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AMD + Valve Working On New Linux CPU Performance Scaling Design

IntentionalPun

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MS created that model to be free.
In the past versions (Windows XP, Windows 7, etc) it was not possible... they changed.

I will give a better ideia.
A F2P game that you needs to buy cosmetics only is a free or paid game?
Windows 10 is basically that... a F2P game that you need to buy cosmetics only.

PS. You can't get MS supports for an unactivated copy too but that is the part of the service activation they are selling.

It's not like an F2P game.. because using Windows 10 w/o activating w/ a license is against the terms of use.. it is.. an unlicensed use of the software.

They have light DRM because they gave up caring enough but it's not a "free model of Windows."
 
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Irobot82

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Why? I can run 2K 30 FPS Tomb Raider on a M1 Mac Mini with ULTRA everything without optimization. I couldn't believe it yesterday. I was just fucking around too. Yes I understand its an old game but fuck man. All this without a $800 GPU on a 5 Watt machine.

MoltenVK would bring gaming to Apple (and I fucking hate Apple but Silicone has changed the game) just like Proton did with Linux. Valve has been looking into the future and unlike everyone else, its going to dominate the market. ARM is the future. I think Geekbench made a video on thos recently.
If Nvidia's purchase of ARM goes through it will no longer be open source. Do you really think Apple, Samsung etc really want to let Nvidia control its future and charge whatever it wants for it's chip license?
 

Fahdis

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If Nvidia's purchase of ARM goes through it will no longer be open source. Do you really think Apple, Samsung etc really want to let Nvidia control its future and charge whatever it wants for it's chip license?

They will have to pay royalties if it does. I can understand what you guys are saying but the future looks good no matter how we see it. There is always an alternartive.
 
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Irobot82

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They will have to pay royalties if it does. I can understand what you guys are saying but the future looks good no matter how we see it. There is always an alternartive.
Agreed. The future will most likely move to RISC-V.

Edit:

It's not just royalties.

Nvidia could say, hey you can no longer customer the ARM cores. You must use our design. Or they could say, Hey if you want to customizer it you have to pay but 100 mil and 5% of all sales. It's going to be a shitshow.
 
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Dream-Knife

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windows is fucking cack. with every new version it just gets more and more convoluted. Its like they dont like desktop and want to turn it into a mobile phone.

but it ends up being shit a both.
Not really. Windows 10 is easier than ever to use. But I guess some people should just stick to tablets.
Fuck ARM, especially is Nvidia gets their grubby mitts on it. RISC please. Open source.
Nvidia isn't going to get ARM. RISC is probably going to over take it. Keep in mind this article is about x86. AMD is making x86 more and more efficient, essentially eliminating the reason to go to low powered architectures like ARM and RISC.
There is no technical reason for that to be true. Windows uses a lot of system resources.
Not really. Windows isn't the answer for lower powered devices though, such a phones and tablets. Never mind that the interface isn't built for that.
Why? I can run 2K 30 FPS Tomb Raider on a M1 Mac Mini with ULTRA everything without optimization. I couldn't believe it yesterday. I was just fucking around too. Yes I understand its an old game but fuck man. All this without a $800 GPU on a 5 Watt machine.

MoltenVK would bring gaming to Apple (and I fucking hate Apple but Silicone has changed the game) just like Proton did with Linux. Valve has been looking into the future and unlike everyone else, its going to dominate the market. ARM is the future. I think Geekbench made a video on thos recently.
By 2k are you talking about 1080p? Use the p designation to be more clear. Tomb Raider is an old game. You can get similar gaming performance from AMD's newer APUs. No one really does that though because that isn't acceptable performance for a gaming PC.

Shame the performance gains are stuck to MacOS and Apples closed ecosystem making them non-starters anyway.
Noob question. Why game consoles use their own OS, and have great perfomance, while linux, being open source and all, has performance issues and a big overhead compared to windows, when precisely one of the main differences between consoles and PC is how bloated Windows actually is.

