• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Australian woman calls 911, shot dead by responding police in Minneapolis

So this cop opens fire because of a loud bang (fireworks) on the first person who appeared at the window?
And refuses to talk to investigators?

Why are we still talking about this he should be charged with negligent homicide, manslaughter or murder, take your damn pick!

He fears for his family due to reporters? I fear for his kids! what if one of them has a toy gun? drops a heavy object? BAM
 
American cops seem to have such a nervous disposition that, practically speaking, they're more of a threat to normal citizens than the criminals are. It's like they've all been watching too many Lethal Weapon movies and decided that "loose cannon" is now the goal to aspire to.

[Edit]Redacted[/Edit]
 
I'm surprised US gang violence is even still a thing anymore. If those African american gangs were smart, they'd just call the cops on their rival gang's members and let the pigs with nervous itchy trigger fingers do the murdering for them; since that's what they're gonna do anyway, and they seem to do it so well with full impunity.

I mean...fuck...

Like you typed this and hit reply. Wow.
 
American cops seem to have such a nervous disposition that, practically speaking, they're more of a threat to normal citizens than the criminals are. It's like they've all been watching too many Lethal Weapon movies and decided that "loose cannon" is now the goal to aspire to.

I'm surprised US gang violence is even still a thing anymore. If those African american gangs were smart, they'd just call the cops on their rival gang's members and let the pigs with nervous itchy trigger fingers do the murdering for them; since that's what they're gonna do anyway, and they seem to do it so well with full impunity.

Don't you think the cops have thought of this? The cops will encourage the gangs shoot each other first.

If I have break it down for you, the police is smarter than the gangs.

Haven't you watched any police procedual?
 
Don't you think the cops have thought of this? The cops will encourage the gangs shoot each other first.

If I have break it down for you, the police is smarter than the gangs.

Haven't you watched any police procedual?

Whilst it wasn't a serious post, the incident in the OP would contradict the bolded.
 

ec0ec0

Member
Sorry for my ignorance, but every time i see one of these topics of an american cop killing or wounding someone with a gun, it always comes to mind that responding to a call as a cop (going to the place), has to be a completely different thing in a country completely filled with guns, right? compared to the same thing in europe?

(never asked about it)
 
Sorry for my ignorance, but every time i see one of these topics of an american cop killing or wounding someone with a gun, it always comes to mind that responding to a call as a cop (going to the place), has to be a completely different thing in a country completely filled with guns, right? compared to the same thing in europe?

(never asked about it)

Well you also have hero worship, so showing up and doing something terrible like this you always have the "I feared for my life" line and juries buy it hook line and sinker. I mean look at the campus cop who had two hung juries when he clearly opened fire on someone and wasn't in danger. Or the hung jury for the cop who shot a guy running away. When you don't get punished, who cares right?
 

Kettch

Member
Sorry for my ignorance, but every time i see one of these topics of an american cop killing or wounding someone with a gun, it always comes to mind that responding to a call as a cop (going to the place), has to be a completely different thing in a country completely filled with guns, right? compared to the same thing in europe?

(never asked about it)

The problem with bringing this up, is that police organizations are fully behind the second amendment. They don't want gun control.

They want people to have guns and they want to shoot people if they're scared they have guns. It's hard to have any sympathy for their position when they make no effort to fix it.
 

ec0ec0

Member
Well you also have hero worship, so showing up and doing something terrible like this you always have the "I feared for my life" line and juries buy it hook line and sinker. I mean look at the campus cop who had two hung juries when he clearly opened fire on someone and wasn't in danger. Or the hung jury for the cop who shot a guy running away. When you don't get punished, who cares right?

but the reason they can use the "I feared for my life" line, is because the country is indeed filled with guns, so they can arguee that the other person having a gun was an actual feasible scenario, right?

they wouldn't be able to so the same thing is europe, as you wouldn't be able to arguee that the other person having a gun was actually a probable/feasible scenario, right? I mean, everything is possible, but if you enter in someones house here in spain, no one is going to have a gun.
 

ec0ec0

Member
The problem with bringing this up, is that police organizations are fully behind the second amendment. They don't want gun control.

