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Can I be honest here...I don’t think the Xbox Series S is going to last very long into the generation.

NickFire

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Did they? IIRC, it was just some no-name site who reported it from unnamed sources. It makes no sense looking at the visuals which look identical to GT Sports. The game was always a PS4 title.
Even if it was on an official channel, I would call BS on the claim that it was recently decided to go cross platform. If they claimed some sort of mistake in originally suggesting it was exclusive then I would give that claim some consideration but would still be suspect. The length of time it takes for games to get ported from PS4 to PS5 just seek WAY too long to make me believe they can easily and quickly go backwards.
 
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Yes but dont forget with the series S it has a very capable CPU a very capable GPU and a fast SSD, the console is meant to be a cut down gaming console but will in no way need to scale to the level of what they need to do with GT7 on PS4
The Series S GPU sits firmly in the last generation... People can argue all they want that all the other aspects of the console are "next-gen", its lacking memory and much slower GPU holds it back. As we have seen before some games need to have their resolution cut down to sub HD resolutions to work on the S, some games have more frame rate drops too, even an old 1080p set will show not

But my comment was about how a game like GT could scale all the way to the base PS4, some games can scale all the way to whatever you need them to, others will need to be modified in a very significant way to work on older hardware.

As an example I tried the UE5 demo "The market of light" falls in this category as well--I tried it on different speed SSDs if you go from 3.2GB/s to 1.3 the difference is "striking". On the slower SSD when the camera changes angle you see the assets pop-in (very fast, but still), on the faster SSD you need to make some serious efforts to notice it, I suspect that if I had a PCIe 4.0 drive it would be even more subtle... A game like Ratchet and Clank uses the same kind of dynamic loading, that scales only up to a point, its structure requires it, I doubt it's the case for GT.
 

Bernd Lauert

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We hardware sales figures for the US, UK, Japan and other parts of Europe (Spain, Italy Germany, France).

Show us where it's selling well.
Do we? Should be easy to sum up the number of Series S consoles sold then. Yet I've never seen a number, only estimates.
 

phil_t98

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The Series S GPU sits firmly in the last generation... People can argue all they want that all the other aspects of the console are "next-gen", its lacking memory and much slower GPU holds it back. As we have seen before some games need to have their resolution cut down to sub HD resolutions to work on the S, some games have more frame rate drops too, even an old 1080p set will show not

But my comment was about how a game like GT could scale all the way to the base PS4, some games can scale all the way to whatever you need them to, others will need to be modified in a very significant way to work on older hardware.

As an example I tried the UE5 demo "The market of light" falls in this category as well--I tried it on different speed SSDs if you go from 3.2GB/s to 1.3 the difference is "striking". On the slower SSD when the camera changes angle you see the assets pop-in (very fast, but still), on the faster SSD you need to make some serious efforts to notice it, I suspect that if I had a PCIe 4.0 drive it would be even more subtle... A game like Ratchet and Clank uses the same kind of dynamic loading, that scales only up to a point, its structure requires it, I doubt it's the case for GT.

Yeah but ther SSD in the serides S ain’t that slow so you wont see that type of pop in. End of the day its a console aimed at a different crowd that’s on these type of forums
 
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vaibhavpisal

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Yeah but ther SSD in the serides S ain’t that slow so you wont see that type of pop in. End of the day its a console aimed at a different crowd that’s on these type of forums

Series S SSD speed to fill entire RAM pool is similar to PS5.

Cause it needs to fill only 8gb vs 13 gb.

Also it's processor is more potent cause it's targeting 1080p, a quarter or resolution at same processing power.
 
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Yeah but ther SSD in the serides S ain’t that slow so you wont see that type of pop in. End of the day its a console aimed at a different crowd that’s on these type of forums
Yes, but the resolution will be so low that you will not see the details, the frame rate will drop so hard it will make the game less enjoyable.

Also about that SSD, once you upgrade it the S is more expensive than the series X, and it's so small that it's border line useless, I ran the numbers with a list of game sizes I found on a gaming site (can't be bothered to recall the name.... the numbers are what's important here)

PS5 VS Xbox Series X, game sizes​

  • Control: 25.7 vs 43.6
  • Hitman 3: 61.9 vs 77.8
  • Subnautica: 3.8 vs 8.3
  • Crash Bandicoot 4: It’s About Time: 20.0 vs 28.0
  • Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 1 e 2: 23.3 vs 31.9
  • Marvel’s Avengers: 74.1 vs 116.6
  • Assassin’s Creed Valhalla: 41.8 vs 72.5
  • Watch Dogs Legion: 50.6 vs 61.1
  • Immortals Fenyx Rising: 22.3 vs 32.9
  • Borderlands 3: 51.1 vs 63.8
  • DIRT 5: 50.9 vs 63.3
  • Mortal Shell: 4.6 vs 8.6
Then ran some numbers myself:

Total size:
PS5:
430.1 GB
Xbox Series X/S: 608.4 GB

Free space on new console:
PS5:
667 GB
Series X: 802 GB
Series S: 364 GB

Game sizes to storage ratio:
PS5:
64.5 %
Series X: 75.8 %
Series S: 167 %

If you get this machine to take advantage of a service like gamepass and save money and access all these games it makes no sense, you will spend your days juggling games in and out of the console... If you upgrade the storage to resolve the issue you will not only have a lower performance and last gen looking games, but it will have cost you more than if you would have gotten the true next-gen console.

