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An objective look at the games shown, PS5 and XBox Series X game showcases

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Hunnybun

Member
Interesting. I went to check the stream and they go from GT7 trailer, to Ratchet trailer, to a short speech from someone at Insomniac (who does NOT mention wether the footage is in-game, in-engine or whatever) to some more footage. I might have missed so please kindly provide a timestamp for the statement.



I don't think YOU know how trailers are made: the moment devs were able to plug higher quality assets than possible, ramp up effects and then queue actions to be rendered by the engine offline like one renders a video, pre-release game footage became inmediatly suspect. It's like you live in a world were Andromeda, Anthem, The Witcher 3 or the bajillion times Ubi did it never happened. Here, you can have a look for yourself: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=video+game+downgrade



That's what you don't understand. You only need the most basic of support to use the real hardware to render out video. As soon as you get a dev environment up and running you can use the cinematic tools of your engine to throw in assets and then queue in actions to create believable video. At that point you don't need game logic, you don't need physics, you don't need anything else. It's like using your computer to render video: do you need any "game" to load up 3d assets animate them?

Why do you think companies keep coming up with terms like "in-engine", "in-game", "target gameplay", "representative gameplay" and so on? Because they can't say it's gameplay because it isn't.

Don't believe me? Go to youtube and search for "Unreal sequencer tutorial". Or if you want a past example from a Sony console announcement I think it was this Heavenly Sword trailer that famously was rendered at 1fps on a devkit.

Right at the start of the stream it states something like "all gameplay from this point forward is running on PlayStation 5 hardware"

From memory it's right before the Spider-Man trailer.
 

Tulipanzo

Member
Interesting. I went to check the stream and they go from GT7 trailer, to Ratchet trailer, to a short speech from someone at Insomniac (who does NOT mention wether the footage is in-game, in-engine or whatever) to some more footage. I might have missed so please kindly provide a timestamp for the statement.

I don't think YOU know how trailers are made: the moment devs were able to plug higher quality assets than possible, ramp up effects and then queue actions to be rendered by the engine offline like one renders a video, pre-release game footage became inmediatly suspect. It's like you live in a world were Andromeda, Anthem, The Witcher 3 or the bajillion times Ubi did it never happened. Here, you can have a look for yourself: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=video+game+downgrade

That's what you don't understand. You only need the most basic of support to use the real hardware to render out video. As soon as you get a dev environment up and running you can use the cinematic tools of your engine to throw in assets and then queue in actions to create believable video. At that point you don't need game logic, you don't need physics, you don't need anything else. It's like using your computer to render video: do you need any "game" to load up 3d assets animate them?

Why do you think companies keep coming up with terms like "in-engine", "in-game", "target gameplay", "representative gameplay" and so on? Because they can't say it's gameplay because it isn't.

Don't believe me? Go to youtube and search for "Unreal sequencer tutorial". Or if you want a past example from a Sony console announcement I think it was this Heavenly Sword trailer that famously was rendered at 1fps on a devkit.
Your problem is that you seem to assume all devs are out to trick you, instead of working through marketing and development timelines to give a representative look at their games.

Of course everything can be faked, but the cool thing about that is that you can actually know about it by studying the footage, and using available information.
An extended gameplay segment, or a trailer captured in game, running on platform, leave far less leeway for any duplicitous changes. A CGI trailer or an in-engine one are by that point far more suspicious.

There's nothing here that looks "faked", and your concern seem aimless and quite bizarre.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Right at the start of the stream it states something like "all gameplay from this point forward is running on PlayStation 5 hardware"

From memory it's right before the Spider-Man trailer.

Nope.

It says "All game footage you are about to see from this point forward in the show has been captured from Playstation 5 systems".

That statement is cleverly designed to appear meaningful but it's actually meaningless. You could even load a video file and have the PS5 play it and it would fit that statement. That's how meaningless it is.
 

Tulipanzo

Member
Nope.

It says "All game footage you are about to see from this point forward in the show has been captured from Playstation 5 systems".

