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As Enthusiasts, are we too Negative? Or is it Justified?

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
Jul 13, 2020
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As a gaming enthusiast forum, alongside most of the other internet gaming communities, do you think the general atmosphere and vibe is unjustifiably negative, or do you feel it comes with the territory of being more informed or serious about the hobby than casuals?

I'll use one of my strengths, Final Fantasy, as an example. It seems like after FFX, every entry has initially been hated by the vocal majority of people who are invested enough in gaming to post online about it. I make this distinction, because these games in general sell gangbusters, which I surmise is because of the casual crowd, the parents looking for holiday gifts, the teens who think a game looks cool based on the box art, etc, etc. It seems to take a couple of years for the niche these newer games capture to become organized enough to make any kind of notable presence in online communities.

Same can be said for lots of newer entries in old/storied franchises. It seems like the games that get more widely accepted are the ones that have either a. Never been done before, or b. Hit on some kind of nostalgia that resonates with people. I think this is a large part of the reason developers have started trending toward remakes/remasters.

So, I ask (with no real horse in the race, either way) if gaming communities/this community is defaulting to a negative stance on too many issues. Have we become so enamored with the product that we fail to enjoy it, that the magic is gone? Or are we holding developers up to a standard in their craft? If we were of the same level of intelligence and experience, set back 20 years, would we drilling Ocarina of Time and Final Fantasy VII as lackluster entries? I think it's an interesting enough conversation to have.
 

bender

Candy Corn Aficionado
Apr 12, 2010
13,018
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Meat bags find it easy to take the time to complain but are way too busy to ever compliment. Human nature is a funny thing and it's why you all deserve to die.

 
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BigBooper

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Feb 28, 2018
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It's easier to be negative I think. You're more vulnerable when you're positive.

If you have a negative opinion, the best possible outcome is someone wins you over and you end up changing your mind and liking something that you didn't like before. The worst possible outcome is ??? everyone disagrees maybe. Maybe they insult you.

If you have a positive opinion, the best outcome would be you convince someone else to like it. The worst outcome would be that they make you dislike something that you originally loved. It's bigger stakes.

Also, it's really easy to point out a fault in a game. You can do it with a sentence or two. It's a bit more work to make a good praise topic. You really want to have screenshots and examples to portray it in the best light.
 

azertydu91

Hard to Kill
Sep 11, 2013
2,509
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France
There was a quote from a french streamers that was talking about movies but I think it does apply to video games too.
"there are people that like movies and there are people that like movies that they like", I'm not sure that it transfers quite well in english but I think that's were the main difference might be.
The rest of the negativity might come from being disillusioned from this industry mixed with consoles/pc war.Forgetting that there are still gems that don't take customer as a milking cow and that you can like a console/pc without hating the others.
And I'll go even further you can criticize without hating but sometimes it feels that we get too emotionnal about the things that we like.
You are not what you like some people have a different opinion even if some people hate what you like it is not an insult toward you.
But that's only what I believe to be a more rational thought, it is in fact way more entertainning when people react more emotionnaly.I think most of us here can remember at least one meltdown that they found either sad funny or petty.
I think there was a study about how emotionnal post gather way more responses than rationnal ones.And in that study a simple topic with false emotionnal post rallied love and hate and exploded the number of answers compared to a more rationnal even if more controversial topic.
 

Trogdor1123

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Mar 2, 2012
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I think most people just get tired of being burned and as an enthusiast are more likely to see long term implications of things.

Also were online where it is hard to see what is going on with what people really think.
 
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Astral Dog

Member
Mar 6, 2013
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Of course, know it all gamers can be jerks on the internet and spread negativity about their own hobby, so much that any sane person would stay away. The knowledge they babble about is sometimes not worth it and totally wrong, since they are still fans on the internet with no real connection to a company or their business/development model, and thats before we talk about our ResetERA buddies

However there is also a good, positive side to a game fanbase, you just have to be a little careful to find it 🤭
 

Graciaus

Member
Nov 17, 2014
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If you don't complain no one will know. Sales are really all that matters in the end. SE sees a series that keeps growing but losing the core fanbase.

Final Fantasy started going downhill at 10 not after it. 10 brings in all the changes that would one day give us 13. 12 was ahead of its time and people weren't ready for the change. Current day it plays great but the story is the real issue. 15 is an abomination.
 
