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[Bloomberg] PS5 M.2 storage support coming in 'summer' with fan curve update

skit_data

Member
fG0Jrbh.jpg
I assumed this was the case earlier; there already is enough airflow with capacity to cool an SSD to some extent.

Its not like Sony went ”oh shit, the SSD needs cooling we didnt know! we have to increase the fan to 2x the speed to even supply a little bit of cooling”, like some people seem to think.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I assumed this was the case earlier; there already is enough airflow with capacity to cool an SSD to some extent.

Its not like Sony went ”oh shit, the SSD needs cooling we didnt know! we have to increase the fan to 2x the speed to even supply a little bit of cooling”, like some people seem to think.
True.

With an additional SSD, all it comes down to is how much faster the fan has to speed up to cool all the internals down. That's all.
 

NEbeast

Member
Series X's storage solution is far more convenient and actually works right now. You can't even upgrade or do shit with PS5's storage yet and when you can it sounds like it will actually change how the system acts. That is fucking horrible design.
Wasn't MS solution "toasty". We're splitting hairs here without seeing this in action.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Yeah but does it make a sound at all now? If it does, I can’t hear it.
It really doesn't. I sort of 'stressed' it by putting in the high-polygon TLOU2 characters and Astrobot artifacts on the screen. It doesn't make a peep even if I put my ears to it. If not for the lights, I'd think the console isn't even running.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
And they're always tucked right in between the CPU heat monster and GPU heat monster in the M2 slot more often than not.

Yes, this is more BS.
I will add as well since I almost forgot. Picked up a new Asus TUF gaming laptop two weeks ago for when I'm away from home on business trips. The NVMe is sandwiched in that board with not only an APU, but also an nVidia dGPU on a laptop that is super light & thin (impressively so) for a gaming laptop, and guess what? No issues.

Even the most fanatical adjacent PC fanboy should be calling out FUD to this crap.
 
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FritzJ92

Member
Embracing the FUD early, I see. You do realize they make SSDs for laptops, right? I have 2 in my laptop right now. Heat is relative when discussing electronics, and both my laptop and the PS5 already have fairly hot components in them. The fan speed will increase because of the SSD bay, but I doubt it's going to be a massive increase in speed, unless they simply designed the SSD bay cooling poorly. Given the size of the vents going into it, I assume that they didn't expect it to generate a massive amount of heat, so I wouldn't expect the fan speed to increase significantly.

Also, you can also just not get extra drive. Given that costs scale much better on PC components than proprietary parts, the Sony solution should prove to be the best bang for buck long-term. PS5 owners will have the advantage of buying units that sell to PS5 owners and PC owners combined, while the XSX solution will depend largely on the Xbox ecosystem to scale production costs.
It's a shell with an SSD inside it... the added cost is the shell (because it comes with a heatsink), and the memory controller... it isn't a massive increase of cost...

Also MS says they will allow other manufactures to sell different form factors and size, I think WD just has a timed exclusivity deal with them, I doubt the prices will be much cheaper
 

assurdum

Banned
Series X's storage solution is far more convenient and actually works right now. You can't even upgrade or do shit with PS5's storage yet and when you can it sounds like it will actually change how the system acts. That is fucking horrible design.
Build an hardware with an SSD at the triple of the speed of the concurrency now is became a fucking horrible design choice..
tv land omg GIF by YoungerTV
 
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So it can get louder with the SSD?
I don't know when computers being loud started to be a thing or people console warring over 57 vs 60 fps, the people buying 100s of millions of PlayStation every generation don't even get bothered by this stuff... this is just youtuber tech conversation stuff to keep channels like digital foundry and what not survive. And console warriors go to war online. Cause they don't stop me from enjoying my gaming experience a shame far as I can remember.

It's like some fashion Nowadays to talk about how quiet my piece of plastic is or how it digital foundry didn't see a frame drop over the other plastic box, it used to be about the quality of games the graphics the gameplay the overall production and art that went to a game it's now all about fans, heat sinks, power input, vrr, rdna and all the nonesense that nobody cares about. Now we're even killing each other over photo modes and puddle reflections. I wish the Xbox vs ps2 titles war was back cause it's getting ridiculous this days.
 

