• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Can people please understand that Switch 2 COULD be more powerful than Steam Deck?!

Stuart360

Member
I'm pretty sure i said it earlier in this thread (or a similar thread), and i'll say it again. Switch 2 at best will match PS4, but i wouldnt be surprised if its more XB1 level. So yeah its maybe 50/50 for me if it ends up beating Steam Deck.
 

01011001

Gold Member
Using modded Switches which is a fraction of one percent of the devices in the real world really doesn't tell us anything. It's doubtful the cooling solution is overengineered as that what come at a cost.

it's not the cooling solution that is overengineered, it is Nintendo basically only caring about mobile play and to keep the system quiet during that. and they then were too conservative with the Docked mode clock speeds as to not get compatibility issues during that. but like I said, people have been overclocking the shit out of the Switch and there are basically no issues.


I'm pretty sure i said it earlier in this thread (or a similar thread), and i'll say it again. Switch 2 at best will match PS4, but i wouldnt be surprised if its more XB1 level. So yeah its maybe 50/50 for me if it ends up beating Steam Deck.

yeah, if it matches PS4 it beats the Steam deck, if we assume the CPU cores won't be complete shit of course
 
Last edited:

Soapbox Killer

Grand Nagus
Isn't the Switch the only Nintendo console that was not a significant leap over the previous generation when it comes to graphics?

You can argue that GameCube to Wii was a 1/2 step but considering the tech focus on motion control.


The Next Switch should be a refined hybrid experience since Nintendo is dealing with a proven concept. Graphics will improve for the next console by a measurable amount.
 

Stuart360

Member
Isn't the Switch the only Nintendo console that was not a significant leap over the previous generation when it comes to graphics?

You can argue that GameCube to Wii was a 1/2 step but considering the tech focus on motion control.


The Next Switch should be a refined hybrid experience since Nintendo is dealing with a proven concept. Graphics will improve for the next console by a measurable amount.
Gamecube to Wii was def the first, and yes that gen jump was more about control than graphics but the Wii was basically a repackaged Gamecube.
 

mysticboy

Member
SteamDeck is $400 no dock and only 1/2 as powerful as PS4 Pro. And that's with price being the last thing Valve thought about.
 

Shut0wen

Member
There is no way its going to be as powerful as steam deck, if nintendo decides to carry on with nividia there going to use DLSS as its a much cheaper alternative, nintendo dont want to lose money with every console sale, switch will be slightly less powerful then series s, but honestly nintendo just need way more ram in whatever console they create
 

Shut0wen

Member
Is it really too much to ask for Nintendo's hardware to be more capable than sub-30fps @ 720P?

I get that they won't compete with PS/Xbox, but man, you're so much better off with a budget-PC and Dolphin at this point...
Isnt every Nintendo game not 60fps with the except of xenoblade series and age of clamity?
 

01011001

Gold Member
SteamDeck is $400 no dock and only 1/2 as powerful as PS4 Pro. And that's with price being the last thing Valve thought about.

it's less than 1/2 as powerful as a PS4 Pro (and less powerful than the base PS4) if we are talking GPU power. the CPU is way more powerful than the Pro's tho
 
Last edited:

Tams

Gold Member
we already know that the current Switch runs way cooler than it has to in docked. the hardware could handle way higher temps. maybe the fan would get a tiny bit louder if that was the case, but it wouldn't be an issue. Nintendo simply clocked the Switch really conservatively because they wanted to mitigate possible issues with drastic clock changes, but we now know that basically no game has issues with modded higher clocks
My Switch absolutely gets toasty and even a little noisy after several hours, especially in summer (even in a room with AC).

Nintendo have said they don't want to make a noisy console, it's in one of those Iwata Asks about the Wii development.

What some modders/overclockers do is irrelevant, as they are pushing hardware beyond what it was designed for, with all the attendant risks that entails.
 

01011001

Gold Member
My Switch absolutely gets toasty and even a little noisy after several hours, especially in summer (even in a room with AC).

Nintendo have said they don't want to make a noisy console, it's in one of those Iwata Asks about the Wii development.