That statement is cleverly designed to appear meaningful but it's actually meaningless. You could even load a video file and have the PS5 play it and it would fit that statement. That's how meaningless it is.
Yeah, that's straight up a conspiracy theory you have no basis for.
As I said, choosing to remain ignorant of how games are marketed, you'll be stuck thinking every dev is out to trick you.
 

Hunnybun

Member
Nope.

It says "All game footage you are about to see from this point forward in the show has been captured from Playstation 5 systems".

That statement is cleverly designed to appear meaningful but it's actually meaningless. You could even load a video file and have the PS5 play it and it would fit that statement. That's how meaningless it is.

Ffs you're being ridiculous. The intention was clearly to state that what you're about to see is what it looks like.

To satisfy you it probably would've had to run to 500 words.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Your problem is that you seem to assume all devs are out to trick you, instead of working through marketing and development timelines to give a representative look at their games.
And your problem is that you ignore the reality that big gaming has become a high stakes business and companies have lied to get a leg up. Devs might be honest, but marketing and PR have a job to do.
Of course everything can be faked, but the cool thing about that is that you can actually know about it by studying the footage, and using available information.
An extended gameplay segment, or a trailer captured in game, running on platform, leave far less leeway for any duplicitous changes. A CGI trailer or an in-engine one are by that point far more suspicious.
You're using naiveté as a defense. There's a reason the downgradethon has become a meme: because the fakery is so good, people don't catch it until we get real footage from the game usually in the 6 month window leading up to the release. And you need to stop saying that "running on platform" leaves less leeway. I've already explained to you how it doesn't change anything.
There's nothing here that looks "faked", and your concern seem aimless and quite bizarre.

So when you saw anthem you thought it was fake? when you saw andromeda you thought it was fake? when you saw witcher 3 you thought it was fake? When you saw colonial marines you thought it was fake? Yeah, I thought so.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Ffs you're being ridiculous. The intention was clearly to state that what you're about to see is what it looks like.

To satisfy you it probably would've had to run to 500 words.

OMG dude. Don't you realise what you've written? Let me repeat it for you:

"The intention was clearly to state that what your about to see is what it looks like"

And it was successful! The statement is so vague you could record a video file playing on a PS5 and it fit it and yet it convinced you that what you're about to see is what it looks like. Do I think any of the devs showcased did that? I hope not but it shows how vague it was. So much, that you become convinced that what they said is that everything was real gameplay.

Do you really not think that Sony careful crafts the message and tests it out?

To satisfy me all it had to say was "all about to see is real gameplay". Which they didn't. Guess why.
 
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Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Yeah, that's straight up a conspiracy theory you have no basis for.
As I said, choosing to remain ignorant of how games are marketed, you'll be stuck thinking every dev is out to trick you.

Read carefully.

What I am saying is that the opening statement of the PS5 showcase was so vague you could record a video file playing on a ps5 and it would fit that statement. Yet you believe it is meaningful.

That's not a conspiracy theory, that is true.

You continue being naive about how the games are marketed, you keep ignoring the tools available to the devs and how they've been used in the past. And until you understand that you'll continue being tricked by these giant corporations.

I've given you examples of footage presented by companies that were thought to be true by people and turned out to be fake. And you keep ignoring them. You don't address them. I wonder why.
 
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Greeno

Member
MS just need to show a next gen tech demo.
Forza was close.
But we need a longer tech demo.
Even getting UE5 running on SX next month is enough to get hyped
They just need to show Microsoft Simulator running on the XSX. It is that simple. They need to do that already.
 
Where did I say that showcases from different years should be included?
If Sony had two conferences at E3 2018, I'd expect both to be included, yes. Only including one might indicate an agenda, wouldn't you think?

Really struggling to understand this aren't you? Xbox's may event was not the equivilient of an E3 confrence. There's a reason Microsoft didn't call their july event an inside xbox.
 
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Greeno

Member
I truly think that gameplay walkthroughs, in-engine demos, etc are not enough anymore (because all of them can be easily used to lie to your face). We need demos to become popular again. You want to convince me that what you are showing is valid and true? Let me play that on my console via a demo.
 
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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Nope.

It says "All game footage you are about to see from this point forward in the show has been captured from Playstation 5 systems".