Dream-Knife

Banned
I don't know when computers being loud started to be a thing or people console warring over 57 vs 60 fps, the people buying 100s of millions of PlayStation every generation don't even get bothered by this stuff... this is just youtuber tech conversation stuff to keep channels like digital foundry and what not survive. And console warriors go to war online. Cause they don't stop me from enjoying my gaming experience a shame far as I can remember.

It's like some fashion Nowadays to talk about how quiet my piece of plastic is or how it digital foundry didn't see a frame drop over the other plastic box, it used to be about the quality of games the graphics the gameplay the overall production and art that went to a game it's now all about fans, heat sinks, power input, vrr, rdna and all the nonesense that nobody cares about. Now we're even killing each other over photo modes and puddle reflections. I wish the Xbox vs ps2 titles war was back cause it's getting ridiculous this days.
Both of the systems are so similar that that’s all there really is to war about. I do miss the 5th and 6th gen.
 
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turtlepowa

Banned
I don't know when computers being loud started to be a thing or people console warring over 57 vs 60 fps, the people buying 100s of millions of PlayStation every generation don't even get bothered by this stuff... this is just youtuber tech conversation stuff to keep channels like digital foundry and what not survive. And console warriors go to war online. Cause they don't stop me from enjoying my gaming experience a shame far as I can remember.

It's like some fashion Nowadays to talk about how quiet my piece of plastic is or how it digital foundry didn't see a frame drop over the other plastic box, it used to be about the quality of games the graphics the gameplay the overall production and art that went to a game it's now all about fans, heat sinks, power input, vrr, rdna and all the nonesense that nobody cares about. Now we're even killing each other over photo modes and puddle reflections. I wish the Xbox vs ps2 titles war was back cause it's getting ridiculous this days.
Quiet hardware is important for many people. 360 with a disc in it was a starting jet, normal PS4 and most Pros were hairdryers, One power adapter was noisy. Slim and S/X were fine. It doesn't bother you how loud your hardware is? Good for you, but don't tell people what they should be bothered about and what not. You know what? I even drilled a hole in a wall and put my pc into my storeroom, because it annoyed me.
 

JackMcGunns

Member
This is rather a dumb question considering its not out yet. When it does come available, this question would not be asked.


It's a perfectly reasonable question. The product is out now with no solution. You claim Sony was forward thinking, when in fact it was MS that figured out a solution for gamers, the same way they added the upscale chip in Xbox 360 for people with 1080i displays that didn't handle 720p. Sony likes to leave things for us to deal with, so basically my PS3 would play 720p games in 480p because my TV couldn't resolve a 720p image via it's component input. Sure eventually all sets would eventually move up to 1080p, but this is they kind of forward thinking about MS that has always impressed me.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
It's a perfectly reasonable question. The product is out now with no solution. You claim Sony was forward thinking, when in fact it was MS that figured out a solution for gamers, the same way they added the upscale chip in Xbox 360 for people with 1080i displays that didn't handle 720p. Sony likes to leave things for us to deal with, so basically my PS3 would play 720p games in 480p because my TV couldn't resolve a 720p image via it's component input. Sure eventually all sets would eventually move up to 1080p, but this is they kind of forward thinking about MS that has always impressed me.
Compatible drives were going to be ready when the PS5 was near completion. You would need to have some forward planning to make this happen.
 
It's only really a concern because these drives do run hot and slow down as they heat up, and with the PS5 demanding a very fast minimum throughput, you will need the drive performing at close to optimal speeds at all times.

Again, though, I don't think it will be an issue. Modest heatsinks exist for these drives, and I am sure the airflow will be sufficient. Maybe you will need to leave the bay lid off, who knows, but I am sure it will work fine.

Just waiting for the list of compatible drives so I can buy a 2TB variant and not have to worry about space again
 

Gamerguy84

Member
Lol it's a little odd to think they were smart enough to engineer the thing and not think about cooling it down.

The biggest load it will have is short burst of loading an entire game, which looks to be a few seconds. Other than that it's loading levels or tiny amounts of data.

I've installed two NVM gen 3 in laptops and one in my gaming PC. The laptops had little or no airflow where I installed them.

