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[Gully State]

Asian people we tried to warn you. Black people have long since realized this was the case, but some of you took the whole model minority thing as a compliment or something

All cultures have people that do what you just described...Don't single out Asians as the only ones that have them...

 

[PdotMichael]

Asian people we tried to warn you. Black people have long since realized this was the case, but some of you took the whole model minority thing as a compliment or something

For whom are you speaking again?

What a cringeworthy bullshit

 

[geestack]

Asian people we tried to warn you. Black people have long since realized this was the case, but some of you took the whole model minority thing as a compliment or something

don't act like others don't do this horseshit either. oppression olympics helps no one.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Depends on the field to be honest.

In something highly specialized (like STEM or IT) it's common for graduates to have weak communication skills. Of course they learn how to communicate with people within their field, but trying to explain highly technical concepts in a way that common everyday people can understand is not easy.

With Asians it's even more difficult because weak communication skills means they won't even be able to speak the native language well.

If you think someone who's gone to college in the US should not have language issues, you're basically admitting you've never taken math or engineering.

It's irrelevant anyway because in math and engineering you actually need to talk to people to grasp whether their communication skills are good to begin with. It's even less valid to assume based off a name. I did engineering, I'm aware of shitty communication skills. But if you wont even interview a section of the talent pool then what is even the point?

 

[AAK]

Back in Ottawa, Canada I had a Somali friend named Sa'ad Hassan. He had a MASc degree in Chemical Engineering and he ended up officially changing his name to Wyatt to get a better chance in job applications.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

WTF is up with these types of posts? Every group has their share of the "good ones" and it's never been exclusive to Asians. Maybe you should think about why you haven't noticed that we've been sitting in the back of the bus and raising hell with you the entire time instead.

Oppression Olympics with a side of victim blaming?

I don't know if you're aware but Chinese people were humiliated and even banned from the US for a time, Japanese were thrown into internment camps, Indians and Filipinos are still the open butt of jokes in popular media, and we're all pretty much conflated with one another regardless of nation of origin. We know. And it's not a competition.

We know. There's a lot of casual Chinese racism flying around online. You even see it regularly on GAF every time there's a China related thread.

There's always some guy who will walk in and say that Chinese people culturally consider human lives cheap, and will run people over with their cars to save insurance money.

That's like saying that the average American's go-to form of stress relief is to go on a mass shooting.

All cultures have people that do what you just described...Don't single out Asians as the only ones that have them...

For whom are you speaking again?

What a cringeworthy bullshit

don't act like others don't do this horseshit either. oppression olympics helps no one.

Hold on hold on, because I feel like a ton of people completely misunderstood what I was saying, and I need to clarify. Asian Americans are seen as "model minorities". Yes, all groups have those among them that feel that they're the "good ones", but I'm saying Asians are basically propped up by whites as being the aspirational minority groups that others should try to emulate. My point was that despite this designation, they're still ultimately grouped and treated the same as other minorities. As second class citizens.

This isn't any oppression Olympics bullshit or casual racism (not sure how that was even remotely implied). This is just an acknowledgement that minorities, regardless of who or what they are, are still treated as second class citizens in the US. That positive stereotypes are still just as damaging, because they're still stereotypes.

Some of you are so quick to jump on people around here.

 

[ActStriker]

Hold on hold on, because I feel like a ton of people completely misunderstood what I was saying, and I need to clarify. Asian Americans are seen as "model minorities". Yes, all groups have those among them that feel that they're the "good ones", but I'm saying Asians are basically propped up by whites as being the aspirational minority groups that others should try to emulate. My point was that despite this designation, they're still ultimately grouped and treated the same as other minorities. As second class citizens.

This isn't any oppression Olympics bullshit or casual racism (not sure how that was even remotely implied). This is just an acknowledgement that minorities, regardless of who or what they are, are still treated as second class citizens in the US. That positive stereotypes are still just as damaging, because they're still stereotypes.

Some of you are so quick to jump on people around here.

Don't you think Asian Americans realize this already?

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Don't you think Asian Americans realize this already?

Yeah. I thought it was clear I was being tongue in cheek. No shit Asians are well aware of the racism they face.

