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Article: CLOUD GAMING CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO REPLACE LOCAL GAMING!!!

BlackTron

Member
input lag and zero access to game files are the 2 main things that makes cloud gaming just an awful idea.
as long as it only is used as an alternative it's totally fine, but should it ever actually take over, that would mean archiving games will become impossible and developers/publishers can simply take their games out of existence at any point

I really like it as an alternative. Launch or just demo a giant game with no install, even if you aren't near your best hardware. Lots of games aren't killed by the input lag issues like RPG or janky open world. But if gaming went ALL cloud I would just straight up go on strike and quit for good. It's bad for my favorite types of games, very twitchy stuff.
 

Hezekiah

Banned
Cheaper ? What are your datas ?
You just need a hardware able to run a 720P video feed, 15 mbps internet, 50 if you're not single.

If you play f2p it's cheaper than a PS4.
If you play AAA it's faaaaaaaar cheaper than PS5:

RDR2
Stadia 60 bucks and that's it.
PS5 560 bucks...
Yeah cheaper. Because it's shit.

GeForce Now is the best, but it's expensive if you want the decent (3080 option) given that you dont own anything.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Cheaper ? What are your datas ?
You just need a hardware able to run a 720P video feed, 15 mbps internet, 50 if you're not single.

If you play f2p it's cheaper than a PS4.
If you play AAA it's faaaaaaaar cheaper than PS5:

RDR2
Stadia 60 bucks and that's it.
PS5 560 bucks...

Sure, and that is fine as long as Stadia isn't very popular, but if they start getting more gamers then you'll have wait times to get on to the servers like with GFN. There are always trade offs.
 
Same arguments were made against Wi-Fi when it was starting to take over. Yes, wired connection is better than Wi-Fi, but the simplicity of not needing to worry about a wire won out over consistent and high-speed wired connections. Same will follow with cloud gaming. It is still in its early years. Give it a decade or two and the majority of people who play video games will be streaming them. Local users will be around the same way wired internet users are still around. Just use what you prefer. If most people want to stream, why not let them?
 

Hezekiah

Banned
This makes sense. For example, the people here in the US that are able to find a PS5 or Series X for "manufacturer's retail price" always post on social media like they've won the lottery. I know that for me personally, the only next-gen consoles I've seen are the ones I ordered from Amazon because I hounded Wario64s twitter and pre-ordered them when they sold out within seconds. And these consoles have been out for nearly two years now.

With growing inflation, and chip shortages, gas shortages, etc. these consoles should have probably launched with an MSRP of $800-$1,000 (or more) here in the US. Scalpers are certainly making more money than that, so the demand is obviously there for that price point to be viable for them. My guess is that less and less consoles are being made now simply because selling them wholesale to places like Amazon or Walmart is probably costing Sony and Microsoft a ton of money at this point, or at best they're breaking even. Meanwhile, the average scalper is acting as a weird middleman that's making massive profits.

When the next-next gen consoles (or Pro variants) arrive, they'll likely be more expensive than any other console before it. They'll probably get laughed at for being too expensive like the 3DS or PS3 - but the reality will be that they simply can't make those consoles and not charge a premium for them. I could definitely see gaming consoles retailing for $1,000 or more soon. Hell with modern inflation (vs 1991) a Neo-Geo would cost $1,400.

Sure, for us enthusiasts we'll pay the premium. A lot of us PC gamers already do, when high end graphics cards can cost $1,000 or more. For most people, Cloud gaming will become a more and more affordable option as time goes on. When faced with a choice of a $1,000+ upfront investment + $70 per game, or $10-$15 per month for a changing assortment of games, I know which one most struggling US families would pick... Even if it means sacrificing visual fidelity or having to put up with input lag.
Except the starting price is nowhere near that for console gamers, and games don't stay at $70 forever. You can easily build a backlog buying games for half that price. Even for PC gamers they're generally new components bit-by-bit, and the proportion that buy $1,000 GPUs is very small.

Also most casuals that like to play games on their phone simply aren't going to pay $10 - $15 to subscribe a a cloud gaming platform.
 

Fat Frog

I advertise for Google Stadia
No one talking about poor video quality?
My brain can adopt to latency but poor video quality just kills it for me.
My honesty is without limit (😎) so yeah i'll admit that.
Hezekiah Hezekiah
RDR2 on Stadia is shit ?

Indeed, the first hour has a pretty mediocre image (snow particles + night = often bad artifact on streaming services)

For the rest, sorry but my shit runs at 60 FPS (30 on the Next Gen), that's why i have less latency (only PC gamers have better results) no DL, no updates, no more lack of storage like the Series S and i can share my games with 5 groups of people.

