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News Spoilers All The Last of Us 2 leaks/spoilers in here and nowhere else.

Eiknarf

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Being this game has flashbacks and flashbacks within flashbacks...etc has anyone put up a graph, graphic or short video arranging all the events in sequence?

I remember, after Pulp Fiction came out, before the Internet, some magazine published a graphic putting the scenes in proper time order - was cool. I’d love that for The Last of Us 2
 

NYR

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Being this game has flashbacks and flashbacks within flashbacks...etc has anyone put up a graph, graphic or short video arranging all the events in sequence?

I remember, after Pulp Fiction came out, before the Internet, some magazine published a graphic putting the scenes in proper time order - was cool. I’d love that for The Last of Us 2
Here you go. Won't go into the Seattle details for Ellie and Abby, that is straight forward.

28 April 2034
  • Dr. Jerry Anderson runs some tests on the unconscious Ellie and determines that she will die if they perform the operation necessary to create a cure. Though conflicted, he convinces Marlene of the necessity of the procedure. After Marlene agrees and goes to tell Joel, Dr. Anderson is comforted by his daughter; Abby, who tells him she'd want him to operate if it was her instead of Ellie.
  • In the operating room Dr. Anderson threatens Joel with a scalpel and tries to reason with hi
  • Later the same day, Abby discovers her father has been murdered by Joel and is devastated.
Mid 2034
  • Joel and Ellie begin to settle into Tommy's community. Having promised to teach her to play the guitar, Joel obtains one while out with Tommy. Joel confesses what happened at the Firefly Hospital to Tommy, who is shaken by the revelation but agrees to take his secret to the grave if he must. They return to Jackson and Joel sings Ellie a song.
2035
  • Ellie and Joel spend Ellie's birthday at a museum looking at dinosaurs and hanging out in a space capsule.
  • Abby and Owen, now members of the Washington Liberation Front, explore the Seattle Aquarium. She expresses her disappointment in all of her leads to Joel being dried up.
2036
  • Ellie has suspicions that Joel isn't telling the truth about the Fireflies, but Joel won't admit it.
  • Ellie returns to Salt Lake City and works out what happened. Joel catches up to her and she confronts him directly. He admits what he did, Ellie tells him "we're done", and no longer speaks to him.
2038
December 2038
  • Abby reveals to Owen that she has tracked down Tommy through ex-Fireflies who served with him. They plan on leaving a week later, along with the rest of their WLF crew.
1 March 2038
  • Ellie kisses Dina at Seth's bar, leading to an altercation between Joel and the former
  • Ellie drops by Joel's house and admits that she wants to try and forgive him. They agree and begin to repair their relationship
  • Abby and crew arrive in Jackson.
  • Abby Kills Joel.
Early March 2038
  • Ellie and Dina go after Tommy to Seattle to look for the Washington Liberation Front.
Late March 2038
  • Seattle Day 1
  • Seattle Day 2
  • Seattle Day 3

Late 2038 or Early 2039
  • JJ is born.
  • Lev and Abby reach Santa Barbara.
  • Ellie goes after Abbie.
  • Lev and Abby are captured by the Rattlers.
  • Ellie reaches Santa Barbara.
  • Ellie rescues Abby and Lev, fights Abby.
  • Abby and Lev escape and make it to Catalina Island.
  • Ellie returns home.
  • Ellie leaves.
 
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Jon Neu

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No he isn't. There's literally dialogue in the game saying the scars slipped through the WLF's lines after you reach the base. So no, they really didn't expect to be ambushed there.

You can either accept this, or stubbornly go "lalalalalala can't hear you it's still dumb".

You know they weren’t ambushed at the base, do you?

They are in the open. If you don’t account for the possibility of being ambushed in the open in a world with millions of zombies roaming free, then seems to me you are the one stubbornly going “lalalalalala can’t hear you”.

And that’s not even taking into account that they were at war with Scars, so it’s nothing out of the ordinary neither thinking about the possibility of them being out there too.

Sorry, but there is no other way around, it’s retarded to put your best doctor who is pregnant in the open escorted by just two soldiers.

pragmatic "what it takes to survive" perspective.

The characters, are not, they're letting emotion dictate their decisions in these moments. This isn't bad writing just because it's not pragmatically "smart

What emotions? They are soldiers and Ellie is just an enemy who has seen their faces and it’s screaming she is gonna kill them, emotions aren’t at play here at all. Friendly reminder that they are ok to be part of a military group that kills children and tortures people to death. Even Abby says that she loves to torture scars.

It’s just dumb they let Ellie live once, and it’s super dumb to let her live twice once she has killed your love & childhood friend and your other friends and it’s actively trying to murder you.

And it’s funny you talk about emotions when Abby has almost like zero emotion to all her friends being murdered.
 
