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AMD’s Big Navi GPU Codenamed ‘Sienna Cichlid’ Will Allegedly Feature 5120 Stream Processors.

tusharngf

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No I meant 40+40 for Big Navi, the premium model, and 36+36 for the lesser model, just like 5700 and 5700XT. PS5 Pro gonna be a 20.6-22TF beast few years from now! Day one for me.


Cerny will never leave 36CU for his entire life. lol. #cerny36cu'sforlife
 

Bo_Hazem

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I will buy AMD until AMD closes up shop.

Irrational but I will support them no matter what, don't care about the last 10%.

Team Red for the win!

 

Dampf

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DLSS 2.0 in that video comparison is using 2080Ti, you should know better. And it still has some major flows. Checkerboarding is old and it should get smarter now, and it goes toe-to-toe with native 4K 2080Ti.

Timestamped:




And more flaws of DLSS 2.0 exaggerated sharpening

Good on you for pointing out the flaws in this specific game but completely ignore all the image quality improvements that DLSS brings to the table.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Good on you for pointing out the flaws in this specific game but completely ignore all the image quality improvements that DLSS brings to the table.

It's still far from flawless, and people have no idea that there are many players in the field, take a look at AMD FidelityFX CAD vs DLSS 2.0, and AMD has a far inferior card here:



If you watch it in 4K, the DLSS 2.0 has an extremely minor advantage over it, probably due to much stronger GPU as well.
 
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Mister Wolf

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Yeah, but in that specific game problems are more severe as the issue is apparently that the engine does not give DLSS the right motion vectors.

However, if we talk about overall image quality it even improves that quite nicely in Death Stranding with an overall cleaner image, more details and better temporal stability.



Nothing new. People like to have the most recent stuff.

I love how we have these people nitpicking DLSS but cant name a better or equal alternative.
 
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Dampf

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It's still far from flawless, and people have no idea that there are many players in the field, take a look at AMD FidelityFX CAD vs DLSS 2.0, and AMD has a far inferior card here:

The reason Fidelity does so well in this comparison is because the comparison is at 4K, so the rendering resolution of FidelityFX is still very high, much higher than your 1440p or 1080p monitor from which you are viewing this, I assume. So differences are hard to spot.

Digital Foundry comparisons are better in that regard because they zoom into the 4K material so you can easily see the differences on all kinds of screens, and there DLSS takes a very clear lead. And that's logical since FidelityFX is upscaling+sharpening versus DLSS which is deep learning reconstruction, these are two entirely different techniques.

I am not saying DLSS has no flaws, but it's an awesome technology from an IQ and performance standpoint and it will only get better as the DL model gets trained longer and stuff like false motion vectors with the Decima engine gets fixed.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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The reason Fidelity does so well in this comparison is because the comparison is at 4K, so the rendering resolution of FidelityFX is still very high, much higher than your 1440p or 1080p monitor from which you are viewing this, I assume. So differences are hard to spot.

Digital Foundry comparisons are better in that regard because they zoom into the 4K material so you can easily see the differences on all kinds of screens, and there DLSS takes a very clear lead. And that's logical since FidelityFX is upscaling+sharpening versus deep learning reconstruction, two entirely different techniques.

I am not saying DLSS has no flaws, but it's an awesome technology from an IQ and performance standpoint and it will only get better as the DL model gets trained longer and stuff like false motion vectors with the Decima engine gets fixed.

DLSS is an awesome tech, just like checkerboarding and FidelityFX. And I'm viewing in a 4K tv, and can spot pretty minor difference in one frame, but here checkerboarding 4K on PS4 Pro vs native resolution of that native resolution before image reconstruction:



Around the back bolts you get very minor, tiny flickering/aliasing in FidelityFX compared to DLSS 2.0, not a deal breaker.
 
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Dampf

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DLSS is an awesome tech, just like checkerboarding and FidelityFX. And I'm viewing in a 4K tv, and can spot pretty minor difference in one frame, but here checkerboarding 4K on PS4 Pro vs native resolution of that native resolution before image reconstruction:



Around the back bolts you get very minor, tiny flickering/aliasing in FidelityFX compared to DLSS 2.0, not a deal breaker.
Yes checkerboarding is a cool technique and it works wonders for the PS4 Pro, that much is certain. Checkerboarding is reconstruction too, just like DLSS but they work quite differently in a lot of areas. Fidelity FX is not comparable to both of these, since that is an upscaling and sharpening technique.

