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[Ionian]

Yes. i am an Apatheist



An apatheist is someone who is not interested in accepting or rejecting any claims that gods exist or do not exist. The existence of a god or gods is not rejected, but may be designated irrelevant.

I simply do not care as it has no impact on my life

Unfortunately simply is life for some people.

Still ran away from school to the library to read 'The Exorsist' and Clive Barker books though.

Fuck your hell, I prefer theirs.

 

[DeafTourette]

Seems to me that the majority of people who are no longer believers in God were treated wrongly by humans... Not God. The Bible doesn't say you'll go to Hell... At least mine doesn't which is closer in translation to the original texts. Hell doesn't exist. There's a few other things but anyway...

There's that.

 

[RJMacready73]

Seems to me that the majority of people who are no longer believers in God were treated wrongly by humans... Not God. The Bible doesn't say you'll go to Hell... At least mine doesn't which is closer in translation to the original texts. Hell doesn't exist. There's a few other things but anyway...

There's that.

Nah the majority of people who no longer beleive in God did so around the time our parents told us Santa Claus doesn't exist

 

[FunkMiller]

I always used to ask the question when I was young: if there’s a god and he loves us, then why do so many terrible things happen on this world. And the same response every time was “it’s all part of god’s plan.”

It was always tiny little kids with hideous diseases that got me. What kind of ‘creator’ gives a two year old bone cancer? What kind of plan can that be?

Nope. Always made more sense to me that there is no god. No plan. No guidance. Bad things simply happen… as do good things. You just have to concentrate on thinking about the good, and try to cope with the bad. And know that there’s no safety net, or entity to judge or forgive you.

With freedom comes both responsibility and acceptance.

 

[German Hops]

What kind of ‘creator’ gives a two year old bone cancer? What kind of plan can that be?

Scientific and technological advances will one day put an end to all suffering. The "Creator' gave us brains.
We just have to get there.

 

[Amiga]

Religion is an artefact of evolution born out of fear of death and the unknown.

most of what religions explore is life actually. unfortunately a lot of people build a wall of presumptions between themselves and religion. not giving themselves a chance.

 

[DeafTourette]

Nah the majority of people who no longer beleive in God did so around the time our parents told us Santa Claus doesn't exist

I'm talking about the posts in this thread. Like the one above the post you quoted

 

[DeafTourette]

It was always tiny little kids with hideous diseases that got me. What kind of ‘creator’ gives a two year old bone cancer? What kind of plan can that be?

Nope. Always made more sense to me that there is no god. No plan. No guidance. Bad things simply happen… as do good things. You just have to concentrate on thinking about the good, and try to cope with the bad. And know that there’s no safety net, or entity to judge or forgive you.

With freedom comes both responsibility and acceptance.

You're assuming that God gives people afflictions. The Bible doesn't say anything like that. From the blind man to the man with leprosy to other illnesses, they're not blaming God.

I'm still not sure how "God gave these people a sickness" came to be when it's not in the Bible, Torah or Qur'an.

We know it's both a genetic and environmentally caused disease... That's nothing to do with God.

 

[Amiga]

What kind of plan can that be?

life transitions, it doesn't end.

 

[Rentahamster]

You're assuming that God gives people afflictions. The Bible doesn't say anything like that. From the blind man to the man with leprosy to other illnesses, they're not blaming God.

I'm still not sure how "God gave these people a sickness" came to be when it's not in the Bible, Torah or Qur'an.

We know it's both a genetic and environmentally caused disease... That's nothing to do with God.

In the Bible, God has a precedent for giving people afflictions. He gave Job lots of afflictions. He gave the people of Egypt lice. At one point he gave the entire world the affliction of death by drowning in a flood.

Did God create everything? Does He know everything that's going to happen? Is He all-powerful? If the answer is "yes", then He is responsible for the disease. It is a genetic disease from a design that He created knowing full well that this is the destiny that awaits this child. It is from an environment that He created and controls. It is in His power to cure this disease and yet the most effective cure is not prayer but medical science.

 

[BigBooper]

He is responsible

Who has the authority to make that claim?

 

[Amiga]

Did God create everything? Does He know everything that's going to happen? Is He all-powerful? If the answer is "yes", then He is responsible for the disease.