Nov 13, 2010
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Sometimes it does get a bit much with the negativity here specifically with threads littered with console warring (some just live to troll it seems) and general vileness to each other and that's when I step away and move on to other threads/topics.

I try not to get deep into it like some folks recommend but it still kinda sucks when it seems like everyone is dumping on games that I enjoyed for the most part. I just take that as those people being vocal and dog-piling.

Games like new AC's, WoW, Divisions, etc. most of the more popular games. I get some of the complaints but sometimes it's just too much.

As a hobby I've had for nearly 40 years, I've just grown accustomed to enthusiasts bitching about everything and maybe that's normal. What do I know? But I've just learned not to engage and just go play things I like.

FWIW I enjoy most of the new Final Fantasies as well, though I didn't finish a few of them.
 
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JeloSWE

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Mar 23, 2015
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This is just like any kind of comment section. You'll mostly see the extreme ends on the bell curve. Most people in the middle doesn't find enough problems to neither complain or praise but of those that do, my gut feeling is that there is more complaints unless the game is really good or at least have found a solid footing with a group of devote fans, then you get a kind or rabid cult following.
 

Melfice7

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Jul 24, 2007
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I feel most of the complains is because we see the squandered potential on our favourite games and see execs making seemingly obvious bad decisions, that while might make sense in a financial way, its not necessarily the best for product's quality

Of course theres also alot of overly nitpicking about silly stuff and plain old trolling
 
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I think there’s a risk of becoming jaded due to overexposure. Much easier to feel the “magic” of gaming when you’re newly introduced and aren’t concerned with technical minutiae.

Just my take.
 
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Woggleman

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Some gamers are like that hipster that works in a record shop who hates everything except his favorite hipster band.
 

ClanOfNone

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Nov 24, 2018
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My old man bought home an Intellivision in 1983 and I'm just as enthusiastic now as I was so long ago.
How could I possibly be jaded when there are more games available now than ever before? Emulation and retro consoles keep the classics alive and I still get hyped for the big tentpole releases as well. There is an ocean of content with every genre possibly imaginable and more popping up all the time.
 
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Jaybe

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Jul 14, 2018
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Sometimes I’ll check out patientgamers to pick out a missed geand nearly every time most posts are bashing 10 year old games.

Gaming has way more genres and tastes than ever and there is typically already a top tier established in each that every game gets compared to. Even if a game is fantastic in most respects, it can always be compared against others where it fails. There will be no perfect game where it beats all other games for everyone. Developers only have fixed resources and time to make and shop a product and make choices.

I do think negativity towards truly anti-consumer practices are fair and need expressed.
 
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marquimvfs

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Have we become so enamored with the product that we fail to enjoy it, that the magic is gone? Or are we holding developers up to a standard in their craft? If we were of the same level of intelligence and experience, set back 20 years, would we drilling Ocarina of Time and Final Fantasy VII as lackluster entries?
I think that this is a normal reaction about every product we consume. I see people bashing reasonable good new cars everyday and exalting old tech as the new simply worth nothing in comparison. The same parallel could be traced about a variety of other things and I think everyone is supposed to be like this, we simply loose passion for things once we begin to "upgrade" and see that the new things don't bring us the same joy we used to have.
 

Swoopsail

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Apr 18, 2021
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Justified. I'm old enough to remember the relative quality and impact of games in the past, but far from the bitterness and out of touch nature that being very old can bring. Even as a small child I could hear the effort put into a Rachmaninoff Prelude over some fifty shades of grey book. I am 100% confident that larger corporatization and fear of risk is plaguing our artistic might right now.

Some things you just know.
 

avalonzero

Member
Jul 28, 2017
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It's honestly pretty justified. This is an industry that over-promises and under-delivers on a regular basis. This on top of a constant barrage of shady tactics meant to nickel and dime people out of even more money after their initial purchase. For example sports games, it doesn't even feel like anyone is trying to make the best game or the funnest game anymore, it's how can we tune this thing to frustrate and get people to spend more money. This industry has gotten pretty predatory so I'm all for people speaking out when they don't feel like they are getting proper value out of their purchase, even if it seems to fall on deaf ears by the people who matter.
 
