hydrophilic attack
Member
I feel you
That first time you struggle through Demon's Souls is such a great gaming memory
Still the GOAT
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Are Souls games too hard? Completion trophy percentages say "no"
- Thread starter hydrophilic attack
- Start date
I feel you
That first time you struggle through Demon's Souls is such a great gaming memory
Still the GOAT
I would argue that the high completion %'s for Soulsborne games reflect how good the games are at drawing players in, and keeping them engaged all the way to the end, rather than a reflection of the difficulty. Or maybe the challenging difficulty contributes to why people remain engaged and want to complete these games.
I think most developers would be ecstatic if players were so engaged that 30-50% completed their game. In other words, I don't think the completion data is a reliable indicator of how easy or hard these games are.
I think most developers would be ecstatic if players were so engaged that 30-50% completed their game. In other words, I don't think the completion data is a reliable indicator of how easy or hard these games are.
Imp the Dimp
Member
More skilled players gravitate towards it while people aware of their lack of patience, skill, whatever will probably abstain. That said, I don't think the game needs an easy mode but your data is obviously biased.
Tavernacle12
Member
I think this is probably it. The games are well known enough that people aren't going to try and play them if they don't have an intention of beating them.
D
Deleted member 325805
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think they are, they're overwhelming at first but when you slow down and stop playing it like DMC you'll do much better. BB was my first souls game and it was hard but so rewarding, I wiped on the last boss for over 2 hours before I finally killed it and it felt so good. It would be a shame if they ever made them easier.
hydrophilic attack
Member
I'm just presenting some (non-alternative!) facts for discussion and collecting them into one place
Even though it wouldn't hold up to scientific peer review (lol) I would still say that these numbers show that the games are not too hard for its audience. And the good sales numbers the games have been getting lately show that they really don't have to worry about shutting people out.
The success of Dark Souls and other "not super hard but not mind-numbingly easy" series is at least partly a response to a gaming market where coasting has become almost the norm. (Content tourism or whatever it's called now) There is an audience that wants to feel challenged, if only just a little bit more than usual.
Imp the Dimp
Member
Basically. It's a quick, lazy response in the vein of "don't touch my thing! Here's some numbers out of context!"
Also, people should quit suggesting summoning. Summoning is and always will be a dogshit way to play Souls because the AI is complete trash. Two targets utterly breaks the game for most bosses. Having a couple extra heals or taking less damage is a better way of balancing than "just stand behind the monster and whack away without them so much as looking at you the entire fight" which isn't engaging in any way.
j0hnnix
Gold Member
I wonder what are the stats on Nioh 
This could be souls games are becoming more and more mainstream while in the past they were for a niche group. Eventually people can overcome the hardest difficulty if and when they put their minds to it.
Lord's of the fallen though..... no one can beat bad.
This could be souls games are becoming more and more mainstream while in the past they were for a niche group. Eventually people can overcome the hardest difficulty if and when they put their minds to it.
Lord's of the fallen though..... no one can beat bad.
hydrophilic attack
Member
At least it is SOME KIND OF DATA backing up my point.
More than the "easy mode plz ;(" crowd has ever provided
Adam_Roman
Member
This is the achievement percentage of reaching the first bonfire on Steam.
http://steamcommunity.com/stats/211420/achievements/
I wonder what are the stats on Nioh
The single-player aspect of Nioh is arguably easier than some/all Souls games. The combat and systems are more forgiving than you'd think. Main an axe or polearm and watch as the human bosses and enemies stagger under your madness. Grasp magic/ninjutsu and just chill as fictional Feudal Japan burns.
j0hnnix
Gold Member
I agree but many would drop as soon as the Tachibana fight. The axe/polearm was the easy mode.
Wesley-Sigma
Member
They're too easy now.
hydrophilic attack
Member
This is the achievement percentage of reaching the first bonfire on Steam.
http://steamcommunity.com/stats/211420/achievements/
I always knew the PC crowd were casuls.
Seriously though, I guess that has to do with some other factor? Could it be related to the PC version being in such an abysmal state at launch? Or has it been bundled a bunch? The corresponding Steam achievement in III has 87.4%. And 43.6% went on to beat the penultimate boss, which is not all that much lower than on PS4
Imp the Dimp
Member
Game is long as hell and longer than any Souls I played (too long even). That could drag the stats down.
