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[Spookie]

Bioshock 2 for me felt unnecessary it improved the shooting mechanics but lost much of the soul which made the original feel great. A lot of things felt like they should have been removed at that but but were kept in because it's a 'Bioshock' game. You can see it in Infinite as well, for example- looting trashcans and vigours (story spoiler:

Spoiler

while I understand there was justification it still felt like polite hand waving to give us a reason for them to be in the game

. But that's for another thread.

It gives the feeling that the creation of the game was hamstrung by what peoples expectations were out of a Bioshock game and if given a bit more freedom we might have seen something much more exciting.

 

[Off-Kilter]

I enjoyed both immensely, but I found that B2 started to drag a little bit during its midsection. B1 had me hooked throughout.

 

[RoyalFool]

It makes me sad to see opinions like this. That "B Team" did an insanely good job, and you could tell they poured their heart into it. It wasn't just a cash in sequel, they really did make a lot of things much better. And the multiplayer was actually rather fun. And just having multiplayer didn't take away from the single player, either.

I'm not necessarily pointing at you, but I do feel like a lot of GAF had that initial reaction and then never gave it a fair shake.

But I thought the single player was considerably worse than the original, my favorite aspect of the original was feeling like you could freestyle it and coming up with your own solutions as to how to progress past a difficulty section. My memory of Bioshock 2 was that I reached a section where it wanted me to proceed in a very specific way, and if I tried to do anything clever it'd basically throw stupid numbers of enemies at me until I gave in and it it the way it wanted me to - fuck that, don't give me plasmids and then only give me one allowed method of doing something.

 

[Deleted member 144138]

Can't wait to play Bioshock 2

Spoiler

if GFWL will be removed

 

[CoolZombie360]

I think overall I prefer the original game, the second certainly couldn't have the same impact what with returning to Rapture etc. but I feel that the combat mechanics were definitely more solid in the sequel.

Either way, both top games.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Bioshock 2 was the better "game" and Bioshock was the better "experience".

 

[PenKaizen]

I've never had any desire to play Bioshock 2 because I simply don't count it as an entry in to the series. I'm sure 2K Marin did a great job, but I just have no interest in playing their interpretation of Rapture.
Unlike Obsidian's take on Fallout, which could exist in its own right, Bioshock 2 just seems like a "Snakes Revenge" kind of game.

 

[phantomspiker]

But I thought the single player was considerably worse than the original, my favorite aspect of the original was feeling like you could freestyle it and coming up with your own solutions as to how to progress past a difficulty section. My memory of Bioshock 2 was that I reached a section where it wanted me to proceed in a very specific way, and if I tried to do anything clever it'd basically throw stupid numbers of enemies at me until I gave in and it it the way it wanted me to - fuck that, don't give me plasmids and then only give me one allowed method of doing something.

Your memory of Bioshock 2 has failed you. If anything Bioshock 2's improved combat provided more options to the player than Bioshock 1.

They are both great games, but I preferred Bioshock 2.

 

[cashman]

That Andrew Ryan clip at the beginning of Bioshock 1 might be my favorite video game introduction of all time

 

[Andrew Korenchkin]

I enjoyed both immensely, but I found that B2 started to drag a little bit during its midsection. B1 had me hooked throughout.

I think one thing I wasn't a big fan of in BioShock 2 was the coupling of re-spawning enemies and a greater amount of enemies. The game just got incredibly repetitive at points. That Siren Alley level was just awful. The endless back tracking only made it more painful. Neither Daniel Wales nor Simon Wales were interesting in any way, they are probably among the weakest characters in the entire series

Despite that, I think my favorite level in all of the BioShock games, is, of all of them, Pauper's Drop. Grace Holloway was probably one of the best characters in the whole series. I could write essays on every single bloody character in the whole series, but I won't bore the majority of the people I talk to.

 

[RoyalFool]

Your memory of Bioshock 2 has failed you. If anything Bioshock 2's improved combat provided more options to the player than Bioshock 1.

They are both great games, but I preferred Bioshock 2.

To be fair I didn't play it that long - after the first instance of "the first game never had this rubbish in it" I put it away and never played it again in disappointment - maybe I would have grown to like it if I soldiered on a bit. I never even got to see the zoo section I was really looking forward to seeing, I remember hearing about it being in the design for the first game but not making the cut.