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Dick Jones

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Legit Question.....

Haven't played the game, but plan to. I've heard conflicting accounts regarding Abby's....'appearance'.

Is she actually transgender or a muscular female? If transgender, do they address it in the game?
Abby is a girl who after witnessing her father die, devoted herself to bulking up so she could take revenge on Joel. Her room is right beside the WLF gym where she worked out to be built. Her mocap was done by a woman who is built like a brick shithouse. She nor her mocap actress or voice actress are trans.

There was a teenage girl called Lily in the Scars (a religious group) who was to have an arranged marriage with one of the elders. She wanted to be a warrior so she cut her hair and wanted to be recognised as a boy called Lev. Lev was not accepted by the Scars. The only weak part in the rationale is there are female warriors in the Scars. In one encounter the Scars deadname Lev (this is the issue trans people have, even though you kill all of them and the deadname part is acknowledged but not expanded upon). Lev is the best character in the game to be fair.

Abby is Joel 2.0 (Her story beats match Joel's in the first game)
She does unforgivable acts (the difference is you dont see Joel at his worst) and she takes Lev under her wing like Joel with Ellie in the first game. This protective action by both Joel and Abby is to try and redeem the humanity that seemed lost. I don't understand how people can hate Abby's rationale but Joel is given a free pass. They are almost the same character.
 
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Thaedolus

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Abby is a girl who after witnessing her father die, devoted herself to bulking up so she could take revenge on Joel. Her room is right beside the WLF gym where she worked out to be built. Her mocap was done by a woman who is built like a brick shithouse. She nor her mocap actress or voice actress are trans.

There was a teenage girl called Lily in the Scars (a religious group) who was to have an arranged marriage with one of the elders. She wanted to be a warrior so she cut her hair and wanted to be recognised as a boy called Lev. Lev was not accepted by the Scars. The only weak part in the rationale is there are female warriors in the Scars. In one encounter the Scars deadname Lev (this is the issue trans people have, even though you kill all of them and the deadname part is acknowledged but not expanded upon). Lev is the best character in the game to be fair.

Abby is Joel 2.0 (Her story beats match Joel's in the first game)
She does unforgivable acts (the difference is you dont see Joel at his worst) and she takes Lev under her wing like Joel with Ellie in the first game. This protective action by both Joel and Abby is to try and redeem the humanity that seemed lost. I don't understand how people can hate Abby's rationale but Joel is given a free pass. They are almost the same character.

This is like, exactly how I took everything. Except I didn’t pick up on the Lev being Lilly and dead named or whatever, I totally missed that part of the plot because I was murdering K9s and shit
 
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Sub_Level

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She does unforgivable acts (the difference is you dont see Joel at his worst)

I remember in Pittsburgh Joel even admits to Ellie he did that scavenger trick where someone in the middle of a road pretends to be injured then ambushes the slowing vehicle. Thats straight up jihadi shit lol
 
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Dick Jones

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This is like, exactly how I took everything. Except I didn’t pick up on the Lev being Lilly and dead named or whatever, I totally missed that part of the plot because I was murdering K9s and shit
Fucking hate those dogs, I'd take a golf club on the bastards.
The only person I forgot to mention is Fat Geralt who was too good for this world.
 

Gods&Monsters

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Abby is Joel 2.0 (Her story beats match Joel's in the first game)
She does unforgivable acts (the difference is you dont see Joel at his worst) and she takes Lev under her wing like Joel with Ellie in the first game. This protective action by both Joel and Abby is to try and redeem the humanity that seemed lost. I don't understand how people can hate Abby's rationale but Joel is given a free pass. They are almost the same character.

Because Joel is a father figure that is ready to protect his child at any cost. We all have dads or those kind of people in our lives so we can relate and understand his actions.

Abby didn't exist in TLOU1, they made her up for TLOU2 and turned her into some kind of martyr and gave her all the attention in the sequel. She was just the daughter of that random faceless doctor we never cared about. The scene where she "switches" and kills Joel after he helps her is just terrible. She was fine as an antagonist and Lev could have been Ellie's ally for something.

As you can see by the reception, everybody hates her and pointless Lev besides ERA who got their trash "representation". At what cost tho?
 
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Dick Jones

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Because Joel is a father figure that is ready to protect his child at any cost. We all have dads or those kind of people in our lives so we can relate and understand his actions.

Abby didn't exist in TLOU1, they made her up for TLOU2 and turned her into some kind of martyr and gave her all the attention in the sequel. She was just the daughter of that random faceless doctor we never cared about. The scene where she "switches" and kills Joel after he helps her is just terrible. She was fine as an antagonist and Lev could have been Ellie's ally for something.