DaS 3 was not easier than any other Souls game. Hell, I'd argue it had the roughest main story bosses in the series.
People decide if a game is for them pretty quickly.
This is the achievement percentage of reaching the first bonfire on Steam.
http://steamcommunity.com/stats/211420/achievements/
Affeinvasion
Member
I don't even attempt them anymore. I need baby games like elite dangerous and Europa universalis IV.
Maxey
Member
To be fair, it only sort of proves that a high percentage of players who bought the game will commit to the games and beat them.
It doesn't really add much to the discussion of people who'd like the option to have it play easier for their enjoyment. Their reasoning for that has little to do with what you're trying to prove.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Well, it means that if you ever bought one and are complaining about them being too hard for you, it's more your fault than the game's
Wesley-Sigma
Member
I don't know why you feel that way.
Funnily enough, and as mentioned before in a way, BB actually patched in NPC summons later on. I've tried them and they're pretty resilient. Not to mention the DLC gives you access to absurdly powerful weapons very early on, but you'd still have to buy it...
Dark Souls 3 is probably the third to fifth (?) Souls-type most people have played. At that point, the mixture of familiarity + improvements in accessibility/quality of life over the various games could make it seem like the easiest. Maybe it is, I dunno.
Indeed, as to my previous post, they already have an easy mode in every game anyway. They can make it even easier by running a magic build in most games.
Game had GFWL for 2.5 years before becoming a steamworks title.
hydrophilic attack
Member
I would agree that they are objectively harder. But for me they were very easy due to having been trained by the previous games. But for a new player, they are definitely harder. Compare the amount of boss HP between games. It has consistently increased as the meta-series has continued, and the boss move-sets have gotten progressively more varied
Maxey
Member
Absolutely, however what they're arguing for is that they should have the option for it to be easier to play, so they can still experience a game they're interested in without the intended challenge.
I understand their points tho, maybe they want to look at the game's assets at their own leisure without worrying about having to fight enemies or just want to know what all the fuss is about after all. There are many reasons.
TheTylerRob
Member
But what percentage of Souls players can do a shoryuken?
^ This.
Maxey
Member
Weltall Zero
Member
You guys know that myth is debunked in the OP, right?
Also pretty interesting how you think self-selection only biases Dark Souls' percentages, as if other games were bought at random by people that didn't know a thing about them. News flash: people who buy MGSV probably like MGS games too, and yet look at the percentages.
If there's any bias in these results, it's actually stacked against Dark Souls games, as they are longer than many if not most of the other games in the OP. That is the other major factor that governs whether people give up on a game, besides engagement and difficulty.
hydrophilic attack
Member
But playing a dumbed down version wouldn't show them that. That is not the intended experience. That would not show them why these games are loved.
not me
Apparently it depends on how many Souls players are currently playing Street Fighter using an XB1 d-pad
Maxey
Member
Backlogging might be widespread, especially once it hit $5-6 during a sale.
Weltall Zero
Member
The irony is so thick you could cut it with a chainsaw.
Well, don't keep us waiting! Please reveal to us this game-changing context! Unless, of course, it's just that "but only hardcore gamers buy them" debunked in the OP itself.
So you don't just want an easy mode, you want an easy mode perfectly tailored to Gator86's skill level. But it's Dark Souls fans that are entitled, gotcha.
But playing a dumbed down version wouldn't show them that. That is not the intended experience. That would not show them why these games are loved.
not me
That's always the argument, and it still rings hollow. Tons of people are up in arms because they're worried other players won't get the "intended experience", when in actuality it feels like the community wanting to be exclusionary.
NoctisVsStar
Member
Analog, dpad or stick? In my sleep with all three no shortcuts bs.
You say its hollow yet for the past 5 games in the series the devs have yet to make an alternative mode or even said that they want to do one but couldn't. At this point if From wanted to do it they would have in the past 8 years of making the series.
It's really not.
Souls games aren't that hard, there are harder. An easy mode more or less exists in the form of NPC summons. I've used them during replays, only to feel like I cheated myself out of the fun of the actual game (the bosses, at least). Didn't get the intended experience, not enough.