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[FireFly]

Bit in depth for me. Less transistors leads to the lesser power draw, I'm guessing?

Yes, and also architectural improvements and clockspeeds play a factor. The 5700 XT looks like it is clocked towards the end of its power curve, so actually the 5700, which is only around 12% slower at 1440p, is quite a bit more power efficient. You can see the performance per watt here:

EVGA GeForce RTX 2060 KO Review

The $299 EVGA GeForce RTX 2060 KO was announced just days ago, at CES, and is the most affordable entry into RTX gaming. What's surprising is that the KO uses a different GPU than other RTX 2060 Series cards. We take a closer look to see what NVIDIA is bringing to the fight with AMD's RX 5600 XT.

www.techpowerup.com

On that graph, the 5700 is 37% more power efficient than the Radeon VII. That is pretty good considering both cards are on the same process. Of course people will still say RDNA 1 is only more efficient because it is running on 7nm....

 

[Ascend]

On that graph, the 5700 is 37% more power efficient than the Radeon VII. That is pretty good considering both cards are on the same process. Of course people will still say RDNA 1 is only more efficient because it is running on 7nm....

This. People somehow forget that both the Radeon VII and the 5700(XT) are on the same node. Almost the same performance as the Radeon VII has been achieved, and they did it while using;

Over 20% less transistors
Over 20% smaller die size
2/3 of the compute units
2/3 of the TMUs
The same amount of ROPs
The same amount of L2 cache
Similar clocks
Less than half the bandwidth
Much narrower memory bus

And considering what the XSX has, an on APU nonetheless, and considering the max clock speeds of the PS5 GPU, RDNA2 is going to be a beast.

 

[ResilientBanana]

To this day I do not trust AMDFLOPS over NVIDIAFLOPS

 

[Aidah]

I hope it's actually good, but I'm not going with it either way.

All this talk of supercharged architecture new consoles and as always, they will both be mid tier in the grand scheme of things at launch.

Well, that's better than being low tier like last time. Especially since this time it's accompanied by a CPU that's also mid tier instead of super low tier, and storage that's actually high tier.

 

[me0wish]

What card are you currently rockin’?

I specifically got an Alienware (a brand I really hate) cause of their proprietary eGPU, and I got a 1080ti with it, then I realized that the 1070 that comes with the laptop was good enough, and new GPUs are probably going to come out soon, so I sold my 1080ti.

Yeah.. I didn't think I'd be waiting 4 years just to get a new GPU, and the Alienware experience has given me hell.

 

[martino]

From an architectural perspective, the 5700 XT has 22% less transistors, but only around 4% less performance at 1440p.

when you have 22% less transistors on your product, why is it near same price ?

 

[martino]

this is what happened over gen for amd gpu :

AMD shipped a lot of GPUs

With multiple channels and platforms, a lot of Radeons are out there

www.jonpeddie.com

consoles weight a lot for them

 

[The Skull]

I'm sure Lisa Su said RDAN 1 was like Ryzen 1000 series and that RDNA 2 would be like Zen 2, which RDNA 1 kind of is. Nearly 2070S performance for like $100 less but not without it's teething problems with drivers but they got power efficiency under control at least. Really hoping RDNA 2 shakes things up in a big way and gives us some real competition at all price points.

 

[The Skull]

when you have 22% less transistors on your product, why is it near same price ?

Didn't Readon VII launch for $699 and wasn't the 5700xt $399? That's over 22% cheaper right?

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Last I had heard is that the 3080 Ti won't be out the same time as the 3070 and 3080, as nividia wants to go back to releasing the Ti series a year after. This was something I recall reading and may no longer be true of course.

 

[diffusionx]

My prediction:
Will come out one year after nvidia launches 30 series.
10$ cheaper than 3070.
Will have none of the features.
Performance will be slightly worse than 3070.

Being a pc gamer has sucked for the last couple of years.