In Islam the answer is yes. and it's fundamental. fate, good and bad, is determined by God. there is no other force. this is the point of the mortal world. the test of mankind and to bring out the good and bad potential. and the trail ends with the end of the potential for good. an important prayer is to ask God to spare us the trails, that we fear failure in them, and that we surrender and submit. and this is what the word "Islam" means, to surrender and submit to God.
In Quran it is said that the heavens and the earth were offered the responsibility and they declined, but man accepted. and man was unfair to himself, willful in ignorance.

 

[Rentahamster]

Who has the authority to make that claim?

He does by nature of His existence. Almighty power comes with almighty responsibility.

 

[BigBooper]

He does by nature of His existence. Almighty power comes with almighty responsibility.

No, I mean who says he is or has to be responsible? That quote is man made.

 

[Rentahamster]

No, I mean who says he is or has to be responsible? That quote is man made.

It's the nature of His existence. He created everything, and all goes according to God's plan and He controls fate. He has the power to cure all disease effortlessly.

In what way does that not make Him responsible? If I design a creation in a way that will specifically and inevitably lead to its own suffering and demise, how am I not responsible for that creation's fate?

 

[Ionian]

No, I mean who says he is or has to be responsible? That quote is man made.

Yet, so is God.

 

[BigBooper]

It's the nature of His existence. He created everything, and all goes according to God's plan and He controls fate. He has the power to cure all disease effortlessly.

In what way does that not make Him responsible? If I design a creation in a way that will specifically and inevitably lead to its own suffering and demise, how am I not responsible for that creation's fate?

The easy answer is to say that man was given free will and used that to corrupt the perfect creation, thus bringing about man's own suffering and things like disease and death. God set the universe in motion with laws and rules and gave man free will to be more like God and the angels, and when man fell he caused a chain reaction of suffering.

The hard answer is, I don't know.

 

[Ionian]

The easy answer is to say that man was given free will and used that to corrupt the perfect creation, thus bringing about man's own suffering and things like disease and death. God set the universe in motion with laws and rules and gave man free will to be more like God and the angels, and when man fell he caused a chain reaction of suffering.

The hard answer is, I don't know.

Don't forget Lucifer, the fallen angel. God sent him down here too.

 

[Kenpachii]

Don't forget Lucifer, the fallen angel. God sent him down here too.

What's up.

 

[Ionian]

What's up.

Not him! haha.

 

[MrMephistoX]

Raised Catholic haven’t been to church regularly in like 20 years but I honestly feel like it might be good to get my kid into it. It’s a good moral compass even if rapey priests don’t live up to it: besides she’s a girl and therefore uninteresting to pedo priests.

 

[showernota]

“All religions are the same” meme is false.

God in the flesh, Jesus, entered creation and sacrificed Himself for our sins. There is no other ‘religion’ with a God who loves us enough to do that. Every other ‘religion’ is syncretic, and is focused on people becoming ‘good enough’ through their own power.

The point is that no one is good enough, and the depression and sadness we face in life is due to our naturally sinful nature and separation from God. The personal relationship that is stressed by Christianity is because there is no ritual or act we can do as humans to save ourselves, other than believe that Jesus died for our sins, and through Him we are reconciled with God.

The lowest point in my life was when I was furthest from that truth. I’d recommend starting in the gospel of John, OP.

 

[Ionian]

Raised Catholic haven’t been to church regularly in like 20 years but I honestly feel like it might be good to get my kid into it. It’s a good moral compass even if rapey priests don’t live up to it: besides she’s a girl and therefore uninteresting to pedo priests.

My sisters were abused, be careful what you wish for.

Think I was as well but seem to have blocked it out of memory,

 

[Ionian]

“All religions are the same” meme is false.

God in the flesh, Jesus, entered creation and sacrificed Himself for our sins. There is no other ‘religion’ with a God who loves us enough to do that. Every other ‘religion’ is syncretic, and is focused on people becoming ‘good enough’ through their own power.

The point is that no one is good enough, and the depression and sadness we face in life is due to our naturally sinful nature and separation from God. The personal relationship that is stressed by Christianity is because there is no ritual or act we can do as humans to save ourselves, other than believe that Jesus died for our sins, and through Him we are reconciled with God.

The lowest point in my life was when I was furthest from that truth. I’d recommend starting in the gospel of John, OP.

Christ died for our sins as the teachings go.

Is it true though? Highly doubt it.

