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AMD Finally RIP GCN! Welcome RDNA with Navi

ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
PR
AMD High-Performance Gaming Updates

AMD unveiled RDNA, the next foundational gaming architecture that was designed to drive the future of PC gaming, console, and cloud for years to come. With a new compute unit10 design, RDNA is expected to deliver incredible performance, power and memory efficiency in a smaller package compared to the previous generation Graphics Core Next (GCN) architecture. It is projected to provide up to 1.25X higher performance-per-clock11 and up to 1.5X higher performance-per-watt over GCN12, enabling better gaming performance at lower power and reduced latency.

RDNA will power the upcoming 7nm AMD Radeon RX 5700-series graphics cards which feature high-speed GDDR6 memory and support for the PCIe 4.0 interface.

During the keynote, Dr. Su showcased the power of RDNA and one of the new AMD Radeon RX 5700-series graphics cards in a head-to-head comparison with a RTX 2070 card running a Strange Brigade gameplay demo, beating the competition delivering incredible ~100 FPS gaming.13

AMD Radeon RX 5700-series graphics cards are expected to be available in July 2019. Learn more at the AMD E3 livestream event on June 10, 2019 at 3 pm PT.

10 AMD APUs and GPUs based on the Graphics Core Next and RDNA architectures contain GPU Cores comprised of compute units, which are defined as 64 shaders (or stream processors) working together. GD-142

11 Testing done by AMD performance labs 5/23/19, showing a geomean of 1.25x per/clock across 30 different games @ 4K Ultra, 4xAA settings. Performance may vary based on use of latest drivers. RX-327

12 Testing done by AMD performance labs 5/23/19, using the Division 2 @ 25x14 Ultra settings. Performance may vary based on use of latest drivers. RX-325

13 Testing done by AMD performance labs 5/23/19, using the Strange Brigade @ 25x14 Ultra settings. Performance may vary based on use of latest drivers. RX-328
Click to expand...

ANANDTECH
While the bulk of this morning’s AMD Computex keynote has been on AMD’s 3rdgeneration Ryzen CPUs and their underlying Zen 2 architecture, the company also took a moment to briefly touch upon its highly anticipated Navi GPU architecture and associated family of products. AMD didn’t go too deep here, but they have given us just enough to be tantalized ahead of a full reveal in the not too distant future. The first Navi cards will be the Radeon RX 5700 series, which are launching in July and on an architectural level will offer 25% better performance per clock per core and 50% better power efficiency than AMD’s current-generation Vega architecture. Meanwhile AMD isn’t offering much in the way of concrete details on performance, but they are showing it off versus NVIDIA’s GeForce RTX 2070 in the AMD-favorable game Strange Brigade.
Click to expand...

More at link: https://www.anandtech.com/show/1441...ducts-rx-5700-series-in-july-25-improved-perf

Now we can have better hopes for next-gen consoles.
 
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Ivellios

Ivellios

Member
All they need to do right now is put something to compete against 1660ti/RTX 2060 at competitive price and im sold.
 
ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
www.globenewswire.com

AMD Announces Next-Generation Leadership Products at Computex 2019 Keynote

— 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen™ desktop processor family based on new high-performance “Zen 2” core includes highest performance 12 core desktop processor ever1 — —...
www.globenewswire.com www.globenewswire.com

Notes are interesting.

10 AMD APUs and GPUs based on the Graphics Core Next and RDNA architectures contain GPU Cores comprised of compute units, which are defined as 64 shaders (or stream processors) working together. GD-142

11 Testing done by AMD performance labs 5/23/19, showing a geomean of 1.25x per/clock across 30 different games @ 4K Ultra, 4xAA settings. Performance may vary based on use of latest drivers. RX-327

12 Testing done by AMD performance labs 5/23/19, using the Division 2 @ 25x14 Ultra settings. Performance may vary based on use of latest drivers. RX-325

13 Testing done by AMD performance labs 5/23/19, using the Strange Brigade @ 25x14 Ultra settings. Performance may vary based on use of latest drivers. RX-328


Confirms 64SPs per CU like GCN.
 
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Evilms

Evilms

Banned
"We don't think the consumer should pay for things they don't really use," Scott Herkelman told us in a post-conference discussion, confirming the strategy of opposing RTXs with an architecture similar to the GeForce GTX 16xx but aimed at better performance.

