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An objective look at the games shown, PS5 and XBox Series X game showcases
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Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Here are the games I'm interested in
PS5:
Spider-man Miles Morales
Returnal
Horizon Forbidden West
Ratchet and Clank
Lost Soul Aside
Gran Turismo 7
Astro's Playroom
Project Awakening
Wild
Demon Souls
Xbox Series X:
Forza
Everwild
Avowed
Crossfire X
Hellblade 2
Tulipanzo
Member
It's a little tongue in cheek, I feel HB2 should just have been there, or not. Instead we got aerial shots of Iceland, which while pretty are probably better off for a dev-diary.
Sony's next showing should be in August, and seems like a State of Play, but possibly chunkier.
MS has to finally announce whether Lockhart is real, in what was a hardware-focused show delayed from June. It might feature some software, but looking at rumours this was their last major blowout for that.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Sony has a State of Play next month and a teardown of the PS5 coming, some more internals explained and the cooling solution
Tulipanzo
Member
I understand the enthusiasm, but this isn't meant to be a look at who's better, rather a way to, at a glance, understand why some people felt the way they did with one show or the other.Here are the games I'm interested in
PS5:
Spider-man Miles Morales
Returnal
Horizon Forbidden West
Ratchet and Clank
Lost Soul Aside
Gran Turismo 7
Astro's Playroom
Project Awakening
Wild
Demon Souls
Xbox Series X:
Forza
Everwild
Avowed
Crossfire X
Hellblade 2
Tastes are going to vary, but really both had similar length shows, with a similar number of titles and exclusives; the key difference in my chart being in how those titles were showcased, and which were new.
If you want to compare what games YOU liked in either show, there's other threads for that.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Which I would hope goes something like this:
Horizon gameplay
COD reveal, with timed exclusive content.
Demon’s Souls gameplay
New IP cgi trailer
Ratchet gameplay
Miles Morales gameplay
Big, splashy cgi trailer for huge IP (GoW2/Uncharted etc.)
Price
Release date
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oldergamer
Member
Quit crying
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
I was just messing with blly155
Tulipanzo
Member
Put effort in your list then!
Wtf should I do with a shitty copy-paste from some blog?
I know, but still let's stick to the topic.I was just messing with blly155
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bumleforce
Member
.I mean I can match you on a lot of that
Deep down and the wizard game being shown at the ps4 show and Never coming out
Ghosts graphics downgrade
last of us 2 graphics downgrade
Every killzone graphics downgrade.
Silent hills from kojima never comes out
Sony doesn't deliver a lot too. its just people don't care
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
VAL0R
Banned
I find you unbelievably sensitive and easily offended like a spoiled child. Grow a thicker skin. Nobody is attacking you. Grow up.
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Thread is open for discussion. If you don't like my comments move to another thread and stop whining.
Zoro7
Banned
Hyped for what exactly? In terms of games for the next year or 2?
This is the essence of Microsoft's problem: they're at least a year, and probably 2 years, behind Sony in terms of exclusive output.
Their 2021 release schedule looks embarrassingly barren. Probably Forza - was there anything else? Sony look like they'll have 6 or 7 first party games in the same time.
It's going to be a really punishing first year for Xbox. After 2022 they can probably compete pretty well with Sony, but I guess they'll be hopelessly behind by then.
Ass of Can Whooping
Banned
So if this was a thread comparing Microsoft and Sonys E3 2018 conference, you'd still be bitching about objectivity because they had E3 conferences in 2017, 16 etc
You must really think the Xbox showcase was dogshit if this os your stance
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DeltaPolarBear
Member
Demos is one thing.
Ms need to actually show those demos in a Series X machine. I am baffled at what is holding them up in doing so, 4 months from launch. If Covid had not happened, was Ms going to attend game conventions running their demos on PCs?
Tulipanzo
Member
Nobody is attacking the og poster either by suggesting they put more effort in their posts.
The May event was a primarily third party focused event, unlike the PS5 Reveal and the XBox game showcase.
It'd be worth including if Sony either had a similar event, or if the overwhelming majority of the May stuff wasn't coming to PS5.
Since neither is the case, it'd make for a pretty pointless addition.
Geki-D
Banned
Yeah, I assume this is why they're pushing the "upgrade patches" for last gen so hard, to make their first party lineup look bigger.