Where is Mary's husband in the bible? Next to nowhere, name I took as my middle one for confirmation in a church.

Someone had to remember him.

Old and new testament, barelt mentioned. Only Mary.

 

[Rentahamster]

The easy answer is to say that man was given free will and used that to corrupt the perfect creation, thus bringing about man's own suffering and things like disease and death. God set the universe in motion with laws and rules and gave man free will to be more like God and the angels, and when man fell he caused a chain reaction of suffering.

The hard answer is, I don't know.

That's not the easy answer. That's the nonsense answer people give when they try to rationalize why there's bad things in the world.

If you accept an omnipotent and omniscient God, you have to accept that He controls everything. I don't know what kind of god you believe in, but most people envision their god as an all powerful all knowing benevolent creator. That necessarily has to mean that God controls everything, so a concept like free will that is somehow out of God's control is contradictory. Alternatively, if these punishments are in fact God's will, then it is necessarily his intention and thus his responsibility and not very benevolent either.

 

[Ionian]

age of Mythology was amazing. Still play it over,

The Bullfrog animal one was shite, don't even remember it's name and a huge Bullfrog fan.

Just ... boring. Slap your creature, zzzzzzzzzzz.

Creature might get annoyed and kill villagers, such a dumb game. Wasn't cheap either, bought it on launch. Think 50 - 60 ponds in old money.

 

[BigBooper]

That's not the easy answer. That's the nonsense answer people give when they try to rationalize why there's bad things in the world.

If you accept an omnipotent and omniscient God, you have to accept that He controls everything. I don't know what kind of god you believe in, but most people envision their god as an all powerful all knowing benevolent creator. That necessarily has to mean that God controls everything, so a concept like free will that is somehow out of God's control is contradictory. Alternatively, if these punishments are in fact God's will, then it is necessarily his intention and thus his responsibility and not very benevolent either.

Well, then the God that you are imagining is not the Christian God and is not based on biblical doctrine or historical tradition and instead on modern cultural norms akin to Disney interpretation. No one can argue in defense of the Christian God using a litmus test of made up expectations.

I only say it's the easy answer because it's the biblical and religious historical answer, so I didn't have to come up with it. If you want me to come up with a logical answer why God would have done things the way He did, I wouldn't be able to do it well.

What I would start with would be we have no understanding of things in the same way as Him. Conflict and struggle brings out character in a person that they might need before they die. After all, in the context of the Christian God, what is a life of less than 100 years compared to eternity? Just a speck of time.

 

[Rentahamster]

Well, then the God that you are imagining is not the Christian God and is not based on biblical doctrine or historical tradition and instead on modern cultural norms akin to Disney interpretation. No one can argue in defense of the Christian God using a litmus test of made up expectations.

I'm not the one doing the imagining here. If you object to the characterization of God that most Christians utilize, then by all means present and define the god that you believe in so that my response is less generalities and more specificities.

I only say it's the easy answer because it's the biblical and religious historical answer, so I didn't have to come up with it.

Then your greivence of "man made" quotes applies here too.

What I would start with would be we have no understanding of things in the same way as Him. Conflict and struggle brings out character in a person that they might need before they die. After all, in the context of the Christian God, what is a life of less than 100 years compared to eternity? Just a speck of time.

God could just as easily create us with that character if it's so essential, just as He created us with a heart, eyes, a brain, language, and survival instincts, which are also essential. It is said he wrote things on our heart, so one would think he should write only the good things.

A life is a precious thing and should be cherished and enjoyed and protected to the fullest. Thinking that it is some sort of entrance exam to an eternal heaven without any proof whatsoever that it is actually real is peak gullibility and a waste of said life.

 

[BigBooper]

I'm not the one doing the imagining here. If you object to the characterization of God that most Christians utilize, then by all means present and define the god that you believe in so that my response is less generalities and more specificities.

The Christian Bible version. I would recommend the modern ESV edition for most people if you're interested.

You will never get a satisfactory answer if you have to attribute natural attributes to a supernatural being, so why ask the question? I've seen your posts a lot and know you don't usually troll unless it's pretty obvious.

And as I said in my first post, there is no logical answer for faith. As the Bible itself says, faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. No one can give you the answer you're wanting.

Edit, In case I was unclear, I don't think you're trolling. You're just stuck on a point there is no answer to.