Computex 2019 | Radeon RX 5700 (Navi) : nouvelle architecture RDNA, tous les détails à l'E3

Si l'on en sait désormais plus sur les processeurs Ryzen de 3e génération, AMD a été un peu moins prolixe sur Navi, se réservant pour l'E3 d...
www.inpact-hardware.com www.inpact-hardware.com
 
Agent_4Seven

Agent_4Seven

Tears of Nintendo
And yet again AMD only + - matching performance of existing NVIDIA GPUs almost a year later. I mean, for Christ's sake, 2070 is basically 1080, so for everyone who still has 1080 there's no point in upgrading to 2070 or 2080 cuz they won't get much out of this in terms of performance, and when it comes to 2080,... this fuckin thing is just way to expensive for what it is and not worth it.

So, I'm sure some people own Vega 56 or Vega 64, and when it comes to latter, it's basically + - 1080 and there's no reason to upgrade to RX 5700 unless you want to pay less for power and get these 10% more performance (we still have to wait and see if it's true or not). Ugh. I just don't know what AMD is doing and what they hope to gain or achive with this "matching performance" thing for years now. I mean, cool, I guess, you're at the same level now, a year later, but many people already bought 2070 or 2080, or better yet, sill using 1080 or 1080Ti,... I don't know, 5700 just feel and looks pointless to me.

I wonder if there'll be 5800 and 5900, cuz these does look a lot more interesting and more promising and especialy if they'll be priced well. $450-500 for 5900 with the performance of 2080Ti or better and with no HBM? Count me interested, otherwise don't even bother.
 
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P

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
CJY said:
Looking forward to PS5 using RadeonDNA
Click to expand...
It looks like the Raytracing extensions for Navi on the next generation consoles (rumour said it was HW support for PS5, wonder if it is for both and if both are using Navi or a similar Navi semi-custom GPU) rumours were true...
 
kraspkibble

kraspkibble

Permabanned.
super excited for RDNA cards! i love my RTX 2080 but nvidia need put in their place.

my first card was an AMD (R9 290) and i wanted to go back to them but just never made sense. i would love my next card to be an AMD card but we'll see.
 
SonGoku

SonGoku

Member
Panajev2001a said:
It looks like the Raytracing extensions for Navi on the next generation consoles (rumour said it was HW support for PS5, wonder if it is for both and if both are using Navi or a similar Navi semi-custom GPU) rumours were true...
Click to expand...
Could Sony/MS license imgtech RT?
Imagination announces ray tracing technology for licensing
They were the first to launch GPU hybrid rasterizing/raytracing apparently they have more advanced acceleration than Nvidia RTX
TynCQFs.jpg

i4S4SA9.jpg


Sony has worked with imgtech before in the PSVITA & PSClassic
 
P

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
SonGoku said:
Could Sony/MS license imgtech RT?
Imagination announces ray tracing technology for licensing
They were the first to launch GPU hybrid rasterizing/raytracing apparently they have more advanced acceleration than Nvidia RTX
TynCQFs.jpg

i4S4SA9.jpg


Sony has worked with imgtech before in the PSVITA & PSClassic
Click to expand...

It would be nice, but it could be that Sony/MS are financing software and HW enhancements already in AMD’s pipeline.

Edit: announced early May 2019, work on something like this could predate the announcement (even more so if they are using something similar and want to avoid infringing these or nVIDIA’s patents), and we are taking about possibly a console meant to launch in 2020... very very close, but interesting nonetheless...
 
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llien

llien

Member
GCN - 7 years
CUDA - 11 years
x86 - 39 years

All three are going to stay for a while.

"Buh microachitecha!" - yes yes, sure thing.
 
CJY

CJY

Banned
RIP in Peace GCN... You were never great, but will be fondly remembered.

Yep, Rest In peace in peace, etc.
 
S

shark sandwich

tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
50% increase in performance per watt vs Vega. So Vega 64 performance at 200W or Vega 56 performance at 140W

I’ve been guessing roughly Vega 56 performance for PlayStation 5 performance, and this would sure seem to indicate that Vega 56-like performance is about the best we can hope for. So, on par with a reasonably high end gaming PC from 3 years ago.

The wildcard is raytracing. I’m praying that PS5 will have some dedicated raytracing hardware.
 
Darius87

Darius87

Member
at this point navi likely not going to next box, maybe i'm wrong but it seems odd that any info has not leaked related xbox using navi, even though there's multiple leaks about multiples xbox sku's performance etc, and considering that sony invested more then billion in to it. my guess that ms will making something vega arch related apu for not only gaming purposes.
 
Ascend

Ascend

Member
Agent_4Seven said:
And yet again AMD only + - matching performance of existing NVIDIA GPUs almost a year later. I mean, for Christ's sake, 2070 is basically 1080, so for everyone who still has 1080 there's no point in upgrading to 2070 or 2080 cuz they won't get much out of this in terms of performance, and when it comes to 2080,... this fuckin thing is just way to expensive for what it is and not worth it.