That statement is cleverly designed to appear meaningful but it's actually meaningless. You could even load a video file and have the PS5 play it and it would fit that statement. That's how meaningless it is.

VFXVeteran VFXVeteran tried running with something similar to this concern FUD, then shortly after corrected it when he was told that was not the case after allegedly speaking with dev contacts.

These goalposts man, I swear.
 

Hunnybun

Member
And your problem is that you ignore the reality that big gaming has become a high stakes business and companies have lied to get a leg up. Devs might be honest, but marketing and PR have a job to do.

You're using naiveté as a defense. There's a reason the downgradethon has become a meme: because the fakery is so good, people don't catch it until we get real footage from the game usually in the 6 month window leading up to the release. And you need to stop saying that "running on platform" leaves less leeway. I've already explained to you how it doesn't change anything.


So when you saw anthem you thought it was fake? when you saw andromeda you thought it was fake? when you saw witcher 3 you thought it was fake? When you saw colonial marines you thought it was fake? Yeah, I thought so.

Any idiot could see Anthem was fake
OMG dude. Don't you realise what you've written? Let me repeat it for you:

"The intention was clearly to state that what your about to see is what it looks like"

And it was successful! The statement is so vague you could record a video file playing on a PS5 and it fit it and yet it convinced you that what you're about to see is what it looks like. Do I think any of the devs showcased did that? I hope not but it shows how vague it was. So much, that you become convinced that what they said is that everything was real gameplay.

Do you really not think that Sony careful crafts the message and tests it out?

To satisfy me all it had to say was "all about to see is real gameplay". Which they didn't. Guess why.

They couldn't say that because not everything they showed was gameplay.

You might think I'm naive; I think you're ludicrously suspicious.

Generally speaking Sony has not been in the habit of trying to deceive viewers. They're perfectly aware that lots of people are cognizant of previous downgrades and that it's not a good strategy in the longer term.

And it's not just me. You're literally the only person I've encountered who seriously doubts the gameplay was real.
 
Nope.

It says "All game footage you are about to see from this point forward in the show has been captured from Playstation 5 systems".

That statement is cleverly designed to appear meaningful but it's actually meaningless. You could even load a video file and have the PS5 play it and it would fit that statement. That's how meaningless it is.

If it was a video file that the PS5 was playing then the game wasn't captured on a PS5 🤦‍♂️
 
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Tulipanzo

Member
VFXVeteran VFXVeteran tried running with something similar to this concern FUD, then shortly after corrected it when he was told that was not the case after allegedly speaking with dev contacts.

These goalposts man, I swear.
I'm sure him, having such deep understanding of game development and video editing, will have a teardown of all that fakery any minute now.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
VFXVeteran VFXVeteran tried running with something similar to this concern FUD, then shortly after corrected it when he was told that was not the case after allegedly speaking with dev contacts.

These goalposts man, I swear.

I hate pre-release season, everything is read to see if it favors or disfavors one of the console manufacturers and replied to accordingly.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Any idiot could see Anthem was fake

Hindsight is 20/20. Back in 2018 generally speaking, the consensus was that it was real but running on a high end PC with everything cranked to the max. Which is what people tend to think when they see "gameplay" that looks too good to be true.

They couldn't say that because not everything they showed was gameplay.
No, but they could've watermarked with "actual gameplay" or something similar specific segments and they chose not to.

You might think I'm naive; I think you're ludicrously suspicious.
I believe that's an accurate statement on what we think of each other.

Generally speaking Sony has not been in the habit of trying to deceive viewers. They're perfectly aware that lots of people are cognizant of previous downgrades and that it's not a good strategy in the longer term.
Sony has done some shady things in the past, specially around console launches. Driveclub was very obviously touched up for the early trailers, Deep Down was CGI vaporware, and Watch Dogs was, well, Watch Dogs. And if we go back to the ps3 launch, well that was legendary levels of fakery.

And it's not just me. You're literally the only person I've encountered who seriously doubts the gameplay was real.

Hype is a hell of a drug.
 
