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Article: CLOUD GAMING CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO REPLACE LOCAL GAMING!!!

Haggard

Banned
Cloud gaming will establish itself as the always available 2nd choice if local hardware is either not available or too expensive. It will however never replace local hardware for the simple reason that we can't overcome physics alone.
 
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svbarnard

Banned
I have seen someone here say cloud gaming has less input lag than local gaming, what the fuck are you talking about?

In cloud gaming the information has to travel through the internet to a server to be processed and then travel back through the internet to ultimately end up on your TV. This will always have more latency than local gaming ALWAYS!!!!!
 

Doom85

Member
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I have seen someone here say cloud gaming has less input lag than local gaming, what the fuck are you talking about?

In cloud gaming the information has to travel through the internet to a server to be processed and then travel back through the internet to ultimately end up on your TV. This will always have more latency than local gaming ALWAYS!!!!!
ok boomer
 

ChorizoPicozo

Gold Member
Jajajajajajaja. People going crazy with the concept of Cloud Gaming or subscription services is funny.

Well; the market is going to decide.

Logically, one could say that cloud gaming is going to get bigger that is for sure. Replacing local gaming?...who knows? Maybe in 20 years. But I don't think so (there is always going to be a market for consoles/PC)
 

Fat Frog

I advertised for Google Stadia

THE LAST THING A GAMER WANTS IS MORE INPUT LAG WHICH IS WHAT CLOUD GAMING BRINGS TO THE TABLE!!!
latest

Take a deep breath, pawl 😜.

Local gaming will never be replaced by cloud. Yeah, it could be beaten on the mass market (100 millions of dick heads were enjoying unplayable Wii sports after all 🤪) but both can and will coexist.

As for your message, it's half wrong. Local is great but there are also bad performances and input lag.

Doom Switch is probably more blurry than most RTX3080 GFN FPS, Judgment has more input lag on PS4 than Stadia, RTX GFN 3080 tier has less input lag and better performances than PS5.

So yeah, you can always find the best performances on a high end PC... For what cost ? Thousands additional bucks for a better IQ, mods ? Ok, it's cool but RTX 3080 tier already has fantastic results and you're not stuck with one service. Samsung gaming hub already has preinstalled Xcloud, Stadia, GFN...
 
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yurinka

Member
If instead of playing via a mc Donalds wifi with a shitty router you use wired LAN connection, have a decent router, a good fiber connection and the cloud gaming server isn't too far, most players don't notice the difference with local gaming beyond some slowdown that may appear from time to time due to internet traffic. This is today, when playing in great conditions cloud gaming introduces less input lag than most tvs available in the market, or good tvs where it's played without using "game mode".

Once in the future they find a better business model that allows them to put more servers around the world and people start getting better internet connections with faster speeds and less latency, and once they keep improving the streaming tech, video codecs and so on, and once these services have clients everywhere and a better catalog and pricing it will become mainstream.

People won't need to buy a $500 console or $2000+ PC to play great high end AAA games. Local gaming will always be there in the same way that even if digital games eated a huge chunk of the market physical games continue there. Or in the same way that even if mobile games own over half of gaming market console and PC gaming continues there, or even if F2P/GaaS also dominates the market traditional paid games continue there.

Cloud gaming would also kill piracy and online multiplayer cheating.

I don't think cloud gaming will replace local..... on PC

On consoles, yeah local will eventually be going away. The simple fact is that the majority who play on console do not care about input lag, preservation, or access to game files. They just want their fucking 2k.
PC gamers are too hardcore and competitive to just let control of their games and hardware fall away like that.
The big majority of PC players don't care about input lag, preservation, access to game files, 2K, competitiv games or mods.

Hardcore players are a tiny portion of the market in PC and elsewhere. Same goes with PC gamers with high end (better than console) hardware, they are a tiny portion of the market too.

And what happens if say the "PS7" for example was 100% cloud based?
They'll need more time to:
  • To get an almost complete proper worldwide coverage of placing tons of servers everywhere
  • To do it with a profitable business model that makes sense both for the platform holder, the game publishers and the players
  • To get rid of internet data caps in at least main countries
  • To provide a good enough internet connection coverage in terms of latency almost everywhere either via 5G or 6G, satellite, fiber or whatever new tech that will appear in the future
I think PS7 may not feature disc games anymore and that by then cloud gaming will be pretty important but still will be far from making consoles/local gamiing obsolete.

I think that by that generation it won't be needed to chase higher resolutions because won't make sense to go beyond 8K (or even 4K) and 120fps specially with new, more polished scaling tech, and evolved version of what we saw in UE5 will allow models with a gazillion polygons with insane textures and materials plus an ultra realistic real time lighting and reflections. So in terms of horsepower race I think they'll slow down because most players won't notice it so there won't be no point of it.

