bitbydeath
Member
Software is the same, all games releasing on X and S use the same software and release within the one package, the only differences are configurations made due to hardware differences.
The issue is hardware.
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Baldur's Gate 3 for the Xbox isnt ruled out
- Thread starter Draugoth
- Start date
The issue is hardware.
It has nothing to do with knowing their codebase. What you're saying doesn't make sense. They wouldn't structure their code differently between X and S to have concurrency issues on one and not the other. It would make even less sense then considering one has been deliberately structured differently specifically for a particular machine/spec.
You are asking me to debug something that I can't see...
They wouldn't structure the code diffently no, but if a task finishes faster/slower than expected on that one SKU, that could easily create these issues.
It's irrelevant to bring up the Windows version, it's not the same codebase even if 90% is shared the issue could be on the platform specific code and who knows maybe IT IS there on some systems but they were never able to replicate it.
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I'm not asking you to debug anything just saying it wouldn't make sense given the information you have to be concurrency issues that are not hardware related. When you debug it's a good idea to have an idea of what could be the issue to know where to look at least.
I think you've misunderstood what the resetera guy is saying and he has not read the developer quote with the exact issue that was given by the devs later elsewhere.
The resetera guy seems to think it's a technical issue affecting the xbox platform as a whole. Ie they are running into bugs on X and S, whereas it's not. in the later quote it's made clear that the X and S co-op do not run to the same standard which is a requirement to ship.
The resetera guy siad:
"Different hardware and SDKs can expose different issues in an engine, it's just that simple (as it is maddening). It could be something like the difference with in DX12.. (They haven't talked about what the problem is or even alluded to it, so I'm just spit balling a possible scenario.)"
Now if you're saying it's not an API difference and we have information that we are not talking about different platforms anymore i.e. we have the same SDK/compiler for series x and series s, what remains?
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To have a good idea where to start, you'd first need to understand how the engine handles parallel processing or where the issue is happening.
The quote wasn't meant for that post, I was replying to someone else, I immediately edited it out. 20 minutes ago to be exact.
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If there is an issue with the code the bug exists on both the X and the S but it's still ultimately a hardware difference presenting that concurrency issue. The hardware difference shows the issue on one and not the other because the API, the SDK/compiler and the code are the same between the two machines.
I don't think there would be concurrency issues with the game engine because they are releasing it for far more varying configurations on PC anyway. so suggesting they are stuck on some concurrency bug that reared its head on the S due to hardware differences seems farfetched to begin with. It's likely required hardware optimisation to get acceptable standards between the S and X with the hardware demanding splitscreen to be able to ship.
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Topher
Gold Member
I think when he says "the statement does not say that" he is referring to "Reason why it's not releasing on Xbox is DUE TO TECHNICAL ISSUES GETTING THE GAME TO RUN". And he is right. It doesn't say that. The statement is specific about what the issue is:
"We’ve run into some technical issues in developing the Xbox port that have stopped us feeling 100% confident in announcing it until we’re certain we’ve found the right solutions – specifically, we’ve been unable to get splitscreen co-op to work to the same standard on both Xbox Series X and S, which is a requirement for us to ship."
Splitscreen co-op has to work to "the same standard" on both XSX and XSS. They are having issues accomplishing that. That's what we know. Nothing more.
Topher
Gold Member
I wasn't familiar with him until the acquisition thread. The more I see, the less I like.
I'm not saying it's a concurrency issue, you asked me for an example of an application level issue that can manifest on the same OS/SDK on different hardware, but it could very well be who knows? I don't. But saying it has to be related to hardware specifications is just baseless speculation, yes farfetched issues like this happen all the time in game development, it not always smooth sailing.
Again, don't compare the PC versions it could very well be something platform especific, the Xbox version and PC don't share the same codebase 1:1 even when built side by side on XDK w/ DX12U, specially in splitscreen co-op where you most likely have to deal with, say, multiple profile management. (I'm not saying it's profile management, I'm just giving one example)
"Likely", but not certainly, don't assume that.
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Skifi28
Member
Now I can agree.
I was asking for a difference in software between the S and the X and you were under the impression that the codebase is different.
But concurrency bug manifesting on different hardware is ultimately related to the hardware differences still and not a "difference in software" between the S and the X. I also said it's unlikely to be it because of experience with a great deal of configurations on other platforms, but that was a separate point.
I think it's best to just apply occam's razor here. The splitscreen coop between the X and the S do not match due to hardware differences between the two.
Where did I say that the X and S codebases are different? I think I made my point clear that the issues could very well be happening on how the runtime evolves on each machine.
Sure, it happens on one but not the other, but the root cause is an application level issue, it just happens to manifest in one but not the other.
I'd agree to that if I didn't knew that apply occam's razor will turn an assumption into fact, even if it is the most likely scenario.
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You said there is a software difference between the versions:
The fact that a bug manifests on one and not the other is still ultimately due to the machines specs and not a software difference between the S and X versions, that was the only point. There is no real software difference, only a hardware one.
Don’t spout bull crap as fact.
I meant software related difference, we've been talking about possible runtime issue afterall.
I didn't meant codebase difference as someone said above the package is the same between X and S.
Again, it doesn't have to be ultimately due to the machines spec. This is "works on my machine" level troubleshooting, bringing back the concurrency example again, if a task is finishing faster than expected, because it only had to render a stencil buffer at quarter res on S, is this because of the hardware differences or is an application issue?
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TheGodfather07
Member
It's not bullcrap. Look at the splits for recent games. Hogwarts legacy is the latest example. It actually is a fact that software sales on xbox are lower than they used to be. It doesn't help that they've sold half the consoles sony have, so the install base just isn't there.
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So you don’t think developers can choose lower resolution textures? Use your brain.