The only people this console is a real upgrade for are those that have been stuck with the base Xbox One (not really base PS4), even then... it's a pretty small upgrade (faster load times, yapedi woo)... if these people cared for higher performance they would have gotten a One X a long time ago.

You can point to the pluses, they are there... but when making a decision about the "value" of something you also have to weight in the counter points.
 

SlimySnake

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I think you need to re look at both games as GT7 looks miles ahead of GTsport and I am a GTsport fan
GT Sports


GT7



GT Sports



GT7



There is very little difference.
 

Goalus

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With xCloud being available as an app on Xbox, does it matter, especially the storage space? Whoever buys an S will probably be fine with subscribing to Game Pass, and xCloud is even more convenient.
 

vaibhavpisal

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Yes, but the resolution will be so low that you will not see the details, the frame rate will drop so hard it will make the game less enjoyable.

Also about that SSD, once you upgrade it the S is more expensive than the series X, and it's so small that it's border line useless, I ran the numbers with a list of game sizes I found on a gaming site (can't be bothered to recall the name.... the numbers are what's important here)

PS5 VS Xbox Series X, game sizes​

  • Control: 25.7 vs 43.6
  • Hitman 3: 61.9 vs 77.8
  • Subnautica: 3.8 vs 8.3
  • Crash Bandicoot 4: It’s About Time: 20.0 vs 28.0
  • Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 1 e 2: 23.3 vs 31.9
  • Marvel’s Avengers: 74.1 vs 116.6
  • Assassin’s Creed Valhalla: 41.8 vs 72.5
  • Watch Dogs Legion: 50.6 vs 61.1
  • Immortals Fenyx Rising: 22.3 vs 32.9
  • Borderlands 3: 51.1 vs 63.8
  • DIRT 5: 50.9 vs 63.3
  • Mortal Shell: 4.6 vs 8.6
Then ran some numbers myself:

Total size:
PS5:
430.1 GB
Xbox Series X/S: 608.4 GB

Free space on new console:
PS5:
667 GB
Series X: 802 GB
Series S: 364 GB

Game sizes to storage ratio:
PS5:
64.5 %
Series X: 75.8 %
Series S: 167 %

If you get this machine to take advantage of a service like gamepass and save money and access all these games it makes no sense, you will spend your days juggling games in and out of the console... If you upgrade the storage to resolve the issue you will not only have a lower performance and last gen looking games, but it will have cost you more than if you would have gotten the true next-gen console.

The only people this console is a real upgrade for are those that have been stuck with the base Xbox One (not really base PS4), even then... it's a pretty small upgrade (faster load times, yapedi woo)... if these people cared for higher performance they would have gotten a One X a long time ago.

You can point to the pluses, they are there... but when making a decision about the "value" of something you also have to weight in the counter points.

Why waste this much time to do research, just to say it has small hard drive?

On my series s, I have these games installed currently with 3 gb free

Doom Eternal
Prey
Gears 5
Nier Automata
Dragon Quest 11 S
Aragami 2
Hellblade
Halo Infinite beta
Back 4 Blood preload

I have plenty to play. Never ran into storage issues. If you really need to have more games installed at same time, what exactly are you gonna do with them?

Definitely won't be able to play them.
 

Ev1L AuRoN

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It makes little sense in rich countries, but here in Brazil it's a godsend for a lot of people, a PS5 or XSX can cost 5x the minimum wage, most families here live on $350 and the PS5 costs around $US 930...

Playing in sub-native resolution is the least of the problem, a lot of people still have a 1080p tv anyways...
 

Riky

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The Series S GPU sits firmly in the last generation...
The only people this console is a real upgrade for are those that have been stuck with the base Xbox One (not really base PS4)

Really bad trolling.

The Series S GPU is leaps ahead of the PS4 and X1 in power efficiency, Ray Tracing Hardware, Tier 2 VRS support, Sampler Feedback Streaming support, Mesh Shaders support.

Series S also supports Dolby Vision, VRR and ALLM.
 
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Really bad trolling.

The Series S GPU is leaps ahead of the PS4 and X1 in power efficiency, Ray Tracing Hardware, Tier 2 VRS support, Sampler Feedback Streaming support, Mesh Shaders support.

Series S also supports Dolby Vision, VRR and ALLM.
Wow, that's a lot of buzz words!