Well if the quality on your 4K TV is good enough for you with FidelityFX then great, you can use it for a nice performance boost. But the thing is, that flickering/aliasing you see is the difference between a native 4K image (I am aware you are watching a DLSS comparison, see below) and a 1600p image (I assume FidelityFX renders at a resolution like that).

All FidelityFX does is just rendering at a lower resolution, like 1600p, adding a little sharpening filter to make it appear sharper and outputting it as 4K. However, with this technique no new details are added, you play at 1600p, basically. There are a lot of games where you can actually choose your render resolution with a little slider. It's exactly that with the difference of added sharpening (which can be added by turning it on in Nvidia control panel, or AMD's RIS)

With DLSS however, it adds detail to the rendering resolution of just 1440p in Quality mode and it does it so well that it's image quality exceeds native 4K rendering in a lot of areas like temporal stability and detail. DLSS does that because it was trained with 16K feed of games, much higher res than 4K. So there, you truly have a 4K image with the performance of 1440p - around 8-12% DLSS cost. And that kind of feat is truly outstanding and is not achieved by checkerboarding at all.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Yes checkerboarding is a cool technique and it works wonders for the PS4 Pro, that much is certain. Checkerboarding is reconstruction too, just like DLSS but they work quite differently in a lot of areas. Fidelity FX is not comparable to both of these, since that is an upscaling and sharpening technique.

Well if the quality on your 4K TV is good enough with FidelityFX then great, you can use it for a nice performance boost. But the thing is, that flickering/aliasing you see is the difference between a native 4K image (I am aware you are watching a DLSS comparison, see below) and a 1600p image (I assume FidelityFX renders at a resolution like that).

All FidelityFX does is just rendering at a lower resolution, like 1600p, adding a little sharpening filter to make it appear sharper and outputting it as 4K. However, with this technique no new details are added, you play with 1600p resolution, basically. There are a lot of games where you can actually choose your render resolution with a little slider. It's exactly that with the difference of added sharpening (which can be added by turning it on in Nvidia control panel, or AMD's RIS)

With DLSS however, it adds detail to the rendering resolution of just 1440p in Quality mode and it does it so well that it's image quality exceeds native 4K rendering in a lot of areas like temporal stability and detail. DLSS does that because it was trained with 16K feed of games, much higher res than 4K. So there, you truly have a 4K image with the performance of 1440p - around 8-12% DLSS cost. And that kind of feat is truly outstanding and is not achieved by checkerboarding at all.

With DF needing Epic Games to tell them that the UE5 gameplay demo was actually 1440p, and they couldn't tell if it's not native 4K, I think there are still some untold features to be revealed.

 

Dampf

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With DF needing Epic Games to tell them that the UE5 gameplay demo was actually 1440p, and they couldn't tell if it's not native 4K, I think there are still some untold features to be revealed.

Alex from Digital Foundry clarified this later, the reason why they couldn't pixel count was because there were no straight edges:


the reason why this defies Pixel counting is because it has no straight edges, it does not look like 4k native or something

But in the end I don't think it matters that much. The PS5 show already proved that it is a very capable machine, running all of the games at native 4K and they were even using Raytracing. Sure with a reconstruction technique like DLSS you could magically turn 30 FPS games into 60 FPS games, but the games still look great as they are, and even in the future when PS5 has to drop down to 1800p or similar, Sonys checkerboarding technique will help them. The difference between 1800p and 4K is minimal anyway.
 

Bo_Hazem

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Alex from Digital Foundry clarified this later, the reason why they couldn't pixel count was because there were no straight edges:




But in the end I don't think it matters that much. The PS5 show already proved that it is a very capable machine, running all of the games at native 4K and they were even using Raytracing. Sure with a reconstruction technique like DLSS you could magically turn 30 FPS games into 60 FPS games, but the games still look great as they are, and even in the future when PS5 has to drop down to 1800p or similar, Sonys checkerboarding technique will help them. The difference between 1800p and 4K is minimal anyway.

I would say that true 4K games are extremely sharp, some have 4K but they look somehow soft. The Halo E3 2018 trailer looks insanely sharp, and even the downgraded one up close, the medium. PS5 games are as well a massive upgrade in clarity.

The major difference I see so far is PS5 having ridiculous draw distance clarity, look at this screenshot I made (there is a shadow glitch for Ratchet, you know pre alpha):



Look at the distant graphics, that's shockingly screaming next gen! Zoom in. Mostly SSD streaming polygon budget per frame instead of traditional LOD's.
 