As you can see by the reception, everybody hates her and pointless Lev besides ERA who got their trash "representation". At what cost tho?
So you're telling me that if you've devoted five years of your life to finding your father's killer after building him up as the bogeyman and just because of a joint effort for self preservation , you would be like "Thanks lad, I'm heading back to Seattle. Funny story i wanted to kill you. Soz babe! Bye."

Abby had 5 years of anger to work out. She was never going to change that in a few hours. Joel still murdered her father.

The reason people don't like Abby is that she killed Joel. That and the leaks that gave the impression Abby was trans.

You do see the link between Abby and Joel? Why have Ellie team up with Lev? She is on a revenge mission and doesn't care about anything but killing Abby. Lev wouldn't have redeemed Ellie as she is too stubborn. The point is that people's actions have consequences. Joel was a monster, he mentioned it in the first game, but you never saw it carried out.
 
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realcool

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Yeah, I forgot the rule where you can't hate murderers of family members if you don't witness the actual second the murder occurs.

Previously, you said Abby witnessed her father's death when she clearly did not. That's all.

But we've made progress here today.

 

Pantz

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Does Abby have/had a penis or not?

I'm getting confused by all these threads comparing Abby to women.
 

Gods&Monsters

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So you're telling me that if you've devoted five years of your life to finding your father's killer after building him up as the bogeyman and just because of a joint effort for self preservation , you would be like "Thanks lad, I'm heading back to Seattle. Funny story i wanted to kill you. Soz babe! Bye."

Abby had 5 years of anger to work out. She was never going to change that in a few hours. Joel still murdered her father.

The reason people don't like Abby is that she killed Joel. That and the leaks that gave the impression Abby was trans.

You do see the link between Abby and Joel? Why have Ellie team up with Lev? She is on a revenge mission and doesn't care about anything but killing Abby. Lev wouldn't have redeemed Ellie as she is too stubborn. The point is that people's actions have consequences. Joel was a monster, he mentioned it in the first game, but you never saw it carried out.

Did you seriously see Joel as a monster while you were playing him in TLOU1? He had flaws and there was some backstory we heard about but we never saw any of it. I don't remember there was backlash against him for the last 7 years.

Now suddenly people are turning against him because of what he did to Abby!! What a monster!! She had the right to kill him! but Abby never existed until now and we should feel sympathy for her?

For Ellie and Lev, the missions could have stayed the same but instead of getting medical supplies for Yara, it would be for Dina or a dying/tortured Joel. They had a blank slate so they had many alternatives but they focused all their attention on Abby, making her the star of the show. A hero. Instead of the antagonist.

Well, the audience has spoken and they failed. The vast majority still hates her. No redemption for that monster truck.
 

PanzerAzel

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I'm suspicious that the Sepharites were included, and based around religion, largely so as to allow for Lev's backstory that focused on her gender identity. There's really no better way to fit a story about gender and the traditional roles they play than to include religion as a backdrop considering the conflict it would create about such an issue, thus making it much easier to highlight. It would've been a lot more difficult to bring into focus a transgender's plight without it. What better way than religion?

Clever, Neil.

You're gonna have to be specific, are you talking about them leaving Ellie alive? Because out of all the characters in the group, it's clear Owen is the most righteous, he wants to feel morally right to help his conscious, part of his arc in the game. While others want to tie up lose ends.
No, I'm referring to the decision to take Mel out with only two others and a dog. That wasn't a decision based on emotion as far as I saw.
 

Strategize

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You know they weren’t ambushed at the base, do you?

They are in the open. If you don’t account for the possibility of being ambushed in the open in a world with millions of zombies roaming free, then seems to me you are the one stubbornly going “lalalalalala can’t hear you”.

And that’s not even taking into account that they were at war with Scars, so it’s nothing out of the ordinary neither thinking about the possibility of them being out there too.

Sorry, but there is no other way around, it’s retarded to put your best doctor who is pregnant in the open escorted by just two soldiers.



What emotions? They are soldiers and Ellie is just an enemy who has seen their faces and it’s screaming she is gonna kill them, emotions aren’t at play here at all. Friendly reminder that they are ok to be part of a military group that kills children and tortures people to death. Even Abby says that she loves to torture scars.

It’s just dumb they let Ellie live once, and it’s super dumb to let her live twice once she has killed your love & childhood friend and your other friends and it’s actively trying to murder you.

And it’s funny you talk about emotions when Abby has almost like zero emotion to all her friends being murdered.
Okay so just because they aren't in the base, doesn't necessarily mean they should think they'll be in danger, because if I'm interpreting "Slipping through the lines" line correctly, they way they're setup around the city, the zone they went through should've been cutoff by various other checkpoints even if they aren't directly in the area. These are normal military tactics on how to lockdown a larger area without putting men on every single street, lines and cutoffs "Well if we're at x, y or z, then surely they can't get to this area without going through x, y or z". Anyway, they were wrong and the SCARS found a route through those lines and checkpoints anyway, shoot shoot bang bang videogame action scene commences because there hasn't been any action in about 45 mins.

