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[Manstructiclops]

Sweeney has been vocal and against this kind of shit for years. (UWP)
It's just that now he's a billionaire and has financial clout to actually fight it.

Something like steam would never be allowed today, It's actually quite a malicious application all things considered with its file permissions. But we don't care, because we're all adults and we don't need big brother megacorps to tell us what we can or can't do with the hardware and operating systems we paid for.

We're on a videogame forum... This shit goes as far back as Activision vs Atari.

The fact that people freely throw around dystopian terms like 'walled garden' without batting an eyelid is precisely why epic needs to win this lawsuit.

 

[ManaByte]

The fact that people freely throw around dystopian terms like 'walled garden' without batting an eyelid is precisely why epic needs to win this lawsuit.

When even Microsoft is making their own Linux kernel, then you know it’s past time that the walled garden idea needs to die.

 

[lock2k]

Let's see...

Epic sucks. Fortnite sucks and... Apple fucking sucks. No horse in this race. lol

Seriously though. What is happening?

 

[Shrap]

Sweeney has been vocal and against this kind of shit for years. (UWP)
It's just that now he's a billionaire and has financial clout to actually fight it.

Something like steam would never be allowed today, It's actually quite a malicious application all things considered with its file permissions. But we don't care, because we're all adults and we don't need big brother megacorps to tell us what we can or can't do with the hardware and operating systems we paid for.

We're on a videogame forum... This shit goes as far back as Activision vs Atari.

The fact that people freely throw around dystopian terms like 'walled garden' without batting an eyelid is precisely why epic needs to win this lawsuit.

Yeah, luckily we have Epic Game Store... Sweeney is really fighting the good fight... No malicious software in EGS...

Also, it's good that he fights what he considers anti-competitive practices by paying people off to remove games from other stores so customers can only buy said games from his store. That's true competitive spirit right there!

 

[John Day]

People complain about walled gardens. We had Windows on mobile, consumers dropped it. We had PalmOS, consumers dropped it. We had Blackberrys, consumers dropped it. On and On.

Consumers themselves led the market to this.

 

[rockyt]

Epic arrogance and ego got to big since doing their own platform on pc and all the back room deals. They got greedy getting a taste of not having to pay royalties on their platform. Apple and Google have the right to do whatever they want. They provided the platform/store and infrastructure so of course they are going take a percentage of profit. Epic should spend the money/investment in making their own smart device to have their own platform/store to sell.

I am not taking sides. It is just how I see it.

 

[ManaByte]

People complain about walled gardens. We had Windows on mobile, consumers dropped it. We had PalmOS, consumers dropped it. We had Blackberrys, consumers dropped it. On and On.

Consumers themselves led the market to this.

Android isn't a walled garden and there are more Android phones out there than iPhones.

 

[John Day]

Android isn't a walled garden and there are more Android phones out there than iPhones.

That's my point! There are options out there, there will always be competition in the mobile market.

 

[renzolama]

This shit is hilarious

 

[MayauMiao]

Epic burned

 

[MastaKiiLA]

I remember being on the side of MS when it came to Windows and the anti-trust claims brought by Netscape. I can admit I was wrong then, although IE is still the only browser that comes built into Windows. Now, I'm very much in favor of allowing more diversity in marketplaces, and I understand that Epic winning this fight can benefit many of their competitors and peers. I prefer a more open platform, which is why I use Android, but even the Play store has some restrictive policies. I'm rooting for Epic. I don't have an opinion about them as a company, one way or another. I just want to see more flexibility being provided for developers, without having to pay Apple and Google for someone else's work. If the fees weren't so high, I think there would have been less pushback.

 

[Bojanglez]

Epic should have first tested Apple's direct payment policy by just selling a physical product (a piece of paper that by default is not posted) and have the digital good act as a receipt.

 

[BackBackPunch]

Sweeney has been vocal and against this kind of shit for years. (UWP)
It's just that now he's a billionaire and has financial clout to actually fight it.

Something like steam would never be allowed today, It's actually quite a malicious application all things considered with its file permissions. But we don't care, because we're all adults and we don't need big brother megacorps to tell us what we can or can't do with the hardware and operating systems we paid for.

We're on a videogame forum... This shit goes as far back as Activision vs Atari.

The fact that people freely throw around dystopian terms like 'walled garden' without batting an eyelid is precisely why epic needs to win this lawsuit.