This will mean that over time that hardware will become smaller and cheaper so we'll end getting the high end gaming hardware on most phones, tablets, home consoles, portable consoles, smartwatches (all with tv out) or tvs. I also think OS, hardware and game engines will continue converging to the point you'll have the same game playable locally in any device.

I also think game subs, VR, F2P and Play to Earn will be then way more important than now but paid games and non VR games will still be there.
 
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M16

Member
Cloud gaming will eventuay replace local gaming. It's inevitable. It's already mind blowing technology and works really well( if you're close to a data center). The mass consumer / casual crowd will choose it 9/10 times over having to buy hardware.
 
I remember people in the 90s saying first person shooters would never be as popular on consoles as they are on PC because the controls are too cumbersome and unresponsive. What ended up happening, of course, is that developers started making shooters with sluggish controls in mind - generous auto aim and bullet magnetism to help with accuracy and ADS to slow down the pace of gameplay.

I can see the same thing happening over time with streaming tech. If certain games aren't a good fit for it, then these games will either be modified to change that, or simply become less common.
 

MayauMiao

Member
with SUNSPOTS and SOLAR FLARES cloudgaming simply cant succeed.

Don't forget rolling blackouts.



At least with local, with a generator or off grid power, you can still have fun gaming.
 
relatively unnoticeable to casual plebs with low standards yeah. also stutters in the video stream will always be an issue due to the nature of the low latency priority of the stream as the video stream can not buffer ahead and therefore any missed transfer will result in hitching.
Considering how people are used to slutters and all other stuff related to streaming in general (people watching other people playing games etc.), I don't think it will be a big deal. And so-called "casual plebs" represent the biggest chunk (80%) of the gaming market.
 

01011001

Banned
Considering how people are used to slutters and all other stuff related to streaming in general (people watching other people playing games etc.), I don't think it will be a big deal. And so-called "casual plebs" represent the biggest chunk (80%) of the gaming market.

it's something completely different if you watch something that stutters and if you play something that stutters.

and yes, sadly the casuals are taking over, but even most of them know what feels good to play and what doesn't.
Call of Duty isn't as popular as it is without reason.
during the 360 generation it quickly established itself as the shooter to hat feels better than anything else on the market. and one reason for that was the focus on super low latency 60fps gameplay... and the casuals noticed that.

just like the casuals generally gravitate towards low latency 60fps games. it's a subconscious thing. these games simply feel better to play, they might not even realize what it is that makes them feel better but they still know.

it's a subset of casual players that also have really low standards that will gravitate towards these cloud services. the ones that barely can hold a controller the right way.
 

kraspkibble

Permabanned.
i don't think it will because i'm not sure it's meant to replace local games on PC/consoles. it seems like it's aimed at people who want to play games but don't want to pay full price for a game or buy hardware. full price is now £70 for games and consoles are £350-450 (and even more for a PC). cloud gaming is aimed at people who want to play the games on their smartphone/tablet or through an app/dongle on their TV. it's also for people who already have a console/PC but want to keep playing their favourite games when not at home.

there isn't any need to panic just yet. for starters, cloud gaming needs to improve significantly to even match the quality/performance of local games. i've been trying out xCloud and games are barely playable/enjoyable because the image quality is basically the same as a crappy YT video, there is significant input lag, and stuttering/audio issues.
 

Topher

Gold Member
I don't get why people talk of cloud in terms of "replacement" for local gaming. Cloud gaming will compliment local gaming. For some, it may become the sole means of accessing games, but plenty of others will still want to play games on local hardware where they have more control and frankly, a better experience all around. As long as there is demand for local hardware then companies will be happy to sell local hardware and games.
 

Chukhopops

Member
When a new way to play is introduced it doesn’t replace existing ways, it comes on top of them. Mobile games didn’t replace console games, which didn’t replace PC games. Some people will change their habits, others won’t, new people will enter the industry and life will go on.

What I’m convinced of is that « local » hardware will become more and more expensive, to the point where Cloud will make a lot of sense for non-hardcore people.
 

TrebleShot

Member
It can and it will old man.
(I am 34 btw)

Cloud gaming is here already and will only get better and better only recently you had:

GFN allowing 3080 performance 4k60/120 with no hardware other than what you have now in the palms of your hands or a tiny HDMI stick.

Instant demos without registration with RE8

Streaming of high end stuff to switch

Cloud PC (shadow) for other uses and non GFN apps

Sony integrating BC via streaming

Xbox Cloud

Get used to it brother, of course I think local will be available for so,e it,e but the focus will almost definitely switch to cloud solutions much like professional SAAS.

