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[Victor Omega]

I always wanted to get a series of threads where we talking about audio in gaming.

• What could 3D audio bring to gaming?
• Do we have examples of good audio design this generation? (Not just atmospherics and panning from L/R)
• Where does HiFi (High fidelity) audio like FLAC and high bitrate MP3 fit in to gaming? Does 3D mean support for HiFi audio?
• Audio latency technology. How is it today?

Of course, when we talk sound we must also talk hardware. What are some good headphones and home speaker would you recommend

Edit: Forgive the typo in the title ugh, Mod plz help? Lol

 

[Victor Omega]

To start:

Imagine sliding your fingers across wood, metal, plastic and water surface.

not just a simple pre-recorded sound (wood.sfx) associated to each plain but rather, AI suggesting and creating a unique sound base on the texture(smooth wood rippled wood)


3D Spacial Audio ala the "Ray Tracing" of audio

Audio you can visually touch in a 3D space: a television upstairs vs a stove cooking next to you. Audio that feels like it's behind you.

 

[Reallink]

From what I gather PS5's 3D audio is just Sony's descriptor for being object based, such as Dolby Atmos or DTS-X. The difference is it will use some form of virtual sound wave path tracing (they've described it as ray traced audio) which will presumably allow for more realistic placement of the sounds and presumably can layer on things like virtual room reflections and echo's based on the in game environments (e.g. a gun fired indoors obviously sounds vastly different than in an open field, a small bedroom vastly different than a warehouse, etc...). This is my own inference at least, I don't think they've formally detailed what exactly it is.

Current gen game audio can AFAIK already be completely lossless (and often is), but with capacity at a premium on the NVMe SSD's, and current gen games already blowing past 100+GB filesizes, we could possibly see aggressive/destructive audio compression making a comeback which would be ironic given Sony's push. Hopefully not though.

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

Kojima's next game will have some of the best audio design of all-time if he decides to develop a full-blown horror game.

Play P.T. to hear a glimpse of his audio team's genius!

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

Also, Mark Cerny confirmed that PS5 will have a dedicated 3D Audio chip which would convert virtually any stereo headphone into a 3D headphone.

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

"3D" and binaural audio is already here. Has been for some time, however the list of supported titles isn't huge. To do it properly on current hardware is possible but computationally non-trivial.
Minecraft is a good implementation of HRTF, and combined with the sound physics mod it's incredible; though a pain in the arse to set up (1.12.2 is the latest version to support sound physics and it doesn't support HRTF out of the box)

 

[longdi]

Imo it means go out and buy a fricking good pair of speakers, a sub and some amplification.

Slowely add surround speakers if those are your needs going forward

 

[Tarkus98]

Having a dedicated chip to process 3D audio is going to make games more immersive for certain. Sound plays a huge part in games that often goes unnoticed.

Now with the opportunity to have discrete object and placement based effects this will do wonders for horror games. Well all games really.

Anyone that has used the PSVR has already gotten a taste of what to expect. This will be even better.

 

[ZywyPL]

The real question is will it actually make any difference for standard TV stereo speakers? Like you know, from where the vast majority of users hears the games? Because if not, then only a tiny group with 5.1/7.1/Atmos/DTS-X/gaming headsets will be able to actually utilize the new tech, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's limited only to Atmos/DTS-X setups to begin with, which would even further narrow the potential beneficiaries. But then again, I'd expect Sony to make their own dedicated PS5 headset.

 

[888]

I want More games that have native atmos. Forza Horizon 4 sounds crazy on the races with the overhead planes etc. the halo mission in particular. I always appreciate great audio, it’s more important to me than HDR.

 

[Tarkus98]

The real question is will it actually make any difference for standard TV stereo speakers? Like you know, from where the vast majority of users hears the games? Because if not, then only a tiny group with 5.1/7.1/Atmos/DTS-X/gaming headsets will be able to actually utilize the new tech, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's limited only to Atmos/DTS-X setups to begin with, which would even further narrow the potential beneficiaries. But then again, I'd expect Sony to make their own dedicated PS5 headset.

This will work just fine with regular headsets, earbuds too. If you have never experienced it before (especially when well implemented) you will hopefully be pleasantly surprised.
And yes it will work with standard television speakers but they are just so severely limiting due to placement and overall “quality” of the speakers themselves (generally speaking).

 

[A Most Virtuous Cat]

To start:

Imagine sliding your fingers across wood, metal, plastic and water surface.

not just a simple pre-recorded sound (wood.sfx) associated to each plain but rather, AI suggesting and creating a unique sound base on the texture(smooth wood rippled wood)


3D Spacial Audio ala the "Ray Tracing" of audio

Audio you can visually touch in a 3D space: a television upstairs vs a stove cooking next to you. Audio that feels like it's behind you.