They want people to have guns and they want to shoot people if they're scared they have guns. It's hard to have any sympathy for their position when they make no effort to fix it.

i'm just asking becuase, each time this happens and there's one of these threads, the first thing i read is people criticizing police training, and even though that might be a problem, common sense tell you that the root of the issue is that cops are responding to a call in a country where anyone can have a gun. So, when they go to the place, they can't be confident that they are the only ones carrying a gun, which wouldn't be a problem in europe, no?
 
i'm just asking becuase, each time this happens and there's one of these thread, the first thing i read is people criticizing police training, and even though that might be a problem, common sense tell you that the root of the issue is that cops are atending calls in a country where anyone can have a gun. So, when they go to the place, they can't be confident that they are the only ones carrying a gun, which wouldn't be a problem in europe.

I mean they choked a guy to death, they shot another guy running away, they shot another kid with his back turned and walking away. We had a thread of them planting drugs in NJ to get a subsequent arrest.

Guns, no guns, I'm sure they will find away to swing the "I feared for my life." And if go down the path of animals, there have been numerous incidents of cops just wanting to unload on them as well: big 300lb cop shooting a small terrier because he was afraid, cop shooting two service dogs in the face after entering the owners backyard (I think they thought it was another location), cops shooting a dog in a house before shooting the owner and one of their own because they went to the wrong location, etc, etc.
 

EGM1966

Member
The problem with bringing this up, is that police organizations are fully behind the second amendment. They don't want gun control.

They want people to have guns and they want to shoot people if they're scared they have guns. It's hard to have any sympathy for their position when they make no effort to fix it.

Intellectually this blows my mind. It's so, so idiotic and stupid. The statistics in every other western country illustrate this is the wrong approach.

The last thing you want is an armed populace (for everyone's own good collectively) and a separate and armed police force.
 
i'm just asking becuase, each time this happens and there's one of these threads, the first thing i read is people criticizing police training, and even though that might be a problem, common sense tell you that the root of the issue is that cops are responding to a call in a country where anyone can have a gun. So, when they go to the place, they can't be confident that they are the only ones carrying a gun, which wouldn't be a problem in europe, no?

It's a training and culture problem.

1. Cops are drilled to be paranoid and shoot first ask questions later. Split second mistakes. They don't shoot, their partner or they could be killed.

2. Cops are underpaid and overworked and as such they develop a culture that protects itself. The idea is they're superior and know whats best. Cops above all else care for each other more then us. If a Cop had to choose a civilian over another Cop they'd pick the Cop everytime.
 

ec0ec0

Member
I mean they choked a guy to death, they shot another guy running away, they shot another kid with his back turned and walking away. We had a thread of them planting drugs in NJ to get a subsequent arrest.

Guns, no guns, I'm sure they will find away to swing the "I feared for my life." And if go down the path of animals, there have been numerous incidents of cops just wanting to unload on them as well: big 300lb cop shooting a small terrier because he was afraid, cop shooting two service dogs in the face after entering the owners backyard (I think they thought it was another location), cops shooting a dog in a house before shooting the owner and one of their own because they went to the wrong location, etc, etc.

so what you're saying is that over and over, cops are showing that they shot to easily, which would indicate a problem with their training. And that problem wouldn't go away just by having some kind of gun control, or the cop being aware that he's the only one with a gun. Yes?
 
This story is awful, and you'd hope that it being a foreign citizen will lead to some hard scrutiny/soul searching for the police, and their relationship with the populace in general.

It's a training and culture problem.

1. Cops are drilled to be paranoid and shoot first ask questions later. Split second mistakes. They don't shoot, their partner or they could be killed.

2. Cops are underpaid and overworked and as such they develop a culture that protects itself. The idea is they're superior and know whats best. Cops above all else care for each other more then us. If a Cop had to choose a civilian over another Cop they'd pick the Cop everytime.

That's an awful environment/culture for law enforcement to operate under.

UK police aren't perfect, but I have a lot of respect for those who enter the force here, and wouldn't be scared to approach them.

Heck, I've seen armed officers pose for selfies here, haha.
 

Tecnniqe

Banned
so what you're saying is that over and over, cops are showing that they shot to easily, which would indicate a problem with their training. And that problem wouldn't go away just by having some kind of gun control, or the cop being aware that he's the only one with a gun. Yes?
If you compared US police force training to regular western police forces or any other police force for that matter I'm sure there is a big gap in the training periods.
 
If you compared US police force training to regular western police forces or any other police force for that matter I'm sure there is a big gap in the training periods.

How long is the typical training regime for US officers?

I get the impression that it's... short.
 

Donos

Member
I just heard on radio that his partner said that they heard a loud bang just before shooting.


The only solution is to prevent black cops from having guns in the first place. Enough is enough.
 

ec0ec0

Member
It's a training and culture problem.

1. Cops are drilled to be paranoid and shoot first ask questions later. Split second mistakes. They don't shoot, their partner or they could be killed.