Epic is a piece of shit company, just like all the rest of the big corporations. The Epic Store is a horrible, intrusive platform, and no one in their right mind would actually WANT to install that crap on their PC. Fortnite is a mediocre game that has made millions of dollars by selling emotes to 13 year olds that are created from dance moves that Epic stole from other artists. They are not the moral high ground. They are just another steaming turd in a pile of steaming turds.

 

[TwiztidElf]

Corporate greed knows no bounds. Both of them making money hand over fist and it's still not enough.

 

[phil_t98]

Corporate greed knows no bounds. Both of them making money hand over fist and it's still not enough.

Epic greed, apple or google not changed any conditions to get more money. Epic did

 

[Tumle]

the surreal thing in all this, is that it is a company with a major shareholder being a Chinese communist company, who is fighting to make IOS more open.. and a free market company from a democratic country fighting to control what people can and cant do on a product they produce..

 

[WelshBluebird]

Android isn't a walled garden and there are more Android phones out there than iPhones.

Part of the lawsuit against Google is specifically about how Android isn't as much of an open platform as you may think though, because of how essential the Google ecosystem is to users and how Google use that fact to bully OEM's.

If you are a third party app store, or want to distribute an app outside of an app store, you are put at a disadvantage.

• Google specifically block some OEMs from including 3rd party app stores in a lot of cases. Epic themselves were involved in some fun where OEM's were told if they wanted to continue including Google services they couldn't bundle the Epic Game Store.
• Google specifically force some OEMs to put the Google Apps, including the Play Store, in more prominent positions on the home screen. Ever wondered why many phones these days come with a "Google" app folder?
• For sideloading, you specifically have to go into the settings and make changes, which give pretty scary looking warnings to the user. Now, I know what I am doing and so can accept that risk. But do you think that little Timmy aged 12, or his mum, is going to understand in the same way as I do? Of course not - they are either going to just click through any warnings, or be scared off by those warnings. It's why Epic game back to the Play Store in the first place!

 

[raduque]

So theyre off mobile completely.

Nah, they're still on Samsung's Galaxy Apps store, as well as a downloadable APK from Epic. IIRC, when Fortnite came out, it was actually not on the Play Store at all.

I'll take Windows 10s for a thousand.

You can turn that off permanently though. There's no Apple-provided way to bypass the App Store.

 

[Victor Omega]

 

[Bunker Hosted]

Interesting to see that since we were arguing a page or two back in this thread; Apple has grown from a 1.7 TRILLION dollar marketcap, to now over 2.01 Trillion....

Easy 300 Billion in a few days

 

[GeorgPrime]

Two titans facing off. It's going to get interesting.

More like a real juggernaut wit an army of lawyers waiting for someone like epic gets attacked by a Chibi Titan that wants to be like apple

 

[FloatingIslands]

Epic's case reads as if a cookie maker is monopolistic because she doesn't let other cookie makers do cookies in her factory.

 

[gatti-man]

Sweeney has been vocal and against this kind of shit for years. (UWP)
It's just that now he's a billionaire and has financial clout to actually fight it.

Something like steam would never be allowed today, It's actually quite a malicious application all things considered with its file permissions. But we don't care, because we're all adults and we don't need big brother megacorps to tell us what we can or can't do with the hardware and operating systems we paid for.

We're on a videogame forum... This shit goes as far back as Activision vs Atari.

The fact that people freely throw around dystopian terms like 'walled garden' without batting an eyelid is precisely why epic needs to win this lawsuit.

I mean call me crazy but if someone designs, developed, promotes, and sells a platform they should be able to decide what works on it and what the terms are for said software to work. It’s a store front on their hardware. No one is forced to buy an iPhone and live in that ecosystem there are plenty of choices. I actually prefer it for all the benefits of free apps and compatibility.

Epic needs to lose immediately and take such a huge L no one else tries because if they win all exclusive digital store fronts will change for the worse including Nintendo, Sony and MS.

 

[Tomeru]

Epic needs to lose immediately and take such a huge L no one else tries because if they win all exclusive digital store fronts will change for the worse including Nintendo, Sony and MS.

Worse? How so?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

To be fair, Apple has every right to cut the cord off Epic.

Imagine going to Walmart to buy something and product on the shelf is sneakily done saying...... buy here for $10 for buy direct off our website for $8.

