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News Spoilers All The Last of Us 2 leaks/spoilers in here and nowhere else.

DragoonKain

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I'm finally catching up on some of the drama with this game since I avoided it. For the people upset that some people didn't love the game and saying "The story didn't go the way you wanted so now you're gonna whine about it." Ummm... isn't that what everyone does in every medium where the story doesn't go the way you'd like it to go?

If a story goes somewhere people feel hurts the potential of the plot and hurts what the story could've been, then of course people aren't going to like it. The question is: does what comes after prove that the choices were justified. In this case, I don't think so. All my fears after Joel died were confirmed. The story really suffered without him. Ellie's character development suffered. If anything she regressed in this.
 

Cerberus_X

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Lol reading the comments here I think my opinion will be unpopular.

When we switched to Abby I hated it and didn’t want to play as her but then the deeper I got the more I enjoyed playing as Abby and understanding and seeing it from her point of view, switch Ellie and Abby around they would both go and do exactly what they needed to do for revenge.

the final battle I didn’t wanna see either die, Abby gained closure from helping Lev and Yara, even after killing Joel she was having nightmares but saving Lev and Yara her nightmares stopped and you see her dad In her dream in that room smiling and happy. Her cutting Lev down From the pillar and carrying him/her To the boat was exactly like watching Joel escape with Ellie from the hospital. ND are clever and have deeply thought about how This plays out.

I do feel like Ellie believed only revenge was the way, you could tell she also felt guilty for how she treated Joel in the years/months upto his death and Not forgiving him, that made it even more hard on herself.

I do think the last of us is about Joel as the story started with him, and him not being there just didn’t feel right, but then again I feel as if they couldn’t and wouldn’t be able to do a part 2 if one of the 2 didn’t die. It had to be one of them or there’s no motivation for a part 2.
 
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WarrenD

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Ending it like that didn't make me feel that way at all.
I wasn't expecting some pay off. I knew there was going to be a lesson for these characters. I don't even think I would have found satisfaction in ending Abby's life....... I felt sorry for both of them to be honest. Sounds corny but I felt uncomfortable battering Ellie in the theatre, then beating down a dishevelled Abby on the beach.
However, I found the whole level dedicated to getting Yara medical supplies.......for her to die. And then going after Lev to get him back only for him to find his mom died and then Yara gets killed for it. So 2 wasted trips! 😂
I'll play game+ and see if I can appreciate those trips more.

Side note: Does Ellie ever ask about Marlene? Like isn't she wondering where her foster carer is because that's basically who she was to Ellie.
Oh don’t get me wrong, it wasn’t the walking away that annoyed me. It was the entire journey. I do appreciate the lesson in a way, it was the build up that I found stupid. I’ve travelled that far, I’ve done terrible things to people I have little issue with (WLF, scars, even releasing infected in the slavers camps) all in pursuit of revenge. I’ve stealth killed hundreds of people. I’ve found my target and got a great opportunity to kill them. After everything I’ve been through you’d expect me to want it done. I don’t take the opportunity and Abby doesn’t even want to.

I literally have to threaten to slit a child’s throat to get this fight to happen. That’s how desperate I am to get this done and then nothing. I lose some fingers and give up. It just felt flat.

Let me put it another way. I can’t help but feel if this was 2 guys doing this the writing would have been slated as a show of machismo, a display of toxic masculinity by forcing a fight on these circumstances.
 

PanzerAzel

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I’m still failing to understand the relevance of the two love triangles in the game. Why was pregnancy such a predominant theme? What was the point of Dina coming out and saying she was pregnant? What was the point of Mel being angry at Abby over Owen? Why should anyone care about the relational dynamics and soap opera teen drama bullshit?

It all felt incredibly contrived, out of place, tacked-on, and ultimately irrelevant to the main narrative arc. Does Druckmann have a teenage daughter who helped co-write it? The whole thing was cringe and felt like it was targeted towards a young female demographic. It almost feels like they want to make a romance and relationship drama.
 
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I’m still failing to understand the relevance of the two love triangles in the game. Why was pregnancy such a predominant theme? What was the point of Dina coming out and saying she was pregnant? What was the point of Mel being angry at Abby over Owen? Why should anyone care about the relational dynamics and soap opera teen drama bullshit?

It all felt incredibly contrived, out of place, tacked-on, and ultimately irrelevant to the main narrative arc. Does Druckmann have a teenage daughter who helped co-write it? The whole thing was cringe and felt like it was targeted towards a young female demographic. It almost feels like they want to make a romance and relationship drama.
Creating new life vs destroying life, it's a revenge tale where a person's quest for revenge puts pregnant women in the crossfire more than once, the message is kinda obvious I would think, honestly.
 
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PanzerAzel

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Creating new life vs destroying life, it's a revenge tale where a person's quest for revenge puts pregnant women in the crossfire more than once, the message is kinda obvious I would think, honestly.
Came off to me as more of an excuse to include this for cheap emotional manipulations rather than to effect any grander meaning to the core message the game’s attempting to convey. Perhaps if the writing was better executed I’d feel differently, but everything this game does feels largely inconsequential to what its end goal is, which is why it ultimately doesn’t achieve it.
 