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Hunnybun

Member
Hindsight is 20/20. Back in 2018 generally speaking, the consensus was that it was real but running on a high end PC with everything cranked to the max. Which is what people tend to think when they see "gameplay" that looks too good to be true.


No, but they could've watermarked with "actual gameplay" or something similar and they chose not to.


I believe that's an accurate statement on what we think of each other.


Sony has done some shady things in the past, specially around console launches. Driveclub was very obviously touched up for the early trailers, Deep Down was CGI vaporware, and Watch Dogs was, well, Watch Dogs. And if we go back to the ps3 launch, well that was legendary levels of fakery.



Hype is a hell of a drug.

I don't really remember Driveclub being touched up? The earliest stuff actually looked much worse than the retail version, but I'm not sure if that's what you're referring to?

Deep Down was obviously BS, tbf. But that was a Capcom game rather than Sony, for whatever that's worth.

Clearly the PS3 stuff is a different story, but that's nearly 15 years ago! Maybe one day you'll learn to forget and trust again.
 
Apologies to all those that they didn't see gameplay during the PS showcase, but were you all conveniently and simultaneously going to the toilet when this footage was shown??



Maye its a testament to Insomniac, but I don't think this looks next gen. Watch gameplay videos of the last Rachet and Clank game and they look pretty similar. It's a beautiful looking game, but not an graphic evolution from the last one.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
I don't really remember Driveclub being touched up? The earliest stuff actually looked much worse than the retail version, but I'm not sure if that's what you're referring to?
Driveclub while being a generally speaking great looking game, had some obvious aliasing issues that were absent from the trailers "gameplay".

Deep Down was obviously BS, tbf. But that was a Capcom game rather than Sony, for whatever that's worth.
And yet Sony who was probably aware that it was BS, chose to include it to build hype. At least square enix was forthcoming about Agni's Phylosophy being a tech demo.

Clearly the PS3 stuff is a different story, but that's nearly 15 years ago! Maybe one day you'll learn to forget and trust again.

They did it 15 years ago for the ps3, they did it 7 years ago for the ps4. Maybe one day you'll learn these corporations are not your friends and you're just a wallet to them.
 

JonnyMP3

Member
Maye its a testament to Insomniac, but I don't think this looks next gen. Watch gameplay videos of the last Rachet and Clank game and they look pretty similar. It's a beautiful looking game, but not an graphic evolution from the last one.
Similar looking because the art style is the same but also apart from the SSD speed loading things much faster, compared to the 2016 version, this one has much more going on the screen at once. It's a lot more busier and hectic with more particles and effects.

Typo City
 
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Hunnybun

Member
Driveclub while being a generally speaking great looking game, had some obvious aliasing issues that were absent from the trailers "gameplay".


And yet Sony who was probably aware that it was BS, chose to include it to build hype. At least square enix was forthcoming about Agni's Phylosophy being a tech demo.



They did it 15 years ago for the ps3, they did it 7 years ago for the ps4. Maybe one day you'll learn these corporations are not your friends and you're just a wallet to them.

I don't see them as my friend, your problem is you seem to see them as your enemy. They're neither.

I just try to judge the credibility of pre-release footage on a game by game basis.

I trust you believe that the Unreal 5 demo was real, running on a PS5 etc? Since they explicitly, undeniably, stated it?

So let's say you do. Well we've got evidence there that the PS5 can produce exceptionally good visuals, albeit sub 4k and on a rather revolutionary engine. But it's still informative of what's basically possible.

So I judge the other PS5 footage against that standard, and with the possible exception of Ratchet, all of it looks decidedly worse than the Unreal demo. Prima facie, it therefore seems believable. Most of it looks obviously but not spectacularly better than the best PS4 games. Again, roughly something we might expect given the large increase in power but the corresponding large increase in resolution.

I think this is a more balanced approach than just assuming automatically it's all BS because Sony wants to fleece me of my hard-earned.

But whatever, you do you.
 
Similar looking because the art style is the same but also apart from the SSD speed loading thinfs much faster, compared to the 2016 version, this one has much mote going on the screen at once. It's a lot more busier and hectic with more particles and efforts.
The rifts in the video are a tough one to gauge for me being that they seem to be part of a cut scene sequence until the pirate one. It'll be interesting to see how they play once the game comes out.