Pretty sure every retailer would tell them to fuck off. You want to direct customers to your own web site, fine. Get lost and do it yourself.

 

[diffusionx]

Something like steam would never be allowed today, It's actually quite a malicious application all things considered with its file permissions.

That's a weird thing to say considering EGS is at the very least as malicious if not significantly more so.

 

[Manstructiclops]

I mean call me crazy but if someone designs, developed, promotes, and sells a platform they should be able to decide what works on it and what the terms are for said software to work. It’s a store front on their hardware. No one is forced to buy an iPhone and live in that ecosystem there are plenty of choices. I actually prefer it for all the benefits of free apps and compatibility.

Epic needs to lose immediately and take such a huge L no one else tries because if they win all exclusive digital store fronts will change for the worse including Nintendo, Sony and MS.

They have, they did, they've been allowed to for over 15 years now, so much so that company has just reached a 2 trillion market cap valuation.

It's fought off all comers alongside google to a position where we're now at a perfect duopoly, which is almost as shitty for consumers as a monopoly. Both these companies will control our lives for the forseeable future.

The crocodile capitalist tears that they're just some plucky startups that haven't been allowed to profit from their innovation is way off, and about a decade passed its sell by date.

 

[gatti-man]

Worse? How so?

How wouldn’t it be worse? What incentive is there to keep up a store you can no longer dictate terms with? Quality of software will go down. Or why even offer a store at all if you’re forced to carry a competitors store you make no revenue off of? Or why even have a platform at all at that point.

They have, they did, they've been allowed to for over 15 years now, so much so that company has just reached a 2 trillion market cap valuation.

It's fought off all comers alongside google to a position where we're now at a perfect duopoly, which is almost as shitty for consumers as a monopoly. Both these companies will control our lives for the forseeable future.

The crocodile capitalist tears that they're just some plucky startups that haven't been allowed to profit from their innovation is way off, and about a decade passed its sell by date.

That’s cute you think market cap has something to do with Apples walled garden and not our country’s rampant quantative easing and money printing. Claiming stock price as some kind of metric of abuse is not relevant AT ALL. Do yourself a favor and look up Tencent’s market cap 625 billion

FYI there are phone makers that use their own OS and they suck. That’s why we have a duopoly. That’s why MS got kicked out of the cell market. Did you ever try a Microsoft phone? I know I did it wasn’t as good. That’s why we have a duopoly.

Spare me the socialist melodrama that companies should only be allowed a certain amount of profit for their products This isn’t a cancer treatment or some kind of right. These are luxury cell phones. Get over yourself.

 

[Lethal01]

Their both shitty.
But Epic winning wouldmean more money fr thousands of Devs.

So good luck to them.

 

[phil_t98]

Their both shitty.
But Epic winning wouldmean more money fr thousands of Devs.

So good luck to them.

Epic winning would also mean less secure payments for customers across a lot of apps

 

[Dane]

Sweeney has been vocal and against this kind of shit for years. (UWP)
It's just that now he's a billionaire and has financial clout to actually fight it.

Something like steam would never be allowed today, It's actually quite a malicious application all things considered with its file permissions. But we don't care, because we're all adults and we don't need big brother megacorps to tell us what we can or can't do with the hardware and operating systems we paid for.

We're on a videogame forum... This shit goes as far back as Activision vs Atari.

The fact that people freely throw around dystopian terms like 'walled garden' without batting an eyelid is precisely why epic needs to win this lawsuit.

I remember that with Windows 8, that SO is clearly designed for a tablet and it was horrid for a Desktop/Laptop, easily the worst i've ever use and I remember that issue, because Windows Store games were annoying to go through it's files and it was a very valid complain.

Remember when Sweeney made UE4 free and open source and one of the best engines that a non programmer could use? I do

Remember when he made assets of the previous games like Paragon and Infinity Blade available for use? I do

Remember when Epic used to make plenty of cool games? I do.

Everything was going so right until Epic decided to steal games from it's Steam release in the last minute, like Metro Exodus and Shenmue 3, that was a very fucking Xbox One Online DRM asshole move.

And then he started moneyhatting exclusives saying that it was the only way to beat Steam and people weren't happy at all, since he could have promoted the smaller cut and even lower base prices to attract more customers. Developers on Steam are not obliged to be locked for the store, they only release it there because of convenience and it's the only big one to accept DRM as GOG doesn't.