For me the first game was pretty much perfect right up until the end, I still get chills thinking about Sander Cohen level introduction - that music!

 

[AJ_Wings]

But I thought the single player was considerably worse than the original, my favorite aspect of the original was feeling like you could freestyle it and coming up with your own solutions as to how to progress past a difficulty section. My memory of Bioshock 2 was that I reached a section where it wanted me to proceed in a very specific way, and if I tried to do anything clever it'd basically throw stupid numbers of enemies at me until I gave in and it it the way it wanted me to - fuck that, don't give me plasmids and then only give me one allowed method of doing something.

Care to give a specific example? Because I honestly don't remember such railroading or restriction in Bioshock 2. While the level design was more open-ended compared to the first, it's objectives and mission structure was largely similar to the first one. (E.g Get maguffin A and deliver it to Location B, Find and Save/Harvest little sisters, Go to specific location to trigger story event...etc.)

 

[pa22word]

BioShock 2 is better than the first game in pretty much every conceivable way, and is better than Infinite by tenfold (considering Infinite's mechanics are nothing but a dumbed down and worse version of BS2s). I even give it more credit in the story department as

Spoiler

at least they didn't lift its plot wholesale from its predecessor and execute it worse.

I've never had any desire to play Bioshock 2 because I simply don't count it as an entry in to the series. I'm sure 2K Marin did a great job, but I just have no interest in playing their interpretation of Rapture.
Unlike Obsidian's take on Fallout, which could exist in its own right, Bioshock 2 just seems like a "Snakes Revenge" kind of game.

Newsflash: Ken Levine wasn't the only person who worked on and designed BioShock. There's a good number of designers who worked on Bio1 who also worked on Bio2, and then later Infinite. Is Infinite a "Snake's Revenge" because they worked on that? Or is Ken Levine, one man out of the hundreds who worked on those games, the single quantifier on what is a "Bioshock game"?

A lot of these types of responses seem like they come from people who don't really understand how game development works, nor how huge of an undertaking it actually is.

 

[olimpia84]

The first Bioshock had that 'wow' factor of visiting for the first time Rapture, so that's a big plus in its favor. That, and the story was a bit more interesting.

Bioshock 2 had better gameplay and I thought they did a good job of fitting the story of S. Lamb into the universe. It was really fun re-visiting Rapture a second time and the presentation was very good. I don't get why some people hate this game

 

[Baron_Calamity]

BioShock 2.

The themes of BioShock (

Spoiler

the idea of games and how we do what we're told without question

) might be more universally understandable to a broader selection of people but the themes of BioShock 2(

Spoiler

the actions of a father influence the actions of his children

) are far more effective and resonated more to me.

Being clever is cool. Having heart is hard. BioShock 2 has heart.

Same here. I enjoyed Bioshock 2 far more for that reason. I wish Marin was allowed to continue on Bioshock 3. Maybe after X-com Declassified ships they will.

Bioshock 2 also was better paced it was interesting through the entire game and had satisfying multiple endings. The first Bioshock reached its climax a little after the half way point. The final 3rd was pointless and boring. Plus the postage stamp final cinematics that was thrown on as an afterthought.

 

[SmithnCo]

I enjoy the story, environments, and setpieces in Bioshock 1 over 2. 2 has the better gameplay but it doesn't push it over the edge for me.

For example, nothing in Bio2 really comes close to the Sander Cohen bit in 1 and the creepy stuff that happened during that.

 

[phantomspiker]

To be fair I didn't play it that long - after the first instance of "the first game never had this rubbish in it" I put it away and never played it again in disappointment - maybe I would have grown to like it if I soldiered on a bit. I never even got to see the zoo section I was really looking forward to seeing, I remember hearing about it being in the design for the first game but not making the cut.

For me the first game was pretty much perfect right up until the end, I still get chills thinking about Sander Cohen level introduction - that music!

You should really think about giving it another go and judge it on its own merits.

It's a damn good game.

 

[PenKaizen]

BioShock 2 is better than the first game in pretty much every conceivable way, and is better than Infinite by tenfold (considering Infinite's mechanics are nothing but a dumbed down and worse version of BS2s). I even give it more credit in the story department as

Spoiler

at least they didn't lift its plot wholesale from its predecessor and execute it worse.