You forgot: uses 30% more power and there are massive driver issues

I want AMD to be successful, I have a Ryzen CPU, but until proven otherwise, their GPUs don’t cut it

 

[martino]

Didn't Readon VII launch for $699 and wasn't the 5700xt $399? That's over 22% cheaper right?

indeed, my price reference for nvidia was wrong

 

[The Skull]

You forgot: uses 30% more power and there are massive driver issues

30% more power? I mean Vega definitely sucked power unless it was undervolted but isn't the power draw of the 5600xt and 5700xt roughly on par with the 2060S and the 2070S? The drivers for the 5000 series have definitely been an issue though.

 

[GHG]

eh the 5700XT is already around 2070S. Of course big navi will be faster.

I'm saying if big navi is at the price of the 2070s but has 2080ti (or better) performance then it will really shake things up.

 

[Vawn]

Hey Listen. It's big Navi.

 

[V2Tommy]

I don't trust AMD to deliver (on anything) but I'd like to be proven wrong!

 

[BattleScar]

By enthusiast I hope they mean 3080 Ti tier. Been almost 10 years we haven’t had serious competition in the top-end.

Did everyone just forget that the R9 290X was faster than the GTX Titan...?

 

[Thugnificient]

Did everyone just forget that the R9 290X was faster than the GTX Titan...?

It also came out almost a year later. Titan came out in Feb 2013 and the R9 290X came out in Nov 2013. Titan Black was shortly after the R9 290X and expectedly shat on it. The competitor of the R9 290X was the 780 Ti which beat it for the first few years until NVIDIA effectively abandoned their 700 series whilst AMD's driver updates trickled down to their older cards leading to the "FineWine" label. For the first 2-3 years, the 780 Ti was faster than the R9 290X. Factor how well the OG Titan overclocked, it was faster than the R9 290X overall.

So nah there hasn't been a contest in the top end since the days of the 7970/7990 vs GTX 680/690 which was 8 years ago.

 

[kiphalfton]

Seems like the general consensus is "I want AMD to hit it out of the park [so I can buy an Nvidia graphics card at a cheaper price]".

Yeah people buy AMD graphics cards obviously, or they wouldn't continue to sell them, but is it ever actually really out of preference. Not trying to stir the pot, just seems like if price weren't an issue, pretty much everybody would buy Nvidia stuff.

 

[BattleScar]

It also came out almost a year later. Titan came out in Feb 2013 and the R9 290X came out in Nov 2013. Titan Black was shortly after the R9 290X and expectedly shat on it. The competitor of the R9 290X was the 780 Ti which beat it for the first few years until NVIDIA effectively abandoned their 700 series whilst AMD's driver updates trickled down to their older cards leading to the "FineWine" label. For the first 2-3 years, the 780 Ti was faster than the R9 290X. Factor how well the OG Titan overclocked, it was faster than the R9 290X overall.

So nah there hasn't been a contest in the top end since the days of the 7970/7990 vs GTX 680/690 which was 8 years ago.

When it came out doesn't really matter. GF100 came out over 6 months later than RV870 (and it was a literal furnace), but it was faster and that's all that mattered back then.
And Kepler was great when it launched, but it has aged terribly. Right now Tahiti (i.e the Radeon HD7970) which was once slower than GK104 (GTX 680) , is now faster than GK110B (GTX 780 Ti).

My point was, AMD were competitive right up until 2013 at the halo end of the market. It wasn't really until Maxwell came out that AMD really got shunted aside by Nvidia.

 

[Thugnificient]

When it came out doesn't really matter. GF100 came out over 6 months later than RV870 (and it was a literal furnace), but it was faster and that's all that mattered back then.
And Kepler was great when it launched, but it has aged terribly. Right now Tahiti (i.e the Radeon HD7970) which was once slower than GK104 (GTX 680) , is now faster than GK110B (GTX 780 Ti).

My point was, AMD were competitive right up until 2013 at the halo end of the market. It wasn't really until Maxwell came out that AMD really got shunted aside by Nvidia.