 

[Rentahamster]

The Christian Bible version. I would recommend the modern ESV edition for most people if you're interested.

"The Christian Bible version" means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. Multiple people of faith can read the same holy book and come up with many different interpretations and conclusions from the source material. If you have any specific characteristics or qualities or definitions, we can work with that, but the only descriptor is "The Christian Bible version", then there's no solution since my reading of the text is probably different from yours.

You will never get a satisfactory answer if you have to attribute natural attributes to a supernatural being, so why ask the question? I've seen your posts a lot and know you don't usually troll unless it's pretty obvious.

I asked the question because it was a response to a statement. Defining God using our natural reasoning is all we've got. The Bible is a natural book with natural words. If we need to access the supernatural to understand God, then there is no way to investigate further and verify that our faith is well placed or even justified. I'm not trolling. This is theological discussion.

And as I said in my first post, there is no logical answer for faith. As the Bible says, faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen. No one can give you the answer you're wanting.

Then a pure faith-based belief is not stable nor is it a good method to seek truth because you can believe anything and everything (both good and evil) if the only requirement is faith. I prefer tools that give more tangible and empirical results.

 

[O-N-E]

It was always tiny little kids with hideous diseases that got me. What kind of ‘creator’ gives a two year old bone cancer? What kind of plan can that be?

Without pain there is no joy. Your perspective is infinitely small compared to who you're complaining about. Things can happen for the most perfect reason, but still be unpleasant to you and others. In that case, it's natural to grieve. No-one says you should look on the bright side. There might not be a bright side for you, but you on your own are not the be-all and end-all of existence. Without even bringing the spiritual into the mix, there is an impossible amount about the universe we do not know. Why does a child experiencing great suffering make any sort of sense? Well, you can't do that kind of math in your head.

 

[BigBooper]

"The Christian Bible version" means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. Multiple people of faith can read the same holy book and come up with many different interpretations and conclusions from the source material. If you have any specific characteristics or qualities or definitions, we can work with that, but the only descriptor is "The Christian Bible version", then there's no solution since my reading of the text is probably different from yours.


I asked the question because it was a response to a statement. Defining God using our natural reasoning is all we've got. The Bible is a natural book with natural words. If we need to access the supernatural to understand God, then there is no way to investigate further and verify that our faith is well placed or even justified. I'm not trolling. This is theological discussion.


Then a pure faith-based belief is not stable nor is it a good method to seek truth because you can believe anything and everything (both good and evil) if the only requirement is faith. I prefer tools that give more tangible and empirical results.

That is a foundational part of Christianity and as far as I know all Abrahemic religions. Anyone can claim to be Christian and claim whatever they want about Christianity, that's true. But if they contradict Biblical teaching then they are wrong. The nature of God is supernatural and in part unknowable. In Isaiah 55:8-9 ESV "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."

I'm unfortunately getting too tired to continue this discussion, but I've enjoyed it. Thanks

 

[Halo is Back]

Seems to me that the majority of people who are no longer believers in God were treated wrongly by humans... Not God. The Bible doesn't say you'll go to Hell... At least mine doesn't which is closer in translation to the original texts. Hell doesn't exist. There's a few other things but anyway...

There's that.

Are you talking about people within the church? Because that would make sense to me. If we are talking about people in general that does not make sense to me. I've had a lot of Christians who told me suicide would bring me to hell because it was the ultimate sin. I always thought that was incredibly cruel of God to do that to someone.

 

[highrider]

This is stunningly arrogant. You’ve never been beaten up have you? But fr, you can’t prove or disprove the existence of anything dude in regards to higher power, you’re as clueless as the rest of us, but I suspect that’s a hard pill for you to swallow.

What’s arrogant about it? It’s what I think. And I think I’m correct.

This thread has so far been conducted very well, with people expressing their opinions without resorting to insulting others.

Maybe try that, instead of being such a douchebag?

The only douchebag move is your post dude, I just pointed it out. You seem like you’d be self aware enough to see how dismissive and almost mocking in tone you referred to anyone that didn’t follow your life choices, but apparently not

 

[FunkMiller]

You're assuming that God gives people afflictions. The Bible doesn't say anything like that. From the blind man to the man with leprosy to other illnesses, they're not blaming God.

I'm still not sure how "God gave these people a sickness" came to be when it's not in the Bible, Torah or Qur'an.