1 - When I say its GPU is not capable I am not talking about its buzzwords capabilities, but the benefits it brings to the table for people looking for an upgrade.

2 - Let's be real here: if your TV supports VRR and you have a Dolby capable setup you don't buy a Series S, neither do you watch movies on DVD.
 

Riky

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Wow, that's a lot of buzz words!

1 - When I say its GPU is not capable I am not talking about its buzzwords capabilities, but the benefits it brings to the table for people looking for an upgrade.

2 - Let's be real here: if your TV supports VRR and you have a Dolby capable setup you don't buy a Series S, neither do you watch movies on DVD.

There not "buzzwords" they are real features, don't try to downplay facts.

Saying the Series S isn't an upgrade over the PS4 GPU is just trolling.
 
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There not "buzzwords" they are real features, don't try to downplay facts.

Saying the Series S isn't an upgrade over the PS4 GPU is just trolling.
It's not a worthwhile upgrade if you prefer.

The buzzwords "features" are worthless if they bring nothing worthwhile to the table, look at the results, you can't even be sure that games run at 1080p (MS marketed 1440p gaming for this console, if you want to play the buzzwords game)... and compared to the real next-gen machines they often drop more frames.

Features for the sake of features serve no one, if you buy a cheap console to save money then you probably don't have the VRR capable TV, nor do you have the proper Dolby sound system... if you have a 1080p TV it's unlikely to even support HDR in the most basic way.
 

Md Ray

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Everyone knows there are differences in the hardware, but that's not the same thing as the hardware missing features. The fact that other developers were able to get their games running on Series S with hardware features that this developer couldn't manage to incorporate is the grain of salt you need to take this story with. Developer blames the hardware is a tale as old as time.
No two games/engines use hardware resources equally. Just because 4A Games got ray tracing to run in Metro Exodus on Series S doesn't mean every other developer will. Id Tech 7 engine could be using the hardware in different ways, it could be using more bandwidth, more memory, far more than what's available on the S than Metro Exodus's 4A engine did to do the same RT calculations even with optimizations in place, it's a known fact that RT is very mem intensive. There are differences in texture, model quality. DOOM Eternal's asset quality definitely looks a lot better in comparison which is evident when looking at the memory utilization on PC even without turning RT on. So it is likely they had to give up RT in favor of higher-quality assets because having both could be putting more burden on the Series S's tiny memory & bandwidth. I don't know why you people are in denial despite well-reputed devs like Remedy and Id Software speaking up about its shortcomings.
 
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Riky

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It's not a worthwhile upgrade if you prefer.

The buzzwords "features" are worthless if they bring nothing worthwhile to the table, look at the results, you can't even be sure that games run at 1080p (MS marketed 1440p gaming for this console, if you want to play the buzzwords game)... and compared to the real next-gen machines they often drop more frames.

Features for the sake of features serve no one, if you buy a cheap console to save money then you probably don't have the VRR capable TV, nor do you have the proper Dolby sound system... if you have a 1080p TV it's unlikely to even support HDR in the most basic way.

Saying there is no worthwhile upgrade to last gen consoles is not just trolling it's basically a lie.

Mad Max 30fps on PS4, 120fps on Series S
Far Cry 5 30fps on PS4, 60fps on Series S
Watch Dogs 2 30fps on PS4, 60fps on Series S

Going to more recent games

Doom Eternal 120fps on Series S
Metro Exodus 60fps with Ray Tracing Series S
Watch Dogs Legion 60fps on Series S
Valhalla 60fps on Series S
Psychonauts 2 120fps on Series S
Gears Of War 5 120fps on Series S

That's just off the top of my head, saying that doubling or even quadrupling of framerates isn't a worthwhile upgrade is ignorant.
 

Alebrije

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You do no need the Seagate memory to save games on the XSS. An external drive will do just fine. You clearly don't know much about the system.

Yep you can use an external hard drive , this is not news...but not at the same performance as the SSD.

I have the Xbone one X so an S has some adventages but not enought to move. Maybe by 2022 when more games will be just for Series S/X. I own most of Microsoft consoles and have Gamepass so its clear that the Series S SSD is very small unless you only have 20-30 gig games...but if you want to have The Division 2 and Call of Duty o S the space of its SSD becomes a factor.

The true is that if Series X would be avaliable the same way S is now...most people would get the X...a lot of people got the S because there is no option.
 
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Schmick

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It's not a worthwhile upgrade if you prefer.

The buzzwords "features" are worthless if they bring nothing worthwhile to the table, look at the results, you can't even be sure that games run at 1080p (MS marketed 1440p gaming for this console, if you want to play the buzzwords game)... and compared to the real next-gen machines they often drop more frames.

Features for the sake of features serve no one, if you buy a cheap console to save money then you probably don't have the VRR capable TV, nor do you have the proper Dolby sound system... if you have a 1080p TV it's unlikely to even support HDR in the most basic way.
Its getting to the point now where I think you need to familiarise yourself with the sticky thread.
 