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tassletine

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I'm finally catching up on some of the drama with this game since I avoided it. For the people upset that some people didn't love the game and saying "The story didn't go the way you wanted so now you're gonna whine about it." Ummm... isn't that what everyone does in every medium where the story doesn't go the way you'd like it to go?

If a story goes somewhere people feel hurts the potential of the plot and hurts what the story could've been, then of course people aren't going to like it. The question is: does what comes after prove that the choices were justified. In this case, I don't think so. All my fears after Joel died were confirmed. The story really suffered without him. Ellie's character development suffered. If anything she regressed in this.
I agree. To me it's like they didn't realise that the pairing of Joel and Ellie was made the original stick out -- Here, it almost feels like you're playing Resident Evil.
The game may be insanely polished and the gameplay great, but the story is bog standard and does backflips to justify it's self.
 
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tassletine

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I’m still failing to understand the relevance of the two love triangles in the game. Why was pregnancy such a predominant theme? What was the point of Dina coming out and saying she was pregnant? What was the point of Mel being angry at Abby over Owen? Why should anyone care about the relational dynamics and soap opera teen drama bullshit?

It all felt incredibly contrived, out of place, tacked-on, and ultimately irrelevant to the main narrative arc. Does Druckmann have a teenage daughter who helped co-write it? The whole thing was cringe and felt like it was targeted towards a young female demographic. It almost feels like they want to make a romance and relationship drama.
I think that's exactly what they did and that's why people are angry. ND literally took a genre (FPS) that's aimed at young males and flipped it. They wanted to make a Hunger Games style franchise and you can bet this plays into the upcoming TV show.
What I imagined happened is that ND made the decision to go female centric, around the time everyone else did (Ghostbusters movie etc) and then feedback from testers pushed it into the shape it's in now.

I'm mostly surprised at all the mental backflips the plot does to hammer home it's point.

NEIL : You play as Abby THE KILLER -- Then you empathise with her. I'm a genius!
Focus testers: Are you sure?
Neil: Yes! Just playing as her will have you empathise with her.
Focus testers: I'm not sure that's how video games work, Neil?
Neil: Yes they do. They definitely do. Just do it. I'm a genius.
After focus testing a few months later: They're still not empathising with her Neil. I don't think this is going to work.
Neil: It'll be fine. Make her afraid of heights.
After focus testing : Nope, that didn't work either.
Neil: It'll be fine. I'm a genius. Give her a kid to protect.
After focus testing : Nope!
Neil: She's got body dismorphia! YES!!!
Focus testers : Er....
Neil: Make her pet a dog, that Ellie kills. If they don't like her, it means they are bastards.
After focus testing : Nope! It's not doing it either.
Neil: Fuck, I'm a genius, why does this keep happening? --- I know make all of Ellie's friends boring!
Focus testers: Sorry Neil. No one likes Abby, even now.
Neil: Brilliant idea. Put a sex scene in there!!
Focus testers: Neil. ... testers are being sick, and laughing.
Neil: Shit!!! The game comes out in less than six months, what are we going to do? We don't have an ending?
Focus testers: I did tell you.
Neil: I know! We leave Abby's fate to the players imagination. Nothing I can come up with will be worse than that.
Focus testers: Are you sure?
Neil: Yes! When you get there. You won't know what's happened to Abby. But you'll know she's been
tortured and now she's crucified too!
Also the kid.
Focus testers: What does that even mean?
Neil: I dunno but I'm a genius. It's like the dog x1000. If you can't empathise with her now, it means you hate women and kids and the holocaust and Jesus and stuff. All of it.
Focus testers: I'm really not sure....
Neil: Racist.
Focus testers: What?
Neil: You're fired.
 

Dick Jones

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Did you seriously see Joel as a monster while you were playing him in TLOU1? He had flaws and there was some backstory we heard about but we never saw any of it. I don't remember there was backlash against him for the last 7 years.
Joel in the TLOU universe is a monster to some. It's mentioned in the first game in Jackson that Tommy was unhappy with Joel's methods of 'surviving' and this caused their rift. After Joel and Ellie are ambushed in Pittsburgh, Joel claims he knew it was an ambush as he was on both sides.

He tortured people in the first game. It didn't look like his first time doing so. The second game reinforces this as Tommy uses the same tactic in the hotel of double checking information. Ellie knew the tactic as she mentioned it to Dina that Joel told her it and she later tried to do it on Owen and Mel.

People who played TLOU don't hate Joel as we didn't carry out the evil acts he carried out, the torture scene and Marlene's death are cutscenes, and his acts prior to the game are referenced. Because we (the player) watched the relationship between Joel and Ellie grow, we accept shooting a doctor (some also shot the nurses) to save Ellie's life.
Now suddenly people are turning against him because of what he did to Abby!! What a monster!! She had the right to kill him! but Abby never existed until now and we should feel sympathy for her?
People are not hating Joel but are explaining that although Joel is the protagonist in the first game, he is the villain to the Fireflies in Salt Lake City. The game makes Abby the villain at the start but the further into the game you realise that Abby was motivated to kill only Joel. If it was the other way, Joel would have killed everyone. The game is not asking you to accept Joel is the villain, but that Joel's actions made him the villain to some.