But before this goes on, sorry if I offended anyone or my comment was taken as condescension or anything like that

 

[sixteen-bit]

This is so shitty

 

[HisImperialMajesty]

Asian people we tried to warn you. Black people have long since realized this was the case, but some of you took the whole model minority thing as a compliment or something

Hold on hold on, because I feel like a ton of people completely misunderstood what I was saying, and I need to clarify. Asian Americans are seen as "model minorities". Yes, all groups have those among them that feel that they're the "good ones", but I'm saying Asians are basically propped up by whites as being the aspirational minority groups that others should try to emulate. My point was that despite this designation, they're still ultimately grouped and treated the same as other minorities. As second class citizens.

This isn't any oppression Olympics bullshit or casual racism (not sure how that was even remotely implied). This is just an acknowledgement that minorities, regardless of who or what they are, are still treated as second class citizens in the US. That positive stereotypes are still just as damaging, because they're still stereotypes.

Some of you are so quick to jump on people around here.

Your first post was unnecessarily inflammatory. Asian people are well aware that the model minority myth is bullshit. Just read Eddie Huang or any high profile Asian writer/blogger and you'll know that we're sick and tired of that shit and we're sick and tired of all the social, structural, casual and straight up racism that American society dishes to us as well. I think that this article revealed to you, not to Asian people, that Asians experience racism just like any other minority group in America.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Your first post was unnecessarily inflammatory. Asian people are well aware that the model minority myth is bullshit. Just read Eddie Huang or any high profile Asian writer/blogger and you'll know that we're sick and tired of that shit and we're sick and tired of all the social, structural, casual and straight up racism that American society dishes to us as well. I think that this article revealed to you, not to Asian people, that Asians experience racism just like any other minority group in America.

You can look at my post history. I was well aware of it. I'm still scratching my head at how my post came off as inflammatory of even combative, but whatever. If people took it that way, who am I to say they're wrong to. Clearly I have an odd sense of humor

 

[diaspora]

You can look at my post history. I was well aware of it. I'm still scratching my head at how my post came off as inflammatory of even combative, but whatever. If people took it that way, who am I to say they're wrong to. Clearly I have an odd sense of humor

The phrase "we tried to warn you" implies they didn't already know- after all what good is a warning if they know already? The implication that east and south asians aren't aware of how they face racial issues is what's pissing people off specifically. This inference was made regardless of whether or not actually making it was your intention.

 

[Akuun]

You can look at my post history. I was well aware of it. I'm still scratching my head at how my post came off as inflammatory of even combative, but whatever. If people took it that way, who am I to say they're wrong to. Clearly I have an odd sense of humor

Asian people we tried to warn you.

Implies that Asians aren't aware of racism against them.

Black people have long since realized this was the case, but some of you took the whole model minority thing as a compliment or something

Again, implies that Asians either aren't aware that people are racist against them.

Also implies that Asians consider the "model minority" thing as a compliment when it's obviously not.

 

[HisImperialMajesty]

You can look at my post history. I was well aware of it. I'm still scratching my head at how my post came off as inflammatory of even combative, but whatever. If people took it that way, who am I to say they're wrong to. Clearly I have an odd sense of humor

No worries man. In the end, we're all on the same side. Even though the struggles we face day to day might be different, we're all struggling against the same thing, which is racism.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Implies that Asians aren't aware of racism against them.


Again, implies that Asians either aren't aware that people are racist against them.

Also implies that Asians consider the "model minority" thing as a compliment when it's obviously not.

Hence the some. Not "a lot", not "most", not "many", not any other qualifier that signifies a significant portion. But like I said, if it was taken the wrong way, my bad

 

[Dusk Soldier]

It's irrelevant anyway because in math and engineering you actually need to talk to people to grasp whether their communication skills are good to begin with. It's even less valid to assume based off a name. I did engineering, I'm aware of shitty communication skills. But if you wont even interview a section of the talent pool then what is even the point?

Well. It's not always practical to interview every person who applies. You have an entry level position open up, but you get fifty applicants, you're not going to interview every single applicant to make a decision.