It will be like Netflix vs DVD option is still there but why would you.
 

Fat Frog

I advertised for Google Stadia
I have seen someone here say cloud gaming has less input lag than local gaming, what the fuck are you talking about?

In cloud gaming the information has to travel through the internet to a server to be processed and then travel back through the internet to ultimately end up on your TV. This will always have more latency than local gaming ALWAYS!!!!!
He is right, i'll post the digital foundry comparison.

High end PC has the best latency but GFN3080 beats the PS5, Stadia very often beats the PS4 because of 60 FPS.(at 30 FPS ps4 has the high ground but the console cannot handle Judgment RDR2 at 60 for instance, Stadia can... That's why Xbox One X lost the DF latency comparison against Stadia).
 
I have bad news for you: things like pristine image quality and low input lag is something only we, the assholes that reside on gaming forums and the pro gamers are concerned about.

The rest of the target audience (98%) doesn’t care and only want the cheapest and most comfortable option.
So if Sony and Microsoft wants us to stream games, we are going to stream games.
 

MagnesD3

Member
Input lag will Disappear with time as internet and technology advances.

But also I don’t see streaming working the same in the far future as it does now. At some point hardware will be advanced enough that even the smallest chip will produce graphics far beyond what budget, time, and skill can produce. All you will Need to stream is the data itself.
This will never occur for bigger nations like the us.
 

reksveks

Member
When a new way to play is introduced it doesn’t replace existing ways, it comes on top of them. Mobile games didn’t replace console games, which didn’t replace PC games. Some people will change their habits, others won’t, new people will enter the industry and life will go on.

What I’m convinced of is that « local » hardware will become more and more expensive, to the point where Cloud will make a lot of sense for non-hardcore people.
As soon as the 'cloud players' make more profit for the companies than 'local players', the companies will try and find a way to increase the profit on 'local players' and that's really has to be via increasing the profit margins on consoles. the only thing that might be interesting (and I am still waiting for it but tech does sometimes take longer than I hope) is whether local gaming hw can be used for a more P2P version of xcloud/game streaming. If so, it might still be better for companies to sell consoles at a loss.
 

reksveks

Member
I don't get why people talk of cloud in terms of "replacement" for local gaming. Cloud gaming will compliment local gaming. For some, it may become the sole means of accessing games, but plenty of others will still want to play games on local hardware where they have more control and frankly, a better experience all around. As long as there is demand for local hardware then companies will be happy to sell local hardware and games.
I don't get it as well, Guess people can only view the world as full of binary options.
 

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
What I’m convinced of is that « local » hardware will become more and more expensive, to the point where Cloud will make a lot of sense for non-hardcore people.
This makes sense. For example, the people here in the US that are able to find a PS5 or Series X for "manufacturer's retail price" always post on social media like they've won the lottery. I know that for me personally, the only next-gen consoles I've seen are the ones I ordered from Amazon because I hounded Wario64s twitter and pre-ordered them when they sold out within seconds. And these consoles have been out for nearly two years now.

With growing inflation, and chip shortages, gas shortages, etc. these consoles should have probably launched with an MSRP of $800-$1,000 (or more) here in the US. Scalpers are certainly making more money than that, so the demand is obviously there for that price point to be viable for them. My guess is that less and less consoles are being made now simply because selling them wholesale to places like Amazon or Walmart is probably costing Sony and Microsoft a ton of money at this point, or at best they're breaking even. Meanwhile, the average scalper is acting as a weird middleman that's making massive profits.

When the next-next gen consoles (or Pro variants) arrive, they'll likely be more expensive than any other console before it. They'll probably get laughed at for being too expensive like the 3DS or PS3 - but the reality will be that they simply can't make those consoles and not charge a premium for them. I could definitely see gaming consoles retailing for $1,000 or more soon. Hell with modern inflation (vs 1991) a Neo-Geo would cost $1,400.

Sure, for us enthusiasts we'll pay the premium. A lot of us PC gamers already do, when high end graphics cards can cost $1,000 or more. For most people, Cloud gaming will become a more and more affordable option as time goes on. When faced with a choice of a $1,000+ upfront investment + $70 per game, or $10-$15 per month for a changing assortment of games, I know which one most struggling US families would pick... Even if it means sacrificing visual fidelity or having to put up with input lag.
 

pasterpl

Member
I recently started playing via cloud more and more everyday, touch controls are kind of shit, but with controller or razor kishi it is very good experience.