Of course when it comes out matters because time frame decides what competes against what. Kepler aging horribly is irrelevant because by the time it did age it was no longer top-tier so...

2013 is also still 7 years ago so yeah almost 10 years.

 

[GHG]

Seems like the general consensus is "I want AMD to hit it out of the park [so I can buy an Nvidia graphics card at a cheaper price]".

Yeah people buy AMD graphics cards obviously, or they wouldn't continue to sell them, but is it ever actually really out of preference. Not trying to stir the pot, just seems like if price weren't an issue, pretty much everybody would buy Nvidia stuff.

Yeh this is exactly the case for me.

Unless I get solid and sustained evidence that their drivers have changed for the better and that their cards can perform well in VR, sim racing titles and emulation, which hasn't happened yet as far as I'm concerned.

 

[-YFC-]

Another massive videocard....I just upgraded to a 2080ti and I could actually kill someone with it or crush a small child if I dropped it on them

Man all these high end cards are so damn massive. I had a random cheapo case and I bought vega64 from Asus and it didn't fit. I had to cut off some aluminum inside from the hdd cages in order to fit the card.
I thought with shrinking manufacturing processes we'd have smaller, cooler running cards, but yeah, that ain't the case.

 

[xool]

Next gen consoles are going to be outclassed by the time they launch aren't they. Order is restored

Last I had heard is that the 3080 Ti won't be out the same time as the 3070 and 3080, as nividia wants to go back to releasing the Ti series a year after. This was something I recall reading and may no longer be true of course.

Not sure if related but the rumor mill says Hauwei's chip embargo has meant spare capacity at TSMC at 7nm AND 5nm .. and both AMD and Nvidia have taken some .. this could put a new Nvidia card launch forward a few months I guess ??

 

[BattleScar]

Of course when it comes out matters because time frame decides what competes against what. Kepler aging horribly is irrelevant because by the time it did age it was no longer top-tier so...

2013 is also still 7 years ago so yeah almost 10 years.

To be fair, 2013 being 7 years ago kinda blows my mind. Fuck.

Seems like the general consensus is "I want AMD to hit it out of the park [so I can buy an Nvidia graphics card at a cheaper price]".

Yeah people buy AMD graphics cards obviously, or they wouldn't continue to sell them, but is it ever actually really out of preference. Not trying to stir the pot, just seems like if price weren't an issue, pretty much everybody would buy Nvidia stuff.

This is why AMD loses, even when they win. This is why GPU prices have been climbing rapidly generation to generation.

 

[SantaC]

Hey Listen. It's big Navi.

This is navi actually

 

[FireFly]

To be fair, 2013 being 7 years ago kinda blows my mind. Fuck.

Well after Intel's Core 2 launched it took AMD about 11 years to become competitive in the high end CPU space.

 

[teezzy]

My poor RTX 2070 already feeling dated

 

[Bolivar687]

I am ready to return to AMD.

 

[Spukc]

I am ready for AMD to lower the prices.

 

[llien]

505mm2 RDNA chip should be comfortably ahead of 2080Ti (and will likely cost way less).

...might definitely...

Insightful.

2080Ti is a 2yo card build on 12nm process, it won't be any accomplishment if they beat that two years later and with 7/7+nm GPUs...

Price, perhaps power consumption, is what will show if it is an accomplishment or not, not some imaginary e-peen competition between people who don't work for the either company, but happen to associate themselves with them.

RT performance

My prediction on RT: given what we get in the next gen consoles, it will matter as much as right now, which is quite close to "not at all".

Over 20% smaller die size

330mm2 vs 250mm2 => 25% smaller die size.

if price weren't an issue, pretty much everybody would buy Nvidia stuff.

If price weren't an issue, almost everybody would be the fastest card on the market.
Your statement makes no sense.

 

[sendit]

eh the 5700XT is already around 2070S. Of course big navi will be faster.