Schmick

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Yep you can use an external hard drive , this is not news...but not at the same performance as the SSD.

I have the Xbone one X so an S has some adventages but not enought to move. Maybe by 2022 when more games will be just for Series S/X. I own most of Microsoft consoles and have Gamepass so its clear that the Series S SSD is very small unless you only have 20-30 gig games...but if you want to have The Division 2 and Call of Duty o S the space of its SSD becomes a factor.

The true is that if Series X would be avaliable the same way S is now...most people would get the X...a lot of people got the S because there is no option.
This is too speculative.

Anyway, what will be interesting is when xCloud is available to consoles, how people's spending patterns will change. I wonder if people will try xCloud and decide that they don't need to upgrade their console. At least not in the short term.
 
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Saying there is no worthwhile upgrade to last gen consoles is not just trolling it's basically a lie.

Mad Max 30fps on PS4, 120fps on Series S
Far Cry 5 30fps on PS4, 60fps on Series S
Watch Dogs 2 30fps on PS4, 60fps on Series S

Going to more recent games

Doom Eternal 120fps on Series S
Metro Exodus 60fps with Ray Tracing Series S
Watch Dogs Legion 60fps on Series S
Valhalla 60fps on Series S
Psychonauts 2 120fps on Series S
Gears Of War 5 120fps on Series S

That's just off the top of my head, saying that doubling or even quadrupling of framerates isn't a worthwhile upgrade is ignorant.
Yes, however.... the games still run at lower resolution.

I would not put my money in there... and thankfully you can't force me to do so.
 
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Its getting to the point now where I think you need to familiarise yourself with the sticky thread.
Yes, how?
This is what MS claims to be the console's performance target:


Performance "target", MS is setting an expectation.... if it really did run most games at or around 1440p 60fps it would be amazing (one would even wonder why there would be a need for a better console at all)... but it struggles to keep 60fps at 1080p.
 

Riky

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Yes, however.... the games still run at lower resolution.

I would not put my money in there... and thankfully you can't force me to do so.

It was marketed at a lower resolution.
Don't worry I don't intend to force you to do anything 😂
 
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Riky

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Yes, how?
This is what MS claims to be the console's performance target:


Performance "target", MS is setting an expectation.... if it really did run most games at or around 1440p 60fps it would be amazing (one would even wonder why there would be a need for a better console at all)... but it struggles to keep 60fps at 1080p.

How many games run on the more expensive consoles at a true 4k 60?
 

SkylineRKR

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On resolution I guess I expected more from the SS but on 120hz I didn't expect it to offer so many. Still there are some games like Yakuza LaD running 1440p on it, which is 1080p on One X and Pro. And offers a 60fps mode at 900p to boot which still looks fine and plays excellent. RE Village demo was 1440p/60 or weird ass 45fps with RT on. It didn't look much worse than PS5 (the version I bought). I believe both Pro and One X don't break 1080p in 60fps mode. These were new games, and delivered the advertised performance on SS. A game like Flight Sim, well I think its 1440p on Series X. So SS is in no way going to match that.

Don't forget both PS5 and SX often don't exactly meet their 4k advertised resolution either. The same goes for Series S but it seems to get the most flak for it?
 

Hezekiah

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With xCloud being available as an app on Xbox, does it matter, especially the storage space? Whoever buys an S will probably be fine with subscribing to Game Pass, and xCloud is even more convenient.
So every Series S owner will be a GamePass Ultimate subscriber? Bit of a reach, especially with the lag some people find on it, and if you're on a right budget I guess you're more likely to have crappy broadband....
 
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Neo_game

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Absolutely. In fact there is no way PS5 and SX are going to last more than 5yrs either. I think they will have to release Pro version in 3yrs time. SS should get phased out. PS5 and SX would be the entry level console doing something like 1080P 60fps with RT.
 

twilo99

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There’s nothing that the X can do that the S can’t do at a lower resolution. They share the same architecture and SOC, just with less power. It’s not going to ever hold anything back.

I don't think most people realize this fact.. It almost seems like they think the series S is a PS3 or something
 
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All of the most popular consoles have 'sold gangbusters' at their original price.

I find it hard to believe that an already cheap console that offers GamePass for peanuts is going to suddenly start selling at a significantly higher rate at this magic $200 price point. Especially when its limitations are only going to become more and more pronounced over time.
199$ is the magic number. That's a fact.
It was actually initially marketed as a 1440p machine 😁. That's since been downgraded to 1080p. Already some games are dipping below 720p....
And ps5 and xsx marketed as 4k but see under 1080p especially ps5.
 