The PS5 fan alone pulls in air from both sides but there is probably a heatsink on the mobo somewhere for this purpose. Or it will come with a thermal pad laying across the top that you'll be warned not to remove.

I'm sure it will be fine.
 
I call BS regarding increased fan speed:
  • The M2 Slot already comes with a heatsink
  • The M2 Slot is isolated from the fans airflow
  • The M2 Slot placement is far away from the SoC, so heat from it is irrelevant
  • M2 SSDs only need passiv cooling with a small heatsink
If anything the reporter mixed things up and there will be simply a big PS5 OS update this summer from which internal SSD support AND a higher performance profile will be included features.
Most PCs have multiple case fans inside which remove heat....the ps5 has 1

ps5 does not come with a heat sink....it’s simply a cover...you will need to purchase a seperate heatsink that’s on board to get decent heat dissipation

The specs of the m2 drives that Sony was hinting at run very hot....ordinary m2 drives you may get away with minimal cooling but once you start hitting the premium speeds you get the extra heat

Any extra heat inside the case that’s not properly cooled will have a bad effect
 

gundalf

Member
Most PCs have multiple case fans inside which remove heat....the ps5 has 1

ps5 does not come with a heat sink....it’s simply a cover...you will need to purchase a seperate heatsink that’s on board to get decent heat dissipation

The specs of the m2 drives that Sony was hinting at run very hot....ordinary m2 drives you may get away with minimal cooling but once you start hitting the premium speeds you get the extra heat

Any extra heat inside the case that’s not properly cooled will have a bad effect

Folks have posted here several photos of the slot, you can clearly see that it is thermally isolated from the CPU of the system. Of course you can keep arguing on that, but then I don't know what kind of idea you have on how thermals behave in such a system.
 
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DarkestHour

Banned
When is someone going to tell people that the PS5 disk IO performance isn't necessarily from the bandwidth, but from moving to NVMe and a better processor?
 
Folks have posted here several photos of the slot, you can clearly see that it is thermally isolated from the CPU of the system. Of course you can keep arguing on that, but then I don't know what kind of idea you have on how thermals behave in such a system.
It’s not thermally isolated at all...it sits right next to an intake valve and is right next to the main fan....heat can also radiate to the other side of the board which is how we got similar issues with the 360..the system will basically be sucking hot air in from that spot
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
It’s not thermally isolated at all...it sits right next to an intake valve and is right next to the main fan....heat can also radiate to the other side of the board which is how we got similar issues with the 360..the system will basically be sucking hot air in from that spot
Excuse Me What GIF

M2 drives on the PC and laptops literally sit on the motherboard itself, flat, the majority the time sandwiched in between the CPU and the GPU with zero issues.

There’s absolutely no airflow for those drives on most laptops.
 
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dxdt

Member
I will add as well since I almost forgot. Picked up a new Asus TUF gaming laptop two weeks ago for when I'm away from home on business trips. The NVMe is sandwiched in that board with not only an APU, but also an nVidia dGPU on a laptop that is super light & thin (impressively so) for a gaming laptop, and guess what? No issues.

Even the most fanatical adjacent PC fanboy should be calling out FUD to this crap.
It might not be an issue in the laptop even if the NVMe drives throttle due to temperature. Most people might not even know it. Does the PS5 need to provide 5.5 GB/s of data and for how long? And how critical is it that external NVMe does not throttle itself to reduce heat?
 

longdi

Banned
Do stop quoting laptop m2 drives, IIRC no normal sized laptop comes with those 6.5~7gbs pcie4 drives.

It will be awhile more before we see fast m2 drives in laptops.

Has anyone tested fastest m2 drives in laptops and check their sustained performance?

The trend i am seeing with ssd, you dont get top tier speeds with the next gen refresh. The tech flow downwards slower than you wish.
 

Neo_game

Member
So the ms solution was a better option??....zero issues with the Seagate slot in stick despite the stupid price
I don't want my ps5 sounding like a hair dryer so I would pay extra for a custom solution that does not make it louder

Sony has the right idea, we will see if it works. Microsoft solution is very expensive for a slow speed SSD and will not come down in price because it is proprietary. I think neither of them is worth and devs should compress their games like how Remedy managed to do with Control. Very small percentage of people are going to get the expansion. I doubt whether they will do this but it is better to increase the price of the console by 100$ and increase the storage by 2x in future.