By playing Abby's portions of the game you realise her character and motivations. You can accept her motivation without hating Joel. She has nightmares of what she's done and by saving Lev she finally finds peace. This is almost beat for beat with Joel's redemption in the first game.
For Ellie and Lev, the missions could have stayed the same but instead of getting medical supplies for Yara, it would be for Dina or a dying/tortured Joel. They had a blank slate so they had many alternatives but they focused all their attention on Abby, making her the star of the show. A hero. Instead of the antagonist.
When I bought the game I expected a different storyline too. I was spared the leaks but my expectation based on what i had seen & heard was Joel and Ellie were in Jackson. A religious group targeted the town and in the attack Dina is killed (the trailer with the bracelet) and Ellie was attacked (likely raped as we saw bruises on her back in one of the trailers). This would kick start the revenge plot against the Scars with Ellie supported by Joel.

Now when Joel died in TLOU2 I expected it to be Ellie supported by Tommy. In both cases it wasn't what i expected but as I didn't write the game and didn't get my version it doesn't necessarily mean other versions are automatically trash as it didn't match my expectations.

Abby is an antagonist for half the game, her character is later morally grey. Just like real life no person is exactly black and white. Manny is a prick until the time you play as Abby. Then he is extremely charming and funny. Although Mel travelled with the group to Jackson, she likely did it to keep Owen away from Abby who was likely morally obligated to support Abby (Mel is the jealous girlfriend type) and hated watching the torture (I think both Mel and Owen were in a different room for Joel's torture and came out when they heard Ellie's interruption). Mel calls out Abby later in the game for the type of person she is. Abby knowingly has sex with Owen while his partner is expecting. She is not a hero or portrayed as whiter than white.

Well, the audience has spoken and they failed. The vast majority still hates her. No redemption for that monster truck.
The audience has spoken? The loudest negative complaints were between the leaks and the game's release. The game takes about 30 hours to complete yet on the release date the negative scores came in. How do people fit 30 hours into less than 24 hours and write up a review? I'm not saying people who hate the game are disingenuous, people have different tastes and views, but I don't think those who hate the game is as high as you think.

No redemption for Abby? That's your opinion but you have to commend Naughty Dog for trying something different, it didn't work for you but at least it's not a paint by numbers game they aimed for.

Regarding Abby's build, it worked to show how much she deteriorated while in Santa Barbara. Would you be more accepting of Abby if she looked like current Lara Croft?
 

Kadayi

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Just got wrapped up watching a Let Play (PC was out of commission for a few days which allowed me to watch both both TLOU, The DLC and TLOU2). Enjoyed the whole experience enough to plough through it all (no regrets), but I have to say that turning Ellie into a wholesale murder machine from the off in TLOU2 seemed like a huge mistake and one that generated a lot of ludo-narrative dissonance. Having the two stories of Ellie and Abby was fine, but they needed to be more evenly split (day 1 Ellie, day 1 Abby) and they needed to show not tell the whole breakdown of the truce between the Scars and the WLF, as well as bake in Abby being this relentless Scar killer who eventually softens (have her be in the convoy that gets attacked by the Scars., when the truce gets broken) The abject lack of any sneak approach or non lethal take-downs especially when she's trying to rescue Lev from the Island seemed like a massive oversight. Game-play, visuals and sound were all fantastic, but I'd have done a lot more passes on the story side of things and put some thought into whether merely refreshing the game-play of the first game, sat well with the narrative intentions of the sequel.
 
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Gods&Monsters

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man there really are a lot of people here who think they're amazing writers like you literally just claimed your version of what should have happened would have been more praised than what we got. Are you a professional writer if not why aren't you? Clearly you can easily write stories but not only will be full of praise but no backlash.
Okaay...? What was the point of this reply? Anyway, I sold the game yesterday and I quickly deleted it from my hard drive. I enjoyed playing it but I'm done. No one is going to convince me the sequel of TLOU2 was the right time to write new, awful characters and make it all about them. Now it's all about Abby and Lev. Joel and Ellie were just in the way of the real protagonists Neil wanted.
 

Gods&Monsters

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Joel in the TLOU universe is a monster to some. It's mentioned in the first game in Jackson that Tommy was unhappy with Joel's methods of 'surviving' and this caused their rift. After Joel and Ellie are ambushed in Pittsburgh, Joel claims he knew it was an ambush as he was on both sides.

He tortured people in the first game. It didn't look like his first time doing so. The second game reinforces this as Tommy uses the same tactic in the hotel of double checking information. Ellie knew the tactic as she mentioned it to Dina that Joel told her it and she later tried to do it on Owen and Mel.