So, I'm sure some people own Vega 56 or Vega 64, and when it comes to latter, it's basically + - 1080 and there's no reason to upgrade to RX 5700 unless you want to pay less for power and get these 10% more performance (we still have to wait and see if it's true or not). Ugh. I just don't know what AMD is doing and what they hope to gain or achive with this "matching performance" thing for years now. I mean, cool, I guess, you're at the same level now, a year later, but many people already bought 2070 or 2080, or better yet, sill using 1080 or 1080Ti,... I don't know, 5700 just feel and looks pointless to me.

I wonder if there'll be 5800 and 5900, cuz these does look a lot more interesting and more promising and especialy if they'll be priced well. $450-500 for 5900 with the performance of 2080Ti or better and with no HBM? Count me interested, otherwise don't even bother.
Click to expand...
Am I right to conclude that you're mad at AMD for not lowering nVidia prices? It has been known for quite a while that Navi will be a mid range product....
 
llien

llien

Member
This Cerny talk reminds me "OMG Raja" Hype.
The only guy that I have seen do major impact that deserves such expectations is Jim Keller.

KeooWMP.png


Did Athlon, Athlon 64.
Did Apple's A-series.
Back to AMD, did Zen.
Went to Tesla (Tesla drops nVidia chip for its own).
Now is a VP at Intel, cough. :)

Cerny is part of the game development since decades and helped shape successfull PS4, but what does he know about GPU development? He could have driven specific performance requirements in specific areas, but that's it.
 
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ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
Chiggs said:
I'd like to formally apologize to everyone on this forum (old and new) that I argued with about HBM being the future.
Click to expand...
It is for HPC ;)

And probably for gaming in some years after HBM3... GDDR6 development already slowed.
With HBM3 (2020) it will be cheaper, faster and lower consuming than GDDR6.
GDDR7 won't come before 2025 if it become true.
 
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somerset

somerset

Member
HBM was a *disaster*- massively expensive to make the chips, and deploy the chips. Runs hot and uses vastly *more* power than conventional DRAM (will still see denial of this obvious fact, even tho AMD HBM cards are power burners). AMD had one idiot advocate for HBM, and AMD allowed him to make the *same* chip 3 times (sucking up most of AMD's GPU R+D budgte) in the Fury, Vega 64 and Radeon 7 (each chip has the same specs). This idiot now leads GPU work at Intel, hahahahaha!

AMD announced a 1050TI level *tiny* die yeasterday that runs between the 1080 and 1080TI in games (the newer the engine, the closer to 1080TI performance). This is a game changer- even tho *this* part is of little interest for most current PC gemers with decent rigs.

After the consoles release later this year, AMD will announce the *real* competition - mid and high end GPUs based on the same tech. Sony and MS both want their moment of glory in the spotlight, so the good desktop stuff has to wait out the console launches.

It seems like Navi (final polaris like design) got cancelled, and the next-gen moved up into its place. Which also means the new consoles have *zero* current gen stuff in them. Indeed this tiny die 5700 from AMD will have a vast amount in common with the GPU in the APU of the Xbox Next.

GCN, the *instruction set*, will probably remain, just as code for the first IBM PC still runs on current CPUs from AMD and Intel. *But* the oringinal 8086 was a godawful 16-bit CISC design from Intel, yet Intel and AMD have been RISC since the days of the Pentium Pro/Pentium 2. You see *instruction set* is not the same as hardware architecture.

Dribblers who count the ALUs in the CU to suggest the new AMD design is the same as Polaris are prize *idiots*. People should resist talking about tech issues they do not understand.

The most important thing AMD said about the new GPU is that it has whole new memory sub-systems, the very change that made Zen so much better than Bulldozer (clue- Bulldozer had *great* ALUs). Yes, AMD gave a Zen make-over to its GPU line *two years* earlier than we hoped.

AMD's new GPU *leads* Turing. Tho absolute total performance will not beat Turing's best til AMD releases bigger dies. The race is now on for Nvidia, who has banked the farm on the new 7nm process at Samsung.

If Samsung doesn't work out, Nvidia is screwed. Korea vs Taiwan. Korea has done well til now- but the last time TSMC ws put against samsung (by Apple for its new phone chips a year or so back), TSMC wiped the floor with Samsung.

PS Nvidia's so-called 'ray tracing' in Turing is a *memory* and not 'processing' sub-system improvement. Every tech site gets this *wrong*. There are *zero* ray tracing units in Turing- all calculations are done on normal shader ALUs. Instead Turing better moves the data that represents the required variables into the shaders.