Secondly what the fuck do you mean "What emotions?" soldiers can have emotions, especially Owen who is the first one to leave the WLF, which is why it makes sense he's the one defending not killing them while Manny, Jordan and Mel are like "fuck that shit lets kill them can't have loose ends."

Yes, Abby has zero emotion to her friends dying totally what happens /s, which is why despite her revenge on Joel not fixing all the nightmares. She still loses her shit and goes for revenge again only to be pulled back by Lev once again, and before the revenge this time.

For some of these characters, the lack of some pragmatism in certain situations on regards to survival is worth it as long as the they don't feel like dogshit on the inside. Happens to Owen, Happens to Abby and by the end, it finally happens to Ellie.
No, I'm referring to the decision to take Mel out with only two others and a dog. That wasn't a decision based on emotion as far as I saw.
I explained that in my comment above.
 
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Jon Neu

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Anyway, they were wrong

No, they were stupid.

Again, you don’t send your best doctor in the open while pregnant with just two soldiers as a escort. Again, post apocalyptic world filled with millions of zombies that have made you barely retreat into a fucking stadium. And again, you are at war with a heavily armed sect that is actually winning against you.

You simply don’t take chances in that scenario. Even Abby tells Mel that she could stay if she asked it. It’s all just shitty writing, there’s literally no other way around.


Secondly what the fuck do you mean "What emotions?"

Means that murderous torturing soldiers shouldn’t have emotions to a total stranger that presents such a high risk on their lives and who is shouting that she is gonna kill them all.

Means that Abby shouldn’t have given mercy TWICE to the person that killed her love, her childhood friend and her other friends.

It’s just the ridiculous contrivance of the plot: Abby and Ellie can kill happily hundreds of bystanders, some of them innocent even, and nothing happens. That’s ok.

But they can’t kill each other, because that’s when the game tells you that then they can’t recover their humanity (as if Abby has one to begin with).

The other dozens and dozens of people are fine, but the actual person who has destroyed your life and have tried to murder you, that’s too much. How convenient.

It’s just a ridiculous level of plot armor for the sake of continuing the story. It’s lazy writting to the fullest, because you can actually write in a way that the themes make sense and the characters don’t seem retarded, but thet just went the easy and subverting of expectations route. Style over substance.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Is "I hope you can appreciate well-choreographed anal sex" technically a spoiler, or just a nice way of wishing a new player an enjoyable playthrough of the game? :pie_thinking:
 

ToadMan

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The circumstances of Ellie and Tommy surviving the introductory sequence are just comical to me. Abby´s gang is so obsessed with revenge that they travel across the country to kill Joel and host a torture party in a basement where they all sit around high-fiving each other and getting off to this guy getting beaten to death. Abby is even visibly upset at the order to finish the job because she just fucking loves torture so much and wants to keep going.

Then they decide to let the only 2 living witnesses walk away because... that would be somehow beneath them? Cmon bro.

Because in the perception of Abby and Owen, they are enacting justice... not revenge.

And other members of Abby's party are quite ready to kill the others.
 

Eiknarf

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Here you go. Won't go into the Seattle details for Ellie and Abby, that is straight forward.

28 April 2034
  • Dr. Jerry Anderson runs some tests on the unconscious Ellie and determines that she will die if they perform the operation necessary to create a cure. Though conflicted, he convinces Marlene of the necessity of the procedure. After Marlene agrees and goes to tell Joel, Dr. Anderson is comforted by his daughter; Abby, who tells him she'd want him to operate if it was her instead of Ellie.
  • In the operating room Dr. Anderson threatens Joel with a scalpel and tries to reason with hi
  • Later the same day, Abby discovers her father has been murdered by Joel and is devastated.
Mid 2034
  • Joel and Ellie begin to settle into Tommy's community. Having promised to teach her to play the guitar, Joel obtains one while out with Tommy. Joel confesses what happened at the Firefly Hospital to Tommy, who is shaken by the revelation but agrees to take his secret to the grave if he must. They return to Jackson and Joel sings Ellie a song.
2035
  • Ellie and Joel spend Ellie's birthday at a museum looking at dinosaurs and hanging out in a space capsule.
  • Abby and Owen, now members of the Washington Liberation Front, explore the Seattle Aquarium. She expresses her disappointment in all of her leads to Joel being dried up.
2036
  • Ellie has suspicions that Joel isn't telling the truth about the Fireflies, but Joel won't admit it.
  • Ellie returns to Salt Lake City and works out what happened. Joel catches up to her and she confronts him directly. He admits what he did, Ellie tells him "we're done", and no longer speaks to him.
2038
December 2038
  • Abby reveals to Owen that she has tracked down Tommy through ex-Fireflies who served with him. They plan on leaving a week later, along with the rest of their WLF crew.
1 March 2038
  • Ellie kisses Dina at Seth's bar, leading to an altercation between Joel and the former
  • Ellie drops by Joel's house and admits that she wants to try and forgive him. They agree and begin to repair their relationship
  • Abby and crew arrive in Jackson.
  • Abby Kills Joel.
Early March 2038
  • Ellie and Dina go after Tommy to Seattle to look for the Washington Liberation Front.
Late March 2038
  • Seattle Day 1
  • Seattle Day 2
  • Seattle Day 3