2. Cops are underpaid and overworked and as such they develop a culture that protects itself. The idea is they're superior and know whats best. Cops above all else care for each other more then us. If a Cop had to choose a civilian over another Cop they'd pick the Cop everytime.

Thanks for the answer.

Not to beat a dead horse, but isn't the fact that it is feasible that the other person may have a gun, what brings this mentality of "if i don't shoot, me or my partner may get killed"?

is there a reason to be scared of dying when just responding to a call in europe?
 

F34R

Member
American cops seem to have such a nervous disposition that, practically speaking, they're more of a threat to normal citizens than the criminals are. It's like they've all been watching too many Lethal Weapon movies and decided that "loose cannon" is now the goal to aspire to.

I'm surprised US gang violence is even still a thing anymore. If those African american gangs were smart, they'd just call the cops on their rival gang's members and let the pigs with nervous itchy trigger fingers do the murdering for them; since that's what they're gonna do anyway, and they seem to do it so well with full impunity.

This is ridiculous.

Look...

2015 - Death by cop 991. 772 of those deaths, the person was armed with a deadly weapon. The murder numbers for 2015, 15,679. 71% of those murders were with a firearm. There were over 90,000 rapes and 327,374 robberies, 40.8% of those were with firearms.
 

ec0ec0

Member
Intellectually this blows my mind. It's so, so idiotic and stupid. The statistics in every other western country illustrate this is the wrong approach.

The last thing you want is an armed populace (for everyone's own good collectively) and a separate and armed police force.

agreed

(isn't it just stupid that i've to say that i agree with something like this)
 
LMFAO @ this thread being dead. Did the OT BlueLivesMatter brigade all get banned or something? Did Satan die while I wasn't looking, and now all the Devil's Advocates are vying for his throne in Hell?
I am still waiting on FBI crime stats, "Black on Black crime", and Chicago to be invoked in this thread.

#BacktheBlue where y'all at?
 
Apparently it's common practice for cops in Minnesota to shoot first and ask questions later.

How you gonna spin this, Blue Lives Matter activists? She's an illegal immigrant?!?
 
This is ridiculous.

Look...

2015 - Death by cop 991. 772 of those deaths, the person was armed with a deadly weapon. The murder numbers for 2015, 15,679. 71% of those murders were with a firearm. There were over 90,000 rapes and 327,374 robberies, 40.8% of those were with firearms.

Yikes at those numbers.

So fear everyone and everything in America then?
 
I think the source of criticism on the post is your equating gang violence with solely the acitivity of "African American gangs."

I wasn't doing that at all. At least that wasn't my intention. Apologies if it came across that way.

I only mentioned African American gangs because African Americans are more than often the ones who are victims of police shootings.
 

TheOMan

Tagged as I see fit
So odd that the blue wall of silence isn't in effect here.

So so odd.

I just can't figure out why this one would be different.

Remember, the wall is why all the good cops that hate and detest the bad ones can't do anything about it!!!

Just amazing that its finally been broken!

Well, you see, he's black.
 
I wasn't doing that at all. At least that wasn't my intention. Apologies if it came across that way.

I only mentioned African American gangs because African Americans are more than often the ones who are victims of police shootings.

Alright, I'm not trying to impune your character and reading it, I was pretty sure it wasn't your intention. But is what you said:

I'm surprised US gang violence is even still a thing anymore. If those African american gangs were smart, they'd just call the cops on their rival gang's members and let the pigs with nervous itchy trigger fingers do the murdering for them; since that's what they're gonna do anyway, and they seem to do it so well with full impunity.

US gang violence wouldn't be a thing if the African American gangs used this tactic, is what your sardonic joke states. So I think this is worth walking through what happened here:

  1. You make joke
  2. Poster takes offense at the jokes implication
  3. You don't undertand why they're taking offense
  4. I explain why
  5. You jump to "I'm not racist!!" instead of reading your post and just simply saying "I see how that could be read that way, sorry, totally not my intention," or even better, reflecting inward and asking yourself if your post evidenced an implicit connection for you between US gang violence and African Americans.

To be clear, I'm not angry at you or offended, but I think this is illustrative of how quickly this conversations can go south.
 