What some modders/overclockers do is irrelevant, as they are pushing hardware beyond what it was designed for, with all the attendant risks that entails.

they have been pushing for a while now, and it seems to be not an issue really... and most do it on the original hardware since that one is the one you can easily soft-mod... and that Switch actually runs a hotter version of the Tegra X1 than the ones the newer Switch models use. so on an OLED Switch you could push clocks even higher technically
 
Last edited:
Its going to be more powerfull by alot, when Switch 2 is released, steamdeck its going to be tech 3 years old, and nvidia make the Switch, they are known for biggest jumps in pwrformance

But more then powerful, Switch 2 its going to be different, take for example this gen, Ps5 in theory is weaker, but it does many thing that outperform the xbox, and xbox does the same thing with ps5
 

Tams

Gold Member
they have been pushing for a while now, and it seems to be not an issue really... and most do it on the original hardware since that one is the one you can easily soft-mod... and that Switch actually runs a hotter version of the Tegra X1 than the ones the newer Switch models use. so on an OLED Switch you could push clocks even higher technically
Yeah, you say that, but how many people are 'they', and how long do they run their systems overclocked at a time? What is the sound level like? How are the consoles holding up? Can all Switches do that, or did those overclockers win the silicon lottery?

Those are all the aort of issues manufacturers like Nintendo have to take into account.
 

Soapbox Killer

Grand Nagus
There is no way its going to be as powerful as steam deck, if nintendo decides to carry on with nividia there going to use DLSS as its a much cheaper alternative, nintendo dont want to lose money with every console sale, switch will be slightly less powerful then series s, but honestly nintendo just need way more ram in whatever console they create
Wait, if it slightly less powerful than a Series S (and I think you might be right) doesn't that put it a head of the SteamDeck and by a fair bit or am I not understanding you?
 
I really think switch 2 will be a better piece of hardware than the steam deck.

The games Nintendo will make on this thing are going to be insane, seeing what they've achieved on 3 weak 1ghz cpu cores, 25gb/s bandwidth, it really is crazy it's got games like Luigi's mansion 3 and Mario Odyssey running on that.

We are going to see games that wouldn't port well to base PS4, just wait and see.
 
I really think switch 2 will be a better piece of hardware than the steam deck.

The games Nintendo will make on this thing are going to be insane, seeing what they've achieved on 3 weak 1ghz cpu cores, 25gb/s bandwidth, it really is crazy it's got games like Luigi's mansion 3 and Mario Odyssey running on that.

We are going to see games that wouldn't port well to base PS4, just wait and see.
Just to add to this, The base ps4 its fucking amazing even to this Day, and with Nintendo art and game design, I can see some amazing games
 

01011001

Gold Member
Yeah, you say that, but how many people are 'they', and how long do they run their systems overclocked at a time? What is the sound level like? How are the consoles holding up? Can all Switches do that, or did those overclockers win the silicon lottery?

Those are all the aort of issues manufacturers like Nintendo have to take into account.

given that the Tegra X1 used in the Switch is SEVERELY underclocked I think we can safely assume that the silicon lottery is not a factor here.
even with a modded Switch you can't clock the X1 to its actually rated clocks, at least not the graphics cores, I think the CPU can be clocked at stock X1 clocks
 

Tams

Gold Member
given that the Tegra X1 used in the Switch is SEVERELY underclocked I think we can safely assume that the silicon lottery is not a factor here.
even with a modded Switch you can't clock the X1 to its actually rated clocks, at least not the graphics cores, I think the CPU can be clocked at stock X1 clocks
Yes, but you need cooling to clock it higher and the current Switch design doesn't have good enough cooling. No dock is going to help much as it's the backplate and IHS that are the issues.

And higher clocks mean higher power consumption. For what is a handheld at least in part, you can see why they limited it.
 

01011001

Gold Member
Yes, but you need cooling to clock it higher and the current Switch design doesn't have good enough cooling. No dock is going to help much as it's the backplate and IHS that are the issues.

And higher clocks mean higher power consumption. For what is a handheld at least in part, you can see why they limited it.

the Mariko X1, which started being used since the first hardware revision, can clock almost 2x as high as the original X1 while running at the same temperature.
so a modern Switch could most likely run at 2x speed on the GPU and still be as cool as the og Switch at normal clocks.
 

Tams

Gold Member
the Mariko X1, which started being used since the first hardware revision, can clock almost 2x as high as the original X1 while running at the same temperature.
so a modern Switch could most likely run at 2x speed on the GPU and still be as cool as the og Switch at normal clocks.
The Mariko X1 was produced on a significantly better and smaller node. That's not overclocking; it's different (newer, better) hardware.