How about that ?
You're in a denial mode, pawl 😜

Without Stadia, i would have bought a PS4 only for RDR2 at 30 FPS.(console + the game: 200 useless bucks because Cyberpunk runs like shit on it...

So my only way to play RDR2/Cyberpunk with decent performances was Stadia/GFN.(won't buy a next gen for them)

Topher Topher
Like i said, cloud isn't magical.
Yeah, i'll probably have queues like Xcloud/GFN one day but that's not horrible either. (I had 2 minutes on GFN SOR4 but i guess it's safe to avoid AAA at lauch on this service 😆... They had several hours, i believe. 😅
I played on Stadia 😎)
 

reksveks

Member
but if they start getting more gamers then you'll have wait times to get on to the servers like with GFN. There are always trade offs.
That's just 'bad' provisioning imo (not really bad cause there always will be a delay but it's fixable if you wanted to pay for it)

Also most casuals that like to play games on their phone simply aren't going to pay $10 - $15 to subscribe a a cloud gaming platform.
Where i think discounting on King mtx might get a bit interesting
 

Hezekiah

Banned
My honesty is without limit (😎) so yeah i'll admit that.
Hezekiah Hezekiah
RDR2 on Stadia is shit ?

Indeed, the first hour has a pretty mediocre image (snow particles + night = often bad artifact on streaming services)

For the rest, sorry but my shit runs at 60 FPS (30 on the Next Gen), that's why i have less latency (only PC gamers have better results) no DL, no updates, no more lack of storage like the Series S and i can share my games with 5 groups of people.

How about that ?
You're in a denial mode, pawl 😜

Without Stadia, i would have bought a PS4 only for RDR2 at 30 FPS.(console + the game: 200 useless bucks because Cyberpunk runs like shit on it...

So my only way to play RDR2/Cyberpunk with decent performances was Stadia/GFN.(won't buy a next gen for them)
Stadia is shit 😄
 

Hezekiah

Banned
The people comparing the TV and music industry to gaming are kinda missing the point - those are passive forms of entertainment. Things like input lag and image quality are massive negatives in an active form of entertainment like gaming.
 

Topher

Gold Member
That's just 'bad' provisioning imo (not really bad cause there always will be a delay but it's fixable if you wanted to pay for it)

I'd say it is probably strategic provisioning. GFN doesn't get any funds from free tier so gamers are stuck in long queues just to be able to play a game for a single hour at a time. Free tier is more like a demo to get gamers to subscribe.
 

reksveks

Member
I'd say it is probably strategic provisioning. GFN doesn't get any funds from free tier so gamers are stuck in long queues just to be able to play a game for a single hour at a time. Free tier is more like a demo to get gamers to subscribe.
Yeah, there is that incentive as well.

Bad was a poor phrasing but my point was that I don't doubt Google and MS, if they wanted to, could fund (through other rev streams) enough hw/servers to mean they dont have queues. MS are kinda doing imo that for f2p, they are probably hoping that they make their money through the mtx.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Not as the main form of transport. Which is what I’m getting at regarding tech changes.

Sure, but my point is people riding horses never really went away. So for folks claiming we will all be playing games in the cloud whether we like it or not, I think it is completely logical to point to other examples where something was made seemingly obsolete and yet is still completely accessible. And while people riding horses is a tiny fraction compared to everyone else in cars, I don't think we are going to see that sort of massive shift when it comes to local vs cloud gaming. Local gaming will continue to be an option as long as there is a demand even if/when cloud gaming becomes the preferred method by the masses. That's how I see it anyway.

Yeah, there is that incentive as well.

Bad was a poor phrasing but my point was that I don't doubt Google and MS, if they wanted to, could fund (through other rev streams) enough hw/servers to mean they dont have queues. MS are kinda doing imo that for f2p, they are probably hoping that they make their money through the mtx.

Stadia needs more consumer adoption more than anything at this point. They seem to be the red-headed stepchild of cloud gaming with their poor launch and limited selection. So I think perhaps server availability isn't much of a problem. xCloud doesn't have a free tier, but I haven't had much issues getting a game spun up yet and they are still in beta.
 
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Fahdis

Member
The Internet will Never Take Off!
Amazon will Never Work!
WiFi? Lmao!
Touchscreen? Disgusting!
Netflix is a pipedream!
Bitcoin above a $? You're deluded.
Console FPS? Pffttttt
I will NEVER buy Digital Games! <---- 2016
Sony won't go to PC! I will Riot! <---- You were here Last Summer
Imagine thinking the CLOUD will ever replace Local Hardware! <---- You are here now.
 