I also agree that there are a lot of particles and such going on, but environment detail wise, the games look very similar.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
I hate pre-release season, everything is read to see if it favors or disfavors one of the console manufacturers and replied to accordingly.

Then stop taking part in it. They said everything they are presenting was “captured directly from a PS5 running in real time.”

No “press play on a video file,” and no “running on a PC using the PS5 as a passthrough.”

Various devs even confirmed it on Twitter and in small interviews, especially the gameplay portions.

As for MS, they were way more ambiguous with their disclaimers this time around, and now we are hearing conflicting reports from their marketing (Aaron Greenberg) saying the opposite of the dev blogs themselves (343).
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Then stop taking part in it. They said everything they are presenting was “captured directly from a PS5 running in real time.”

No “press play on a video file,” and no “running on a PC using the PS5 as a passthrough.”

Various devs even confirmed it on Twitter and in small interviews, especially the gameplay portions.

As for MS, they were way more ambiguous with their disclaimers this time around, and now we are hearing conflicting reports from their marketing (Aaron Greenberg) saying the opposite of the dev blogs themselves (343).

So suddenly I shouldn't be allowed to post on GAF because the console warrioring clown fiesta is in full swing?

Screw that.

Sony's opening statement was so broad to be meaningless. I'm sorry it hurts you but it's true.

As for Greenberg straight out lying wouldn't surprise me. Getting crossed by 343 tho that's peculiar.
 

Kokoloko85

Member
Which I would hope goes something like this:

Horizon gameplay
COD reveal, with timed exclusive content.
Demon’s Souls gameplay
New IP cgi trailer
Ratchet gameplay
Miles Morales gameplay
Big, splashy cgi trailer for huge IP (GoW2/Uncharted etc.)
Price
Release date

Add in:
Some UI showing
BC talk
1st party multiplayer or 2. Socom and Last of us 2 mp
Silent Hills
And just for me. A new Jax n Daxter

+ lol
 

DavidGzz

Member
.I mean I can match you on a lot of that
Deep down and the wizard game being shown at the ps4 show and Never coming out
Ghosts graphics downgrade
last of us 2 graphics downgrade
Every killzone graphics downgrade.
Silent hills from kojima never comes out

Sony doesn't deliver a lot too. its just people don't care

Yep, it goes both ways but when you're biased and love one of these corporations, you forgive and forget. I think they both need to do better. Either way, I am excited about next gen!
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
So suddenly I shouldn't be allowed to post on GAF because the console warrioring clown fiesta is in full swing?

Screw that.

Sony's opening statement was so broad to be meaningless. I'm sorry it hurts you but it's true.

As for Greenberg straight out lying wouldn't surprise me. Getting crossed by 343 tho that's peculiar.

Where did I say any of that?

🤷‍♀️

Nothing “hurts me,” stop being a projecting little 🤡

You claim you dislike the preseason launch FUD, yet you partake in it.

:messenger_weary::messenger_ok:
 
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Azurro

Banned
Nope.

It says "All game footage you are about to see from this point forward in the show has been captured from Playstation 5 systems".

That statement is cleverly designed to appear meaningful but it's actually meaningless. You could even load a video file and have the PS5 play it and it would fit that statement. That's how meaningless it is.

I ran your statement through google translate:

"I am concerned because MS presentation was terrible and had no next gen games, therefore I need to make it seem like Sony's was also terrible, otherwise I'll look dumb because I am an Xbox fanboy and I'm going to buy an Xbox anyway". :p
 
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Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Where did I say any of that?

🤷‍♀️

Nothing “hurts me,” stop being a projecting little 🤡

You claim you dislike the preseason launch FUD, yet you partake in it.

:messenger_weary::messenger_ok:

I find interesting that when I was posting what I thought about Halo Infinite being demoed on PC you were nowhere to be seen. You seem to have very narrow interests when it comes to calling out FUD, real or imaginary .
 