And Nintendo chose to go with reduced power consumption with it, so there's your answer.
 

Gamer79

Predicts the worst decade for Sony starting 2022
The Mariko X1 was produced on a significantly better and smaller node. That's not overclocking; it's different (newer, better) hardware.

And Nintendo chose to go with reduced power consumption with it, so there's your answer.
These people talking about Nintendo going state of the art are delusional. Nintendo hasn't played the power game since the gamecube. The successor may not be a switch 2 but a whole new idea. I can also assure you going by modern history Nintendo is not going to be putting any modern ground breaking hardware in their next system either.
 

daveonezero

Member
I’d laugh my ass off if Nintendo just release the 4DS as the successor to the Switch after all this.
A modern 3ds with no bevel oled would be sweet.

No joke I’d take a clamshell Switch any day.

Is it really too much to ask for Nintendo's hardware to be more capable than sub-30fps @ 720P?

I get that they won't compete with PS/Xbox, but man, you're so much better off with a budget-PC and Dolphin at this point...
You say it like games don’t run at 60fps or smoothly.

That’s like complaining your integrated graphics can’t run the latest titles.

Your expectation have to be realistic.
 
Last edited:

Kataploom

Member
A modern 3ds with no bevel oled would be sweet.

No joke I’d take a clamshell Switch any day.


You say it like games don’t run at 60fps or smoothly.

That’s like complaining your integrated graphics can’t run the latest titles.

Your expectation have to be realistic.
Almost all the most important Nintendo games are 900p-1080p 6 60fps ... The ones that aren't: Zelda, Xenoblade and some others by entry basis here and there.
 
I'm pretty sure i said it earlier in this thread (or a similar thread), and i'll say it again. Switch 2 at best will match PS4, but i wouldnt be surprised if its more XB1 level. So yeah its maybe 50/50 for me if it ends up beating Steam Deck.
Why are you speaking so definitively when you have nothing to back it up?
 

Stuart360

Member
Why are you speaking so definitively when you have nothing to back it up?
Because its Nintendo we are talking about here.
Look i'll put it another way, would you really be THAT surprised if Switch 2 ended up about 3 times as powerful as Switch 1?. If the answer is 'no' then you also need to realize that 3 times Switch power is around XB1 level.
So you see, 'PS4 at best' is not exactly a wild guess.
Knowing how Nintendo work, i couldnt really see Switch 2 being 5 times the power of Swich. I could see it maybe being around 4 times the power of Switch, which would be around PS4 level.
 
Last edited:

01011001

Gold Member
The Mariko X1 was produced on a significantly better and smaller node. That's not overclocking; it's different (newer, better) hardware.

And Nintendo chose to go with reduced power consumption with it, so there's your answer.

that first part of your comment is not even relevant. what us relevant is that the newer Switch models could run almost twice as fast with the same heat output as the og Switch
 
Because its Nintendo we are talking about here.
Look i'll put it another way, would you really be THAT surprised if Switch 2 ended up about 3 times as powerful as Switch 1?. If the answer is 'no' then you also need to realize that 3 times Switch power is around XB1 level.
So you see, 'PS4 at best' is not exactly a wild guess.
Knowing how Nintendo work, i couldnt really see Switch 2 being 5 times the power of Swich. I could see it maybe being around 4 times the power of Switch, which would be around PS4 level.
Why does it matter? You wouldn’t assume Switch can run Doom (2016) if you only looked at it’s specs. It’s a pointless argument until you see what devs do with it.
 

Stuart360

Member
Why does it matter? You wouldn’t assume Switch can run Doom (2016) if you only looked at it’s specs. It’s a pointless argument until you see what devs do with it.
Well it doesnt really, lets be honest. half the framerate, way lower resolution, vastly lower settings, pop in all over the place, smudge vision.

Thise kind of ports would be even worse with Switch 2 (if it even got any at all) becaue the difference vetween XSX/PS5 and Switch 2 will probably be considerably larger than the difference between XB1/PS4 and Switch.

Also you asked me a question, and i'answered it.
 

Boy bawang

Member
The switch 2 should release around 2024 or end of 2023 at the earliest.