Sure it is. You don’t have to be the market leader to be able to make money. Plenty of people by games on Xbox.
solidus12
Member
Just stick to Mystic Ryan; he covers PS news with no console war bs.
TheGodfather07
Member
Yes they do but I was correcting you on what you said. It isn't bullcrap that software sales are lower on xbox compared to what they used to be. That's all.
Different cu counts.
When is “used to be”? Let’s see the actual data.
TheGodfather07
Member
Microsoft literally telling you isn't enough? Do your own research man. Check the quarterly reports and software charts.
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YeulEmeralda
Member
Baldur's Gate. Niche. Yep nurse I'm ready for assisted suicide now. 
Team Andromeda
Member
I remember when CORE said the same about Tomb Raider 2 on the Saturn only for it to turn out SONY did do a deal
Goalus
Member
The "technical issues" are probably the suitcase full of money that Sony sent being too heavy.
Mr Hyde
Member
Out of curiosity I went down the Twitter rabbit hole for the first time when I saw that Red Dragon account, and holy shit, what a god damn cesspool. Now I know why I'm steering clear of places like that.
Team Andromeda
Member
Yep, just like how the Saturn couldn't handle Tomb Raider 2 and nothing to do with over 200 million quid off SONY
Talkin Hawkin
Banned
sounds like they can't sort the problem out on the S, but Microsoft won't let them ship the game without feature parity on both S and X.
At some point, the S has to become a streaming console.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Gotta love some red dragon, colt Eastwood, all those crazies....
I'd love to get them all in a room together and watch it for like 1 minute 30 seconds then I'd probably have to leave.
I'd love to get them all in a room together and watch it for like 1 minute 30 seconds then I'd probably have to leave.
Ouch. Not that long into this gen and series S / X release parity is already seeing major issues, effectively for the time being blocking the release of a pretty big game. They should have really gone the Sony route with S, and just had it specced the same but just all digital.
Split screen had been a problem for years on recent gen console, hence why they have been so rare in the last decade. In theory this issue should be resolved with the series X and ps5. But looks like it’s not the case with the series S.
Split screen had been a problem for years on recent gen console, hence why they have been so rare in the last decade. In theory this issue should be resolved with the series X and ps5. But looks like it’s not the case with the series S.
Riky
$MSFT
That Red Dragon crazy has just been corrected by the dev when he said it was a Series S issue.
Mibu no ookami
Member
People probably wondering why they can't just get it working.
Basically they've missed sprint for split screen co-op is done and it's worked on the other systems, but the Series S obviously gave them difficulty.
To go back and add split screen co-op to another sprint would potentially cause the game to be delayed.
The game has to go gold by July. Ignoring any additional time for QA that would give you like 9 sprints. That just isn't a lot of time and those sprints are probably already packed.
They are probably struggling getting a suitable framerate and resolution in that mode.
There is a reason games like Forza and Halo don't have split screen and its the XSS and x1
Basically they've missed sprint for split screen co-op is done and it's worked on the other systems, but the Series S obviously gave them difficulty.
To go back and add split screen co-op to another sprint would potentially cause the game to be delayed.
The game has to go gold by July. Ignoring any additional time for QA that would give you like 9 sprints. That just isn't a lot of time and those sprints are probably already packed.
They are probably struggling getting a suitable framerate and resolution in that mode.
There is a reason games like Forza and Halo don't have split screen and its the XSS and x1
That's a hardware difference again
It's again ultimately the hardware difference that has them render the stencil buffer at quarter res but you seem keen to pin this on some kind of incompetent coding and coming up with elaborate theories. Incompetent coding which doesn't seem to rear its head on PC code which might have differences in res much greater than quarter res and different CPUs to boot.
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It's not incompetent coding, these things happen in all across the globe, nothing is bug free. It might be something not existing on the PC version, their codebase don't match or something that does exist but hasn't been replicated yet, it wouldn't be the first, second, third or last time it happened, you seem to keep ignoring this for some reason.
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Thirty7ven
Banned
We had an Id dev saying Series S would hold it back, that it was more than simply lowering resolution. Then MS bought Bethesda and they deleted the tweet.
It is what is. The PS5/Sx will feel old later in the gen just like every generation before it, so I can only laugh at the idea that Series S will be smooth sailing.
Portugeezer
Member
So if it's not a Series S thing, we're supposed to believe they're having trouble with splitscreen on Series X?
I read it as X being fine (being the more powerful console of the two) but S can't match it for whatever technical issue they are having, which they want/need to.
Topher
Gold Member
Well, first, I was just trying to be clear about what was said rather than point to anything specific beyond that. I think it is probably a safe assumption that getting splitscreen working correctly on the less powerful hardware is the crux of the issue. The key point here is that Larian is required to make splitscreen work to the "same standard" regardless of whether it is on XSX or XSS.
I wonder if this was the same issue 343 had with splitscreen coop on Halo Infinite.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
DaGwaphics
Member
If split-screen coop is an issue, just drop it. Ain't nobody that interested in that in 2023! Good lord, you'd have to actually know people.
@
Heisenberg007
you realize that what you posted is regarding titles that are in GP right? Which this game isn't, and if it was that would just give them more incentive to complete the Xbox version not less. Basically it is completely irrelevant to this conversation.
@
Heisenberg007
you realize that what you posted is regarding titles that are in GP right? Which this game isn't, and if it was that would just give them more incentive to complete the Xbox version not less. Basically it is completely irrelevant to this conversation.
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Topher
Gold Member
If split-screen coop is an issue, just drop it. Ain't nobody that interested in that in 2023! Good lord, you'd have to actually know people.
If they drop it then they would probably have to drop it on PS5 as well. Feature parity clauses.
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