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Ascend

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I wouldn't base my buying decision on solely DLSS, just like I wouldn't base it on solely RTX. There are many things to take into account when going for a graphics card. General compatibility is one where nVidia generally wins out. Value is one where AMD generally wins out. There are multiple advantages and disadvantages to both. I generally go for AMD, because value is quite high on my list of priorities.

I also think that part of the issues that people face with AMD is them coming from an nVidia system. Leftovers from nVidia drivers cause a bunch of issues, and inevitably there are more people switching from nVidia to AMD rather than the other way around, simply because many more people have been using nVidia for ages. Obviously when they encounter issues, they switch back in less than a few weeks. AMD is infamous for their drivers, but nVidia also has had their fair share of drivers that literally kills cards.

People are very skeptical of AMD, and it's not without good reason. I do think that the skepticism is a bit too strong this time. If we use the upcoming consoles as a reference, RDNA2 is no slouch. Being able to pack 52CUs + an 8C/16T CPU + 16GB of GDDR6 + 1TB SSD on a 315W PSU is no joke. This indicates that the higher power consumption is basically fixed. And the clocks on the PS5 GPU also says quite a bit. They have been optimizing their architectures really well lately, ever since Polaris came out. People have been constantly comparing AMD to nVidia, that they fail to see the huge leaps that AMD actually made compared to their own tech in their latest three iterations.

It is not impossible for AMD to be on par (if not surpass) nVidia's flagship this time around. Yes yes, people say that every time, but this time things can actually be different. Yes yes, I know people say that every time too. But there are multiple things at play here, especially on the semiconductor manufacturer front.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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I wouldn't base my buying decision on solely DLSS, just like I wouldn't base it on solely RTX. There are many things to take into account when going for a graphics card. General compatibility is one where nVidia generally wins out. Value is one where AMD generally wins out. There are multiple advantages and disadvantages to both. I generally go for AMD, because value is quite high on my list of priorities.

I also think that part of the issues that people face with AMD is them coming from an nVidia system. Leftovers from nVidia drivers cause a bunch of issues, and inevitably there are more people switching from nVidia to AMD rather than the other way around, simply because many more people have been using nVidia for ages. Obviously when they encounter issues, they switch back in less than a few weeks. AMD is infamous for their drivers, but nVidia also has had their fair share of drivers that literally kills cards.

People are very skeptical of AMD, and it's not without good reason. I do think that the skepticism is a bit too strong this time. If we use the upcoming consoles as a reference, RDNA2 is no slouch. Being able to pack 52CUs + an 8C/16T CPU + 16GB of GDDR6 + 1TB SSD on a 315W PSU is no joke. This indicates that the higher power consumption is basically fixed. They have been optimizing their architectures really well lately, ever since Polaris came out. People have been constantly comparing AMD to nVidia, that they fail to see the huge leaps that AMD actually made compared to their own tech in their latest three iterations.

It is not impossible for AMD to be on par (if not surpass) nVidia's flagship this time around. Yes yes, people say that every time, but this time things can actually be different. Yes yes, I know people say that every time too. But there are multiple things at play here, especially on the semiconductor manufacturer front.

For AMD, it's more important to have market share than just having the best performant card out there. They're doing insanely good lately. Their drivers we're unstable but last May 15th update solved an issue I was facing with sudden HDMI 2.0 signal cut off. Never seen that issue since then.

Aligning with Sony and MS, along with other companies like Apple, left arrogant Nvidia dry with only the Switch outside the desktop PC market.
 
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DonJuanSchlong

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I'm completely manufacturer agnostic between the two rivals. As matter a fact I'll lever throw Intel into the mix. WHOEVER can provide me with the best performance, gets my money. It used to be Intel for me in regards to CPU, and my past 3 gpu's were all Nvidia, after switching from an AMD r9 390x a few years ago.

If AMD cannot beat out Nvidia in the enthusiast market with big navi, I'll continue to go with the proven God's of graphics. And I'm pretty much decided with AMD as processors from here on out, till Intel can give me a reason to come back to them.
 
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ScaryBrandon

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I would say that true 4K games are extremely sharp, some have 4K but they looks somehow soft. The Halo E3 2018 trailer looks insanely sharp, and even the downgraded one up close, the medium. PS5 games are as well a massive upgrade in clarity.