It would be greatly apreciated if someone answers in simple terms.
Game consoles don't always have good performance though. FreeBSD as implemented in PS4 is slow and sluggish, while its implementation on Switch is light and fast, despite being on a system that's three times less powerful (FP32).

When games are made for directx, there has to be a degree of emulation for the API.

Window's isn't really bloated, but it contains a lot of stuff you wouldn't use for a strictly gaming machine. Keep in mind consoles use APUs, while PCs have separate CPUs and GPUs.
 
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Fahdis

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Not really. Windows 10 is easier than ever to use. But I guess some people should just stick to tablets.

Nvidia isn't going to get ARM. RISC is probably going to over take it. Keep in mind this article is about x86. AMD is making x86 more and more efficient, essentially eliminating the reason to go to low powered architectures like ARM and RISC.

Not really. Windows isn't the answer for lower powered devices though, such a phones and tablets. Never mind that the interface isn't built for that.

By 2k are you talking about 1080p? Use the p designation to be more clear. Tomb Raider is an old game. You can get similar gaming performance from AMD's newer APUs. No one really does that though because that isn't acceptable performance for a gaming PC.

Shame the performance gains are stuck to MacOS and Apples closed ecosystem making them non-starters anyway.

Game consoles don't always have good performance though. FreeBSD as implemented in PS4 is slow and sluggish, while its implementation on Switch is light and fast, despite being on a system that's three times less powerful (FP32).

When games are made for directx, there has to be a degree of emulation for the API.

Window's isn't really bloated, but it contains a lot of stuff you wouldn't use for a strictly gaming machine. Keep in mind consoles use APUs, while PCs have separate CPUs and GPUs.

1440p Mate. 4K ran as well but at 15 FPS. Still impressed since it cost me $700 to buy a computer to do video editing that does it faster than anything I've ever used.
 

nerdface

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I dunno if it’s along the same lines, but I am kinda tired of alt-tab renice -20 plus whatever gpu setting…I have to sudu su so I can write to the scaling governor in /dev/system/devices?… or set a gaming user and set everything as that user to run at a certain priority ect

it’s especially annoying in old games where physics or net code are tied to frames and your fucking kernel is trying to choke your cpu at an annoying interval

so yeah, hope that’s what they’re working on :p

it’s probably the opposite so they have battery life numbers for the marketing department…I hope they are configuring all these games, cause I don’t want to be at the command line with my deck in my hands… so to speak
 

michaelius

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It's for businesses, so if you want a fleet of thin clients that remotes into more powerful virtual PC's, you can sign up for Windows 365.


As someone with a work device, I don't particularly care if my work device was a thin client* that remotes into a remote pc, it actually might benefit me if I can remote into a more powerful configuration.

* for the fact that the thin client needs to have good battery life and a good keyboard
Legit question have you actually tried working on something like this?

My previous company had systems like this where part of the software was localised on servers in our HQ and we used to login into virtual desktops there.

And it was shit because there was that tiny bit of barely noticeable lag whenever you did anything with it.
 

Irobot82

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Nvidia isn't going to get ARM. RISC is probably going to over take it. Keep in mind this article is about x86. AMD is making x86 more and more efficient, essentially eliminating the reason to go to low powered architectures like ARM and RISC.
I really hope so.

As much as Intel and AMD has done great things with x86 it really isn't a great instruction set. ARM and RISC are better but who knows how things will shake out in the future.
 

Fahdis

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How is 1440p 2k?

1440p is also called QHD (quad high definition) or WQHD (wide quad high definition) and is a display resolution that measures 2560 x 1440 pixels. This resolution is also commonly referred to as 2K. Resolution explains how many pixels a display has in width x height format, and the more pixels a display has, the sharper its images quality should be.
 

Unknown?

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Windows is known spyware but also sucks in general. Linux based gaming is why I'm getting into PC gaming.
 

cartman414

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I really hope so.

As much as Intel and AMD has done great things with x86 it really isn't a great instruction set. ARM and RISC are better but who knows how things will shake out in the future.