Topher

Gold Member
The Internet will Never Take Off!
Amazon will Never Work!
WiFi? Lmao!
Touchscreen? Disgusting!
Netflix is a pipedream!
Bitcoin above a $? You're deluded.
Console FPS? Pffttttt
I will NEVER buy Digital Games! <---- 2016
Sony won't go to PC! I will Riot! <---- You were here Last Summer
Imagine thinking the CLOUD will ever replace Local Hardware! <---- You are here now.


Vinyl records are dead.
Seqway will redefine the world.
PC gaming is dead (ten years ago)
This is the last console generation (two gens ago)
etc. etc.
 
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mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Because i believe it will happen. It's that simple. That doesn't mean i like it.

There would need to be a whole generation of people that just don't find any advantages to owning their games (be it hard copies or downloads).
 

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
A service that delivers worse latency and IQ that's worse then low bitrate YouTube video from over a decade ago.
Yeah I can see it taking off.
 
Why do people use today's limitation with internet and latency to discredit the future of game streaming. Do these people really believe Internet speeds, accessibility, and latency with not improve significantly in the next 10 to 20 years? Things like Starlink internet shows that great progress is being in this regard made as we speak.
 
There would need to be a whole generation of people that just don't find any advantages to owning their games (be it hard copies or downloads).
That generation already exists with people who stopped caring if they own CDs/Vinyls of their favorite artists and gave that up for the convenience of streaming.
 
A service that delivers worse latency and IQ that's worse then low bitrate YouTube video from over a decade ago.
Yeah I can see it taking off.
You must have been a board member of Blockbuster that laughed at the idea of Netflix as it was being presented.
 

Fahdis

Member
Vinyl records are dead.
Seqway will redefine the world.
PC gaming is dead (ten years ago)
This is the last console generation (two gens ago)
etc. etc.

It was a matter of time. Look who has Spotify.
No one thought of Segways as life changing. Maybe Fatass Americans.
No one thought of this either.
What the fuck. That wasn't even 2 generations ago. It is probably leading to it now.
 

Topher

Gold Member
That generation already exists with people who stopped caring if they own CDs/Vinyls of their favorite artists and gave that up for the convenience of streaming.

But there are still people who buy them and so companies still sell them.

You must have been a board member of Blockbuster that laughed at the idea of Netflix as it was being presented.

And you can still rent DVDs from Netflix.

It was a matter of time. Look who has Spotify.
No one thought of Segways as life changing. Maybe Fatass Americans.
No one thought of this either.
What the fuck. That wasn't even 2 generations ago. It is probably leading to it now.

Most didn't believe the stuff you listed either so...
 
The people comparing the TV and music industry to gaming are kinda missing the point - those are passive forms of entertainment. Things like input lag and image quality are massive negatives in an active form of entertainment like gaming.
Streaming music is noticeably worse in sound quality than traditional physical formats and yet in the span of 10 years people just didn't care. The same will happen here. Physical game copies will output 4K or even 8K, but if streaming can do 2K quality I would bet the majority would flock to the cheaper/more convenient option.
 
But there are still people who buy them and so companies still sell them.



And you can still rent DVDs from Netflix.
CDs, Vinyls, and standard DVDs (720p quality) are sold today as relics of a bygone era for people who enjoy retro formats. I don't understand how this helps your argument. Are you saying that consoles will be available as gimmicks for a few people to still purchase and reminisce about? If so I agree lol.
 

Topher

Gold Member
CDs, Vinyls, and standard DVDs (720p quality) are sold today as relics of a bygone era for people who enjoy retro formats. I don't understand how this helps your argument. Are you saying that consoles will be available as gimmicks for a few people to still purchase and reminisce about? If so I agree lol.

No, CDs, vinyl, DVD, etc. are sold today because they still make money. That isn't a gimmick. It is simple business. Local gaming doesn't have to be the preferred way for gamers of the future to still be lucrative segment of the industry and we have seen the lengths publishers will go to go squeeze out every single dollar for their game.
 

Fat Frog

I advertise for Google Stadia
Streaming music is noticeably worse in sound quality than traditional physical formats and yet in the span of 10 years people just didn't care. The same will happen here. Physical game copies will output 4K or even 8K, but if streaming can do 2K quality I would bet the majority would flock to the cheaper/more convenient option.
Plus, for 100 million switch gamers AAA games are limited to 720P/30 FPS:
https://nintendosoup.com/metro-redu...20p-in-tv-mode-and-480p-in-handheld-mode/amp/
So i don't think the 4K of Stadia will be a problem for these people. 😇 (in fact, some switch players are buying AAA on Stadia instead of buying Series X or PS5)
 

reksveks

Member
xCloud doesn't have a free tier, but I haven't had much issues getting a game spun up yet and they are still in beta.
It kinda does for a free to play game, will be more in the future but yeah, i have only had 1/2 occasions of a queue.