The skill set required to do the job has an impact too. You may interview ten applicants and find that they should all be able to do the job reasonably well. How do you pick who to hire then?

If an employer is over saturated with applicants. They can and do get quite arbitrary about who they decided to call in for an interview.

 

[commedieu]

No worries man. In the end, we're all on the same side. Even though the struggles we face day to day might be different, we're all struggling against the same thing, which is racism.

That's my feeling. We've all got the power. But the sides need to unite.

 

[Window]

Well. It's not always practical to interview every person who applies. You have an entry level position open up, but you get fifty applicants, you're not going to interview every single applicant to make a decision.

The skill set required to do the job has an impact too. You may interview ten applicants and find that they should all be able to do the job reasonably well. How do you pick who to hire then?

If an employer is over saturated with applicants. They can and do get quite arbitrary about who they decided to call in for an interview.

Prejudice should not be excused under the guise of an arbitrary criteria. That may certainly be the line of thinking, a convenient way to trim the set of interviewees but it's not acceptable.

 

[Mupod]

Well. It's not always practical to interview every person who applies. You have an entry level position open up, but you get fifty applicants, you're not going to interview every single applicant to make a decision.

The skill set required to do the job has an impact too. You may interview ten applicants and find that they should all be able to do the job reasonably well. How do you pick who to hire then?

If an employer is over saturated with applicants. They can and do get quite arbitrary about who they decided to call in for an interview.

While going through some stuff related to new hires at my company a while back, I noticed there was a period of time a few years ago where more than half of the people hired had names starting with A. It lined up with a certain person being in charge of recruiting. I don't want to jump to conclusions but my sad/hilarious theory is they were just calling up the first names alphabetically.

 

[The Quiet Man]

I am a 1st-generation immigrant with an Chinese first and last name. I have a near-perfect TOEFL score, 770 in the verbal SAT, 90%+ percentile in the GRE for the verbal and analytical writing sections. I have published 2 papers in academic journals and have given talks at conferences.

I speak English very fluently with barely the hint of a Chinese accent - most people who have heard my voice without seeing my face (e.g. while playing online games) think I'm German, go figure.

But I know that here in the U.S., people may read my name and immediately assume I'm not proficient at English. I'm sure I've lost work because of this. For me, it's a real phenomenon, and it's pretty shitty.

 

[Christhor]

Even in Asian countries? That's pretty fucked up.

 

[geestack]

You can look at my post history. I was well aware of it. I'm still scratching my head at how my post came off as inflammatory of even combative, but whatever. If people took it that way, who am I to say they're wrong to. Clearly I have an odd sense of humor

didn't mean to pile on, my fault. i think we're all (all minorities that is) just tired of the bullshit.

(in trent reznor voice) we're in this together

 

[Jeels]

So why does the model minority still lead to fewer interviews? Shouldn't people be jumping for joy to hire competent east and south asians?

 

[Dusk Soldier]

Prejudice should not be excused under the guise of an arbitrary criteria. That may certainly be the line of thinking, a convenient way to trim the set of interviewees but it's not acceptable.

There isn't a "fair" way to trim the list of interviewees. You're being naive.

 

[John Rabbit]

So why does the model minority still lead to fewer interviews? Shouldn't people be jumping for joy to hire competent east and south asians?

I wonder how it breaks down across specific regionalities: Chinese vs Pakistani vs Indian.

I'd be willing to bet that "Katsumoto" and "Yang" gets called more than "Balachandran" or "Bhatia".

 

[UnemployedVillain]

All cultures have people that do what you just described...Don't single out Asians as the only ones that have them...

Sorry, I just wanted to address this. Sorry to the OP for the 1 page derailment. I singled out Asians because:

1. This thread is about Asian last names
2. "Model minority" doesn't refer to those within a minority group who believe themselves to be exceptional or the good ones. It refers to minority groups that are propped up as being more successful than others and often the targets of "positive" stereotypes (despite ultimately being a negative thing as they're stereotypes)

Yeah, in other countries the model minority differs depending on their demographic makeup, but in Canada, where the study conducted, Asians are that group

 

[AbortedWalrusFetus]

Wow. Now I feel bad. I encouraged my wife to keep using her maiden name professionally because she works in a lot of non-profits, and they usually make a huge effort for diverse hires, so I figured it would help her out. I should show her this and see if she wants to use her married name professionally now.