People who played TLOU don't hate Joel as we didn't carry out the evil acts he carried out, the torture scene and Marlene's death are cutscenes, and his acts prior to the game are referenced. Because we (the player) watched the relationship between Joel and Ellie grow, we accept shooting a doctor (some also shot the nurses) to save Ellie's life.
People are not hating Joel but are explaining that although Joel is the protagonist in the first game, he is the villain to the Fireflies in Salt Lake City. The game makes Abby the villain at the start but the further into the game you realise that Abby was motivated to kill only Joel. If it was the other way, Joel would have killed everyone. The game is not asking you to accept Joel is the villain, but that Joel's actions made him the villain to some.

By playing Abby's portions of the game you realise her character and motivations. You can accept her motivation without hating Joel. She has nightmares of what she's done and by saving Lev she finally finds peace. This is almost beat for beat with Joel's redemption in the first game.
When I bought the game I expected a different storyline too. I was spared the leaks but my expectation based on what i had seen & heard was Joel and Ellie were in Jackson. A religious group targeted the town and in the attack Dina is killed (the trailer with the bracelet) and Ellie was attacked (likely raped as we saw bruises on her back in one of the trailers). This would kick start the revenge plot against the Scars with Ellie supported by Joel.

Now when Joel died in TLOU2 I expected it to be Ellie supported by Tommy. In both cases it wasn't what i expected but as I didn't write the game and didn't get my version it doesn't necessarily mean other versions are automatically trash as it didn't match my expectations.

Abby is an antagonist for half the game, her character is later morally grey. Just like real life no person is exactly black and white. Manny is a prick until the time you play as Abby. Then he is extremely charming and funny. Although Mel travelled with the group to Jackson, she likely did it to keep Owen away from Abby who was likely morally obligated to support Abby (Mel is the jealous girlfriend type) and hated watching the torture (I think both Mel and Owen were in a different room for Joel's torture and came out when they heard Ellie's interruption). Mel calls out Abby later in the game for the type of person she is. Abby knowingly has sex with Owen while his partner is expecting. She is not a hero or portrayed as whiter than white.

The audience has spoken? The loudest negative complaints were between the leaks and the game's release. The game takes about 30 hours to complete yet on the release date the negative scores came in. How do people fit 30 hours into less than 24 hours and write up a review? I'm not saying people who hate the game are disingenuous, people have different tastes and views, but I don't think those who hate the game is as high as you think.

No redemption for Abby? That's your opinion but you have to commend Naughty Dog for trying something different, it didn't work for you but at least it's not a paint by numbers game they aimed for.

Regarding Abby's build, it worked to show how much she deteriorated while in Santa Barbara. Would you be more accepting of Abby if she looked like current Lara Croft?
That's a great post and I understood all your points, I came to the same conclusions while playing the game, really. I get what they wanted to do but I just didn't like it. I don't want to play as Abby and Lev.

About the last part, it has nothing to do with her butch looks. I don't even think she's a bad character in general. Just not in TLOU2. I really didn't care about Owen, Mel, Abby, Lev, Manny and all that WLF shit. That was all pointless shit to me even if the gameplay around them was very good, some of the best moments even.

Now we're stuck with them because they are hinting at more coming for Abby and Lev. What a waste.
 
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Dick Jones

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That's a great post and I understood all your points, I came to the same conclusions while playing the game, really. I get what they wanted to do but I just didn't like it. I don't want to play as Abby and Lev.

About the last part, it has nothing to do with her butch looks. I don't even think she's a bad character in general. Just not in TLOU2. I really didn't care about Owen, Mel, Abby, Lev, Manny and all that WLF shit. That was all pointless shit to me even if the gameplay around them was very good, some of the best moments even.

Now we're stuck with them because they are hinting at more coming for Abby and Lev. What a waste.
I'm disappointed too that I only played as Joel for a short time and it's tough how Ellie's arc ended so low. My taking from it is that she has learned to break the cycle of violence and keep some humanity to her (I know she killed half a city, but not the point) and unfortunately she learned it too late.

I think Abby and Lev are finished story wise. They reached the Fireflies and that's the end of their story arc. They got their happy ending. Did Druckmann give an interview hinting it? If there is a third game, I'd have loved a game that is set in the 20 years after Outbreak Day where Joel and Tommy are surviving together that culminates in their break up and Tommy joining the Fireflies.

I agree with you on Abby's core group of friends, I actually only liked Manny AKA Mexican Druckmann from Abby's group and I loved the encounter with the Scars. Jessie was done dirty, I liked Lev but Fat Geralt was MVP.
 
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If by a small chance Abby is back in the third you think she will have the same body at the end or will she bulk up once she meets up with the fireflies?
 

gow3isben

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My favorite character in this game was Tommy. What a G, loyal till the end. The real man on the mission. Happy he survived but damn they didn't have to cripple him. He put the fear of God in Abby. That sniper segment was GOAT part of the game. We were close to greatness twice if it wasn't for the Asian siblings and their bailouts.
 
