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[Bartski]

Having noticed plenty of disagreement and discussion in regards to something I see as a very interesting aspect of modern videogames design philosophy, I'd like to invite you all to voice your opinion on it!

This should be interesting.


Which camp are you in?


CAMP 1:

Arcade and Fun - games should never try to emulate real-world and should never shy away from reminding the player they're games.

- Moment to moment fun, responsive gameplay is king.
- The key to immersion is never taking away control from the player.
- Realism is the antithesis of fun.
- The player needs to feel they're playing a game, rather than watching a movie.
- Games should never waste any time of the player in favor of keeping the game world coherent.
- Real-world stories can sometimes work combined with arcade aesthetic, however, they're usually irrelevant and incompatible with key strengths of modern-day gaming.

Recent examples: Doom Eternal, Devil May Cry 5, Nioh 2


CAMP 2:

Grounded & Realistic - games should do their best to emulate real-world if they try to tell real-world stories.

- Maintaining verisimilitude in gameplay is king.
- Devs should take the challenge and develop responsive interesting mechanics without breaking it.
- Sacrificing moment to moment "fun" and sometimes frustrating the player achieving this goal is ok.
- Games can and should strive for being audiovisual interactive experiences and evoking a variety of emotions rather than pastime activity comfort food.
- Such games should be as cinematic as possible while staying as interactive as possible.

Recent examples: Red Dead Redemption 2, The Last Of Us Part 2


CAMP 3

I like both - Why can't we have both? Such different design directions are perfectly viable, resulting in games of different qualities I enjoy, it's a pointless faux contention.
[EDIT way too late: aka how-not-to-do-a-poll-101 camp...]


If the first thing coming to your mind is that the examples I'm giving are shit - well these are the games I actually played and imo work well for what I'm trying to say. Feel free to give yours. I consider games like Ghost of Tsushima or Death Stranding an interesting middle-ground and I deliberately excluded them. I understand most votes should and probably will land on option 3, I have decided to make this thread however after seeing plenty of voices (here and on Reddit) showing strong preference towards options 1 and 2, people appreciating vs standing in opposition to certain modern trends in gaming.

What do you think?

 

[Walter Matthau]

 

[GHG]

Happy to have both so I can play whatever I feel like dependant on my mood.

My primary concern is whether the game in question is high quality or not. If it's not high quality then it can fuck off, regardless of which category it falls into.

 

[INC]

Depends on the game

Racing arcade and fun

Shooters grounded and realistic

 

[kunonabi]

Both as it depends on the genre.

 

[Bartski]

Yeah.. I have a feeling giving the option to vote „both” shot this poll in the foot

 

[Danjin44]

I personally more attracted to arcade and over the top gameplay over realistic/grounded.

 

[Husky]

I have room for plenty of both in my heart, but when asked for one's preference, "both" is the coward's answer
I'd say I prefer realism. It's easier for me to be immersed when the presentation and interactivity of the game world somewhat reflects my own, and I value immersion highly.

 

[Husky]

Yeah.. I have a feeling giving the option to vote „both” shot this poll in the foot

yeah man, questions of preference should always exclude "both" as an option, and you should always scold the responders in advance to prevent them from answering so
No one's gonna discuss the merits of each choice if they don't gotta choose

 

[Esca]

I don't mind both adults but you had me at fun

 

[Laconian Sword]

Seeing this is like returning to your family after a trip abroad. I'm home.

 

[Bartski]

yeah man, questions of preference should always exclude "both" as an option, and you should always scold the responders in advance to prevent them from answering so
No one's gonna discuss the merits of each choice if they don't gotta choose

lol yeah I totally fucked it up... well, there goes my first poll on gaf

I've seen a lot of opposition from CAMP1 towards CAMP2, in the context of some trends that seem to be detrimental to current-day gaming according to many... I sometimes find it rather irrational.

I have listed the most common arguments I see in the OP trying to stay neutral.
Personally I'm a huge fan and supporter of grounded game world design... I also hate calling it "realism", it's not about that imo and I don't think we have a good word for it yet...
In so many ways it just takes so much more tech and effort to pull it off, I immensely respect devs that decide going down that path and I hope next gen we'll see the bar rising.

Zero votes for CAMP2 lol so let me be the one to show some balls, even though as a gamer the answer is obviously BOTH

PICK A SIDE!

 

[martino]

i game for fun so...
also Camp 2 is failling hard at the last point you list for it.

 

[John Mullins]

There are good and bad examples of both..... so it totally depends.

If something feels very unbelievable then it turns me off, even if it is arcade but arcade does not have to mean ungrounded, there has to be some sort of believability there, the underpinnings of physics. Wipeout is not real, but you can feel it.

GTA V car handling is arcadey but not satisfying at all. San Andreas feels more real AND more fun.

DIrt Rally feels amazing but I loved GRID also.