Worst case scenario if it becomes loud you can always move the game you’re playing on the internal SSD and keep the expansion as storage.

I wonder if 970pro 1tb which is 100$ cheaper than 980pro will work just fine for 98% of games. I think there are barely any games out there that are utilizing PS5 5.5gb/sec anyways. So it could be that it will work just fine or there is barely any difference like we see on PC ?
 
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CitizenZ

Banned
So you all paid for a feature that wasnt even working? Ouch.

Excuse me Sandy, can you sell me that thing that doesnt work? How much, here is $500. O...it doesnt work you say...thats ok, you see Im a Corp slave so i will be getting the discount. Discount in the terms of they will let me know when or if it works. Thank you , slurp, slurp, slurp.
 
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Excuse Me What GIF

M2 drives on the PC and laptops literally sit on the motherboard itself, flat, the majority the time sandwiched in between the CPU and the GPU with zero issues.

There’s absolutely no airflow for those drives on most laptops.
Im running a gaming laptop for work (Asus ROG Strix G15 G512)

with an upgraded M2 drive on it and this thing runs hot and its not even a premium drive
this thing has 4 fans in it and you still cant put it on your lap

The 7gb per second drive like the 980 pro run hotter ...internals below

uMu4hzO.jpg
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
I assumed this was the case earlier; there already is enough airflow with capacity to cool an SSD to some extent.

Its not like Sony went ”oh shit, the SSD needs cooling we didnt know! we have to increase the fan to 2x the speed to even supply a little bit of cooling”, like some people seem to think.
Exactly.

The cooling for the slot is part of the console design. That the slot is so deep it might can take drives with big heat sinks. All this is already factored into the console design.
 

Fredrik

Member
my PS5 storage has been full since before christmas. Sony what r u doing
My XSX external 1TB drive was full the first evening...
Neither of the consoles are doing this properly. With the storage problem and delayed games I think the wisest move would’ve been to jump in at the inevitable mid gen upgrade. 2TB internal, better design, multiple AAA 1st party games, 2023.
 

Nitty_Grimes

Made a crappy phPBB forum once ... once.
I don't know when computers being loud started to be a thing or people console warring over 57 vs 60 fps, the people buying 100s of millions of PlayStation every generation don't even get bothered by this stuff... this is just youtuber tech conversation stuff to keep channels like digital foundry and what not survive. And console warriors go to war online. Cause they don't stop me from enjoying my gaming experience a shame far as I can remember.

It's like some fashion Nowadays to talk about how quiet my piece of plastic is or how it digital foundry didn't see a frame drop over the other plastic box, it used to be about the quality of games the graphics the gameplay the overall production and art that went to a game it's now all about fans, heat sinks, power input, vrr, rdna and all the nonesense that nobody cares about. Now we're even killing each other over photo modes and puddle reflections. I wish the Xbox vs ps2 titles war was back cause it's getting ridiculous this days.
What your really trying to say is you don’t like digital foundry?

Joke.
 
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sinnergy

Member
My XSX external 1TB drive was full the first evening...
Neither of the consoles are doing this properly. With the storage problem and delayed games I think the wisest move would’ve been to jump in at the inevitable mid gen upgrade. 2TB internal, better design, multiple AAA 1st party games, 2023.
Mine also , bought the 1 TB expansion , XSX problem solved. At least the option was there from the beginning.. Something MS needs to be applauded for imo.
 

Fredrik

Member
Mine also , bought the 1 TB expansion , XSX problem solved. At least the option was there from the beginning.. Something MS needs to be applauded for imo.
Yeah it’s definitely better than on PS5. And it’s kinda wild that you can actually hotswap it (!!!) and use multiple cards if you must. That’s worth some praise.