Newsflash: Ken Levine wasn't the only person who worked on and designed BioShock. There's a good number of designers who worked on Bio1 who also worked on Bio2, and then later Infinite. Is Infinite a "Snake's Revenge" because they worked on that? Or is Ken Levine, one man out of the hundreds who worked on those games, the single quantifier on what is a "Bioshock game"?

A lot of these types of responses seem like they come from people who don't really understand how game development works, nor how huge of an undertaking it actually is.

Great, good for them.
But community response alone suggests Bioshock 2 is a far lesser game than Bioshock 1. So regardless of whether people from Bioshock 1 worked one 2, it doesn't really matter if the soul isn't there, which apparently is Ken Levine.

 

[Trogdor1123]

I perferred Bioshock 2 myself but both games are amazing in their own rights.

 

[Andrew Korenchkin]

Great, good for them.
But community response alone suggests Bioshock 2 is a far lesser game than Bioshock 1. So regardless of whether people from Bioshock 1 worked one 2, it doesn't really matter if the soul isn't there, which apparently is Ken Levine.

I don't think Ken Levine is the type of guy that would claim his own importance to a series and not give any body else credit. He's gone on record and say that it's not just his vision, it's the entire team's. He prefers the term editor.

 

[MuddyDonut]

I also prefer Bioshock 2 over the first one (by a sliver, mostly due to the gameplay), but prefer Minerva's Den to both.

 

[RDreamer]

Great, good for them.
But community response alone suggests Bioshock 2 is a far lesser game than Bioshock 1. So regardless of whether people from Bioshock 1 worked one 2, it doesn't really matter if the soul isn't there, which apparently is Ken Levine.

I kind of feel like the community response of people that have actually played the game and gave it a fair chance it rather good. The community response before playing the game was what was pretty damning, and it never shook that stigma in a lot of people's minds, unfortunately.

 

[MCtalkfunny]

Also had a urge to replay both of them and Mirnivas Den over the last month while waiting for Infinite's DLC. I would ranks them 1>Mirnirvas Den>>>>>>>2. I love bioshock 1, never had to much problem with the clumsy gameplay and love the world and characters. 2 does improve on the mechanics but has a horrible shoehorned story with a dumb plot and boring level design. Sophia Lamb is no Andrew Ryan, who I consider to be one of the best and well written performances in video games. I hate when sequels tell you how this character was there the whole time in one, you just never heard or saw from her the entire game. I get what they were going for but I really wish they didn't try and do another philosophy because it didn't make sense. Objectivism isn't just used in the first game to help color Ryan, it also has that extra layer about will and how important that is in objectivism and how you the player/Jack have none. In 2 it was just there so they could check a box. The story in 2 is just stupid, and poorly written. Still a good game but the weakest of the series.

 

[pa22word]

Great, good for them.
But community response alone suggests Bioshock 2 is a far lesser game than Bioshock 1. So regardless of whether people from Bioshock 1 worked one 2, it doesn't really matter if the soul isn't there, which apparently is Ken Levine.

"Soul" isn't an argument (it's a word people throw around when they can't properly convey their thoughts in words about why they like/dislike a game), and ad populum is a shitty one. Especially in a topic filled with mixed opinions rather than a teeter-totter in favor of one game vs the other.

 

[RoyalFool]

I kind of feel like the community response of people that have actually played the game and gave it a fair chance it rather good. The community response before playing the game was what was pretty damning, and it never shook that stigma in a lot of people's minds, unfortunately.

Bioshock 1 had pretty much universal praise whereas the sequel seems really mixed - I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that those who liked 2 are right and those who dislike it are jumped on the pre-release hate bandwagon and never gave it a chance. I just think that maybe people liked the original for various reasons, and while Bioshock 2 improved some things (thus why some players loved it) it also regressed in other areas - which could explain the divide.