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How many games run on the more expensive consoles at a true 4k 60?
I have no problem with MS selling the series X or the One X as 4K capable, there is a technical truth to the information... 1440p is a completely random number, the Series S outputs to 4K as well, so even calling it a 4K console would be grounded in reality, maybe even saying that it targets 1080p for gaming would make more sense, it's closer to the ground truth and what people experience with it.
How many games run on the more expensive consoles at a true 4k 60?
You are right, but it seems like a fair assessment of what people can expect, or at least it's close enough in most cases, but if we want to be consistent they should probably talk about the 8k output and be done with giving numbers for things they don't control.

The point is that MS should have set reasonable expectations, if the series X is marketed as a 4k60 machine, the Series S should not be marketed as a more than 1080p (if and when it even reaches that).
 
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Derktron

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Absolutely. In fact there is no way PS5 and SX are going to last more than 5yrs either.
We haven't even started with next-gen just yet when last-gen games are still being considered when making a game. That is the issue here. We haven't even seen the full motion of what these machines can do due to that reason
 
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I have no problem with MS selling the series X or the One X as 4K capable, there is a technical truth to the information... 1440p is a completely random number, the Series S outputs to 4K as well, so even calling it a 4K console would be grounded in reality, maybe even saying that it targets 1080p for gaming would make more sense, it's closer to the ground truth and what people experience with it.

You are right, but it seems like a fair assessment of what people can expect, or at least it's close enough in most cases, but if we want to be consistent they should probably talk about the 8k output and be done with giving numbers for things they don't control.

The point is that MS should have set reasonable expectations, if the series X is marketed as a 4k60 machine, the Series S should not be marketed as a more than 1080p (if and when it even reaches that).
I think mathematically xss is as close to 1440p as xsx is 4k
 
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Riky

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I have no problem with MS selling the series X or the One X as 4K capable, there is a technical truth to the information... 1440p is a completely random number, the Series S outputs to 4K as well, so even calling it a 4K console would be grounded in reality, maybe even saying that it targets 1080p for gaming would make more sense, it's closer to the ground truth and what people experience with it.

You are right, but it seems like a fair assessment of what people can expect, or at least it's close enough in most cases, but if we want to be consistent they should probably talk about the 8k output and be done with giving numbers for things they don't control.

The point is that MS should have set reasonable expectations, if the series X is marketed as a 4k60 machine, the Series S should not be marketed as a more than 1080p (if and when it even reaches that).

Since when has marketing not talked about upper limits? Bit naive to think it wouldn't.
We've just had Psychonauts 2 at 1680p 60fps on Series S, so in that case it exceeds the marketing.
 

DarkMage619

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I do. Watch his recent DOOM interview from two months ago with Digital Foundry where John brings up Series S asking why ray tracing is missing from that console, Billy replies that they tried RT out on Series S, even with optimization, they couldn't so they chose to drop RT altogether. Then he adds, there are differences in the hardware, y'know" in other words, even with optimization the S wasn't capable of RT in DOOM due to "differences in the HW" i.e. hardware limitation. He initially brought up two major issues with the console: one was split memory banks with drastically slower speeds (bandwidth) which he said will be a major issue, the second big issue was the amount of memory itself, and how much lower it was.

And now we see the results of those issues, no RT from his game on the console and he was right from the get-go. We know the game already makes use of VRS tier 2 on Xbox (even the PC version doesn't), who knows maybe they're even using SFS here which would come under the "optimizations" he spoke of. 🤷‍♂️ We won't know until they do something like a SIGGRAPH or GDC talk. Still, features like SFS are only going to get you so far, it's a memory-saving feature, not an infinite memory feature. At the end of the day, you are going to hit a wall one way or another. IMO MS should have added a bit more memory and slightly more BW to avoid situations like this, and to tackle the issues that Billy brought up. After all, this is the talented id Software we're talking about... MS 1P studio, not some no-name dev company from the industry.
Right now there are NO games that are using SFS so to declare it won't be useful is way premature. Optimization never meant that the XSS would use every graphical feature. The ratio of fast to slower memory on the XSS is different because its an 80:20 split over the 60:40 split on the XSX. It has more of the faster memory so again for the resolution the system is targeting it won't be a problem for it to run games with less graphical detail.

You'd also be shocked to hear that Far Cry 6 won't have raytracing on the PS5 or any current gen console. I suppose that proves that developers will ultimately decide what features they will incorporate in their games on the hardware they have available. Just because the XSS is capable of using raytracing doesn't mean that ALL games on the XSS will have it just like ALL PS5 and XSX games won't have it either. In addition when did raytracing become a core feature that all games need? Returnal, a PS5 only game that isn't being 'held back' by the XSS, doesn't have raytracing and renders internally at 1080p. Does this mean the PS5 won't make it to the end of the generation? I'd suspect you'd disagree.

Your concern about the XSS doesn't strike me as genuine. Let me know when an XSS version of a game is missing characters, levels, or has worse enemy AI. These are the core tenants of a game not graphical features MS ALWAYS said the XSS would have less of. This is just another case of you holding the XSS to a standard you don't hold more expensive consoles to. It's pretty odd.