 

[Gully State]

Sorry, I just wanted to address this. Sorry to the OP for the 1 page derailment. I singled out Asians because:

1. This thread is about Asian last names
2. "Model minority" doesn't refer to those within a minority group who believe themselves to be exceptional or the good ones. It refers to minority groups that are propped up as being more successful than others and often the targets of "positive" stereotypes (despite ultimately being a negative thing as they're stereotypes)

Yeah, in other countries the model minority differs depending on their demographic makeup, but in Canada, where the study conducted, Asians are that group

I know what model minority means.. you shouldn't have said "Asians we warned ya'll" implying we're all a bunch of oblivious Uncle Chans.. my point is every group has its "model" individuals... but somehow with Asians, this makes us as a collective the model minority. I know you clarified but your original post was not the right choice of words.

 

[SwipeLeftHoney]

Wow. Now I feel bad. I encouraged my wife to keep using her maiden name professionally because she works in a lot of non-profits, and they usually make a huge effort for diverse hires, so I figured it would help her out. I should show her this and see if she wants to use her married name professionally now.

This is how I feel right now...

 

[dohdough]

Wow. Now I feel bad. I encouraged my wife to keep using her maiden name professionally because she works in a lot of non-profits, and they usually make a huge effort for diverse hires, so I figured it would help her out. I should show her this and see if she wants to use her married name professionally now.

Yeah, uhh...this type of post is very problematic and not the first one in the thread. I don't see why these posts are necessary other than humble-bragging about how (white) men can leverage their privilege for their Asian spouses by the use of non-Asian names. There's a lot more to unpack here, but in the end, it's all pretty distasteful and not at all helpful.

 

[DarthMasta]

I don't see how this is all that unexpected?

I mean, my name is unpronounceable by English speakers, I'd expect that to put me at a disadvantage when trying to find work in the US, even being a white European. OTOH, a John Smith would have issues getting a job on the company I work for (not in an English speaking country).

Anything that might get interpreted as "This person doesn't fit the culture" will probably carry a penalty, unfair as it might be...

 

[Poor GRIMES]

Wow. Now I feel bad. I encouraged my wife to keep using her maiden name professionally because she works in a lot of non-profits, and they usually make a huge effort for diverse hires, so I figured it would help her out. I should show her this and see if she wants to use her married name professionally now.

Don't show her the article to convince her otherwise... it comes off as nasty.

 

[geestack]

I don't see how this is all that unexpected?

I mean, my name is unpronounceable by English speakers, I'd expect that to put me at a disadvantage when trying to find work in the US, even being a white European. OTOH, a John Smith would have issues getting a job on the company I work for (not in an English speaking country).

Anything that might get interpreted as "This person doesn't fit the culture" will probably carry a penalty, unfair as it might be...

you realize asian americans are american and asian canadians are canadian so culturally there are zero differences between them and a white dude named john smith right

because if you don't, i don't know what to tell you

 

[UnemployedVillain]

I don't see how this is all that unexpected?

I mean, my name is unpronounceable by English speakers, I'd expect that to put me at a disadvantage when trying to find work in the US, even being a white European. OTOH, a John Smith would have issues getting a job on the company I work for (not in an English speaking country).

Anything that might get interpreted as "This person doesn't fit the culture" will probably carry a penalty, unfair as it might be...

The point is you can't determine a person's cultural background solely from their last name. An Asian immigrant can have the same last name as one who's family has been in the US or Canada for generations and have significantly different backgrounds. And even if that wasn't the case, using that as a barometer for their qualifications, even when taking culture fit into consideration (which is more with the office/workplace culture not a specific country's culture) is a dumb thing to try and judge based on just a name

 

[Vitten]

With an Arabian last name the differences are even bigger, at least in Europe.

 

[DarthMasta]

you realize asian americans are american and asian canadians are canadian so culturally there are zero differences between them and a white dude named john smith right

because if you don't, i don't know what to tell you

Tell that to American and Canadian employers, since they appear to have a different view on the subject, not me...