Here's the thing: could ARM rival/exceed Intel at the performance/enthusiast level? The potential is there, but ARM needs to expand beyond its ultra low power niche.

And are you referring to RISC-V? I'm interested in seeing where that goes.
 
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Irobot82

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Here's the thing: could ARM rival/exceed Intel at the performance/enthusiast level? The potential is there, but ARM needs to expand beyond its ultra low power niche.

And are you referring to RISC-V? I'm interested in seeing where that goes.
Yes. I like to see what ARM could to with a 65-125W platform. I don't think it's been done before, unless it's been on the server side of things. Yes I think RISC-V will eventually take over the ARM market if ARM gets bought out by Nvidia.
 

Dream-Knife

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1440p is also called QHD (quad high definition) or WQHD (wide quad high definition) and is a display resolution that measures 2560 x 1440 pixels. This resolution is also commonly referred to as 2K. Resolution explains how many pixels a display has in width x height format, and the more pixels a display has, the sharper its images quality should be.
Then it should be 2.5k.

Until 4k, no one based resolution off the horizontal axis. It's a dumb thing to do, and is only designed to create buzz words so idiots would buy a new TV.

Just call it 1440p. 4k is 2160p.

I really hope so.

As much as Intel and AMD has done great things with x86 it really isn't a great instruction set. ARM and RISC are better but who knows how things will shake out in the future.
Problem is x86 is still better in an "unlimited power" scenario.

To move everything to arm would be a degradation in performance.

I think optimizing x86 is the future, but who knows. 11 years ago people were saying desktops would be dead and we'd just be using tablets.
 
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cartman414

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Yes. I like to see what ARM could to with a 65-125W platform. I don't think it's been done before, unless it's been on the server side of things. Yes I think RISC-V will eventually take over the ARM market if ARM gets bought out by Nvidia.

Yeah. ARM already has licensing fees, even if there are customization options.

RISC-V if nothing else is completely free to customize, and can be designed with VLSI. Definitely looking at where it goes, but it may be one of those slow things without a major money/research source.
 
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Reizo Ryuu

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1440p Mate.
That's not 2K
Until 4k, no one based resolution off the horizontal axis.
Not true 4K has always been 4096x in cinema, likewise 2K has always been 2048x
"In the movie projection industry, Digital Cinema Initiatives is the dominant standard for 2K output and defines 2K resolution as 2048 × 1080."
"the movie projection industry uses 4096 × 2160 (DCI 4K)."


2K has been used to refer to 1080p, because it's close to 2K, just like people calling UHD "4K", because it's close to 4K.
But it has never meant 1440p, that's definitely a more recent thing by misguided gamers.
 

Dream-Knife

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That's not 2K

Not true 4K has always been 4096x in cinema, likewise 2K has always been 2048x
"In the movie projection industry, Digital Cinema Initiatives is the dominant standard for 2K output and defines 2K resolution as 2048 × 1080."
"the movie projection industry uses 4096 × 2160 (DCI 4K)."


2K has been used to refer to 1080p, because it's close to 2K, just like people calling UHD "4K", because it's close to 4K.
But it has never meant 1440p, that's definitely a more recent thing by misguided gamers.
Interesting.

Is 1024x768 1k?
 

Utherellus

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Always is a bold statement. Like you say Linux performance is getting better and more stable all the time, with a concerted effort by interested parties.

In some areas running games though Proton actually gives better performance, and can also offer cool things that actually make games more accessible like being able to automatically scale to resolutions maybe not supported by a legacy game natively and even implement FSR on the fly for all games (although at the end of the rendering chain that's not ideal).

I really hope a couple of other players in the industry realise that a non Windows future is within grasp and join Valve in supporting Linux in whatever way they can. Google are already doing their bit, by getting 3rd parties to build Linux executables for Stadia, in theory it wouldn't be a massive leap for the likes of Ubisoft and EA to port their games to Linux Desktop, although I admin there is probably little commercial incentive at the moment. I'm hoping the Steam Deck might move that dial a bit.