So, will special hardware be needed to experience this? Or will stereo earphones/ headphones deliver the same experience?

 

[farmerboy]

Sound is underrated by the masses. Well done audio can increase the immersion to extreme levels. Whilst our eyes can discern that the graphics we see aren't real, our ears cannot do the same with well done audio. And this will further blur those lines.

I think we'll be amazed when we see a dev properly utilize this.

Imagine Dead Space's audio with a fidelity ten fold of what it was.

Or hearing a gun shot go off but you know it's a few blocks away. Or hearing a clicker and you know it's right behind you.

I can't wait.

 

[MeatSafeMurderer]

So, will special hardware be needed to experience this? Or will stereo earphones/ headphones deliver the same experience?

How many ears do you have? 2? 5? 7? Surround sound is only useful at room scale, and even there it's beginning to outlive its usefulness as we find ways to account for the...less than optimal speaker placement. All those "7.1 surround sound" headphones are really doing is downmixing to stereo, which your console / PC can do just fine...actually it can probably do it better since it has access to the actual positional audio. You're basically paying for snake oil. Pick up a decent pair of stereo cans and you're all set. Hell, even (good) earbuds may suffice.

 

[Whitecrow]

stereo to binaural?

 

[Karppuuna]

PSVR have 3D audio, it add more immersion, it feels like everything is around you.

 

[Allandor]

3D audio is nothing new. Even the PS3 (which had extra audio-hardware as far as I know) & xbox 360 could do it (and did). Don't try to start a new hype about old stuff.
The xbox one also has dedicated audio hardware, but well.. more than dolby atmos ... I don't know if this was ever used. And the PS4 had the default AMD audio features (with hardware support).

 

[JohnnyFootball]

I hope it means that Sony will implement Dolby Atmos and/or DTS:X in their games.

MS has already implemented Atmos support in their Xbox One X.

 

[Poepsnor]

I hope it means that Sony will implement Dolby Atmos and/or DTS:X in their games.

MS has already implemented Atmos support in their Xbox One X.

That's what i also hope for. My movie/gameroom has Dolby Atmos/DTS:X 7.2.4. It would suck if i have to use headphones there.

 

[Spukc]

All i need is hdr + dolby atmos
And none of that fake ass reflecting sound on ceiling.

Physical speakers mounted on your ceiling

 

[GenericUser]

Maybe Sony really knows they can't compete with the raw processing power of the next xbox, and they need some other fancy marketing term to make up for it.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Sony: Look at this state of the art tomato based spread that can be smothered on this dough, and watch how we perfectly sprinkle touches of coagulated milk on top. Then marvel as we bake this shit and serve it up! We are amazing!

Everybody else in the world who wasn’t born yesterday: So a pizza then.

Look don’t get me wrong, audio is my thing. I can’t wait for audio to get the kick it needs and it’s great seeing it finally getting recognition. But this shits not new... I’ve been using it in various forms for over 10 years at least. It’s not even the first console to support this sort of thing.

It gets so old seeing Sony as usual hype up everything so much. A logo, 3d audio... what next, the console having a light?

If MS did this, and they have done, this would be a 97 page thread by now.

 

[ethomaz]

3D Audio is what Dolby Atmos and DTS Virtual: X does.
It added the audio coming from top giving the 3D immersion.
The surround only has the sound coming from you front, back and sides.... so 3D audio give you a new layer (dimension) from where the some reache your ears.

Exemple: A helicopter traveling sound will fells like it is above your head so you will look to the sky to see it.

 

[a multicultural team of v]

There are two parts to this I think. One is the 3D audio out of the speaker piece, where sounds sound like they are coming from all around you. PSVR already has this, and there are plenty of surround setups that do this already.

The other piece is the realistic generation of the sounds themselves. A gunshot from two rooms over will sound different if the walls are wood vs concrete. A gunshot will sound different if the room is L shaped vs a large square - that kind of stuff, all being generated on the fly, not using prerecorded sounds. This is the new piece and is what they are pushing.

 

[MaximusPayne]

Allow me to use my Atmos setup in games and I will be happy. Hopefully this is what that means.

 

[Tarkus98]

So, will special hardware be needed to experience this? Or will stereo earphones/ headphones deliver the same experience?

See my post above yours for an answer to your questions

 

[Poepsnor]

Allow me to use my Atmos setup in games and I will be happy. Hopefully this is what that means.

+1. And not something that has to be done by an upmixer like DSU or DTS:X Neural.
Just native Atmos or DTS:X. The X-box one can do it, so the PS5 should easily be capable of that.

 

[Woo-Fu]

The X-box one can do it, so the PS5 should easily be capable of that.