I don't really understand how they get themselves into these messes.
Of the 8 proper 1st party games Sony revealed last month, 4 of them are being developed by third parties! What exactly was stopping Microsoft from making similar deals? Did they not realise they'd have nothing to offer the first couple of years of a new console's life? How? It's not rocket science.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
IMHO, neither has shown next-gen gameplay.
Halo was running on a PC and there were no gameplay demos in the ps5 showcase.
Whatever is in a trailer, no matter how convincing, is highly suspect and I include even the gran turismo bit in trial mountain. Unless the dev comes forward and says "yes in the trailer that was real gameplay" I'm not buying it.
Halo was running on a PC and there were no gameplay demos in the ps5 showcase.
Whatever is in a trailer, no matter how convincing, is highly suspect and I include even the gran turismo bit in trial mountain. Unless the dev comes forward and says "yes in the trailer that was real gameplay" I'm not buying it.
That doesn't make any sense. Why's it more suspect because it's presented in a trailer rather than a separate demo?
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Trailer trickery goes a long way back. We have a lot of examples of trailers that appeared to depict real gameplay but were just CGI designed to look like gameplay. Unless there's a clear statement that it is "real gameplay", assume the worst specially when we're in the early stages of a new generation.
LOL but why is it more suspect in a trailer than a demo, specifically?
Literally none of the gameplay shown in Sony's trailers looked like it couldn't be done. The GT7 footage even had noticeable pop in FFS.
On the other hand, the most egregious examples of BS 'gameplay' from recent years, Watchdogs, The Division, and Anthem, all came from extended demos.
Ratchet?
oldergamer
Member
It was copied from the first page. If it bothers you that more was announced for xbox then you listed, in the op, then just say so.
However you listed gta5 which was third party, and missed all the games ms had in the preshow last week. There are a lot of indie games that are exclusive on xbox missing from your list. If you want to add something of value to the thread.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
It's easier to fake a trailer and we've got plenty examples.
This industry has a long history of misrepresenting the actual product in marketing materials. Given that, if you wanna believe a trailer is real gameplay without an explicit statement from the devs, when these consoles have not yet hit market and are still in development, it's up to you.
HOW is it easier to fake? I keep asking for an explanation but you don't provide any.
As far as I'm concerned gameplay either looks plausible or it doesn't. Whether it's presented as part of a trailer or as a dedicated demo seems completely fucking irrelevant.
Vaelka
Member
Didn't Spiderman get downgraded?
Regardless tho you're right.
It doesn't even have to be for devious reasons it could also be that they genuinely plan for a game to look one way and have it running but then later on things just ain't working properly and they have to cut corners.
Believing everything that you see in a trailer tho has to be the height of naivety, it's like believing that the food you get in food commercials will be of the same quality.
Doesn't mean that the food isn't tasty, but they go the extra mile in commercials to make you buy.
It's not irrelevant because you can touch the visuals up in a controlled environment to make things look better.
If you don't think that game companies would do that for a trailer you're wrong, even in movies they do this sometimes they go as far as shooting scenes that they know won't even be in the movie just to have it in the trailer.
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Can you not do that in a demo as well?
Like I said, the most blatant examples of BS gameplay I can think of were all extended demos: Watchdogs, The Division, and Anthem.
Obviously that can be done in a trailer too, but it's not fundamentally more likely. Do you even have examples to back up the claim? Ultimately you have to judge the footage independently and see if you think it's credible. I think what Sony showed was credible. Guess we'll see.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Modern game engines do offline rendering. You can queue a bunch of actions and have the game engine render it out, even at 1fps, similar to rendering video using a video editor. You can even do it in-hardware so you can use tag lines like recorded in engine on actual ps5 hardware.
It's often use to generate cinematics using better assets than it would be possible so they better integrate with the game. But you can also use it to generate convincing material for trailers.
Fair enough. So what examples do you have?
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Companies don't go around saying "hey we faked our marketing materials" so generally speaking when there's a downgradethon and enough public pressure builds up that they feel the need to do something if you read "target game play" "representative game play" and similar wordings in their pr response there it is.
No man's sky, call of duty 2, aliens colonial marines, loads of Ubisoft games until they got hit badly and started to go semi-legit, even Witcher 3 did it (although the game turned out awesome so no one cared). These are specific examples I remember because I was interested in those games but if you go to YouTube and search for trailer vs real game you'll find a bunch of videos.