The major difference I see so far is PS5 having ridiculous draw distance clarity, look at this screenshot I made (there is a shadow glitch for Ratchet, you know pre alpha):


Look at the distant graphics, that's shockingly screaming next gen! Zoom in. Mostly SSD streaming polygon budget per frame instead of traditional LOD's.
They were so focused on the distant textures ssd power that they forgot to add a shadow to the main character. He looks like he is floating :messenger_tears_of_joy:.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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Sure, if you include onboard GPU's which NVIDIA has none of. NVIDIA still wrecked them in discrete GPU's which is what matters.

AMD's been the underdogs for too long, so them to surpass NVIDIA in the market share is huge. Eventually, they'll produce superior cards, especially with their new 3D stack method.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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They were so focused on the distant textures ssd power that they forgot to add a shadow to the main character. He looks like he is floating :messenger_tears_of_joy:.

Yeah made that disclaimer as it fucks your eyes when you look at it :lollipop_tears_of_joy: But understandably it's a pre-alpha build, glitches happen.
 

Azurro

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I'm almost sure the ps5 will be half the TF of that. Maybe ps6/pro... Unless the SSD adds teraflops... Not like I haven't heard that before.

As Captain Kirk would say...show me the receipts, sporto. Show me a few posters saying the SSD will add teraflops to the PS5.
 
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Razvedka

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I would say that true 4K games are extremely sharp, some have 4K but they look somehow soft. The Halo E3 2018 trailer looks insanely sharp, and even the downgraded one up close, the medium. PS5 games are as well a massive upgrade in clarity.

The major difference I see so far is PS5 having ridiculous draw distance clarity, look at this screenshot I made (there is a shadow glitch for Ratchet, you know pre alpha):



Look at the distant graphics, that's shockingly screaming next gen! Zoom in. Mostly SSD streaming polygon budget per frame instead of traditional LOD's.

I think R&C looks phenomenal, best 'next gen' game showcased so far. Still.. I just want to say that I think the deck of that ship is like..PS4 or even Xbox 360 tier. I dunno but for some reason I just get reminded of 'Perfect Dark Zero' when I look at it.
 
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DonJuanSchlong

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As Captain Kirk would say...show me the receipts, sporto. Show me a few posters saying the SSD will add teraflops to the PS5.
Nah I'm not the kinda guy to call ppl out like that. But you are more than welcome to read through the speculation thread, or the numerous SSD threads where people were saying that left and right. The search function could help a bunch too. If your account was active around the time of Cerny's presentation, you'd be lying if you said you didn't see the threads about additional TF, higher framerate, etc. People were acting like it was the GPU lmfao. But I'm sure you'll only see what you want to see, so best of luck!
 
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Azurro

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Nah I'm not the kinda guy to call ppl out like that. But you are more than welcome to read through the speculation thread, or the numerous SSD threads where people were saying that left and right. The search function could help a bunch too. If your account was active around the time of Cerny's presentation, you'd be lying if you said you didn't see the threads about additional TF, higher framerate, etc. People were acting like it was the GPU lmfao. But I'm sure you'll only see what you want to see, so best of luck!

Let me run that through Google BS translate: "Oh fuck, I need to actually provide proof for my BS? I was only talking BS because I'm a silly, silly, silly fanboy that doesn't understand anything about the SSD but the PS5 has it so it has to suck and amount to nothing!! I need to back out now because I was called out on it and I know I was talking BS".

:)
 

Bo_Hazem

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I think R&C looks phenomenal, best 'next gen' game showcased so far. Still.. I just want to say that I think the deck of that ship is like..PS4 or even Xbox 360 tier. I dunno but for some reason I just get reminded of 'Perfect Dark Zero' when I look at it.

I think you meant "cartoonish", well, it's a cartoonish game not photorealistic. But the insane detail in the fur and other stuff can't be considered something less than next gen, but cartoonish assets usually are great in current gen but draw distance and deeper texture adds the next gen flavor.
 
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Razvedka

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I think you meant "cartoonish", well, it's a cartoonish game not photorealistic. But the insane detail in the fur and other stuff can't be considered something less than next gen, but cartoonish assets usually are great in current gent but draw distance and deeper texture adds the next gen flavor.

I think it's just the way they did the texture? I remember going 'wow, PDZ wall textures look really cool' when I was like 15 or whatever.


(Perfect Dark Zero, launch title for Xbox 360)

So I guess it isn't a criticism it just reminded me of the 360 lol. I get that R&C is going for surrealistic and cartoonish/exaggerated proportions vs realistic. But that damn deck texture man..