Only tells half the story. Can the 5700 XT do this:



Have a 2080TI. However, if it was between the 5700 XT:2070 Super. The option to use DLSS (and ray tracing) is a no brainer. 2070 Super.

 

[llien]

Only tells half the story. Can the 5700 XT do this:



Have a 2080TI. However, if it was between the 5700 XT:2070 Super. The option to use DLSS (and ray tracing) is a no brainer. 2070 Super.

What makes you think there is something magical about upscaling games with poor graphics? (ignoring the fact that Radeon Sharpening is off)

Comparison gallery of image scaling algorithms - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Original image:

Image that is being upscaled:

Upscaling using "Deep convolutional neural networks using perceptual loss"

Comparison gallery of image scaling algorithms - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

GitHub - xinntao/ESRGAN: ECCV18 Workshops - Enhanced SRGAN. Champion PIRM Challenge on Perceptual Super-Resolution. The training codes are in BasicSR.

ECCV18 Workshops - Enhanced SRGAN. Champion PIRM Challenge on Perceptual Super-Resolution. The training codes are in BasicSR. - xinntao/ESRGAN

github.com

 

[GHG]

What makes you think there is something magical about upscaling games with poor graphics?

Comparison gallery of image scaling algorithms - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Original image:

Image that is being upscaled:

Upscaling using "Deep convolutional neural networks using perceptual loss"

Comparison gallery of image scaling algorithms - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

GitHub - xinntao/ESRGAN: ECCV18 Workshops - Enhanced SRGAN. Champion PIRM Challenge on Perceptual Super-Resolution. The training codes are in BasicSR.

ECCV18 Workshops - Enhanced SRGAN. Champion PIRM Challenge on Perceptual Super-Resolution. The training codes are in BasicSR. - xinntao/ESRGAN

github.com

It's incredible tech so I don't know why there's a need to downplay it. It's available on Nvidia GPU's and it's proven to work very well in the titles that support it. That's a plus.

 

[sendit]

What makes you think there is something magical about upscaling games with poor graphics? (ignoring the fact that Radeon Sharpening is off)

Comparison gallery of image scaling algorithms - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Original image:

Image that is being upscaled:

Upscaling using "Deep convolutional neural networks using perceptual loss"

Comparison gallery of image scaling algorithms - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

GitHub - xinntao/ESRGAN: ECCV18 Workshops - Enhanced SRGAN. Champion PIRM Challenge on Perceptual Super-Resolution. The training codes are in BasicSR.

ECCV18 Workshops - Enhanced SRGAN. Champion PIRM Challenge on Perceptual Super-Resolution. The training codes are in BasicSR. - xinntao/ESRGAN

github.com

Machine learning is great isn't it? Let me know when AMD decides to do this.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

I like rooting for the outsider but considering that Nvidia will most likely have an advantage in raytracing and that DLSS is essentially magic which doubles my fps at almost zero cost, I'm still gonna get an RTX 3070.

 

[MightySquirrel]

I like rooting for the outsider but considering that Nvidia will most likely have an advantage in raytracing and that DLSS is essentially magic which doubles my fps at almost zero cost, I'm still gonna get an RTX 3070.

I'm surprised that somehing like RDR2 doesn't have DLSS implemented. Maybe the implementation takes way too long or requires too many resources and is the reason why we only see it in a few games.

 

[Kataploom]

So, another card that won't work after 6-12 months due to fucked up AMD drivers... I srsly want to love AMD but they just don't let me to

IDK how not many people talk about it more... BTW, hope they sort their stuff already after this one.

 

[llien]

Machine learning is great isn't it?

I don't think it means what you think it means.
Had it been that great, one wouldn't need 2007 looking game to make a point.

It's incredible tech

It is nothing, but fancy upscaling, it takes reality distortion field to be orgasmic about it.
It also has nothing to do with either NV or AMD, other people figured it out.

Let me know when AMD decides to do this.

Sure:

Testing AMD's new Radeon Image Sharpening: Is It Better than Nvidia's DLSS?