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Inspector Q

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Man....not even sure how to process this game. I would say that the game is the best or among the best in several technical areas. Some of the best graphics, sound design, voice acting, etc etc. Hell, even the stealth and combat is really well done. Enemy designs look great and the AI is pretty good with all the flanking maneuvers and the way they communicate with one another, etc.

However, the story was a big letdown for me. I guess ultimately, I would use the word "unsatisfying" to describe it. Other than that great museum flashback with Joel and Ellie, I don't think I really enjoyed any other scene in the game.

Besides seeing Abby beat Joel's brains in with a golf club, they then show us her father who seemingly has a hard on for wanting to kill a 14 year old girl in her sleep to get his precious cure. So because of those two things, I basically never took a liking to her or her crew.

None of the relationships really resonated with me, either. What does Dina see in Ellie, at this point? What does Owen see in Abby? I just never bought into either of those pairings. Even the Abby/Lev pairing didn't do shit for me.

I don't know, there was just no real payoff in the end. They basically character assassinated Tommy in his last scene. That seemed bizarre as hell, lol. And Ellie is left a broken, lonely mess. Maybe she was right, she should have just died in that hospital in the first place. Would have been better off, lol.

Anyway, the game wasn't trash or anything, but the story was just wholly unsatisfying to me. Oh well, here's hoping we can get that TLoU Multiplayer game utilizing the new mechanics of TLoU2. That I can at least look forward to without worrying about some disappointing storyline/characters bringing my enjoyment down.
 

NYR

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Lol reading the comments here I think my opinion will be unpopular.

When we switched to Abby I hated it and didn’t want to play as her but then the deeper I got the more I enjoyed playing as Abby and understanding and seeing it from her point of view, switch Ellie and Abby around they would both go and do exactly what they needed to do for revenge.

the final battle I didn’t wanna see either die, Abby gained closure from helping Lev and Yara, even after killing Joel she was having nightmares but saving Lev and Yara her nightmares stopped and you see her dad In her dream in that room smiling and happy. Her cutting Lev down From the pillar and carrying him/her To the boat was exactly like watching Joel escape with Ellie from the hospital. ND are clever and have deeply thought about how This plays out.

I do feel like Ellie believed only revenge was the way, you could tell she also felt guilty for how she treated Joel in the years/months upto his death and Not forgiving him, that made it even more hard on herself.

I do think the last of us is about Joel as the story started with him, and him not being there just didn’t feel right, but then again I feel as if they couldn’t and wouldn’t be able to do a part 2 if one of the 2 didn’t die. It had to be one of them or there’s no motivation for a part 2.
I agree with this 100%, great post. I felt the exact same way in my play through - hated Abby, couldn't wait to get back to Ellie and then began to realize Abby is the protagonist in her own story and that in her world, Joel is the villain.

The fact Ellie remembers her last moments with Joel is a sign to me that she got closure, the message in the message about trying to forgive is so important to the story.
 
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NYR

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I’m still failing to understand the relevance of the two love triangles in the game. Why was pregnancy such a predominant theme? What was the point of Dina coming out and saying she was pregnant? What was the point of Mel being angry at Abby over Owen? Why should anyone care about the relational dynamics and soap opera teen drama bullshit?

It all felt incredibly contrived, out of place, tacked-on, and ultimately irrelevant to the main narrative arc. Does Druckmann have a teenage daughter who helped co-write it? The whole thing was cringe and felt like it was targeted towards a young female demographic. It almost feels like they want to make a romance and relationship drama.
The entire story is an vengeful act begets an vengeful act and revenge is a never ending cycle. Abby and Ellie mirror each other, it would have only been "fair" if Abby killed Dina after what Ellie did to Mell but she ended her cycle in that moment. She had her closure. Ellie couldn't let the cycle go, hence Santa Barbara, and her losing everything as a result.
 

slade

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Guy at the end said Abby had been bit. Ellie let her go but she was going to die anyway.
 
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Dargor

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Guy at the end said Abby had been bit. Ellie let her go but she was going to die anyway.
Huh, aren't you remembering that wrong or maybe, am I taking crazy pills? Well, as far as I am aware, it was ellie who had been bit. The prisoners even wanted to shoot her, but since they were leaving and she had just saved them, the "leader" told them to stop and told where abby was and they went on their way.
 

gow3isben

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So many people talked about awesome setpieces in the game, but now that I've finished it...there weren't any good ones. Just some on rails shooting segments that even if you missed every shot you would somehow still progress, and some generic running segments. There were some interesting combat encounters with different elements to spice things up. The design of encounters were top notch. But actual setpieces were rubbish and a fraction of what Uncharted brings. They weren't even "grounded", they were nonexistent.
 
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slade

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Huh, aren't you remembering that wrong or maybe, am I taking crazy pills? Well, as far as I am aware, it was ellie who had been bit. The prisoners even wanted to shoot her, but since they were leaving and she had just saved them, the "leader" told them to stop and told where abby was and they went on their way.
Yeah, I did misread that scene. Just saw it on YouTube and the prisoner was talking about Ellie being bit.
 
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ZZZZ

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I like Game sins, he's consistent. He's going to shit on any game that comes out, even your loved ones. :messenger_beaming:

His TLOU2 "review" is finally out.