 

[The Librarian]

I think one thing I wasn't a big fan of in BioShock 2 was the coupling of re-spawning enemies and a greater amount of enemies. The game just got incredibly repetitive at points. That Siren Alley level was just awful. The endless back tracking only made it more painful. Neither Daniel Wales nor Simon Wales were interesting in any way, they are probably among the weakest characters in the entire series

Despite that, I think my favorite level in all of the BioShock games, is, of all of them, Pauper's Drop. Grace Holloway was probably one of the best characters in the whole series. I could write essays on every single bloody character in the whole series, but I won't bore the majority of the people I talk to.

That's interesting. I really enjoyed Siren Alley, and I don't recall too much backtracking. They introduced the Spider Splicers here in the game and they're a lot more fun to fight than in BioShock 1. As I said in the topic post, there's a verticality to the level that made it a lot of fun to explore for me. And that ending.

 

[pa22word]

Also I wish people would stop using the term "B team" to describe the guys who made Bio2. It's more "a pool of lead designers on Bio1 wanted to make a direct sequel to Bio1 while Ken Levine wanted to do something else, so they splintered off and made Bio2".

 

[szaromir]

Bioshock 2 is a fresher experience, one with better story and gameplay as well.

 

[PanicFreak]

Aside from the story, the primary reason I prefer BioShock 1 is that its mechanics, while in come cases weaker than those of BioShock 2, were more cohesive with each other and the narrative. Like System Shock 2 before it, BioShock is a game about trying to survive with limited resources in an immersive, threatening atmosphere. The game encourages you to make the most of found ammo, actively research enemies, and consider your upgrades by making you never feel safe. The game keeps you from feeling too powerful, which makes the tension more consistent and satisfying throughout the game.

BioShock 2, while refining a lot of the combat mechanics, also removed the feeling of danger that linked the gameplay and narrative enjoyment of exploration. When you can take on a dozen splicers descending on a harvesting Little Sister, the worry of being outmatched and needing to be careful with your resources evaporates.

To summarize, BioShock 2 has better mechanics, but BioShock 1 is a better holistic experience.

I completely agree.

 

[Scrabble]

I think Minerva's Den is better than both to be honest. The original was incredible up until the twist, and then it becomes dull and mediocre for the next 5 or so hours.

 

[pop_tarts]

I loved the water in the first one. Most next gen water out there

 

[NIGHT-]

I loved the water in the first one. Most next gen water out there

Is it crazy I'm still blown away from the water in Kameo?

 

[NavyPharaoh]

Bioshock's demo hooked me, but the game falls flat after Ryan dies. EVERYTIME I replay the game I stop after Ryan dies. Like the OP said Fontaine just turns into a comic book villain. Rating it as top 5 this gen isn't accurate on my part. Still I'll always have fond memories of this classic.

2 I didn't give a fair chance as I deemed I didn't like it before it came out. After playing through Infinite I have bought 2 to give it a fair shake. Maybe it is a better sequel than Infinite. I just remember wondering where the hell were these "important people" during the events of 1. But I'm ready to look at this with a clean slate

 

[pop_tarts]

Is it crazy I'm still blown away from the water in Kameo?

It's alright, but it looks more like goo than actual water, maybe it's because of the art style. Think of Resistance 2 water that what it reminds me of. But BioShocks water felt good and looked believable to me personally.

 

[BeberMan]

Bioshock 1 had the better story of the two, but there's no denying how better Bioshock 2 plays. The flow of 2 is just better thanks to streamlined mechanics, and a better overall feel of the weapons and plasmids. Also, that Tower-Defense mechanic of watching over the little sister while she gathers Adam was so addicting. Setting Trap Rivet ammo around her and just watching the enemies not being able to even go near her was just awesome.

So yeah. Bioshock 2 is better.

 

[Gintoki313]

Bioshock 2 was ok, but I didn't like being a Big Daddy and having that drill (even though it was pretty cool). I liked being a human more and having a wrench to fight with in the beginning. Also I found the story of Bioshock 1 to be more interesting as well.

I still think Bioshock 2 is great, but I feel that Bioshock 1 is better.

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

I cannot imagine anyone prefering Bioshock 2 to 1.

Bioshock 1 was original, creative, compelling, rivetng and memorable.

Bioshock 2 was generic, insipid, bland, prosaic and utterly forgettable.

 

[Mustainium]

The use of a silent protagonist ruined the first Bioshock's story for me. At least in Bioshock 2, it made sense why the protagonist could not speak.