The og switch released 4 years into the generation and was more powerful than a PS3. Hence, we shouldn't be surprised if the switch 2 is more powerful than a PS4, especially as mobile tech is slowly catching up and DLSS is a huge equalizer.
Those who claim otherwise have PTSD from the Wii.
 
I expect PS4 levels of GPU power with a much better CPU, and of course DLSS. It will be a great little console, superb in portable mode and still good enough on a 4K TV.
 
The Steam Deck is not that powerful. It's a N7 chip, made at a time when TSMC is already making N3.
It's using RDNA2, when RNDA3 is just around the corner. And it's using Zen2, when Zen4 is also around the corner.

By 2024-2025, anything can beat the Steam Deck, very easily. Be it form AMD or nVidia.
The idea that in 2024-2025 Nintendo can't build a cheap Switch2, that is several times more powerful that the current Steam Deck, is utter non-sense.

In 2024-2025, N3, Ada Lovelace, Zen4, RDNA3, will all be old tech. And they will all be much more advanced than the Steam Deck of today.
Won’t rdna 4 and zen 5 (possibly zen 6) be out by then?
 
Of course. Remember that the Steam Deck uses the N7 process node from TSMC. The N3 process starts mass production in the second half of 2022.
By 2024-2025 the N3 process will no longer be leading edge.

Now consider that N5 offers 40% power reduction over N7.
And N3 offers another 30% power reduction over N5.
I won’t lie you and a few others on his board motivated me to make an account to communicate and get in the conversation. Consistently excellent posts
 
If i had to guess, in terms of GPU next generation Switch could be around Xbox ONE S level, to account for battery life /price/undocked mode.

But doesn't mean this will be the same as an old Xbox ONE, CPU should be quite more powerful by now and that alone makes a big difference. RAM used for games would also be in larger capacity even if were 8GB total, no idea how they are going to deal with streaming data/storage space 🤷🏻‍♂️ i assume they want faster loading times, and some form of DLSS.

1080p screen

This all speculation of course i have no idea what they are planning( could be worse, could be better) but that's around what i expect, a modern, more efficient Xbox ONE S in tablet
What I was hoping for was base ps4 performance handheld and series s performance docked (maybe slightly below)
 

The Stig

Member
I also COULD win the lottery.

It is however, very unlikely.

In fact I dont think an actual switch 2 is coming for a LONG time. They will milk this hardware for years to come
 
No.

Look at Steamdeck form factor. Now look at Switch form factor. Look at Switch pricing. Now look at Steamdeck pricing.

Yeah that ain't happening.

If it comes within the next 2 years, it won't surpass Steamdeck.
Isn’t the switch oled near the same price as the deck?
 
it's not the cooling solution that is overengineered, it is Nintendo basically only caring about mobile play and to keep the system quiet during that. and they then were too conservative with the Docked mode clock speeds as to not get compatibility issues during that. but like I said, people have been overclocking the shit out of the Switch and there are basically no issues.




yeah, if it matches PS4 it beats the Steam deck, if we assume the CPU cores won't be complete shit of course
Crash team racing at 60fps on an overclocked switch is a dream, modded bdsp at 60fps with higher grade textures is also nice
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
even if it wasn't more powerful, DLSS would make the games look better anyways, if they improve their upscaling tech for lower resolutions. Imagine seeing a game that looks sharp as hell but is actually being rendered at 360p.... crazy
 
Yeah, you say that, but how many people are 'they', and how long do they run their systems overclocked at a time? What is the sound level like? How are the consoles holding up? Can all Switches do that, or did those overclockers win the silicon lottery?

Those are all the aort of issues manufacturers like Nintendo have to take into account.
The switch only starts getting loud at the absolute max clock even going 1 frequency higher still has it pretty quiet just slightly warmer and I’ve Ad a modded switch since 2020 used texture hacks on sw/sh, 60fps patches on several games like ctr and bdsp, etc
 

DragonNCM

Member
This is, very clearly, a direct response to that other thread
I posted this in said thread as a simple comment, but I just was in the mood to make this thread about it.

Thinking that the Switch 2 could be as powerful or even more powerful than the Steam Deck is not at all unrealistic. People look at the Switch and see a system barely more powerful than the Wii U, then just assume that the jump to the new system will not reach Steam Deck levels of performance.

so 2 things about that.