I just wish I could’ve bought a 2TB card. 1TB isn’t enough when so many games are X|S enhanced and you have Gamepass.
This is my current situation 3 months after launch:

CJDR7jT.jpg
 
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Withnail

Member
Yeah this is going to be like suspend/resume was for PS4 (or in-game XMB for PS3), where lots of hand-wringing "experts" tell us the lateness of the feature shows how Sony fucked up the PS5 design, and then the feature is delivered and works perfectly and everybody forgets it was ever missing.
 
Yeah this is going to be like suspend/resume was for PS4 (or in-game XMB for PS3), where lots of hand-wringing "experts" tell us the lateness of the feature shows how Sony fucked up the PS5 design, and then the feature is delivered and works perfectly and everybody forgets it was ever missing.
Only a very small percentage will actually use this because the drives that are compatible will be really expensive. A more useful feature would be the ability to store PS5 games on any external drive for those still living with third world internet speeds.
 
Quiet hardware is important for many people. 360 with a disc in it was a starting jet, normal PS4 and most Pros were hairdryers, One power adapter was noisy. Slim and S/X were fine. It doesn't bother you how loud your hardware is? Good for you, but don't tell people what they should be bothered about and what not. You know what? I even drilled a hole in a wall and put my pc into my storeroom, because it annoyed me.
How've quiet you'r
What your really trying to say is you don’t like digital foundry?

Joke.
I honestly don't like some of there content, it's good when they show techniques used on a game engine but they become extremely political when they start comparing gaming performance. You know when they zoom 400x to look at pixels, they took a photo mode benchmark and declared it the be all and end all of series x vs ps5 on a crossgen game

One time the Alex guy didn't believe ssd's will improve graphics and even after the unreal 5 demo was revealed and after countless developers said the ssd's improve graphics he still didn't admit it he even did a video about unreal 5 without mentioning the ssd which was critical.

Also when they see 2 frame drops on a game and say it's jarring. This really bothers me this youtubers don the talk or care about games anymore it's now about political correctness and biased reviews and when they lie to the fans they never apologise.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Im running a gaming laptop for work (Asus ROG Strix G15 G512)

with an upgraded M2 drive on it and this thing runs hot and its not even a premium drive
this thing has 4 fans in it and you still cant put it on your lap

The 7gb per second drive like the 980 pro run hotter ...internals below

uMu4hzO.jpg
Is your laptop going to RRoD?

Do PCs RRoD when you put them in the M2 slot that’s in between the CPU and GPU?

No. They don’t. And they are much closer to heat and the mobo heat components than the PS5 is.

Thank goodness you don’t sit the PS5 on your lap, eh?
 
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ManaByte

Member
IIRC no normal sized laptop comes with those 6.5~7gbs pcie4 drives.

I don't think ANY laptop has them yet. They're so new there are only two brands (Samsung and WD) and if you want them in your PC you need to do a custom build (which I did).
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Yeah it’s definitely better than on PS5. And it’s kinda wild that you can actually hotswap it (!!!) and use multiple cards if you must. That’s worth some praise.

I just wish I could’ve bought a 2TB card. 1TB isn’t enough when so many games are X|S enhanced and you have Gamepass.
This is my current situation 3 months after launch:

CJDR7jT.jpg
I am waiting for 2TB card, 1TB just does not make sense for me so far with external drive.
 

oldergamer

Member
Mine also , bought the 1 TB expansion , XSX problem solved. At least the option was there from the beginning.. Something MS needs to be applauded for imo.
I have 2 TB in my XSX as well. The size and performance has been great so far.

I think ms got this part right.
 

vpance

Member
Sony has the right idea, we will see if it works. Microsoft solution is very expensive for a slow speed SSD and will not come down in price because it is proprietary. I think neither of them is worth and devs should compress their games like how Remedy managed to do with Control. Very small percentage of people are going to get the expansion. I doubt whether they will do this but it is better to increase the price of the console by 100$ and increase the storage by 2x in future.




I wonder if 970pro 1tb which is 100$ cheaper than 980pro will work just fine for 98% of games. I think there are barely any games out there that are utilizing PS5 5.5gb/sec anyways. So it could be that it will work just fine or there is barely any difference like we see on PC ?

It'll be 7GB/s or bust. After all the engineering they put into the I/O system if they nerf the max SSD speed it would be shameful, just to keep the fan a few dB quieter.
 
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