 

[krameriffic]

Even the multiplayer was great, it just needed better netcode.

It was literally the worst multiplayer I have ever played in any game ever.

 

[Currygan]

my preferences go as follows: Bioshock for the novelty, Bioshock 2 for the gameplay

 

[Conor 419]

BS1 > BS2 > Infinite

 

[NIGHT-]

The hell... Pc version of Bioshock 2 is gfwl and doesn't have controller support? The first game isn't gfw and has controller support? So backwards

 

[RDreamer]

Bought and started playing Minerva's Den because this thread reminded me.

 

[The Librarian]

Bioshock's demo hooked me, but the game falls flat after Ryan dies. EVERYTIME I replay the game I stop after Ryan dies. Like the OP said Fontaine just turns into a comic book villain. Rating it as top 5 this gen isn't accurate on my part. Still I'll always have fond memories of this classic.

2 I didn't give a fair chance as I deemed I didn't like it before it came out. After playing through Infinite I have bought 2 to give it a fair shake. Maybe it is a better sequel than Infinite. I just remember wondering where the hell were these "important people" during the events of 1. But I'm ready to look at this with a clean slate

Nice! Hope you enjoy it.

 

[Dragon1893]

I'm also replaying them right now.
I was as amazed as anyone else with Bioshock but in hindsight Bioshock 2's story did more for me with the whole

Spoiler

father/daughter relationship.

The Big Daddy/Little Sister thing is my favorite part of the whole Rapture lore so being able to

Spoiler

see the world through the eyes of a little sister was fascinating for me.

Gameplay has obviously been improved, being able to dual-wield makes such a huge difference, going back to the original is really jarring and makes you wonder why they didn't think of that in the first place.

So yeah, taking away the wow factor of the first game and comparing them objectively I'd say 2 wins, but of course that's unfair, the first was a landmark experience in gaming and you can't ignore that.

 

[truly101]

Bioshock's demo hooked me, but the game falls flat after Ryan dies. EVERYTIME I replay the game I stop after Ryan dies. Like the OP said Fontaine just turns into a comic book villain. Rating it as top 5 this gen isn't accurate on my part. Still I'll always have fond memories of this classic.

2 I didn't give a fair chance as I deemed I didn't like it before it came out. After playing through Infinite I have bought 2 to give it a fair shake. Maybe it is a better sequel than Infinite. I just remember wondering where the hell were these "important people" during the events of 1. But I'm ready to look at this with a clean slate

Like I said, I think Infinite legitimizes BS2 in terms of story and theme.

 

[MazingerDUDE]

BS2 had mediocre 'main' story, however it has far more intriguing audio logs. It added a lot more depth & details to the BS universe in general which I loved.

 

[Valtýr]

I found the design structure behind Bioshock 2 to be completely tedious and annoying. You're told to go rescue all the Little Sisters in a level and have to redo the same gameplay segment several times in a row. It's completely dull. It's why I stopped playing.

 

[Gorillaz]

I'm also replaying them right now.
I was as amazed as anyone else with Bioshock but in hindsight Bioshock 2's story did more for me with the whole

Spoiler

father/daughter relationship.

The Big Daddy/Little Sister thing is my favorite part of the whole Rapture lore so being able to

Spoiler

see the world through the eyes of a little sister was fascinating for me.

Gameplay has obviously been improved, being able to dual-wield makes such a huge difference, going back to the original is really jarring and makes you wonder why they didn't think of that in the first place.

So yeah, taking away the wow factor of the first game and comparing them objectively I'd say 2 wins, but of course that's unfair, the first was a landmark experience in gaming and you can't ignore that.

This was how I felt. BS2 fixed some gameplay things and actually had a better better final hour and ending compared to bs1

 

[TekGryphon]

It makes me sad to see opinions like this. That "B Team" did an insanely good job, and you could tell they poured their heart into it. It wasn't just a cash in sequel, they really did make a lot of things much better. And the multiplayer was actually rather fun. ]And just having multiplayer didn't take away from the single player, either.

I'm not necessarily pointing at you, but I do feel like a lot of GAF had that initial reaction and then never gave it a fair shake.

Bolded part is dead wrong unless the development studio somehow created an alternate reality to dip into that allowed them free staff, free resources, and free hours.