Perrott

Gold Member
.I mean I can match you on a lot of that
Deep down and the wizard game being shown at the ps4 show and Never coming out
Ghosts graphics downgrade
last of us 2 graphics downgrade
Every killzone graphics downgrade.
Silent hills from kojima never comes out

Sony doesn't deliver a lot too. its just people don't care
Oh, are we really doing this?

Deep Down was a Capcom game.
Silent Hills was a Konami thing.
The "Killzone downgrade" happened 15 years ago ffs
The Last Of Us 2, with or without downgrade, its the best looking game out there as of today
 
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Journey

Banned
Is a single game running on Series X?

Another example of Microsoft promising but not showing. They been doing this for 5 years and their fanbase eat that shit up.

I'm getting flashbacks
Phantom Dust CG trailer - turns out to be nothing
ReCore from the creators of Metroid Prime - turns out to be B level average game
Scalebound - cancelled
Fable Legends - cancelled

It just doesn't make any sense why should we trust Microsoft without them showing gameplay. All these games look like fall 2022 games and even if they do come out there is no guarantee they will even deliver. Will people buy a Series X based on promises.

#webelieveinphil

Where were you during E3 2005 when the PS3 was announced? must’ve been hard to be a Sony fan... nah lol
 

KAL2006

Banned
.I mean I can match you on a lot of that
Deep down and the wizard game being shown at the ps4 show and Never coming out
Ghosts graphics downgrade
last of us 2 graphics downgrade
Every killzone graphics downgrade.
Silent hills from kojima never comes out

Sony doesn't deliver a lot too. its just people don't care

The difference is Sony has more hits, Ghosts I wouldn't say it was a graphics downgrade. For every the order or deep down Sony have they delivered with God of war, last of us 2, Spiderman, all reviewing well critically, GotY nominees and sales.

You can't say the same thing with Microsoft. Just simply compare how many successful games Sony had in comparison to Microsoft this generation
Where were you during E3 2005 when the PS3 was announced? must’ve been hard to be a Sony fan... nah lol

I was there and it was fucking awful. The kicker was when they tried to blag that they don't have rumble due to sixaxis.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Ok, child. Seriously, how old are you? These sound like arguments I made when I was in middle school, real talk.

And now we've reached the endgame: suddenly you don't care at all about the subject at hand since things aren't going your way and resort to personal attacks.

That's really disappointing. I was expecting more from you.

Disappointing and boring. Which is the problem with joke posters, your personas eventually become stale.

I'm just going to put you on my ignore list.
 

JonnyMP3

Member
The rifts in the video are a tough one to gauge for me being that they seem to be part of a cut scene sequence until the pirate one. It'll be interesting to see how they play once the game comes out.

I also agree that there are a lot of particles and such going on, but environment detail wise, the games look very similar.
Well would it make you happier to know that all this footage is pre-alphas as marked bottom left of the video? Because if it looks as good as this and it's just pre-alpha then there's probably lots more to come.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
And now we've reached the endgame: suddenly you don't care at all about the subject at hand since things aren't going your way and resort to personal attacks.

That's really disappointing. I was expecting more from you.

Disappointing and boring. Which is the problem with joke posters, your personas eventually become stale.

I'm just going to put you on my ignore list.

Bro, we weren’t even talking about Halo, but you had to move the goalposts. I think you have issues. Comprehension issues.
 
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Oh, are we really doing this?

Deep Down was a Capcom game.
Silent Hills was a Konami thing.
The "Killzone downgrade" happened 15 years ago ffs
The Last Of Us 2, with or without downgrade, its the best looking game out there as of today


Scalebound was a platinum game. It doesn't matter. Its an exclusive game that didn't make it. There was also thge sucker punch game that had some footage leaked that was cancelled. Every killzone gets downgraded.
 
Yep, it goes both ways but when you're biased and love one of these corporations, you forgive and forget. I think they both need to do better. Either way, I am excited about next gen!


People want to play the console war BS. My best friend does that all the time. Who cares. I have never been the biggest fan of nintendo. They don't make games I like and I dont want to play the worst version of a multiplat on there system. Thats my choice but nintendo isn't a bad company and neither are sony or nintendo. They all have good and bad parts. I have all 3 because I love videogames
 
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