My eyes went to the floor of that ship almost immediately, just like how in PDZ I would stop what I was doing to look at the damn walls.
 
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DonJuanSchlong

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Let me run that through Google BS translate: "Oh fuck, I need to actually provide proof for my BS? I was only talking BS because I'm a silly, silly, silly fanboy that doesn't understand anything about the SSD but the PS5 has it so it has to suck and amount to nothing!! I need to back out now because I was called out on it and I know I was talking BS".

:)
This sounds like another episode of "Tales from the salty fanboy". Why should I quote these people, so that you and the other Sonybros can stalk my profile, bait me, and try and mass report me? I'm on the forums to have open, peaceful discussions, not fanboy battles. It's just not my style bro. If you are too lazy or lack the skills to search the forums (which you won't have to look hard to find), then I honestly don't know what to tell you?

Maybe take some shrooms one day, lose your ego, and come back with an open mind. It must suck to always try to incite a console war, and to try and belittle someone for not playing that game with you.
 
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Azurro

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This sounds like another episode of "Tales from the salty fanboy". Why should I quote these people, so that you and the other Sonybros can stalk my profile, bait me, and try and mass report me? I'm on the forums to have open, peaceful discussions, not fanboy battles. It's just not my style bro. If you are too lazy or lack the skills to search the forums (which you won't have to look hard to find), then I honestly don't know what to tell you?

Maybe take some shrooms one day, lose your ego, and come back with an open mind. It must suck to always try to incite a console war, and to try and belittle someone for not playing that game with you.

You made an inflammatory assertion, it's your responsibility to prove it when asked. If you can't (and we know you can't), then just say "I'm sorry guys, I am just a fanboy and was talking BS" and move on, it isn't hard. :)
 
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DonJuanSchlong

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Lads, can we leave the console war stuff out of the thread please? There are tons of threads to get your war/bait on and let your console flag fly.
For reference Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem made a simple mistake by saying ps5, so I made a comment in jest, alluding to what several posters have said in the past. And out if no where, the white Knight known as Azurro Azurro comes out to defend his gracious platform, without realizing the context.



No I meant 40+40 for Big Navi, the premium model, and 36+36 for the lesser model, just like 5700 and 5700XT. PS5 gonna be a 20.6-22TF beast few years from now! Day one for me.
I'm almost sure the ps5 will be half the TF of that. Maybe ps6/pro... Unless the SSD adds teraflops... Not like I haven't heard that before.
That's a typo, meant PS5 Pro chiplet. I think you should've understood the conversation as you lol'ed one of them.



You made an inflammatory assertion, it's your responsibility to prove it when asked. If you can't (and we know you can't), then just say "I'm sorry guys, I am just a fanboy and was talking BS" and move on, it isn't hard. :)
I never made any statement as a fact, as you can clearly see. Read the appended text to see why you look like the biggest fanboy right now, by still trying to argue over something you can easily fact check by 1) reading the forums or 2) taking off the fanboy googles. Again, if you are too lazy to see for yourself, I have nothing else to say to you. Have a good day sir.
 
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Bo_Hazem

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For reference Bo_Hazem Bo_Hazem made a simple mistake by saying ps5, so I made a comment in jest, alluding to what several posters have said in the past. And out if no where, the white Knight known as Azurro Azurro comes out to defend his gracious platform, without realizing the context.










I never made any statement as a fact, as you can clearly see. Read the appended text to see why you look like the biggest fanboy right now, by still trying to argue over something you can easily fact check by 1) reading the forums or 2) taking off the fanboy googles. Again, if you are too lazy to see for yourself, I have nothing else to say to you. Have a good day sir.

No need to get worked up, people. Relax. :messenger_winking_tongue:
 
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Bo_Hazem

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I think it's just the way they did the texture? I remember going 'wow, PDZ wall textures look really cool' when I was like 15 or whatever.


(Perfect Dark Zero, launch title for Xbox 360)

So I guess it isn't a criticism it just reminded me of the 360 lol. I get that R&C is going for surrealistic and cartoonish/exaggerated proportions vs realistic. But that damn deck texture man..

My eyes went to the floor of that ship almost immediately, just like how in PDZ I would stop what I was doing to look at the damn walls.

It only makes Perfect Dark Zero ahead of its time ;) The most impressive things in Ratchet and Clank are the insane character model/fur and the endless draw distance. The higher resolution assets and native 4K are an expected upgrade.
 
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