Alright, I'm not trying to impune your character and reading it, I was pretty sure it wasn't your intention. But is what you said:



US gang violence wouldn't be a thing if the African American gangs used this tactic, is what your sardonic joke states. So I think this is worth walking through what happened here:

  1. You make joke
  2. Poster takes offense at the jokes implication
  3. You don't undertand why they're taking offense
  4. I explain why
  5. You jump to "I'm not racist!!" instead of reading your post and just simply saying "I see how that could be read that way, sorry, totally not my intention," or even better, reflecting inward and asking yourself if your post evidenced an implicit connection for you between US gang violence and African Americans.


To be clear, I'm not angry at you or offended, but I think this is illustrative of how quickly this conversations can go south.

Whoa there cowboy... I did nothing of the sort. I apologized and stated that it wasn't my intention to associate gang violence to the activity of african american gangs. Where exactly did say anything that amounts to "I'm not a racist?"

I realized how the post I made can be read and I assumed my apology implied an admission that my original post was very badly worded.

For the record I'm a British black African myself, so I identify with the issues of racism seen in the US.
 

F34R

Member
I wasn't doing that at all. At least that wasn't my intention. Apologies if it came across that way.

I only mentioned African American gangs because African Americans are more than often the ones who are victims of police shootings.
No they aren't. *click on date for full report stats.

2015 - 991
  • White - 495
  • Black - 258

2016 - 963
  • White - 465
  • Black - 233

2017 - 547
  • White - 232
  • Black - 121
 
Why are so many American police officers so eager to pull out their guns?

Surely they're trained to use firearms in extreme circumstances only?

They're trained to be paranoid and that their life is at risk at any given moment, and it's clearly shoot or be shot - be it a woman in pajamas, a black man lying on the ground with his arms behind his head, or a puppy wagging it's tail.
 

F34R

Member
I wasn't doing that at all. At least that wasn't my intention. Apologies if it came across that way.

I only mentioned African American gangs because African Americans are more than often the ones who are victims of police shootings.

Take those numbers and extrapolate that to the population percentage of White v blacks in America. It's a disproportionate amount.

That's completely different from what he's saying. I know full well the per capita numbers based on race. "More likely" isn't the same as "More often".
 

ApharmdX

Banned
No they aren't. *click on date for full report stats.

2015 - 991
  • White - 495
  • Black - 258

2016 - 963
  • White - 465
  • Black - 233

2017 - 547
  • White - 232
  • Black - 121

Blacks are less than 13% of the American populace. Those numbers you posted are crazy in light of that.

For some reason I can't put my finger on, BlueLivesMatter are silent on this. Again not completely sure why yea.

Thankfully we know he'll face justice and serve a prison sentence.

Yep, and also not a single story in the media of how this woman smoked marijuana as a teen and so she was a dangerous criminal, or how she had speeding tickets, or the usual character assassination.
 

F34R

Member
Blacks are less than 13% of the American populace. Those numbers you posted are crazy in light of that.



Yep, and also not a single story in the media of how this woman smoked marijuana as a teen and so she was a dangerous criminal, or how she had speeding tickets, or the usual character assassination.

We posted at the same time.
 

ApharmdX

Banned
We posted at the same time.

I wasn't disagreeing with your post on its face, you are correct that whites are more often victims of police shootings (that result in fatality, at least). The numbers you posted don't include police shootings where the victim survived, or situations where TASER/etc. were deployed and resulted in fatality, and AFAIK there's no way to get those stats accurately. Even the WashPo's fatal police shooting stats are aggregate and perhaps incomplete... there's no national requirement/standard for use-of-force reporting, which is clearly by design... though the FBI is starting to push their standard now.

My point is that, if you look at the numbers by percentage of population, they are extremely damning. Even more so if you look at unarmed victims:

2015- 94
32 white
38 black

2016- 48
22 white
17 black

2017- 28
13 white
8 black
 

F34R

Member
I wasn't disagreeing with your post on its face, you are correct that whites are more often victims of police shootings (that result in fatality, at least). The numbers you posted don't include police shootings where the victim survived, or situations where TASER/etc. were deployed and resulted in fatality, and AFAIK there's no way to get those stats accurately. Even the WashPo's fatal police shooting stats are aggregate and perhaps incomplete... there's no national requirement/standard for use-of-force reporting, which is clearly by design... though the FBI is starting to push their standard now.

My point is that, if you look at the numbers by percentage of population, they are extremely damning. Even more so if you look at unarmed victims:

2015- 94
32 white
38 black

2016- 48
22 white
17 black

2017- 28
13 white
8 black
Unfortunately, we can't really debate on numbers that aren't available. Guessing never works. So we can really only go with what we have. I am not arguing the percentage/population info. Just simply giving him the info that is out there based on what he's saying.
 
Top Bottom