 
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gow3isben

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I'm kind of salty we never saw Ricky or Max in the Scars. It would be cool if the game actually resolved that environmental plotline.
 

DForce

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I like Game sins, he's consistent. He's going to shit on any game that comes out, even your loved ones. :messenger_beaming:

His TLOU2 "review" is finally out.

I remember he created one for RDR2.

13K likes
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Keihart

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I like Game sins, he's consistent. He's going to shit on any game that comes out, even your loved ones. :messenger_beaming:

His TLOU2 "review" is finally out.

Haven't watched this channel in years since it became the gimmick of it and...damn, it's worst than before now.
No new gameplay mechanics besides jump...
 
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TissueBox

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Game shower thoughts:

What if -- if -- Ellie's and Abby's storylines were divided into two different play routes a la Leon and Claire in RE2?

For Ellie's story, you play as her from just before the start of the game all the way to the end -- every story beat and flashback pertains to her perspective and hers only.

For Abby's story, you play as her, also beginning at just before the start of the game, or at a 'flashback' scene to build her storyline's cast and lore, up until to the end, where she eventually comes across the Firefly remnants.

Abby's could only be unlocked after you finish Ellie's story -- but it would be 'optional' in name, and completely out of the blue.

Impractical. But that would also be way more interesting. Imagine thinking you've finished the game, and upon returning to the main menu, suddenly, a new story mode appears!! ZOMG, gasp, exhalation, wowza..! *throws poke-ball*
 
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PanzerAzel

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However, the story was a big letdown for me. I guess ultimately, I would use the word "unsatisfying" to describe it. Other than that great museum flashback with Joel and Ellie, I don't think I really enjoyed any other scene in the game.
That was a great scene, I was crying when Ellie was imagining lift-off. It felt like TLoU to me again, as it was laser focused on characterization. Sad it didn’t last.
 
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A.Romero

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Just finished. I felt it dragged a bit.

By the end I learned to like Abby and dislike Ellie.

Pacing was all over the place. Stopping the climax just made me want to finish Abby's story faster so I could see what happens.

Santa Barbara felt really tacked on. Why on earth would Ellie go across the country again after she almost died. I wish something happened at the theater so the fight stopped so Ellie actually had a motivation to look for Abby again.

My fav character is Tommy, followed by Joel.

Game play was pretty good, specially shooting. I kept thinking MGS 6 could have looked like this in a Jungle environment.

All in all I liked the game. I'm a sucker for well acted AAA productions. I think I'd still played a third one but I'd rather have it be at the outbreak (the basement in the hospital was amazing) or long time after this game.

Don't care about the message. Felt contrived but didn't really take away from the experience.

BTW, I think finding the cure wouldn't have made a lot of difference. It's pretty clear that the infected are a manageable risk while humans still fuck everything up. Fireflies would have probably gone crazy corrupted if they have gotten their hands on a cure.
 

sol_bad

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Just finished this game, took me 35 hours on hard. Honestly one of my best games of forever.

Should be fun reading through this shit storm of a thread. I probably won't make it all the way through.
 

Ozrimandias

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Avoid any kind of spoiler, played the last of us without any kind of spoiler. I finished it yesterday and it's probably GOTG before Bloodborne.
In Gaf years ago someone laughed at how Naughty Dog made Nathan Drake a "hero" when he was a serial killer. Well, they took message from that comment and offered a story where nobody is a hero and they are all miserable people in search of redemption. Redemption that Joel finds when he believes that he lives in happiness with Ellie. Nobody is truly good or evil in the Last of Us, everbody can turn into demons, just like Joel was a shitty person in the first one.... the only character that evolves in someway, is Joel, but with a sacrifice.
 
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Steve.1981

Unconfirmed Member
Finished my 2nd playthrough. Had to do it, the game had worked it's way into my mind & I couldn't let it go. Had to go through the whole thing again & see where that left me.

I'm content now. It's no masterpiece. It's a mixed bag actually. There's some stuff that is right up there with the very best you'll find in gaming, but then there's some really clunky dialogue or overly contrived scenario that has the eyes rolling.

I feel like Naughty Dog simply bit off more than they could chew with this game. They had a lot of great ideas, nailed some of them & badly missed the mark on others. Hell, I applaud them for trying though.

Young Yea now gives his opinion. Honestly, surprised by his reaction.

Now that was a good review. He explained how he felt clearly & accurately. He gave the game it's due praise for the things it objectively does well. He pointed out the things it at least tried to do, even if he felt they ultimately came up short. He let the whole thing play out & thought about it before jumping to any conclusions.

Well done that man.
 

Halo is Dead

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Finished my 2nd playthrough. Had to do it, the game had worked it's way into my mind & I couldn't let it go. Had to go through the whole thing again & see where that left me.

I'm content now. It's no masterpiece. It's a mixed bag actually. There's some stuff that is right up there with the very best you'll find in gaming, but then there's some really clunky dialogue or overly contrived scenario that has the eyes rolling.