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BaneIsPain

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Sep 1, 2019
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A bit of both but I think the most important thing is find what you enjoy.
You could listen/read people thought but what matters is your own opinion.
 

Kamina

Golden Boy
Jun 2, 2013
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I wouldn’t say too negative generally, however, i see a trend of some people feeling the need to invade OT threads of games just to state that they dislike said game only to disappear right after.
Sure, it is their opinion, but why would anyone go out of thier way to enter a Harry Potter fanclub for example just to say „Chamber of Secrets sucks“?
 
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dorkimoe

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Aug 19, 2007
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people just need to accept and learn that we are consumers and game companies exist to take our money and nothing else
 
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Saber

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Jan 30, 2019
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Is something a person should already know. The reason you have for complaining is up to you.

A person has their right to complain if he/she feels robbed or fooled. If by complaining you mean negativity, then you should first understand the reason behind it.
 
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EDMIX

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Apr 5, 2018
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As a gaming enthusiast forum, alongside most of the other internet gaming communities, do you think the general atmosphere and vibe is unjustifiably negative, or do you feel it comes with the territory of being more informed or serious about the hobby than casuals?

I'll use one of my strengths, Final Fantasy, as an example. It seems like after FFX, every entry has initially been hated by the vocal majority of people who are invested enough in gaming to post online about it. I make this distinction, because these games in general sell gangbusters, which I surmise is because of the casual crowd, the parents looking for holiday gifts, the teens who think a game looks cool based on the box art, etc, etc. It seems to take a couple of years for the niche these newer games capture to become organized enough to make any kind of notable presence in online communities.

Same can be said for lots of newer entries in old/storied franchises. It seems like the games that get more widely accepted are the ones that have either a. Never been done before, or b. Hit on some kind of nostalgia that resonates with people. I think this is a large part of the reason developers have started trending toward remakes/remasters.

So, I ask (with no real horse in the race, either way) if gaming communities/this community is defaulting to a negative stance on too many issues. Have we become so enamored with the product that we fail to enjoy it, that the magic is gone? Or are we holding developers up to a standard in their craft? If we were of the same level of intelligence and experience, set back 20 years, would we drilling Ocarina of Time and Final Fantasy VII as lackluster entries? I think it's an interesting enough conversation to have.


The negative and overreactions by the community is so extreme I don't really know if I could say any of it is really justified, the gaming community unfortunately is probably one of the most entitled communities I've ever seen in my life.

Where talking about a community's so extreme someone's shirt being tucked in is the reason why they don't buy a game only to have the same people who laughed at something dumb like that decide whether or not they buy a game based on someone's hair color or chin size....

The extremists religious zealot community in regards to any particular franchise in my opinion are just as worse even what you're saying regarding Final Fantasy X I feel as laughable as you even think that after that game they've been hated by some vocal majority in reality final fantasy 10 was one of the games they hated as well the same with even Final Fantasy 7 as your questioning would we be drilling something like that whose to say that community doesn't already?

I've heard everything as wild as everything after final fantasy 6 is complete garbage and not really the "true" final fantasy but everyone after final fantasy 5 is really trash and then only the real final fantasies are the first three lol

So I find it funny that the biggest haters who attack those franchises also happen walk around pretending they're the biggest experts of those franchises in the first place and only they alone know the true meaning behind "their" franchise and not the actual people who made the game apparently lol

So yes, I believe lots of enthusiasts are extremely negative, I don't even believe they should ever be listened to or consulted with in regards to playing any game because you're talking about a community using their logic is going to tell you to just play one out of twelve games or something as if they magically know what the fuck you're going to like or not like.

It's why even with specific games that I personally dislike I at least remind the people who I'm recommending to series to that they should probably play it to form their own opinion because just because I hate the story in Final Fantasy 5 doesn't mean someone else will not like it and also doesn't mean that if I hate the story and FF15 that I should not recommend it because how do I know someone else won't play it and love it. So I try to keep my criticisms realistic and I separate even my personal views from recommendations because I know not of how someone will react to some of those games, but sadly enough extremists don't think like this they think they alone know the true series or franchise and they alone can tell you what your supposed to like regarding it lol

They'll take 1 feature or even comment and basically keep using that 1 feature or comment to disregard the years of work in the game. I don't know if such a thing can truly be taken seriously within the community.
 

