainly referring to the docked mode, which Steam Deck doesn't have. In that context it depends how much heat the dock is able to disperse. Right now power consumption sits at ~11W, so we would be talking about a 3rd more power consumption for parity. If Switch 2 remains at 11W, I don't think it is impossible it could beat the Steam Deck, but it depends on the process Nintendo uses. Right now Ampere has similar power efficiency to RDNA 2, on a worse process. So moving to 5nm say, would be a huge jump. 5nm is more expensive per mm^2 than 7nm/6nm, but shouldn't be more expensive per transistor. So it wouldn't necessarily cost Nintendo any more, depending on what deals TSMC has in place. In the 2023/2024 timeframe it would roughly be where 20nm was in 2017 when the Switch launched, with CPUs/GPUs already on 3nm.

 

[darkangel-212559]

He's not going to reply he's obviously shitposting.

So sorry I literally have a life. Calm the fuck down.

 

[darkangel-212559]

This is an important fact that people need to take onboard, in addition to the existence ofb DLSS.

What are your thoughts on the Nvidia leak darkangel-212559 ? It points to the next device being more powerful than a Steam Deck and having DLSS.

Leaks are leaks but obviously if there is information that shows I was wrong on this occasion I would accept that. But who leaked it? Is it even real?

 

[Boy bawang]

So sorry I literally have a life. Calm the fuck down.

Well, you made a thread on a nerd forum to throw a tantrum because you disagree with some people on the possible specs of an unannounced videogame console...

 

[darkangel-212559]

Well, you made a thread on a nerd forum to throw a tantrum because you disagree with some people on the possible specs of an unannounced videogame console...

So? It's gaming. Let me have my weird nerd fun and have arguments with strangers on Nintendo. Don't take me so seriously.

 

[Boy bawang]

Leaks are leaks but obviously if there is information that shows I was wrong on this occasion I would accept that. But who leaked it? Is it even real?

It's not a leak. It's a hack. The info comes directly from Nvidia, though it was acquired by illegal means.

 

[cash_longfellow]

I'm in the Switch thread and Gaffers seem to be convinced that somehow the Switch 2 will be more powerful than a Steam Deck! Some people are saying it'll be like a PS5 in power!

THE HELL IS ACTUALLY GOING ON AT GAF!

Why don't people REMEMBER that Nintendo do not chase the graphics race? Why was it only one person in that thread who literally spoke some sense about this?

Nintendo tried to do that game with the GC. It failed. Done. They no longer do it. Gaf needs to remember this and STOP DRINKING THE NINTENDO COOL AID WTFFF!

Look just LOOK at the history of Nintendo! IT'S EASY TO SEE!

We will get something MAYBE at a little under PS4 level MAYBE.

CAN GAF PLEASE SEE SENSE!

THANK YOU!

Switch 2? Where is the announcement???….oh nvm

 

[Keihart]

To be fair, they'll probably try to breach the gap somewhat just to keep getting the ports even if at lower quality.
The switch had a lot of late ports and stuff.

If they wouldn't, they would just keep selling the same console with more "premium" revisions.

Also, who knows? unless your uncle works at nintendo of course.