 

[Window]

There isn't a "fair" way to trim the list of interviewees. You're being naive.

I understand biases exist. Not all biases are conscious but in this case where a study has identified a systematic racial bias I'm suggesting that this is one bias that recruiters should actively be aware of and eliminate in their selection process. There maybe no fair set of biases but that doesn't mean they are all equal in their harm.

 

[HisImperialMajesty]

Well. It's not always practical to interview every person who applies. You have an entry level position open up, but you get fifty applicants, you're not going to interview every single applicant to make a decision.

The skill set required to do the job has an impact too. You may interview ten applicants and find that they should all be able to do the job reasonably well. How do you pick who to hire then?

If an employer is over saturated with applicants. They can and do get quite arbitrary about who they decided to call in for an interview.

What's your point here? I don't think race is "arbitrary" at all. If people with Asian names are being selected against, then that's straight up racism, not something "arbitrary" and subject to the whims of an employer.

 

[Gully State]

Well. It's not always practical to interview every person who applies. You have an entry level position open up, but you get fifty applicants, you're not going to interview every single applicant to make a decision.

The skill set required to do the job has an impact too. You may interview ten applicants and find that they should all be able to do the job reasonably well. How do you pick who to hire then?

If an employer is over saturated with applicants. They can and do get quite arbitrary about who they decided to call in for an interview.

Of course you're not going to interview all 50 but you're certainly not going to eliminate a candidate because of a last name is something ethnic based on preconceived racial bias.. there's plenty of things in a resume that's fair game. Stuff you can easily pick out in 10-15 min or less that have nothing to do with race or sex or religion or whatever discriminatory factor that has nothing to do with the job.... speaking of which, aren't there actual discriminatory laws being violated by practicing this?

 

[Pancake Mix]

Italian Americans, or Polish Americans, or German Americans, etc. all have the advantage of looking virtually identical to Anglo-Americans. The children and grandchildren of Italian Americans, or Polish Americans, or German Americans, etc. look no different from the children and grandchildren of Anglo-Americans.

Huh, what? European ethnic groups don't look remotely the same as each other either.

I think you've fallen into the cross-race effect my friend.

The first research on the cross-race effect was published in 1914.[4] It stated that humans tend to perceive people of other races than themselves to all look alike. All else being equal, individuals of a given race are distinguishable from each other in proportion to their familiarity or contact with the race as a whole. Thus, to the uninitiated Caucasian, all East Asian people look alike, while to East Asian people, all Caucasian people look alike. This does not hold true when people of different races familiarize themselves with races different from their own.

You've fallen for this very strongly, particularly with the comparison of Italians and other groups.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Well. It's not always practical to interview every person who applies. You have an entry level position open up, but you get fifty applicants, you're not going to interview every single applicant to make a decision.

Well duh. Whatchu trying to say?

The skill set required to do the job has an impact too. You may interview ten applicants and find that they should all be able to do the job reasonably well. How do you pick who to hire then?

Other factors come into play. Pay expectations, experience, aspirations, fit. If you are in HR and limited your interviews to 10 and you legit have no pull between the 10 you did a shit jobo interviewing them

If an employer is over saturated with applicants. They can and do get quite arbitrary about who they decided to call in for an interview.

Cutting based in names is not arbitrary. It's racist. Call it what it is. Hiring can get racist.

Tell that to American and Canadian employers, since they appear to have a different view on the subject, not me...

Canada and the US are not nearly as racially homogeneous as Asia and many European countries. When 25-30% of your country is non white (of many different races too) you can't fucking come out here and defend institutional racism. This isn't someone with an African last name in Japan. It's Asians in North America. Stop this bullshit defense.

 

[AbortedWalrusFetus]

Yeah, uhh...this type of post is very problematic and not the first one in the thread. I don't see why these posts are necessary other than humble-bragging about how (white) men can leverage their privilege for their Asian spouses by the use of non-Asian names. There's a lot more to unpack here, but in the end, it's all pretty distasteful and not at all helpful.