Today we're taking a deeper look into one of the new features that shipped with AMD's latest Navi GPUs: Radeon Image Sharpening. In short, RIS is a...

www.techspot.com

fucked up AMD drivers...

We tolerate Intel users suffering about AMD boards not supporting newest AMD CPUs, but NV users suffering from FUD about AMD drivers is a bit too much.

 

[Thugnificient]

I don't think it means what you think it means.
Had it been that great, one wouldn't need 2007 looking game to make a point.


It is nothing, but fancy upscaling, it takes reality distortion field to be orgasmic about it.
It also has nothing to do with either NV or AMD, other people figured it out.


Sure:

Testing AMD's new Radeon Image Sharpening: Is It Better than Nvidia's DLSS?

Today we're taking a deeper look into one of the new features that shipped with AMD's latest Navi GPUs: Radeon Image Sharpening. In short, RIS is a...

www.techspot.com

We tolerate Intel users suffering about AMD boards not supporting newest AMD CPUs, but NV users suffering from FUD about AMD drivers is a bit too much.

Someone’s a little salty.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Sure:

Testing AMD's new Radeon Image Sharpening: Is It Better than Nvidia's DLSS?

Today we're taking a deeper look into one of the new features that shipped with AMD's latest Navi GPUs: Radeon Image Sharpening. In short, RIS is a...

www.techspot.com

That video compares Radeon sharpening to an old DLSS version. DLSS 2.0 is miles ahead of both.

 

[llien]

DLSS 2.0 is miles ahead of both.

It's not hard to be ahead of 1.0, chuckle.

 

[Three]

Seems like the general consensus is "I want AMD to hit it out of the park [so I can buy an Nvidia graphics card at a cheaper price]".

Yeah people buy AMD graphics cards obviously, or they wouldn't continue to sell them, but is it ever actually really out of preference. Not trying to stir the pot, just seems like if price weren't an issue, pretty much everybody would buy Nvidia stuff.

Definitely I would go NVidia if power and price were equal, the drivers are something I've not had a good experience with with AMD. AMD having a more powerful card at a lower price though is what gets me to buy their cards sometimes.

 

[Rickyiez]

Hopefully it's not a massive hype that ended up only yet another marginally faster card

 

[Bernd Lauert]

It's not hard to be ahead of 1.0, chuckle.

I agree that 1.0 was terrible, but it's also not relevant anymore.

 

[Dontero]

Have a 2080TI. However, if it was between the 5700 XT:2070 Super. The option to use DLSS (and ray tracing) is a no brainer. 2070 Super.

I mean couple of FPS higher in one game. Sure. But this video shows exactly that both RTX and DLSS are worthless. Game looks the same between nvidia and amd on that comparison with difference being RTX killing half of framerate.

 

[adamosmaki]

both nvidia and amd need to cut prices down for next gen gpus. if we are getting 50% more performance than this gen gpus for a 50% more price then we have come nowhere. what i hope is 5700xt performance for their 200-250 gpus and 2080ti performance for 500 and not have to pay 1500for slightly better than 2080ti performance

 

[Ascend]

 

[BattleScar]

To this day I do not trust AMDFLOPS over NVIDIAFLOPS

Why? A FLOP is a FLOP. If you want to do floating point arithmetic a 10TF AMD GPU and a 10TF Nvidia GPU will perform exactly the same.

The problem is:
FLOP =/= Gaming performance

Which is why I've always been really annoyed at this and other forums constantly talking about fucking FLOPS.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Why? A FLOP is a FLOP. If you want to do floating point arithmetic a 10TF AMD GPU and a 10TF Nvidia GPU will perform exactly the same.

The problem is:
FLOP =/= Gaming performance

Which is why I've always been really annoyed at this and other forums constantly talking about fucking FLOPS.

You’re right, a FLOP is a FLOP, however, the efficiency of a FLOP is all in the way the hardware is designed. If the design is not as good as the competition, then you’re getting less performance per FLOP.