GPUs already solve the maths calc problem- indeed here they are *power* constrained. It is the efficiency in the movement of data (including compression/decompression) that makes the key difference in performance. Culling (doing less work when the work would not show up in the finished image) is also a big deal.
 
Dontero

Dontero

Banned
This is how you dupe people.
Create a thing, upgrade it and then change name.

We need to wait till E3 to actually have any proper info if this is not GCN.
For all intent and purposes i don't see how AMD will be doing GCN for business and RDNA for gaming if they don't share most of design.

Which means it is just upgraded GCN like Polaris was huge upgrade over previous GCN version.
They just rebranded it.
 
Ascend

Ascend

Member
somerset said:
HBM was a *disaster*- massively expensive to make the chips, and deploy the chips. Runs hot and uses vastly *more* power than conventional DRAM (will still see denial of this obvious fact, even tho AMD HBM cards are power burners).
Click to expand...
Expensive to make, yes, but you're factually wrong about its power consumption. The AMD cards having high power consumption had nothing to do with HBM. GCN simply becomes extremely inefficient at anything higher than 1000 MHz clock speed. If these cards had GDDR6, they would be even MORE power hungry...



somerset said:
PS Nvidia's so-called 'ray tracing' in Turing is a *memory* and not 'processing' sub-system improvement. Every tech site gets this *wrong*. There are *zero* ray tracing units in Turing- all calculations are done on normal shader ALUs. Instead Turing better moves the data that represents the required variables into the shaders.
Click to expand...
They use an ASIC on the GPU...
 
nani17

nani17

are in a big trouble
MiyazakiHatesKojima said:
Sony won yet again.

It will be interesting to see Xbox specs for its next gen console and whether they will be as powerful as the PS5.
Click to expand...

Please tell me your trolling. Do you buy a system based on power? Look at the Xbox One X most powerful console on the market but has fuck all games that attract players compared to the competition.

If Sony is less powerful I honestly don't care as long as they continue with the amazing exclusives
 
thelastword

thelastword

Banned
Ha, and some people told me that Navi will only be Polaris tier, but here it is with better performance over an RTX 2070....Some people also said that Navi is based on the same old GCN, when it was clear that it was not and AMD even said so many times in their slides.......These people then went on a tangent that we should forget AMD and listen to them or leakers.....Leakers this, leakers that, leakers said it's GCN, leakers said Navi is having problems......The journalists said this, the jounalists said that, the same journalists who said there would be No Vega 7nm, like they worked for AMD......The same journalists who said expect to hear a breakdown on Ryzen and Navi at CES.......So many pro's in this industry...Doing nothing but spreading FUD......


As it stands, I'm happy for RDNA, it's pretty much what I thought they would do with compute, boost it considerably and make it more effcient.....I guess what we will hear at E3 is how they have also boosted the PIxel Engine prowess of AMD GPU's too.......Vega is a card that does crazy well in raw shader performance and PP style engines, and RDNA will be the balance of pixel pushing and shader pipelines......NV won't have any advantage with games that just push pixels/geometry.....
 
Braldryr

Braldryr

Banned
MiyazakiHatesKojima said:
Sony won yet again.

It will be interesting to see Xbox specs for its next gen console and whether they will be as powerful as the PS5.
Click to expand...

I mean no disrespect when I say and ask this. But how can you say Sony is already winning without knowing what's happening with Xbox?

For me personally I want both publishers to do good as I will be getting both systems day 1. While I do not think there is anything wrong with having or wanting a preferred console I just think it's funny to call it GG based only what we know about 1 console.

Many suspect that Xbox Anaconda will be very powerful (more powerful than PS5) and of course we won't know how much more powerful until the information is official.

I guess we will find out in a week and a half
 
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MiyazakiHatesKojima

MiyazakiHatesKojima

Banned
Braldryr said:
I mean no disrespect when I say and ask this. But how can you say Sony is already winning without knowing what's happening with Xbox?

For me personally I want both publishers to do good as I will be getting both systems day 1. While I do not think there is anything wrong with having or wanting a preferred console I just think it's funny to call it GG based only what we know about 1 console.

Many suspect that Xbox Anaconda will be very powerful (more powerful than PS5) and of course we won't know how much more powerful until the information is official.

I guess we will find out in a week and a half
Click to expand...
I think I made the mistake of assuming that someone would take my first sentence as a joke for obvious reasons.

I do fear that Sony may have the less powerful console since Microsoft will do everything in their power to have the upper hand next generation. I still hope Sony and Cerny made some very smart architecture and engineering decision when designing the PS5 in order to compete with Microsoft's specs.
 
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