We know it's both a genetic and environmentally caused disease... That's nothing to do with God.

None of which makes any sense of course, because your god is supposed to be omnipotent and incapable of either making mistakes or not being in control of his creation.

Either he’s a god who watches over you and guides all of existence… in which case he’s a right bastard, or he doesn’t exist. I know which one sounds more realistic.

But hey, I’m not trying to change your mind. You have your position, I have mine.

 

[FunkMiller]

The only douchebag move is your post dude, I just pointed it out. You seem like you’d be self aware enough to see how dismissive and almost mocking in tone you referred to anyone that didn’t follow your life choices, but apparently not

I haven’t mocked anyone. If your belief is too fragile to be able to read an opinion that questions it without resorting to insults, that’s your problem.

 

[FunkMiller]

The easy answer is to say that man was given free will and used that to corrupt the perfect creation, thus bringing about man's own suffering and things like disease and death. God set the universe in motion with laws and rules and gave man free will to be more like God and the angels, and when man fell he caused a chain reaction of suffering.

The hard answer is, I don't know.

I‘m sorry my friend, but the hard answer is actually that he doesn’t exist.

All the questions, doubts and uncertainties that all religious people feel at one time or another are answered by that very simple truth. There is no god.

And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. Life & the universe are incredibly beautiful, strange, scary, and awe inspiring things, without the need for a god. I believe I’ve learned more, experienced more, and enjoyed my life more, simply because I’ve been free of religious doctrine all my life, and the shackles that come with it.

 

[Rentahamster]

That is a foundational part of Christianity and as far as I know all Abrahemic religions. Anyone can claim to be Christian and claim whatever they want about Christianity, that's true. But if they contradict Biblical teaching then they are wrong.

Contradicting Biblical teaching is quite easy. There are loads of contradictions in the Bible.

The nature of God is supernatural and in part unknowable. In Isaiah 55:8-9 ESV "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."

That may very well be true, but other than old texts and stories, there's nothing to substantiate the validity of that claim. It sounds exactly like what an organization would say in order to avoid justifying its own existence.

I'm unfortunately getting too tired to continue this discussion, but I've enjoyed it. Thanks

As have I. Good night. Just remember your hard answer, "I don't know". That's right. None of us know, and the most prudent course of action would be to only accept it once you do know - because to do otherwise is how innocent people get conned.

 

[highrider]

I haven’t mocked anyone. If your belief is too fragile to be able to read an opinion that questions it without resorting to insults, that’s your problem.

Read your post. And no surprise you tried to tie my fragile belief of anything to it, as if you even know what that is. Idiot.

 

[Amiga]

simply because I’ve been free of religious doctrine all my life, and the shackles that come with it.

this is ultimately the real reason. not "logic/reasoning/science". some just want the blue pill.

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

That's not the easy answer. That's the nonsense answer people give when they try to rationalize why there's bad things in the world.

If you accept an omnipotent and omniscient God, you have to accept that He controls everything. I don't know what kind of god you believe in, but most people envision their god as an all powerful all knowing benevolent creator. That necessarily has to mean that God controls everything, so a concept like free will that is somehow out of God's control is contradictory. Alternatively, if these punishments are in fact God's will, then it is necessarily his intention and thus his responsibility and not very benevolent either.

I think if there's a God it cannot do logically impossible things, and logic may necessitate that anything that can exist exists, including unjust worlds. Also it may be that just as a particular sperm and egg needed to come together to make a particular individual be born, it may also be that a particular life history may be necessary for that individual to exist as well. Clearly without their life experiences, in addition to their genetics, an individual wouldn't be who they are.

Just as there are people born into uber wealth, some also having uber good health, while others may be born into uber poverty and uber bad health, even greater extremes in differences may exist. There may be individuals who exist in paradisiacal worlds and others that live in hellish worlds. Some may even be immortal within these worlds, forever experiencing wonders or tortures.

Heck it may even be that for every good feeling experienced somewhere it balances out with a negative feeling being felt elsewhere, thus balancing net feelings into zero.

 

[Mossybrew]

I stick with agnostic. There's no evidence that any god exists, so I don't believe in the idea. But, it can't be disproven either, so I cannot say for certain "there is no god" - for all I know we were created by an immortal alien that is basically a god, and he's sitting back like The Watcher just enjoying watching his little experiment unfold.