And now he sues Apple and Google because Fortnite was removed over a breaking the rules feature that was buying V-bucks wihtout paying the fees, and it seems that Epic was aware of that as they sued and even had an advert against Apple just very shortly after the ban. Google allows anyone to publish it's apps outside of Play Store, Fortnite for Android was for most of its time only downloadable on the website because Epic didn't want to pay the 30% cut and only had Fortnite in Playstore for the second time for just a few months. Apple owns iOS and it's hardwares.

Why he doesn't sue Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony who also have the big fee? Perhaps because Sony used on Days Gone, likely has more projects using it and even owns a small share of Epic, while Microsoft is one of the biggest U4 developers?

 

[FStubbs]

I remember that with Windows 8, that SO is clearly designed for a tablet and it was horrid for a Desktop/Laptop, easily the worst i've ever use and I remember that issue, because Windows Store games were annoying to go through it's files and it was a very valid complain.

Remember when Sweeney made UE4 free and open source and one of the best engines that a non programmer could use? I do

Remember when he made assets of the previous games like Paragon and Infinity Blade available for use? I do

Remember when Epic used to make plenty of cool games? I do.

Everything was going so right until Epic decided to steal games from it's Steam release in the last minute, like Metro Exodus and Shenmue 3, that was a very fucking Xbox One Online DRM asshole move.

And then he started moneyhatting exclusives saying that it was the only way to beat Steam and people weren't happy at all, since he could have promoted the smaller cut and even lower base prices to attract more customers. Developers on Steam are not obliged to be locked for the store, they only release it there because of convenience and it's the only big one to accept DRM as GOG doesn't.

And now he sues Apple and Google because Fortnite was removed over a breaking the rules feature that was buying V-bucks wihtout paying the fees, and it seems that Epic was aware of that as they sued and even had an advert against Apple just very shortly after the ban. Google allows anyone to publish it's apps outside of Play Store, Fortnite for Android was for most of its time only downloadable on the website because Epic didn't want to pay the 30% cut and only had Fortnite in Playstore for the second time for just a few months. Apple owns iOS and it's hardwares.

Why he doesn't sue Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony who also have the big fee? Perhaps because Sony used on Days Gone, likely has more projects using it and even owns a small share of Epic, while Microsoft is one of the biggest U4 developers?

Remember, Epic isn't really "Epic" anymore. It's Tencent. Tencent is fighting a larger war here, and Steam was phase 1, mobile platforms were phase 2.. I think you'd see them move against the console platforms in phase 3. Since Sony owns 1.5% (actually, considerably less since we're talking about Tencent, not Epic) and has that promise that UE5 will run best on Playstation 5, it would be interesting to see what happens there. They could try with Nintendo, but Nintendo would tell them to take a hike like they did EA, and then Epic would drop all UE support for Nintendo - which would get interesting.

 

[Tomeru]

How wouldn’t it be worse? What incentive is there to keep up a store you can no longer dictate terms with? Quality of software will go down. Or why even offer a store at all if you’re forced to carry a competitors store you make no revenue off of? Or why even have a platform at all at that point.

Not sure if serious.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Apple is completely justified. They've been allowing Epic to use the IOS Store to sell their games and in exchange received 30% of Epic's profits, which I don't think is too much.

 

[Magic Carpet]

So when can I buy the Epic phone. I'm waiting to see their latest model with just enough horsepower and battery life for a weekend of playing. Just enter your credit card info and send all you micropayments strait to epics bank account.

 

[gatti-man]

Not sure if serious.

Not sure if has any idea why businesses do things.

 

[Barakov]

I hate Apple. But I hate Epic more. I hope they tear each other to pieces.

 

[Same ol G]

Can someone make an attack on titan gif showing Epic being eaten by Apple.
Also all the people calling this a fight between giants this is a giant taking on a titan.

 

[Pallas]

Honestly I don’t care too much for either company, but I have to at least give some props to Apple for cutting off an obvious cash cow and not bowing to the pressure.

I know Apple is disgustingly filthy rich but Fortnite was probably one of their biggest sources of revenue on the App Store.

 

[Tomeru]

Not sure if has any idea why businesses do things.

 

[Hostile_18]

Epic winning would also mean less secure payments for customers across a lot of apps

That would 100% not be the case.