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Tulipanzo
Member
That makes it even more lazy, he didn't even make it himself, he just copy-pasted someone else's
The purpose of the post was never to highlight exclusivity, but to compare shows directly for how games were presented in them.
You can actually count more highlighted exclusives from the MS chart, but I feel what people reacted more strongly to was the abundant use of CGI and little gameplay, which can actually be quantified. Similarly, while Sony had more gameplay, it was sometimes very sparce, which again I earmarked.
If I started to list anything that was announced for either based on marketing deals, we'd get a confusing mess of a list with 0 clarity. Nobody has any use for an XBox sticker next to DQ11S or a PS one next to WDL just because they happened to be shown.
Again, this is a plain comparison of both major shows for each company. I'm still amazed to have seen more criticism of "not listing multiplats" rather than methodology or choices on the charts.
It seems to me some people just want to see a long list of games with "XBox" written above it to feel good.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Did they say the trailer was real gameplay?
Tulipanzo
Member
They literally said so, yes.
It's pretty useless before release to pretend all companies were lying indiscriminately.
I feel it's reasonable to be concerned about CGI/in-engine stuff, but a lot of what we've seen was actually running on-platform on PS5 or targeted specs at the XBox show. It's marked as "in-game trailers".
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
If Sony said it, ok I accept that as real gameplay. I'd like the source, as well.
It's the standard these companies have set. Do I really need to trot out the ps3 or ps4 reveals?
Running on-platform is meaningless as I explained earlier, "in-game" is more interesting: what trailers were marked as "in-game"? I just checked the GT7 trailer and nowhere I saw "in-game".
Entroyp
Member
Why? There was gameplay for many titles as stated by their developers and saying I don’t believe them is the opposite of objective.
If they were lying then we will know soon enough and they will have to face the music like 343 did.
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No, they said it was live action without hud...
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
If the developers or the publishing company (not a third party like an influencer or a "journalist") says the trailer is the game, I'm fine taking it at face value.
If they do not, I don't believe it's gameplay.
Tulipanzo
Member
It's in the actual PS5 stream , right before the gameplay.
You need to be able to discern what's to be believed and not. If you don't understand how these trailers come about, then you're just stuck poring over them at release to find meaningless differences. Same as with "puddlegate", where it was just cube maps had moved.
It is meaningful, because it means that developers actually had to get everything working as if it were running on your machine, not an hypothetical one (as WatchDogs did). You can actually point to rendering artifacts which wouldn't happen if it all were just a very convincing cutscene.
Changes will happen, but there can be no switcheroo as with a fake CGI or PC render.
Where did I say that showcases from different years should be included?
If Sony had two conferences at E3 2018, I'd expect both to be included, yes. Only including one might indicate an agenda, wouldn't you think?
Tulipanzo
Member
How deluded do you have to be to see bias in directly comparing two first party software showcases?
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Interesting. I went to check the stream and they go from GT7 trailer, to Ratchet trailer, to a short speech from someone at Insomniac (who does NOT mention wether the footage is in-game, in-engine or whatever) to some more footage. I might have missed so please kindly provide a timestamp for the statement.
I don't think YOU know how trailers are made: the moment devs were able to plug higher quality assets than possible, ramp up effects and then queue actions to be rendered by the engine offline like one renders a video, pre-release game footage became inmediatly suspect. It's like you live in a world were Andromeda, Anthem, The Witcher 3 or the bajillion times Ubi did it never happened. Here, you can have a look for yourself: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=video+game+downgrade
That's what you don't understand. You only need the most basic of support to use the real hardware to render out video. As soon as you get a dev environment up and running you can use the cinematic tools of your engine to throw in assets and then queue in actions to create believable video. At that point you don't need game logic, you don't need physics, you don't need anything else. It's like using your computer to render video: do you need any "game" to load up 3d assets animate them?
Why do you think companies keep coming up with terms like "in-engine", "in-game", "target gameplay", "representative gameplay" and so on? Because they can't say it's gameplay because it isn't.
Don't believe me? Go to youtube and search for "Unreal sequencer tutorial". Or if you want a past example from a Sony console announcement I think it was this Heavenly Sword trailer that famously was rendered at 1fps on a devkit.
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