I honestly have no clue what you are driving at here. How am I leveraging MY privilege by being married to someone? If anything, since it's her choice, she's leveraging it because she's the agent acting here. I'm not controlling her.

Don't show her the article to convince her otherwise... it comes off as nasty.

My wife is an adult. She knows how to process information and make decisions for herself. It's not like I demanded her to use a specific name. She asked my advice and I gave it. Turned out it was poor advice, and armed with new knowledge she may decide to change her decision.

 

[dohdough]

I honestly have no clue what you are driving at here. How am I leveraging MY privilege by being married to someone? If anything, since it's her choice, she's leveraging it because she's the agent acting here. I'm not controlling her.

My wife is an adult. She knows how to process information and make decisions for herself. It's not like I demanded her to use a specific name. She asked my advice and I gave it. Turned out it was poor advice, and armed with new knowledge she may decide to change her decision.

The privilege is yours to give, not for her to take. If it was the reverse, we wouldn't have this issue of being less desirable for having Asian names nor would privilege ever be a Thing.

As a father of two Asian daughters, I would hope that I would raise them with the fortitude to be proud of their heritage and never hide where they come from no matter the adversity they face because of her name. They should never be ashamed to be Asian and never compromise themselves to people that think less of them. The fact that you don't get this demonstrates that you have no clue what it's like to be treated like a perpetual foreigner in the country you were born in. Not to mention that in many Asian cultures, the wife doesn't take the name of the husband.

Yeah, it may just be a name to you and no big deal, but people have died because of racism against having names like mine and I will ALWAYS wear it with pride. I have no idea why people think that the solution to discrimination is to reinforce it by compromising yourself to it.

Y'alls do y'alls, but your proposition is straight up offensive to me on multiple levels.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

That's my feeling. We've all got the power. But the sides need to unite.

United minorities are the biggest threat to the status quo in this country and the entire world, which is why they've been trying (and succeeding) to keep us at each other's throats. Divide and conquer is real.

If we ever manage to come together on a massive scale, that's when the change will come. The problem is I don't see it happening.

 

[Gully State]

United minorities are the biggest threat to the status quo in this country and the entire world, which is why they've been trying (and succeeding) to keep us at each other's throats. Divide and conquer is real.

If we ever manage to come together on a massive scale, that's when the change will come. The problem is I don't see it happening.

I'd include poor people of all nationalities and ethnicities. Feel like a race war is incited to take attention away from the top 1% continually hoarding resources... 5 years ago we were talking about occupy wallstreet and close to coming to a class war....now all of a sudden we have a wave of nationalism pitting people of different ethnicities against one another (cop shooting blacks, white supremacy etc...) you conveniently don't really hear much talk about haves vs have nots anymore.

 

[entremet]

WTF is up with these types of posts? Every group has their share of the "good ones" and it's never been exclusive to Asians. Maybe you should think about why you haven't noticed that we've been sitting in the back of the bus and raising hell with you the entire time instead.

Oh I know. It was tongue and cheek. No need to be so serious. Jeez.

 

[DarthMasta]

Canada and the US are not nearly as racially homogeneous as Asia and many European countries. When 25-30% of your country is non white (of many different races too) you can't fucking come out here and defend institutional racism. This isn't someone with an African last name in Japan. It's Asians in North America. Stop this bullshit defense.

I'm not defending, I'm just stating "No duh!".

Many immigrants to the US have changed their names. Drumpf turns to Trump. Pereira to Perry. That sort of thing. Of course these people had the advantage of being white, so, nobody questions...

It is what it is, what it always has been. Alas, there's a price to pay for trying to hold on to what the mainstream thinks of as the other...

 

[nel e nel]

Freakonomics looked at this twelve years ago. IIRC, black names get a lot less too.

This is a well documented phenomenon across ethnicities for quite some time now. Same thing happens to women as well.

 

[nel e nel]

There really needs to be a shift in hiring processes. Enough holes have been poked in the usual resume and interview system. Not that I know a good alternative.

Remove names, addresses and educational institutions from resumes during the initial screening process.

 

[Zoe]

Remove names, addresses and educational institutions from resumes during the initial screening process.

Why educational institutions?