1: The Steam Deck is not as powerful as many seem to think it is. The Steam Deck is less powerful in some respects than the PS4, mainly the GPU can not quite keep up with the PS4. And we are talking base PS4 here btw.
The PS4 has a 1.8TF GPU with consistent clock speeds that never change, while the Steam Deck has a 1.6TF GPU with variable clock speeds that can throttle under load.
It does have a decent CPU and enough Memory to perform very well, and it can reach 60fps in games where the PS4 could not, be it at a way lower resolution/graphical fidelity.

2: The Hardware inside the Switch is not a weak as some seem to think.
First of all it outperforms the Wii U and Xbox 360 quite a bit, either allowing for higher framerates or higher resolutions than on those consoles in similar or the same games.
All of this while also having a more modern feature set that can handle modern engines which would not even be able to run on 360 or PS3.​

But most importantly, we have to look at the actual hardware that Nvidia had available since at least back in 2019... namely the Tegra X1+, codename Mariko, which is the SoC used in all current Switch models since 2019

This Tegra X1+ could have easily been used to create a Nintendo Switch Pro, with a big boost in GPU and CPU performance, but Nintendo simply used it due to cost reduction and to have longer battery life.
How powerful is the Tegra X1+ when actually used to it's fullest? well, look at the stats below

Switch max clock speed:
-CPU: 1.02ghz
-GPU: 0.768ghz / 393 GFLOPs (max speed when docked)

Mariko Tegra X1+ max rated clock speed:
-CPU: 1.90ghz
-GPU: 1.267ghz / 649 GFLOPs

again, this is the same chip that is IN EVERY current Switch model and has been since 2019.


Let us assume Nvidia and Nintendo are designing the new console, let us also assume the WORST CASE SCENARIO possible, and that is that Nintendo uses an SoC that is merely double as performant as the Tegra X1+
Basically we are assuming that since 2019, the best Nvidia has to offer now, or in 1 to 2 years when the Switch 2 will release, is a chip that is 2x as powerful.
That would instantly mean 1.3 TF of GPU power and most likely way more performant CPU cores.

so in this worst case scenario we see that the Switch 2 would "only" reach Xbox One S (yes S not FAT) GPU performance
This is of course if Nintendo would use this Worst Case Scenario Chip at it's full speeds available, but still...

So worst case we will probably see a Switch 2 with the GPU power of an Xbox One S, with more modern features than the One S, and a better CPU than the One S.
This would still be below the Steam Deck tho of course.
but remember, this is the worst case possible imo... any wiggle-room above that and that 1.6TF Steam Deck will be very close indeed. If we get a 2.5x increase over the X1+ it would be above the Deck at 1.62TF, if the new tegra is 3x as powerful as the X1+ we are at 1.94TF and have at that point passed the PS4 in raw power.


IMO the real question will be if Nvidia and Nintendo will make use of Nvidia's newer technology with Tensor Cores and RT Cores. The inclusion of both would mean that even at a lower raster performance the Switch 2 could still keep up or even eclipse the Steam Deck in visual quality and performance.
DLSS and better RT hardware could mean games could run or look better on Switch 2 than on Steam Deck.

all of this is of course speculation, and I am in no way saying that any of this will happen, but what I am saying is that it is ridiculous to assume that there is no way that the Switch 2 would possibly reach Steam Deck levels of performance. Especially considering that Valve can not push their profit margins as low as Nintendo with it's higher production capacity and with the amount of first party games they sell every week. Mario Kart 8 hasn't left the top 20 charts in what feels like a decade...

Remember, all Nvidia needs is a 3x jump in GPU power and a reasonable jump in CPU performance to easily outpace the PS4 with their SoC for the Switch 2.
as a comparison the jump from Wii U to Switch is 176GF to 393GF, a 2.2x increase in GPU performance, and that was going from a home console to a tablet sized hybrid that doesn't even use the full power of its hardware
 
Thise kind of ports would be even worse with Switch 2 (if it even got any at all) becaue the difference vetween XSX/PS5 and Switch 2 will probably be considerably larger than the difference between XB1/PS4 and Switch.
The gap will be smaller this time. Much smaller, perceptually.
 
Would laugh so hard if its a smaller nm same chip with 50% overclock and dlss support and they call it a day.
That would be extremely counter productive, the r&d to bolt on tensor cores to the old Maxwell chip would make no sense whatsoever.

It will be a custom (smaller) version of one of the post tx2 chips.
 
Top Bottom