Mud/Snow Runner is amazing and you barely go about 10mph yet GTA V is a bore at 100mph.

 

[Danjin44]

I know lots of people get much more immersed in more “realistic” games but for me it’s opposite. My biggest reason is that every game has imperfections, because it’s being made by people but in games that going for hyper realistic that imperfection becomes waaaay more noticeable and even to point of takes you out of the experience.

 

[brian0057]

I think using "Arcade and Fun" gives the wrong impression that Grounded and Realistic can't be fun (even if you didn't mean it).

The more realistic bullet physics and sniping from the higher difficulties of Sniper Elite are more fun than the arcade pablum Call of Duty calls sniping.
The survival aspects of Breath of the Wild are much more fun to engage with than those present in the sea of mediocrity on Steam with cursed tags such as "Survival" or "Early Access".

 

[Bartski]

i game for fun so...
also Camp 2 is failling hard at the last point you list for it.

dude I AM CAMP 2

well not really but for the purpose of this poll I'll bite the bullet

What I meant by the last point listed is something like the last God of War... it's more about camera techniques and ways to portray action keeping it as interactive as possible

 

[GymWolf]

I like both.

I can switch between MHW and tlou2 and having fun with both.

 

[martino]

dude I AM CAMP 2

well not really but for the purpose of this poll I'll bite the bullet

What I meant by the last point listed is something like the last God of War... it's more about camera techniques and ways to portray action keeping it as interactive as possible

good example and to me camera is a flaw in this game.
to me it's a forced cinematic choice making it a lesser game.
i know it's not popular opinion but it's mine.

 

[Bartski]

I think using "Arcade and Fun" gives the wrong impression that Grounded and Realistic can't be fun (even if you didn't mean it).

The more realistic bullet physics and sniping from the higher difficulties of Sniper Elite are more fun than the arcade pablum Call of Duty calls sniping.
The survival aspects of Breath of the Wild are much more fun to engage with than those present in the sea of mediocrity on Steam with cursed tags such as "Survival" or "Early Access".

I absolutely agree. I was referring to the common rhetoric I see here and on reddit. There were plenty of threads discussing the meaning of "fun" in games in this context and that's where we often see it understood as something at odds with "realism"

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

I love both, but arcade-style games are easier to slip into a groove if you have limited time. Half of the time in "grounded, realistic" games is spent on exposition, cutscenes, checking quest logs, listening to audio snippets that you fouonds lying around, and other non-gaming activities.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

Arcade because for the most part "realistic" games move like molasses.

 

[Bartski]

I know lots of games people are much more immersed in more “realistic” games but for me it’s opposite. My biggest reason is that every game has imperfections, because it’s being made by people but in games that going for hyper realistic that imperfection becomes waaaay more noticeable and even to point of takes you out of the experience.

I hear you. This is why games taking place in fantastical worlds, with stylized graphics etc are often totally free from any of these issues as they make you operate at a totally different level of suspension of disbelief.

 

[bender]

Reality is not fun. We are trapped in it. Send help.

 

[Danjin44]

I hear you. This is why games taking place in fantastical worlds, with stylized graphics etc are often totally free from any of these issues as they make you operate at a totally different level of suspension of disbelief.

I play games to get immerse in unbelievable worlds, I don't need for game to be hyper realistic or simulation in order to get me immerse. I was highly immersed in DQXI's world even though that game has very cartoony artstyle, but I like the world and the characters and thats all I need.

 

[Bartski]

I don't need for game to be hyper realistic or simulation in order to get me immerse.

yeah me neither, some of my favorite titles I played this year work this way.

But then I fire up something like CoD WW2 and two missions in I see my AI compagnion getting repeatedly shot in the head while throwing me medkits, totally by design. Quit, uninstall.

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

RDR2 and TLOUP2 in the same category is an insult to TLOUP2, one is a game so far up it's own ass about being a cowboy sim with mission design, controls and AI from 2 generations ago that punishes you for trying to have fun.

The other is a very fun stealth survival TPS game with great AI that's being shat on by the other side of that annoying coin of SJW-ism for being "woke" and not "having sexy girls".

 

[DelireMan7]

I usually don't like realism in any medium I consume (videogame, TV, movies, book).

But I am fine with a realistic setting if it's doesn't completely reflect our world. For me Last of us is not realistic since there is "infected". On the other hand, I have no interest in GTA since it's basically our world.

I still voted Arcade and fun since I prefer unrealistic settings.

 

[Woggleman]

The best games are the ones that strike the right balance. TLOU2 to me achieves that. It feels grounded and weighty but it is as smooth as butter to control. Also the infected just look grotesque and horrifying.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Depends on the game. I like plenty of stuff that falls on the more grounded side but prescious little on the hardcore simulation end, but on the flip I am pretty cool with all the way arcade.