Proton getting better performance than Windows is very rare. And takes place only on AMD gpus coz their driver on linux rocks.

The biggest problem is how DXVK/VKD3D works. It translates DX libraries to Vulkan. So it will always have some overhead. We need native linux games with better Nvidia drivers.

Second problem is compatibility. Now, Valve said that they are aiming to make compatible game percentage near to 100 by the launch of Steam Deck, but we have to see how it turns out in reality.

Personally, one day, if I search for Windows vs Linux game performance on Nvidia and see no difference or even improvements, if I see that Proton miraculously managed to run 99.9999999% windows games without issues....

I will gladly install PopOS or Manjaro as second boot and game on it.
 
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nerdface

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Here's the thing: could ARM rival/exceed Intel at the performance/enthusiast level? The potential is there, but ARM needs to expand beyond its ultra low power niche.

And are you referring to RISC-V? I'm interested in seeing where that goes.

per watt?… cause that’s the most important metric in a handheld

honest question… I have no idea who can do better here these days

not sure how you can dismiss low power as a niche… if it’s only a niche, this is still it?… I’d try another angle
 
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cartman414

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per watt?… cause that’s the most important metric in a handheld

honest question… I have no idea who can do better here these days

not sure how you can dismiss low power as a niche… if it’s only a niche, this is still it?… I’d try another angle

I'm talking about desktops. The area x86 has had to itself for years.

And by niche I mean that ARM mostly caters to one segment, huge as it is.
 

Sean Mirrsen

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The biggest problem is how DXVK/VKD3D works. It translates DX libraries to Vulkan. So it will always have some overhead. We need native linux games with better Nvidia drivers.
Not quite. What we need is more games using Vulkan. Because there's next to no overhead for the kernel translation, and most of the overhead is in translating DirectX to Vulkan.
 
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Fahdis

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1440p is also called QHD (quad high definition) or WQHD (wide quad high definition) and is a display resolution that measures 2560 x 1440 pixels. This resolution is also commonly referred to as 2K. Resolution explains how many pixels a display has in width x height format, and the more pixels a display has, the sharper its images quality should be.

Lol, this answer came straight from Google. Don't shoot the messenger.
 

rnlval

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MS created that model to be free.
In the past versions (Windows XP, Windows 7, etc) it was not possible... they changed.

I will give a better ideia.
A F2P game that you needs to buy cosmetics only is a free or paid game?
Windows 10 is basically that... a F2P game that you need to buy cosmetics only.

PS. You can't get MS supports for an unactivated copy too but that is the part of the service activation they are selling.
Bing Search's market analytics partly funds Windows 10 just like Google's Android. Nothing is free.
 
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rnlval

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Windows is known spyware but also sucks in general. Linux based gaming is why I'm getting into PC gaming.
Linux with Proton (DirectX clone) continues Microsoft's API way.

Read https://www.pcgamer.com/au/a-total-...s-proton-means-less-demand-for-native-titles/
Valve's Proton effectively killed native Linux API.

Steam Deck's SteamOS 3.0 with improved Proton (DirectX clone) killed native Linux ports.

If Apple was able to build a classic MacOS sandbox on Mach OS unix clone, then Valve can build a Windows DirectX clone sandbox on Linux.
 
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rnlval

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Proton getting better performance than Windows is very rare. And takes place only on AMD gpus coz their driver on linux rocks.

The biggest problem is how DXVK/VKD3D works. It translates DX libraries to Vulkan. So it will always have some overhead. We need native linux games with better Nvidia drivers.

Second problem is compatibility. Now, Valve said that they are aiming to make compatible game percentage near to 100 by the launch of Steam Deck, but we have to see how it turns out in reality.

Personally, one day, if I search for Windows vs Linux game performance on Nvidia and see no difference or even improvements, if I see that Proton miraculously managed to run 99.9999999% windows games without issues....