Late 2038 or Early 2039
  • JJ is born.
  • Lev and Abby reach Santa Barbara.
  • Ellie goes after Abbie.
  • Lev and Abby are captured by the Rattlers.
  • Ellie reaches Santa Barbara.
  • Ellie rescues Abby and Lev, fights Abby.
  • Abby and Lev escape and make it to Catalina Island.
  • Ellie returns home.
  • Ellie leaves.

Excellent
Thanks

So the First game itself Starts in Sept 2013, when it’s Joel’s birthday and his daughter gets shot. Outbreak day.

But then what? When Joel is with that woman, Tess and you actually really play...etc It jumps twenty years?
 
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ZywyPL

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I'm starting to think TLoU2 shouldn't have Ellie and Joel in it, at all, and actually fully focus on Abby or any other new character(s), I think that would allow to make actually a far better and more reasonable story, without to need to somehow connect it with the original, just a different story, different people, different places, but same universe, same/similar timeline, same gameplay kind of thing. Sort of what UC4:LL was, except much bigger, full standalone game.
 
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Ellery

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Finished the game. I super loved it. Not going into the story side of things now, but I have to say that I have never been this impressed with a game from the technical side of things.

The graphics, animations, environments, details and designs are out of this world. I am speechless how they managed to pull this off on the old 1.8 TF Playstation 4. That game looks better than anything I have seen before and I am a die hard PC gamer always having a very decent gaming PC and playing the latest games.

And in my opinion the gameplay is a gigantic upgrade compared to TLOU1. It feels so great to play this game. I would love for the game to get a big update patch on PS5 with upped framerate, resolution, textures and RayTracing.

I went in completely blind. Haven't read any spoilers and I think this game is amazing. I expected it to be a dark game and Ellie being the protagonist. I got that and much more. I can see why it is a game that some people dislike and are emotional about. Thankfully it is not the case for me. I went through so many emotions and at the end I needed to reflect for hours and agreed that it was a truly unique experience I will forever cherish and not knowing what happens beforehand was the must crucial thing about it.
 

Strategize

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No, they were stupid.

Again, you don’t send your best doctor in the open while pregnant with just two soldiers as a escort. Again, post apocalyptic world filled with millions of zombies that have made you barely retreat into a fucking stadium. And again, you are at war with a heavily armed sect that is actually winning against you.

You simply don’t take chances in that scenario. Even Abby tells Mel that she could stay if she asked it. It’s all just shitty writing, there’s literally no other way around.
The games gives you it's reasoning, as I've explained in great detail, like I said take it or leave I'm not getting hung up on this anymore.


Means that murderous torturing soldiers shouldn’t have emotions to a total stranger that presents such a high risk on their lives and who is shouting that she is gonna kill them all.
And many of them don't. Some of them do, turns these "murderous torturing soldiers" have individual characters, thoughts and emotions and aren't just the random goons they're presented as from Ellie's perspective.

Means that Abby shouldn’t have given mercy TWICE to the person that killed her love, her childhood friend and her other friends.
Thank god for Lev then, if he hadn't of stopped her they'd have died in Santa Barbra.

It’s just the ridiculous contrivance of the plot: Abby and Ellie can kill happily hundreds of bystanders, some of them innocent even, and nothing happens. That’s ok.

But they can’t kill each other, because that’s when the game tells you that then they can’t recover their humanity (as if Abby has one to begin with).

The other dozens and dozens of people are fine, but the actual person who has destroyed your life and have tried to murder you, that’s too much. How convenient.
Context Context Context. During TLOU's gameplay all the enemies are presented as fit and hostile, they will kill you here and now, in the moment, no questions asked.

This is also how Ellie is presented in the theater encounter, at first, so you, as Abby attempt to kill her just like everyone else. You're about to succeed before Dina, a pregnant women steps in. Lev helps Abby see the light and convinces Abby not to kill a pregnant women, so therefore as a result she also can't kill Ellie because then the cycle may continue with Dina. So this time, finally she takes the high road rather than enacting revenge.