I feel like Naughty Dog simply bit off more than they could chew with this game. They had a lot of great ideas, nailed some of them & badly missed the mark on others. Hell, I applaud them for trying though.



Now that was a good review. He explained how he felt clearly & accurately. He gave the game it's due praise for the things it objectively does well. He pointed out the things it at least tried to do, even if he felt they ultimately came up short. He let the whole thing play out & thought about it before jumping to any conclusions.

Well done that man.
Yea, it was the best review on the game I could find. I feel the exact same way he did. I don't think the story is inherently bad. I have seen good movies try the same thing (or close to it anyway) but the execution, the pacing, Abby's campaign being waayy to long and a unnecessary third ending brings it down for me.
 
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SLoWMoTIoN

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Just finished this game, took me 35 hours on hard. Honestly one of my best games of forever.

Should be fun reading through this shit storm of a thread. I probably won't make it all the way through.
Mature.
 

EDMIX

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I know. I made it to page 50 and couldn't take it anymore.
:)
Agreed. I think its funny looking at all the leaks and how much of it was fake, yet folks were out here making a choice to not buy a game cause leaker said so lol

I'm still looking thru it and man, people fall for anything and seem to not be able to think for themselves. Many of the leaks were not only fake, taken deeply out of context to the point where people are lead to believe its about something, that its actually not about.
 
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Halo is Dead

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Agreed. I think its funny looking at all the leaks and how much of it was fake, yet folks were out here making a choice to not buy a game cause leaker said so lol

I'm still looking thru it and man, people fall for anything and seem to not be able to think for themselves. Many of the leaks were not only fake, taken deeply out of context to the point where people are lead to believe its about something, that its actually not about.
what was fake? Pretty much all the big key moments are ture in the leaks
 
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EDMIX

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Dude......so you are going to tell me this group in a post apocalyptic game where survival is everything let's the brother live and the girl THEY KNEW was attached to Joel live? Nah, your common sense has flown out the damn window.
Funny enough, DForce is correct.

Its explained why they do that in many parts of the game even before you get to Abby's part. WLF is at war with The Scars. Issac their leaders has NO issue killing even WLF members for disobeying orders and hates traders.

Owen in the very first part of the game talks about the size of Jackson, he also states he has a kid on the way. None of this makes sense in the very beginning because ITS NOT SUPPOSE TO, that is something later solved thru context of the game.

So Owen's character only wants an eye for an eye for several reasons. He doesn't want the ENTIRE FUCKING TOWN OF JACKSON looking for revenge for them killing a bunch of people, making it 1 person cause doubt and allows the town to weight in if such a personal conflict is WORTH the whole town going to war. (This is actually questioned many times in letters based on FEDRA fighting WLF, fighting SCARS etc)

WLF is already fighting Scars and its making them use up a lot of resources, they don't need ANOTHER WAR sucking up resources and Owen now having a child doesn't want to be on Issac's hit list for doing something like getting them involved with a war with another town. Ultimately, Owens caring about some lone scar he didn't want to see die for no reason, cause Issac to even start hunting him down, to the point where Owen is actually getting the boat ready to FLEE......

So reading the many notes about FEDRA, WLF and Scars and even other groups and groups without labels so to speak, this idea of holding off on revenge or not getting many people involved based on thinking of the COLLECTIVE FIRST, happens often in the game, to the point where you understand WHY Owen says this when you get to many parts of the game were they see how Issac behaves, when they see how WLF is losing in its fight with the Scars and when you read that such a choice was made by FEDRA and WLF members many times in hopes of not causing a war with some rival group that they couldn't afford.

Halo is Dead Halo is Dead Nah, just stop...sooooo much of those leaks were fake and pure false flag fanfiction its not even funny.

Just a few...

"- Homophobic Christians are the main enemy" Scars are not a "Christian" group and are not even the "main enemy", the theme of the game is so complex, that the "main enemy" can be seen as many, many different sides tbh. At some point, folks from JACKSON are the "main enemy". So Scars is never the main 100% focus and they are not a "christian" group.

"- So Ellie (lesbo) and anyone else who isn't straight are public enemies #1 " No where in the game does any character base some sort of revenge or see someone as a "enemies" purely based on being straight even remotely...

"- Dina who is bi, gets killed and Ellie goes for revenge" Funny too, she doesn't get killed.

Mystery women is Ellie's mom LMFAO!

She has a baby with a man that is immune

Ellie ends up with a Scar girl friend

So many funny leaks like this make me laugh that anyone was DUMB enough to base buying a game, based on someone else making something up. Imagine people like that existing, smh. Sounds sad to me.

Loved The Last Of Us 2, easily my favorite game of all time. btw, looking at the comments, I've seen enough of your post to know to add you to the ignore list going forward, I did however think your post deserved a response and examples.
 
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Halo is Dead

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Funny enough, DForce is correct.

Its explained why they do that in many parts of the game even before you get to Abby's part. WLF is at war with The Scars. Issac their leaders has NO issue killing even WLF members for disobeying orders and hates traders.