I'm saying your definition of similar "features" is flawed as these machines share more similarities than they do differences and the difference is only incremental improvements which affect game experience. The difference between an SSD and a HDD is speed. The difference between raytracing in a game and no raytracing in a game is GPU power. The difference between being able to install a game or not is storage space. These aren't have or doesn't have "features" these are does it have enough.
You are thinking of features as some kind of have or doesn't have and looking blindly at only the similarities but even then there is the very basic one where it doesn't have disc support.

The XSS has "features" just as a PS4 has "features" but its features are underpowered/slower or not enough. When a game has no raytracing on XSS but does on a XSX/PS5 are you missing a feature? When a PS4 game runs at 30fps but a PS5 one at 60fps are you missing a feature?
Nope. Your whole comparison is flawed because the PS4 and PS5 are NOT from the same generation AT ALL. The PS4 lacks features the PS5 has entirely and it has nothing to do with it's hard drive or loading a game. People here keep comparing the XSS to the Switch and PS4 and it's clear they have no idea what the XSS is capable of or even what generation it belongs to. People also call MS liars when not every game on the XSS has raytracing which was never claimed. Raytracing isn't a core gameplay feature it is a graphical feature. The same features that would be compromised on a device with lower graphical capabilities.

Quick resume, FPS boost, SFS are core features of the current generation Xbox. My point about features is that if someone is going to accuse MS of being misleading it should be very easy to show the missing features the XSS has when compared to the XSX. Just like I can show the missing features the PS4 has compared to the PS5. No one has been able to point out ONE missing feature outside of the optical drive which I'm certain MS clearly stated was NOT there. Again people are more interested in inventing issues with the XSS that do not exist.

It was actually initially marketed as a 1440p machine 😁. That's since been downgraded to 1080p. Already some games are dipping below 720p....
PS5 was marketed as a 4K console. Returnal renders internally at 1080p. :messenger_sunglasses: The 1440p did not imply ALL games would run at that resolution and you know it. More disingenuous nonsense.

Erm...look at the original post. He literally says he thinks Series S in its current form isnt likely to last very far into the generation. Is this decline likely to happen sooner or later if sales continue to be poor? 💩

Of course I also mentioned the lack of storage space, RAM, aswell as the limited GPU power of the console and you were 'Nah it'll be right'. Then you got triggered, started console warring and talking about 1440p support, cloud saves, GamePass and having to pay for PS5 upgrades. And you've got the balls to talk about obfuscation and histrionics 😄.

And of course the logical conclusion - PS5 is lacking some minor features some of which can easily be added, meanwhile Series S is simply underpowered as OP and others suggest, and the hardware specs for this original revision can't be changed (outside of the Seagate expansion), and will be really chugging along once proper next-gen games get more demanding with less resolution and worse frame rates as a result.

At least you've stopped talking nonsense about the Xbox brand in the European market and that being the main reason for Series S potentially being a flop here 😁. But spitting your dummy isn't going to improve sales, and it's not going to help its prospects going forward.
If the concern is sincere about the XSS and it's longevity then the same issues could be applied to the PS5 or even the Switch. In a world where the Switch and even the poorly designed X1 can get support an entire generation the idea of the XSS not making it is laughable. No matter how you slice it the underpowered XSS can do things the PS5 cannot. It has MORE 120 fps titles and features. The XSS remains a superior value and your feelings won't change that. I remain grateful that MS doesn't base it's decisions on what smaller markets do.

The PS is a bigger brand globally and people in Europe are not going to rush out to buy a casual console from the company that just came off of the X1. Your nonsense about the 360 is just that. That was TWO generations ago and in business you are only as good as your last product. Well MS last product was the X1 and it didn't set the world on fire so there is no wonder the Series consoles aren't selling as well. Enthusiasts are going to grab the XSX when it is available because they are enthusiasts. Casuals won't grab the XSS in Europe because they aren't going to care about the company who last delivered the X1. Again your commentary doesn't apply to the N. America, the biggest market, so again your reasoning that the power of the XSS is the why it doesn't sell as in Europe is completely flawed. It is a pure popularity contest. You do seem quite proud to point out that PS is more popular globally and if that makes you sleep better at night I'm happy for you. It still has no baring on the topic on whether or not the XSS will make it to the end of the generation. It will but your concern is noted.

Do you believe that over actual dev's statements?
Of course there are devs that say the XSS isn't a problem at all. Do you believe THOSE devs? Seems like some cherry picking is going on.

Yep you can use an external hard drive , this is not news...but not at the same performance as the SSD.

I have the Xbone one X so an S has some adventages but not enought to move. Maybe by 2022 when more games will be just for Series S/X. I own most of Microsoft consoles and have Gamepass so its clear that the Series S SSD is very small unless you only have 20-30 gig games...but if you want to have The Division 2 and Call of Duty o S the space of its SSD becomes a factor.