In the beach encounter, Abby has already taken the high road and is a broken, beaten, battered women and is a physical shell of her former self. There is no fight for survival, no rivalry here anymore. Just one sided desperation from Ellie stooping as low as threatening someone who saved both her and Dina's lives in order to get a reaction from Abby. Who has zero interest in fighting her, only caring about Lev's safety.

In short, the way the morality framing of these two scenes in comparison to the average TLOU kill or be killed situation, isn't the same.
 
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Gods&Monsters

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I'm starting to think TLoU2 shouldn't have Ellie and Joel in it, at all, and actually fully focus on Abby or any other new character(s), I think that would allow to make actually a far better and more reasonable story, without to need to somehow connect it with the original, just a different story, different people, different places, but same universe, same/similar timeline, same gameplay kind of thing. Sort of what UC4:LL was, except much bigger, full standalone game.

At that point just create a new franchise and call it "The Savage Truck Woman and her Trans Boy Part 1: Deadnamed Lily" but seriously you want more of these characters? They came from out of nowhere in an established franchise and took center stage. I couldn't wait to go back to Ellie even if the gameplay was good. The sequel was her moment to shine but they turned her into a psycho instead and by the end I was like whatever...die if you want it so bad Ellie.
 
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ZywyPL

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At that point just create a new franchise and call it "The Savage Truck Woman and her Trans Boy Part 1: Deadnamed Lily" but seriously you want more of these characters? They came from out of nowhere in an established franchise and took center stage. I couldn't wait to go back to Ellie even if the gameplay was good. The sequel was her moment to shine but they turned her into a psycho instead and by the end I was like whatever...die if you want it so bad Ellie.

What I meant is, TLoU didn't needed any continuation, like, at all. Many people didn't bother with Left Behind DLC because the felt TLoU is a complete story, rather than a finished chapter, there's nothing more that can/needs to be added. If you think about it, it really was impossible to match the original, let alone top it, and ND has set themselves for the impossible regardless. But if they already created the universe and wanted to use it again, then like I said, they could've made a game set in different location, about different people, their own struggle for survival in this hostile world, rather than ruin everything they accomplished and what people loved in the first game.
 
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What I meant is, TLoU didn't needed any continuation, like, at all. Many people didn't bother with Left Behind DLC because the felt TLoU is a complete story, rather than a finished chapter, there's nothing more that can/needs to be added. If you think about it, it really was impossible to match the original, let alone top it, and ND has set themselves for the impossible regardless. But if they already created the universe and wanted to use it again, then like I said, they could've made a game set in different location, about different people, their own struggle for survival in this hostile world, rather than ruin everything they accomplished and what people loved in the first game.
I've seen a lot of arguments against The last of us 2 but this might be the first one I've seen claiming it somehow ruins the first game in some way.
 

Ulysses 31

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I've seen a lot of arguments against The last of us 2 but this might be the first one I've seen claiming it somehow ruins the first game in some way.
Surely you must've seen some variations of that argument how later movies destroy the earlier ones, like Alien 3 ruins Aliens, Terminator Dark Fate ruins T2, etc. :lollipop_grinning: :lollipop_grinning: :lollipop_grinning:
 
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Surely you've must seen some variations of that argument how later movies destroy the earlier ones, like Alien 3 ruins Aliens, Terminator Dark Fate ruins T2, etc. :lollipop_grinning: :lollipop_grinning: :lollipop_grinning:
Yeah I've seen it with movies and I've never agreed with it you can just pretend the new movie doesn't exist. How could anything tarnish something as perfect as Terminator 2 or aliens?
 

Gods&Monsters

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What I meant is, TLoU didn't needed any continuation, like, at all. Many people didn't bother with Left Behind DLC because the felt TLoU is a complete story, rather than a finished chapter, there's nothing more that can/needs to be added. If you think about it, it really was impossible to match the original, let alone top it, and ND has set themselves for the impossible regardless. But if they already created the universe and wanted to use it again, then like I said, they could've made a game set in different location, about different people, their own struggle for survival in this hostile world, rather than ruin everything they accomplished and what people loved in the first game.

To a degree, you're right that the first game felt very complete but if you give me 5 minutes I can come up with 10 plot points that involves Ellie, Joel and the fireflies for a second adventure. None of them involve Abby taking all the space and make it about her.

I've seen a lot of arguments against The last of us 2 but this might be the first one I've seen claiming it somehow ruins the first game in some way.

Not ruined but it turned Joel into a bad villain. Like he was wrong for saving Ellie and he hurt poor Abby in the process. Even Ellie turned against him. I'm sure goombas and bokoblins also have family members. We don't care about them. That's what Abby is, a random NPC.