Stadia needs more consumer adoption more than anything at this point. They seem to be the red-headed stepchild of cloud gaming with their poor launch and limited selection
Stadia as a service for consumers I think is going to die sadly but can see them just allow white-labeling to be cheap enough that most large publishers are using it. The issue is whether users will want to deal with that in terms of various services but who knows.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Your console has a lot of input lag. Mind blown, I know.
That's a funny way of handwaving cloud issues because now your favorite brand does it.
Tea Time Drink GIF by VH1
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
With an entire generation growing up knowing they'll probably never be able to own a home, I think the nuance of "owning" or having "access" to a game is the least of their concern. As long as it boots up and plays when they want it too, they wont care.
That's right ya little bag of meat... just consoooooooooom.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
That generation already exists with people who stopped caring if they own CDs/Vinyls of their favorite artists and gave that up for the convenience of streaming.

Totally different. The convenience factor of not physically walking around with 200 CDs is different from "only" being able to stream a game. In some ways, cloud gaming can be less convenient.
 

Hezekiah

Banned
Streaming music is noticeably worse in sound quality than traditional physical formats and yet in the span of 10 years people just didn't care. The same will happen here. Physical game copies will output 4K or even 8K, but if streaming can do 2K quality I would bet the majority would flock to the cheaper/more convenient option.
No way, only people unused to gaming will accept lag that directly impacts the quality of your play as an alternative to dedicated hardware.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
It was a matter of time. Look who has Spotify.
No one thought of Segways as life changing. Maybe Fatass Americans.
No one thought of this either.
What the fuck. That wasn't even 2 generations ago. It is probably leading to it now.

My man........are you 10 years old? People 100% said PC gaming was dead. Plus they did say the PS4 generation would be the last generation. How do you NOT know this? Unless..................


No conspiracy talk from me on this, but yeah...............I'm not surprised that there are business people out here saying this in 2022 as a form on "Inception". Hoping that 8 years later we'll be thinking it was our idea the whole time.


With an entire generation growing up knowing they'll probably never be able to own a home, I think the nuance of "owning" or having "access" to a game is the least of their concern. As long as it boots up and plays when they want it too, they wont care.

Do you live in America? I'm going to assume no. But if you do, I'm almost 100% sure you are black lol. Within the black community in America, there's a huge push for ownership at all levels. Because we now realize how much was stolen from us over America's 250-year history. So I'm shocked to see you say these things. Who are these people that don't care about owning anything?
 
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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
My man........are you 10 years old? People 100% said PC gaming was dead. Plus they did say the PS4 generation would be the last generation. How do you NOT know this? Unless..................



No conspiracy talk from me on this, but yeah...............I'm not surprised that there are business people out here saying this in 2022 as a form on "Inception". Hoping that 8 years later we'll be thinking it was our idea the whole time.
This is the WEF made up of world leaders alongside powerful wealthy people, and this article from them is dated 2016. ;)

It's definitively a conspiracy, just not a theory. They literally openly say what they're doing in their own published books and articles, lol.
 
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Fahdis

Member
Not having to buy a $500 console is a huge convenience.

They don't understand the convenience. I don't like Stadia one bit because they are late to the party or too early with their business model. Luna is keeping its mouth shut. PS Now and XCloud are still building their infrastructure but so far they are inferior to PC. GFN, a service that fixes all the issues these people are talking about is literally slid under:

- Latency (play on the Free tiers with Queues and complain about it)
- Artifacts (again playing on the shittiest tier)
- True Ownership (an actual non-issue when even on physical we ever only own the license)
- No Mods (if Steam Workshop allows it, it works)
- Game preservation (this I agree with)

But are ready to dismiss:

- Latency in Consoles when its already in ms terms and usually on par with the Cloud and even on PC the edge is only 1/2 more
- Low Cost Barrier of Entry
- 90% of the Gamer Crowd is Casual
- True Mobility of Playing on any Device if the environment is optimal
- Infrastructure will probably expand in the future
- Hardware can break
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Not having to buy a $500 console is a huge convenience.

1. No one believes that every gamer needs\wants to buy a console within it's 1st launch year. Consoles and GPUs drop in price all the time.
2. Gamers that want to play games, but think spending a few hundred bucks on hardware is too much "SHOULDN'T" be these video game company's main target audience.
3. Losing access to games "HAS" to be a bigger inconvenience, than paying a few hundred dollars for hardware.
 
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