A: Secure payments are hardly expensive to develop, maybe 1% of a 30% cut is going on the infrastructure to enable the purchase.

B: If a big store didn't do everything in their power to protect their customers details they would be fined millions.

C: If they lost customer confidence they would lose the majority of their customer base over night.

 

[llien]

That's a fairly naive take on what "apple practices" actually mean.
In this thread in particular, when we have Apple taking revenge and having collateral damage of countless small guys, who's only guilt is having used Unreal Engine.

'm rooting for Apple. Its their phone, their platform, and their store. Epic broke Apple ToS and deserves what's coming to them.

You are posting in a thread about unrelated set of tools, that affect much more people, than just those at Epic, ,being banned in retaliation, Dumbo.

No horse in this race

It's like comparing a shoplifter to a serial murderer and concluding that both are evil.
Apple had pushed shit beyond anything imaginable.

Apple has managed to be fined (anti-trust) when competing with fucking amazon, who had 90% of the respective market. Imagine just how filthy you need to play to achieve that.

decided to steal games from it's Steam release

The butthurt and PTS about installing some fucking free piece of software that PC gamers roam about is unbearable.

 

[phil_t98]

That would 100% not be the case.

A: Secure payments are hardly expensive to develop, maybe 1% of a 30% cut is going on the infrastructure to enable the purchase.

B: If a big store didn't do everything in their power to protect their customers details they would be fined millions.

C: If they lost customer confidence they would lose the majority of their customer base over night.

How many rogue apps will start to appear with payment options , with google and apple now you have one payment system which is secure. Same Mitch Microsoft and sony. What we got works.

Also the big store has done everything in their power to protect us by having one payment system for all, the payment system within the new app is what’s not secure and can be mistreated by rogue developers

 

[Hostile_18]

How many rogue apps will start to appear with payment options , with google and apple now you have one payment system which is secure. Same Mitch Microsoft and sony. What we got works.

Also the big store has done everything in their power to protect us by having one payment system for all, the payment system within the new app is what’s not secure and can be mistreated by rogue developers

Ah sorry I was talking about the 30% cut been lowered rather than loads of different payment systems.

I agree but I guess also that's what reviews are for, number of downloads listed and the report function etc. Dosnt seem like a perfect solution but buying off Ebay is much the same in that you have to trust the seller and if not your covered by the policies of the platform holder.

Still seems strange Epic have taken a beef with mobile phone platforms first. Both Sony and Microsoft take 30% as well, but I guess that would interfere with their other business interests too much.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

That's a fairly naive take on what "apple practices" actually mean.
In this thread in particular, when we have Apple taking revenge and having collateral damage of countless small guys, who's only guilt is having used Unreal Engine.

Epic started a war. People who use the Unreal engine are Epic customers and as such are not unrelated to the war. Epic picked a fight, and there are consequences to picking fights. If you are not prepared to take hits then stay out of the ring.

 

[kuncol02]

That would 100% not be the case.

A: Secure payments are hardly expensive to develop, maybe 1% of a 30% cut is going on the infrastructure to enable the purchase.

B: If a big store didn't do everything in their power to protect their customers details they would be fined millions.

C: If they lost customer confidence they would lose the majority of their customer base over night.

12% epic takes in their store in some cases was not enough to pay for payment provider..

 

[Hostile_18]

12% epic takes in their store in some cases was not enough to pay for payment provider..

Am I missing something a payment system that costs a business 12% of transaction cost?

 

[Trimesh]

12% epic takes in their store in some cases was not enough to pay for payment provider..

I have to call bullshit on that. Typical interchange fees - even for a small merchant - are going to be somewhere between 1% and 5%. If they can't get a better deal than 12% with the volume they are doing then I would start looking for just who is getting the kickbacks.

 

[llien]

Epic started a war.

In other words you are bright enough to justify pretty much anything coming from Apple, and that T&C bit, that is so laughably irrelevant in this case, was just a lame excuse.
Now "it's a war" so any shit is justified.
Amusing.

 

[kuncol02]

Am I missing something a payment system that costs a business 12% of transaction cost?

I have to call bullshit on that. Typical interchange fees - even for a small merchant - are going to be somewhere between 1% and 5%. If they can't get a better deal than 12% with the volume they are doing then I would start looking for just who is getting the kickbacks.

Welcome to third world. World don't ends on US and Europe. There was big discusion about that when epic store was created.