I would rate it as follows:

mobile only with touch - still lots of work to be done to make it appealing to masses
mobile with controller (kishi or Xbox) - can be fun, but the screen size can be an issue
tablet with touch - same issues like with mobile
tablet with controller - great experience (played psychonauts 2 while on holidays on my surface pro x and was extremely impressed)
last gen Xbox, wired connection, almost native experience.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
Cloud gaming has been fine when I've used it. I use it several times per week. I don't see it completely replacing local gaming but the tech totally works.

Ownership is an illusion these days. Even with physical you don't really own much any more.
 
Relax, OP. Cloud gaming is not replacing hardware gaming.

Don't get me wrong, it's not going anywhere and will become more prevalent. But local hardware will always be undeniably a better experience for gaming and thus the market for it will always be there.
 

Mr Reasonable

Completely Unreasonable
How is console hardware cost going up? Certainly not for the player.
Sorry I should have said rising cost of living making dedicated hardware an expense that is less justifiable when other devices cover the same function.
Also your own argument that most people aren't bothered about quality is what will keep them playing on mobile instead of using the cloud to play traditional games. It's a lot more simple and hassle free to just play on a console than to worry about all the problems that comes will gaming streaming for the people that actually like these games.

I think that is correct, people will play on phones etc, but they'll play a streamed game with a controller rather than a mobile game on touchscreen.

Interface is a big problem for mobile games, but so is that people want the big name titles.

For me, I'm happy buying a console and running things locally. Gaming is a big hobby for me, but it doesn't take much imagination to see the mass, casual market going for the lower cost option for what can be marketed as the same experiences. Some people evangelise Stadia etc now, Microsoft doing the same but better is quite possible.

I think Microsoft are hedging their bets but they're not playing around either. It'll be interesting to see how it goes, I won't mourn cloud gaming if it disappears but I also won't be surprised if it becomes dominant.
 
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Topher

Gold Member
He is right, i'll post the digital foundry comparison.

High end PC has the best latency but GFN3080 beats the PS5, Stadia very often beats the PS4 because of 60 FPS.(at 30 FPS ps4 has the high ground but the console cannot handle Judgment RDR2 at 60 for instance, Stadia can... That's why Xbox One X lost the DF latency comparison against Stadia).

Article linked below, but experiences are going to vary depending on how far one is away from the data center where the game is actually running. Still, it is definitely impressive what Nvidia has achieved. If I were to go 100% cloud gaming then GFN would be my choice.

 
Sorry I should have said rising cost of living making dedicated hardware an expense that is less justifiable when other devices cover the same function.


I think that is correct, people will play on phones etc, but they'll play a streamed game with a controller rather than a mobile game on touchscreen.

Interface is a big problem for mobile games, but so is that people want the big name titles.

For me, I'm happy buying a console and running things locally. Gaming is a big hobby for me, but it doesn't take much imagination to see the mass, casual market going for the lower cost option for what can be marketed as the same experiences. Some people evangelise Stadia etc now, Microsoft doing the same but better is quite possible.

I think Microsoft are hedging their bets but they're not playing around either. It'll be interesting to see how it goes, I won't mourn cloud gaming if it disappears but I also won't be surprised if it becomes dominant.
Controller on mobile ain't ever going to happening to 99.9% of people.

I think it's even more likely that people will stream games on their TVs using their mobile phones as input than anything else.
 
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it's something completely different if you watch something that stutters and if you play something that stutters.
Not really. It is not different than having bugs or issues with TVs. People don't give a damn.

It is like those control devices purists - we have (and will have) a full generation of people who play nothing but touch control games and don't care about gamepads or anything else.

Call of Duty isn't as popular as it is without reason.
COD popularity had nothing to do with its performance. It just filled the niche that was vacant at that time.
just like the casuals generally gravitate towards low latency 60fps games
That's why all those junky indie games are not pop...Oh, wait :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Do you guys think cloud gaming has a place for old people then or people with disabilites?
Disability is all about controls and has nothing to do with cloud or not cloud. In fact cloud gaming will be even beneficial for them as they will need nothing aside a controller.
 
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acm2000

Member
i play game pass cloud daily on my nvidia shield tv, works great on my 300/900 6-8ms fibre.

input lag is perfectly acceptable for pretty much everything, only time i could see it being an issue would be online multiplayer where you adding many more layers to the problem.
 

nkarafo

Member
It will be really funny when some of the cloud future defenders here start to lose access to games they like because the publisher decided they are not profitable to keep them alive.... And there is no other way to get said games because there was never a local files release for them...

It will happen. It will take a while but it will happen and i hope we will all still be here to laugh at them.

Edit: Its also sad that even most people who are against cloud are convinced input lag is the worst thing about this. Its the least of the problems. Its something that may be fixed. But lack of ownership and control cannot. Stop taking the bait to waste time on the small issues and focus on the bigger problem.
 
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