BadBurger

Gold Member
Nov 6, 2019
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IMO, the more a person invests and has interests in a hobby, the more compassionate about it they become. This leads to circumstances of being either overly critical or too forgiving of something's faults. You'll see the same on every kind of enthusiast community.

Just be happy we're not all book snobs. Sometimes I find Goodreads and certain subreddits insufferable.
 

Represent.

Member
Jun 22, 2010
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Honestly, both.

We are too negative, but the medium needs to advance in a whole lot of ways. Its stale. Needs more groundbreaking games and creativity.
 

Outlier

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Nov 9, 2020
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When you have it so good, any minor improvement feels like diminishing returns.

First world problems.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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Northeastmonk

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Mar 18, 2013
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Not all games make for a great experience. Sometimes new or old games can’t give off the same awe and wonder you experienced maybe a week ago or maybe even a day? It’s not always about being a kid again and trying to relive that moment. I’ve had better times playing games as an adult than I had as a kid. I have had days where the classic game or the new AAA just isn’t doing it for me. I had an amazing time with a game a couple days ago, but the game I thought was going to be the next best thing doesn’t do it for me. It can sometimes be the biggest pain in the ass. You’re either constantly celebrating or you’re kinda down because a game sucks.

It’s a gamble sometimes because you come to expect that a particular game will deliver and maybe 70-80% of the time it does. You still have that 20-30% chance of it being terrible. Why feel blamed for trusting that instinct, when what you saw in a video game might be something you find enjoyable. I think the gaming industry can be a real trash heap at times. Don’t get me wrong I love games, but I want to be honest for a second. All the games that come out have an instant fan base. It’s the people who wait for a numbered score versus the people who truly want a game to be good. Those two don’t or never will play well with one another. The next best game is the next game where the clique of the industry can’t stop talking about it. It breeds it’s own hate culture for having so many different opinions and everyone exposes the negative because they feel cheated out of their money if they had to buy the game. It’s a material item and the industry wants to make more money every day. They’re exposing fans to whatever they think will be the next big hit. You can chop it up anyway you want, but it breeds it’s own negativity by having games be the next best coming attraction for that medium.
 

Fredrik

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Jun 27, 2005
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My old man bought home an Intellivision in 1983 and I'm just as enthusiastic now as I was so long ago.
How could I possibly be jaded when there are more games available now than ever before? Emulation and retro consoles keep the classics alive and I still get hyped for the big tentpole releases as well. There is an ocean of content with every genre possibly imaginable and more popping up all the time.
Yeah I try to focus on the positivity as well, started gaming in the early 80s and haven’t lost the interest yet, it’s an awesome hobby 👌
 
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Thabass

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Jun 9, 2008
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Collectively, yes. Many people are video game enthusiasts and their perception of what they good is best is always going to be rife with controversy. So, no matter how much you love the hobby, you're bound to piss someone off with your opinion on something. In the same token, sometimes we expect too much and that comes off insanely negative.

The worst of it, however, is when something is announced and people IMMEDIATELY pounce on the idea without putting much thought into it or giving things a try. Those are the people that piss even me off.

I always employ a wait-and-see stance on almost everything and I take things at face value until I can try them for myself.

One example is the Nintendo Switch N64 emulator that people are dogging on. Most people made it seem like the emulator has a lot of issues and while it's true it does have some issues, things like the input lag are overly exaggerated to me. I felt like the inputs are fine on most controllers I have used with it.

People also need to stop thinking they know the business and think they know what's best for it. You're like wrestling marks who think they know the business and love to fantasy book, but until you have a real backing that you can make money doing it, then your opinions don't mean much.
 

Chiggs

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Jan 20, 2005
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I think about a third of the people on this forum are deeply unhappy, and their decision to place all their hopes and dreams on interactive entertainment is as sad as it is hilarious. Especially when deep down inside, they know it won’t satisfy them, just like that third box of Teddy Grahams they reach for, while binging Castlevania on Netflix, won’t either.

No, enjoying games from an industry that has NEVER BEEN BETTER is for normal people. And many enthusiasts are simply not normal people. Most of the time, the only thing they’re really enthusiastic about is letting everyone know just how little they think of something…especially if it’s popular/commercially viable.