Practically anything can do it. The stumbling block is licensing, not technology.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

Also, Mark Cerny confirmed that PS5 will have a dedicated 3D Audio chip which would convert virtually any stereo headphone into a 3D headphone.

The real question is will it actually make any difference for standard TV stereo speakers? Like you know, from where the vast majority of users hears the games? Because if not, then only a tiny group with 5.1/7.1/Atmos/DTS-X/gaming headsets will be able to actually utilize the new tech, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's limited only to Atmos/DTS-X setups to begin with, which would even further narrow the potential beneficiaries. But then again, I'd expect Sony to make their own dedicated PS5 headset.

Yes, normal TV speakers and normal headsets will bring you the 3D audio experience, without having to buy the more expensive dedicated hardware (where it will shine of course, by Cernys words on the wired interview)

Maybe Sony really knows they can't compete with the raw processing power of the next xbox, and they need some other fancy marketing term to make up for it.

How do you know that this doesn't require a slice of that 'raw processing power' you mentioned, and is instead a factor to have more?

 

[Tarkus98]

Maybe Sony really knows they can't compete with the raw processing power of the next xbox, and they need some other fancy marketing term to make up for it.

Yes, that must be it.

 

[rashbeep]

I'm not expecting much

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

Maybe Sony really knows they can't compete with the raw processing power of the next xbox, and they need some other fancy marketing term to make up for it.

They don't need to when they have the better exclusives

 

[Spukc]

Maybe Sony really knows they can't compete with the raw processing power of the next xbox, and they need some other fancy marketing term to make up for it.

 

[A Most Virtuous Cat]

Thanks, that cleared things up. I have never experienced 3D sound. Sounds like its gonna be amazing.

 

[A Most Virtuous Cat]

See my post above yours for an answer to your questions

Thanks, that cleared things up. I have never experienced 3D sound. Sounds like its gonna be amazing.

 

[rofif]

3d audio? I dunno. I am still searching for better headphone than koss porta pro... (hint - there appears to be no better headphone in the whole world)

 

[Tarkus98]

Thanks, that cleared things up. I have never experienced 3D sound. Sounds like its gonna be amazing.

It really is quite nice, definitely not a gimmick. I’m looking forward to seeing how it will be used on the ps5. I agree, it’s gonna be amazing.

 

[nemiroff]

What year is this??

Anyway, if you haven't heard these 3D binaural audio/videos in a good headset (and Atmos or similar is also needed perhaps?) then your life is not complete:

Crank the sound WAY up, it's absolutely mesmerizing

 

[ManaByte]

It means they're supporting Dolby Atmos and didn't want to pay Dolby for the logo on the presentation slide.

 

[Faust]

Do you need special headphones/speaker to utilize 3D Audio or can any device use it? Curious if my Meze 99 Classics would be fine in using 3D Audio.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Making 3D audio more clear is good and gamers should be excited about it.

 

[Karppuuna]

3D audio try to emulate what you hear in real life, in 2D stereo audio is far from that and you can easily test it, turn you head in a game and the sound cuts from another speaker in you headset.
You don't need special headphones for 3D audio.

 

[vpance]

Would love to get more use out of my Atmos speakers. UHD movies with good audio tracks are so few and far between.

 

[Pimpbaa]

Getting 3D audio with any headphones/headset will be great. Having to buy a shitty pair of headphones just to get surround sound on the ps4 really sucked (unless you wanted to pay a shit load for a astro branded headset).

 

[Reallink]

Do you need special headphones/speaker to utilize 3D Audio or can any device use it? Curious if my Meze 99 Classics would be fine in using 3D Audio.

Any headphones will work. The problem with a headphone implementation though is that everyone has a different HRTF (head related transfer function), so unless there is a calibration step that has you placing test tone positions manually, a one size fits all positioning won't be accurate for everyone as head size/shape, ear placements/structure, etc effect how and where we perceive sound. Despite having iterated on binaural/3D audio for 4 or 5 years, VR still uses a one size fits all solution, so I'm not sure manual calibration of HRTF is even possible from a technical perspective. That said, even if your particular head doesn't fit their idea of the "average", it's still vastly superior to old school stereo and 5.1/7.1 headphones (both faked and multi-driver).

For open air loudspeakers, you technically do need special/additional speakers. Ideally you want physical ceiling mounted speakers to provide the height channels. They also make traditional towers/bookshelves speakers that have an upfiring driver (they also sell addons to place on top of your existing speakers) that bounces sounds off the ceiling. This can reputedly work fairly well with the right room and good placement, but is generally accepted to be less convincing/effective than actual ceiling mounted speakers. Some 2019 and newer receivers have also added a Virtualized Atmos mode that attempts to do it all with processing, simulating it without any ceiling or upfiring speakers at all (no idea how well it works, if at all).