Owen in the very first part of the game talks about the size of Jackson, he also states he has a kid on the way. None of this makes sense in the very beginning because ITS NOT SUPPOSE TO, that is something later solved thru context of the game.

So Owen's character only wants an eye for an eye for several reasons. He doesn't want the ENTIRE FUCKING TOWN OF JACKSON looking for revenge for them killing a bunch of people, making it 1 person cause doubt and allows the town to weight in if such a personal conflict is WORTH the whole town going to war. (This is actually questioned many times in letters based on FEDRA fighting WLF, fighting SCARS etc)

WLF is already fighting Scars and its making them use up a lot of resources, they don't need ANOTHER WAR sucking up resources and Owen now having a child doesn't want to be on Issac's hit list for doing something like getting them involved with a war with another town. Ultimately, Owens caring about some lone scar he didn't want to see die for no reason, cause Issac to even start hunting him down, to the point where Owen is actually getting the boat ready to FLEE......

So reading the many notes about FEDRA, WLF and Scars and even other groups and groups without labels so to speak, this idea of holding off on revenge or not getting many people involved based on thinking of the COLLECTIVE FIRST, happens often in the game, to the point where you understand WHY Owen says this when you get to many parts of the game were they see how Issac behaves, when they see how WLF is losing in its fight with the Scars and when you read that such a choice was made by FEDRA and WLF members many times in hopes of not causing a war with some rival group that they couldn't afford.
Are you dense? Tommy said he was from Jackson. How dose that make any sense to let him live TO GO BACK TO JACKSON along with ANOTHER WITNESS who clearly cared about Joel? Dude that is exactly why in every crime movie ever AND in real life the leave no witnesses.
 
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Halo is Dead

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Funny enough, DForce is correct.

Its explained why they do that in many parts of the game even before you get to Abby's part. WLF is at war with The Scars. Issac their leaders has NO issue killing even WLF members for disobeying orders and hates traders.

Owen in the very first part of the game talks about the size of Jackson, he also states he has a kid on the way. None of this makes sense in the very beginning because ITS NOT SUPPOSE TO, that is something later solved thru context of the game.

So Owen's character only wants an eye for an eye for several reasons. He doesn't want the ENTIRE FUCKING TOWN OF JACKSON looking for revenge for them killing a bunch of people, making it 1 person cause doubt and allows the town to weight in if such a personal conflict is WORTH the whole town going to war. (This is actually questioned many times in letters based on FEDRA fighting WLF, fighting SCARS etc)

WLF is already fighting Scars and its making them use up a lot of resources, they don't need ANOTHER WAR sucking up resources and Owen now having a child doesn't want to be on Issac's hit list for doing something like getting them involved with a war with another town. Ultimately, Owens caring about some lone scar he didn't want to see die for no reason, cause Issac to even start hunting him down, to the point where Owen is actually getting the boat ready to FLEE......

So reading the many notes about FEDRA, WLF and Scars and even other groups and groups without labels so to speak, this idea of holding off on revenge or not getting many people involved based on thinking of the COLLECTIVE FIRST, happens often in the game, to the point where you understand WHY Owen says this when you get to many parts of the game were they see how Issac behaves, when they see how WLF is losing in its fight with the Scars and when you read that such a choice was made by FEDRA and WLF members many times in hopes of not causing a war with some rival group that they couldn't afford.

Halo is Dead Halo is Dead Nah, just stop...sooooo much of those leaks were fake and pure false flag fanfiction its not even funny.

Just a few...

"- Homophobic Christians are the main enemy" Scars are not a "Christian" group and are not even the "main enemy", the theme of the game is so complex, that the "main enemy" can be seen as many, many different sides tbh. At some point, folks from JACKSON are the "main enemy". So Scars is never the main 100% focus and they are not a "christian" group.

"- So Ellie (lesbo) and anyone else who isn't straight are public enemies #1 " No where in the game does any character base some sort of revenge or see someone as a "enemies" purely based on being straight even remotely...

"- Dina who is bi, gets killed and Ellie goes for revenge" Funny too, she doesn't get killed.

Mystery women is Ellie's mom LMFAO!

She has a baby with a man that is immune

Ellie ends up with a Scar girl friend

So many funny leaks like this make me laugh that anyone was DUMB enough to base buying a game, based on someone else making something up. Imagine people like that existing, smh. Sounds sad to me.

Loved The Last Of Us 2, easily my favorite game of all time. btw, looking at the comments, I've seen enough of your post to know to add you to the ignore list going forward, I did however think your post deserved a response and examples.
Most of what you said was speculation and didn't take it seriously

Major story beats that were true: :messenger_blowing_kiss:


1. Joel gets killed by Abby and Ellie watches it.

2. Ellie Leaves the farm with Dina and the baby to get revenge on Joel a second time

3. Abby Kills Joel because she was the daughter of the surgeon killed at the end of the first game

4. You play as Abby roughly half of the game

5. Abby beats the shit out of Ellie and Dian. Dina is pregnant with Jessie's kid

6. Abby is part of a large armed organization with a built in gym
 
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