For my money, there’s nothing more pathetic and overplayed in the gaming world as angry enthusiasts, who rage flaccidly against DLC or some greedy gaming company—or something they vaguely refer to as ewwwwww McDonald’s game design (even though McDonald’s is probably a staple of their hedon-slob diet). And yet, you see it all the time, even though it’s such a goddamn cliche. In fact, it’s nearly impossible to miss, because it’s truly such a nauseating blend of entitlement & moralizing that’s strangely hard NOT to watch, largely because it’s so much fun to envision that person’s daily grind outside of this forum, which almost assuredly begins with a job they hate, then culminates with a nightcap of Doritos and Dew, before some tender dry-humping with their most cherished waifu body-pillow brings the day to a close.

Then comes the silence, the darkness, and the tears.
 
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Kagey K

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Dec 18, 2013
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I try to overlook all the negative bullshit, and look for positives.

Sometimes the gaming community screams loudly about shit that isn't really a big deal.

Combine that with personal biases against games, because they aren't on your system of choice and it's easy to see who is "concerned" and who is genuinely concerned.

I feel like Gafs new hardline approach to trolling, and baiting has helped eliminate some of the Toxicity around new games, and let them breathe so people can get honest opinions from other people that have actually played them.

It's been a nice change.
 

Keihart

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Jun 23, 2013
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I think the word is Jaded, enthusiasts are always somewhat jaded...on any hobby, i think.
 
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Tschumi

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As a collective, humans act with the mental age of children, which is why we can't make serious changes like tackling pollution etc, why those of us with less integrity can be warped into political extremists, and negativity is easier and more emotionally satisfying than positivity (Facebook count on this) so yeah when faced with a complex situation we default to childish shitposting because, collectively, we think that's the most valid course.. when actually it's just the easiest
 
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As a gaming enthusiast forum, alongside most of the other internet gaming communities, do you think the general atmosphere and vibe is unjustifiably negative, or do you feel it comes with the territory of being more informed or serious about the hobby than casuals?

You cannot look at the shit going on in the industry today, i.e. everything is either battle royale MP, GaaS, MTX-mess, woke'd up the wazoo, semi-conductor scarcity, the mess that is the VG media, the rise of China and Tencent buying up every third party that isn't being bought by MS, internet faboys etc and not consider that the outlook on gaming is largely negative.

There is much more happening across the industry that is utter creamy horseshit, than that which is worthy of excitement.

It's no wonder gamers online are becoming more cynical.

I'll use one of my strengths, Final Fantasy, as an example. It seems like after FFX, every entry has initially been hated by the vocal majority of people who are invested enough in gaming to post online about it. I make this distinction, because these games in general sell gangbusters, which I surmise is because of the casual crowd, the parents looking for holiday gifts, the teens who think a game looks cool based on the box art, etc, etc. It seems to take a couple of years for the niche these newer games capture to become organized enough to make any kind of notable presence in online communities.

This is more of an artefact of fanboys and trolls on internet forums. Spend too much time online in communities like Gaf and you'll get the sense that every generally universally praised game is trash. That's only because forum-goers tend towards a negativity bias in their posting, i.e. they'll make more posts bitching about stuff they don't like than post about stuff they do. And that follows logically because negativity generates more discussion than positivity.

Same can be said for lots of newer entries in old/storied franchises. It seems like the games that get more widely accepted are the ones that have either a. Never been done before, or b. Hit on some kind of nostalgia that resonates with people. I think this is a large part of the reason developers have started trending toward remakes/remasters.

So, I ask (with no real horse in the race, either way) if gaming communities/this community is defaulting to a negative stance on too many issues. Have we become so enamored with the product that we fail to enjoy it, that the magic is gone? Or are we holding developers up to a standard in their craft? If we were of the same level of intelligence and experience, set back 20 years, would we drilling Ocarina of Time and Final Fantasy VII as lackluster entries? I think it's an interesting enough conversation to have.

Gaming communities online don't really represent the largely held sentiments of enthusiast gamers as a whole, nor even does the activity of communities online even properly reflect the sentiments of those same communities themselves. As above, most posters will spend more time posting about stuff they dislike than the stuff they like.

This is why the forum's biggest Xbox fanboys, for example, spend more time in PS threads than anywhere else, and likely vice-versa.
 

TheCockatrice

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Jun 16, 2019
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How can you tell a company they suck without being negative? "Hey activision, you are positively draining!"