I will gladly install PopOS or Manjaro as second boot and game on it.
Proton's overhead between DirectX12 to Vulkan is minimal since both are low-level APIs and are heavily influenced by AMD Mantle API.
 
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Sean Mirrsen

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Linux with Proton (DirectX clone) continues Microsoft's API way.

Read https://www.pcgamer.com/au/a-total-...s-proton-means-less-demand-for-native-titles/
Valve's Proton effectively killed native Linux API.

Steam Deck's SteamOS 3.0 with improved Proton (DirectX clone) killed native Linux ports.

If Apple was able to build a classic MacOS sandbox on Mach OS unix clone, then Valve can build a Windows DirectX clone sandbox on Linux.

Except games getting Proton ports is better than games getting no ports at all. Whether it's Proton or native does not matter, what matters is support. Games will only start getting native ports when Linux is more than a shadow of an accepted gaming OS, and that won't happen unless something unifies the tangled mess of distros that generates more bug reports than profit for developers. Without Proton, without WINE, DXVK, and all the other wrappers, native Linux development is dead anyway. It will never get enough traction to matter, not when 95% of the world is happily using something else.
 
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Ev1L AuRoN

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I would love to ditch Windows for Linux, but gaming is the key factor keeping me from doing it. I already use Linux on my working laptop, but my main Rig still has windows on it since Gaming is the whole purpose of that machine.
Love Valve for doing gods work improving Linux gaming and of course the amazing community.
 

nerdface

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I'm talking about desktops. The area x86 has had to itself for years.

And by niche I mean that ARM mostly caters to one segment, huge as it is.

So valve just released a handheld, and now they’re working on power performance.

…pretty sure this isn’t a desktop thread…
 

ColdAfternoon

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Except games getting Proton ports is better than games getting no ports at all. Whether it's Proton or native does not matter, what matters is support. Games will only start getting native ports when Linux is more than a shadow of an accepted gaming OS, and that won't happen unless something unifies the tangled mess of distros that generates more bug reports than profit for developers. Without Proton, without WINE, DXVK, and all the other wrappers, native Linux development is dead anyway. It will never get enough traction to matter, not when 95% of the world is happily using something else.
That's silly. You support the latest ubuntu lts and call it a day.
 

rnlval

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Except games getting Proton ports is better than games getting no ports at all. Whether it's Proton or native does not matter, what matters is support. Games will only start getting native ports when Linux is more than a shadow of an accepted gaming OS, and that won't happen unless something unifies the tangled mess of distros that generates more bug reports than profit for developers. Without Proton, without WINE, DXVK, and all the other wrappers, native Linux development is dead anyway. It will never get enough traction to matter, not when 95% of the world is happily using something else.
I only revisited the Linux desktop when Microsoft limits Windows 11 for certain CPU generations.
 

Blond

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The sooner I can have a Linux distro that can play all games on Steam with no performance diff, the sooner I can dump Windows for good. However, as of right now this is a pipe dream.
Steam OS was the dream. All the Linux Functionality with a single targeted OS and standards would’ve done wonders for Linux but Valve had other ideas.
 
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Panajev2001a

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Steam OS was the dream. All the Linux Functionality with a single targeted OS and standards would’ve done wonders for Linux but Valve had other ideas.
True, but software support and the money needed to setup/complete/refine the software stack to the level of a Windows or macOS release (as much as we want to put them down, there is many millions in R&D, UX research, design, HW driver support, etc…).

… and again, you need the software. Native Linux games did not get a lot of traction.
 

Panajev2001a

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ARM is not a freebee open source. A license is required for ARM's IP usage.
Sure, but open source or not was not the key point of the worry around ARM licensing. I wonder if they have some RISCV prototypes, likely they do (although they surely have a perpetual ARM license, they also have their own compiler teams, CPU designers, and control the entire software stack on all the platforms their CPU’s operate so they can move to a new core or even design their own ISA at this point).
 

Panajev2001a

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That's silly. You support the latest ubuntu lts and call it a day.
Oh no way…


(Well Once upon a time…)