Also at the end Tommy was so rude to Ellie after everything they went through. This is not how he acted at all in the first or in the beginning of TLOU2. That's just wrong.
 
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Jon Neu

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The games gives you it's reasoning, as I've explained in great detail, like I said take it or leave I'm not getting hung up on this anymore.

The game gives a poor reasoning that doesn’t justify it’s stupid actions at all. Like I said, you are deflecting because you can’t even bring yourself to accept that the script is poorly written.


And many of them don't. Some of them do, turns these "murderous torturing soldiers" have individual characters, thoughts and emotions and aren't just the random goons they're presented as from Ellie's perspective

Having individual characters means little when they are all aboard in murder, torture and kill children. You can’t have your cake and eat it.

The fact that they decide to not kill this random stranger that puts them all their lives at serious risk is just another dumb plot armor and lazy writting.

And guess what? They all end up dead for that.

Thank god for Lev then, if he hadn't of stopped her they'd have died in Santa Barbra

Or, you know, Abby could have killed her and Tommy the first time and all her friends would be alive.

Literally the moral of the story is: don’t let witness alive and you’ll be fine.

This is also how Ellie is presented in the theater encounter, at first, so you, as Abby attempt to kill her just like everyone else. You're about to succeed before Dina, a pregnant women steps in. Lev helps Abby see the light and convinces Abby not to kill a pregnant women, so therefore as a result she also can't kill Ellie because then the cycle may continue with Dina. So this time, finally she takes the high road rather than enacting revenge

Lev is the greatest charlatan ever, he can convince Abby from going to murderous psycho about to kill a pregnant teen with joy, to being the next Jesus in literally 1 second and just by calling her name. Impressive.

Abby hasn’t seen any light, she is still a murderous psycho that doesn’t repent at all. She is just running away now that all her friends are dead, she is just clinging to Lev and the fireflies to give her sad life some purpose and that’s why she wants to run away so desperately. But she hasn’t changed at all, she is just trying to survive in a situation of extreme weakness.

At the end, the game goes for the big espectacle and the shallow manipulations instead of earning the character choices and paths with good writting.

Abby and Ellie can kill hundreds of people and doesn’t matter, but they can’t kill each other because then they will lose their humanity.

Abby can kill anybody who get’s in her way and nothing happens, but she can’t kill Ellie because that would be too much and she would lose her humanity.

Ellie can kill anybody who get’s in her way to find Abby, but she can’t kill Abby because that would be too much and she would lose her humanity.

Meanwhile, the hundreds and hundreds of corpses they have let in the way, don’t mean anything, they literally don’t matter.

Such profound moral message.
 
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To a degree, you're right that the first game felt very complete but if you give me 5 minutes I can come up with 10 plot points that involves Ellie, Joel and the fireflies for a second adventure. None of them involve Abby taking all the space and make it about her.



Not ruined but it turned Joel into a bad villain. Like he was wrong for saving Ellie and he hurt poor Abby in the process. Even Ellie turned against him. I'm sure goombas and bokoblins also have family members. We don't care about them. That's what Abby is, a random NPC.

Also at the end Tommy was so rude to Ellie after everything they went through. This is not how he acted at all in the first or in the beginning of TLOU2. That's just wrong.
Whether or not Joel was wrong doesn't change the fact that the people he killed could have family members who cared about them and that those family members would view the people Joel killed as simply people who wanted to save the world. the game is pushing the idea of how much perspective matters not that Joel is a villain but that Joel is a villain to certain people. Also Ellie wanted to forgive him but her being upset is set up by the first game she gives a long speech about her friend Riley and about how her immunity has to mean something. If she were to find out Joel took that from her obviously she would be upset with him.
 
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SlicedBread3

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Not ruined but it turned Joel into a bad villain. Like he was wrong for saving Ellie and he hurt poor Abby in the process. Even Ellie turned against him. I'm sure goombas and bokoblins also have family members. We don't care about them. That's what Abby is, a random NPC.

I'm sorry but you're not going to convince me that a game where you play as a Goomba hunting down Mario to avenge it's parents wouldn't be amazing.
 

Gods&Monsters

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Whether or not Joel was wrong doesn't change the fact that the people he killed could have family members who cared about them and that those family members would view the people Joel killed as simply people who wanted to save the world. the game is pushing the idea of how much perspective matters not that Joel is a villain but that Joel is a villain to certain people. Also Ellie wanted to forgive him but her being upset is set up by the first game she gives a long speech about her friend Riley and about how her immunity has to mean something. If she were to find out Joel took that from her obviously she would be upset with him.