 

[lukilladog]

I think if there's a God it cannot do logically impossible things, and logic may necessitate that anything that can exist exists, including unjust worlds. Also it may be that just as a particular sperm and egg needed to come together to make a particular individual be born, it may also be that a particular life history may be necessary for that individual to exist as well. Clearly without their life experiences, in addition to their genetics, an individual wouldn't be who they are.

Just as there are people born into uber wealth, some also having uber good health, while others may be born into uber poverty and uber bad health, even greater extremes in differences may exist. There may be individuals who exist in paradisiacal worlds and others that live in hellish worlds. Some may even be immortal within these worlds, forever experiencing wonders or tortures.

Heck it may even be that for every good feeling experienced somewhere it balances out with a negative feeling being felt elsewhere, thus balancing net feelings into zero.

The concept of god is ilogical itself, we have no right to infere that a mind can exist beyond space and time.

 

[lukilladog]

Seems to me that the majority of people who are no longer believers in God were treated wrongly by humans... Not God. The Bible doesn't say you'll go to Hell... At least mine doesn't which is closer in translation to the original texts. Hell doesn't exist. There's a few other things but anyway...

There's that.

What do you mean by "treated wrongly"?. Because everybody has been treated unfairly at some point, and the ones criminally abused don´t seem to become atheists regularly. Furthermore, humans are not the only source of evil, and it doesn´t make sense that an all loving god would be willing to remove the gift of faith from people that are suffering, neither by intervention or as a result of his original plan. That is why apologists come up with the arguments like we were never true believers or we lost our faith as a result of our own acts... which are more in line with the principle that we cannot chose what to believe on (but still inconsistent IMO).

 

[Omega Supreme Holopsicon]

The concept of god is ilogical itself, we have no right to infere that a mind can exist beyond space and time.

Depends on what you mean by God. Any entity that attains perfect security, infinite time and infinite computation, essentially becomes a God(as it can know everything and affect everything, if we assume digital physics is true). Even with only a fraction of that godlike beings can emerge.

Society seems likely to collapse, but if technology saves the day, it is likely we will face the dawn of posthumanity. Immortal beings with control of large simulated worlds. These beings would be godlike in all regards, they would have access to what the people in their simulation think, and do, and could alter thoughts and actions at will. The simulated worlds would be entirely under their control as would be all their inhabitants.

To say that a godly being cannot exist, is to say that you cannot attain perfect security, unlimited time and unlimited computation. We would have to know the true full laws of physics to know if there are limits to the power an individual can attain.

 

[Rentahamster]

I think if there's a God it cannot do logically impossible things, and logic may necessitate that anything that can exist exists, including unjust worlds. Also it may be that just as a particular sperm and egg needed to come together to make a particular individual be born, it may also be that a particular life history may be necessary for that individual to exist as well. Clearly without their life experiences, in addition to their genetics, an individual wouldn't be who they are.

Just as there are people born into uber wealth, some also having uber good health, while others may be born into uber poverty and uber bad health, even greater extremes in differences may exist. There may be individuals who exist in paradisiacal worlds and others that live in hellish worlds. Some may even be immortal within these worlds, forever experiencing wonders or tortures.

Heck it may even be that for every good feeling experienced somewhere it balances out with a negative feeling being felt elsewhere, thus balancing net feelings into zero.

All this is irrelevant if the topic of discussion is a god that can literally do anything.

 

[xrnzaaas]

Best case scenario is that we're in matrix or in a zoo created by the alien race.

 

[Rentahamster]

I stick with agnostic. There's no evidence that any god exists, so I don't believe in the idea. But, it can't be disproven either, so I cannot say for certain "there is no god" - for all I know we were created by an immortal alien that is basically a god, and he's sitting back like The Watcher just enjoying watching his little experiment unfold.

From a vocabulary point of view, that's essentially what "atheism" means. It means that you don't believe the claim that there is a god. "Agnostic" is centered around knowledge - either not knowing or not being able to know. This is slightly different.

"Atheism" is not the positive belief that there definitely is no god. If you are of the position that you cannot say for certain that "there is no god" and that you don't believe in the idea, that fits under the definition of "atheist".

 

[kurisu_1974]

This thread can now be merged with that God of War thread where the OP suggested a Christian setting.

 

[teezzy]

Catholic