The true is that if Series X would be avaliable the same way S is now...most people would get the X...a lot of people got the S because there is no option.
There isn't a game out that runs better on the X1X over the XSS. Most games on the X1X are locked at 30fps. The XSS even has FPS boost which takes games X1X never ran at 60 and improves the framerate. Look at a game like Cyberpunk 2077 which ran considerably better on the XSS than the X1X. If you think there isn't enough games to play that's your opinion but the power of the XSS isn't the issue. As I've told other people the storage space isn't a concern for casual gamers who only play a few games. Hard core gamers wouldn't usually go for the XSS in the first place and if they did they have options to save their games for an affordable cost.

Since when has marketing not talked about upper limits? Bit naive to think it wouldn't.
We've just had Psychonauts 2 at 1680p 60fps on Series S, so in that case it exceeds the marketing.
Dammit Riky you have been dropping nothing but knowledge over and over again! I want people to complain that Psychonauts 2 isn't running at 1440p like MS said! They lied again!
 

Hezekiah

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199$ is the magic number. That's a fact.

And ps5 and xsx marketed as 4k but see under 1080p especially ps5.
Of that's a fact is it. Yet the PS2, PS4 and Switch managed to do quite a big of magic before hitting $200. Two of those consoles never even hit $200 😂😂.
 

dcmk7

Member
Mar 25, 2020
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Right now there are NO games that are using SFS so to declare it won't be useful is way premature. Optimization never meant that the XSS would use every graphical feature. The ratio of fast to slower memory on the XSS is different because its an 80:20 split over the 60:40 split on the XSX. It has more of the faster memory so again for the resolution the system is targeting it won't be a problem for it to run games with less graphical detail.

You'd also be shocked to hear that Far Cry 6 won't have raytracing on the PS5 or any current gen console. I suppose that proves that developers will ultimately decide what features they will incorporate in their games on the hardware they have available. Just because the XSS is capable of using raytracing doesn't mean that ALL games on the XSS will have it just like ALL PS5 and XSX games won't have it either. In addition when did raytracing become a core feature that all games need? Returnal, a PS5 only game that isn't being 'held back' by the XSS, doesn't have raytracing and renders internally at 1080p. Does this mean the PS5 won't make it to the end of the generation? I'd suspect you'd disagree.

Your concern about the XSS doesn't strike me as genuine. Let me know when an XSS version of a game is missing characters, levels, or has worse enemy AI. These are the core tenants of a game not graphical features MS ALWAYS said the XSS would have less of. This is just another case of you holding the XSS to a standard you don't hold more expensive consoles to. It's pretty odd.


Nope. Your whole comparison is flawed because the PS4 and PS5 are NOT from the same generation AT ALL. The PS4 lacks features the PS5 has entirely and it has nothing to do with it's hard drive or loading a game. People here keep comparing the XSS to the Switch and PS4 and it's clear they have no idea what the XSS is capable of or even what generation it belongs to. People also call MS liars when not every game on the XSS has raytracing which was never claimed. Raytracing isn't a core gameplay feature it is a graphical feature. The same features that would be compromised on a device with lower graphical capabilities.

Quick resume, FPS boost, SFS are core features of the current generation Xbox. My point about features is that if someone is going to accuse MS of being misleading it should be very easy to show the missing features the XSS has when compared to the XSX. Just like I can show the missing features the PS4 has compared to the PS5. No one has been able to point out ONE missing feature outside of the optical drive which I'm certain MS clearly stated was NOT there. Again people are more interested in inventing issues with the XSS that do not exist.


PS5 was marketed as a 4K console. Returnal renders internally at 1080p. :messenger_sunglasses: The 1440p did not imply ALL games would run at that resolution and you know it. More disingenuous nonsense.


If the concern is sincere about the XSS and it's longevity then the same issues could be applied to the PS5 or even the Switch. In a world where the Switch and even the poorly designed X1 can get support an entire generation the idea of the XSS not making it is laughable. No matter how you slice it the underpowered XSS can do things the PS5 cannot. It has MORE 120 fps titles and features. The XSS remains a superior value and your feelings won't change that. I remain grateful that MS doesn't base it's decisions on what smaller markets do.

The PS is a bigger brand globally and people in Europe are not going to rush out to buy a casual console from the company that just came off of the X1. Your nonsense about the 360 is just that. That was TWO generations ago and in business you are only as good as your last product. Well MS last product was the X1 and it didn't set the world on fire so there is no wonder the Series consoles aren't selling as well. Enthusiasts are going to grab the XSX when it is available because they are enthusiasts. Casuals won't grab the XSS in Europe because they aren't going to care about the company who last delivered the X1. Again your commentary doesn't apply to the N. America, the biggest market, so again your reasoning that the power of the XSS is the why it doesn't sell as in Europe is completely flawed. It is a pure popularity contest. You do seem quite proud to point out that PS is more popular globally and if that makes you sleep better at night I'm happy for you. It still has no baring on the topic on whether or not the XSS will make it to the end of the generation. It will but your concern is noted.


Of course there are devs that say the XSS isn't a problem at all. Do you believe THOSE devs? Seems like some cherry picking is going on.


There isn't a game out that runs better on the X1X over the XSS. Most games on the X1X are locked at 30fps. The XSS even has FPS boost which takes games X1X never ran at 60 and improves the framerate. Look at a game like Cyberpunk 2077 which ran considerably better on the XSS than the X1X. If you think there isn't enough games to play that's your opinion but the power of the XSS isn't the issue. As I've told other people the storage space isn't a concern for casual gamers who only play a few games. Hard core gamers wouldn't usually go for the XSS in the first place and if they did they have options to save their games for an affordable cost.


Dammit Riky you have been dropping nothing but knowledge over and over again! I want people to complain that Psychonauts 2 isn't running at 1440p like MS said! They lied again!
Why does all your posts have to be so antagonising all the time.

It's tiresome beyond belief. Haven't you seen the warning?
 

wtftad

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Jun 6, 2014
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Just a quick PSA for folks in the Houston area that want a XSS. I have been in two different Costco locations (latest was this AM at 10:30) in the last few days and both of them had the Series S in stock for $289.99. I looked on their website but they don't have any listing for the Series S. You can find the display in the electronic section in the same row/isle as portable Storage and App Store gift cards.

Best o' luck...
 
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Hezekiah

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If the concern is sincere about the XSS and it's longevity then the same issues could be applied to the PS5 or even the Switch. In a world where the Switch and even the poorly designed X1 can get support an entire generation the idea of the XSS not making it is laughable. No matter how you slice it the underpowered XSS can do things the PS5 cannot. It has MORE 120 fps titles and features. The XSS remains a superior value and your feelings won't change that. I remain grateful that MS doesn't base it's decisions on what smaller markets do.

The PS is a bigger brand globally and people in Europe are not going to rush out to buy a casual console from the company that just came off of the X1. Your nonsense about the 360 is just that. That was TWO generations ago and in business you are only as good as your last product. Well MS last product was the X1 and it didn't set the world on fire so there is no wonder the Series consoles aren't selling as well. Enthusiasts are going to grab the XSX when it is available because they are enthusiasts. Casuals won't grab the XSS in Europe because they aren't going to care about the company who last delivered the X1. Again your commentary doesn't apply to the N. America, the biggest market, so again your reasoning that the power of the XSS is the why it doesn't sell as in Europe is completely flawed. It is a pure popularity contest. You do seem quite proud to point out that PS is more popular globally and if that makes you sleep better at night I'm happy for you. It still has no baring on the topic on whether or not the XSS will make it to the end of the generation. It will but your concern is noted.
There is no concern over the Series S, that's just something you've thrown around as you've become more and more triggered by the logical analyses of the Series S's limitations and what bearing this might have on its future in this thread, and it's lack of sales in comparison to the other next-gen consoles.

You've even got people who have seen piles of them in Walmart and GameStop. When has that been the case for the other machines?

"the underpowered XSS can do things the PS5 cannot" - is this really how badly you're taking this? Still talking about features that hardly anybody cares about and could be added at any time? Still talking about the PS5 because console warring is your second nature?

Lots of people are rushing out to buy Series X consoles in Europe, but now you're making up crap about how they won't buy a 'casual console', after spending ages bragging about how amazing this console is, and what great value it represents 🤭. After spending what seems like an age going on about GamePass and how the PS5 is bad value comparatively. After Microsoft has been so consumer friendly with its backwards compatibility program. After Microsoft bought Bethesda. Logic? Nah, why bother with that!

As we've seen in this thread, people have noted Series S consoles available in the US too. So aswell as gamers in Europe, the Middle East and Asia having less demand for the Series S, there's also some evidence of this being the case in parts of America too.

You're right about one thing though (finally) - popularity does play a part and compared to the other next-gen consoles the Series S simply isn't very popular 😂.
 

phil_t98

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Oct 10, 2014
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Not a true next generation game especially when you're bandwidth restricted. The XSS put a limit on 3rd party titles the moment devs were briefed on its random access memory

so what is a true next generation game? Rachet?

Flight Sim? if that its so its running fine on series S
 
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Imagine, imagine imagine. How about I just look at the current reality instead?

And PS5 still is marketed as a 4k games machine. Series S marketing changed real quick lol.
Yet it still isn't a 4k games machine. Maybe they should change it.

Edit
Wait are you trying to say if the switch was 199$ it wouldn't sell better? Hahahahhahahahhahahahahahha Holy shit wtf?
 
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