I understand what they wanted to do but it wasn't effective as a 30 hours video game story. If Ellie wanted her immunity to mean something then she could convince Joel to look for the Fireflies again. We know they exist because Abby and Lev made it to their island at the end of the game. Then Abby, the antagonist, would get in the way with her shitty revenge. Joel would later get captured/tortured by Abby. Rescue mission. Ellie gets involved with the Scars and Lev/Yara against the WLF. Abby is the final boss where you get to eviscerate her. They make it to the Fireflies. Done. Part 3 next. Praise everywhere, no backlash.

Instead we got this tired cliche Hamlet revenge plot where Claudius is the martyr and hero of the story and Ellie...please just die already.
 
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Sub_Level

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And in my opinion the gameplay is a gigantic upgrade compared to TLOU1.

I'm halfway through TLOU1 Survivor right now and can only agree.

TLOU1 feels like Eastern European jank compared to 2. 1 still has its merits with its own resource management & encounter design, but 2 truly is a huge advancement.
 
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I understand what they wanted to do but it wasn't effective as a 30 hours video game story. If Ellie wanted her immunity to mean something then she could convince Joel to look for the Fireflies again. We know they exist because Abby and Lev made it to their island at the end of the game. Then Abby, the antagonist, would get in the way with her shitty revenge. Joel would later get captured/tortured by Abby. Rescue mission. Ellie gets involved with the Scars and Lev/Yara against the WLF. Abby is the final boss where you get to eviscerate her. They make it to the Fireflies. Done. Part 3 next. Praise everywhere, no backlash.

Instead we got this tired cliche Hamlet revenge plot where Claudius is the martyr and hero of the story and Ellie...please just die already.
man there really are a lot of people here who think they're amazing writers like you literally just claimed your version of what should have happened would have been more praised than what we got. Are you a professional writer if not why aren't you? Clearly you can easily write stories but not only will be full of praise but no backlash.
 
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Kagero

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Finished the game. I super loved it. Not going into the story side of things now, but I have to say that I have never been this impressed with a game from the technical side of things.

The graphics, animations, environments, details and designs are out of this world. I am speechless how they managed to pull this off on the old 1.8 TF Playstation 4. That game looks better than anything I have seen before and I am a die hard PC gamer always having a very decent gaming PC and playing the latest games.

And in my opinion the gameplay is a gigantic upgrade compared to TLOU1. It feels so great to play this game. I would love for the game to get a big update patch on PS5 with upped framerate, resolution, textures and RayTracing.

I went in completely blind. Haven't read any spoilers and I think this game is amazing. I expected it to be a dark game and Ellie being the protagonist. I got that and much more. I can see why it is a game that some people dislike and are emotional about. Thankfully it is not the case for me. I went through so many emotions and at the end I needed to reflect for hours and agreed that it was a truly unique experience I will forever cherish and not knowing what happens beforehand was the must crucial thing about it.
I agree. Still not completed yet but this game is so far, my fave game of all time. Every facet is just miles ahead of anything I’ve ever experienced in this gender. I actually came in here the say, fuck that rat king boss”, but saw your note and decided to respond because I agree. What an amazing accomplishment. Head and shoulders above every developer out there.
 
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Gamer79

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IF Abbey posed in a nudie mag I would probably say she would be more for the Play Girl than Play Boy. She has a bigger chest than Terminator Arnold
 

trapanesenyc

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Because Joel is a father figure that is ready to protect his child at any cost. We all have dads or those kind of people in our lives so we can relate and understand his actions.

Abby didn't exist in TLOU1, they made her up for TLOU2 and turned her into some kind of martyr and gave her all the attention in the sequel. She was just the daughter of that random faceless doctor we never cared about. The scene where she "switches" and kills Joel after he helps her is just terrible. She was fine as an antagonist and Lev could have been Ellie's ally for something.

As you can see by the reception, everybody hates her and pointless Lev besides ERA who got their trash "representation". At what cost tho?
Everyone doesn't hate Abby, people are just more vocal about their hate than appreciation. But the "Abby is should only be an antagonist cause she killed Joel" ruins the whole theme. There a million "bad guy kills beloved character, so they now the enemy" stories if that's what you want, but the whole point was to show everyone is a hero and villain from their own perspective. We spent the whole first LOU with Ellie and Joel so we have 7 years of growing to love these characters. But if TLOU1 was about a girl traveling the country with her father who's a doctor looking for a cure just for him to be killed in the end, then we are going to play the killer in PT 2 we'd have equal hate for Joel and Ellie.
 

WarrenD

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So I’ve just finished. I knew the plot points going in but I can only feel it’s a great playing game held ransom by a fucking terrible story. I just can’t get over how stupid it all was at times. That ending though has killed me. I travel through hell, throw my relationship away. I find Abby. I cut her down and take a slow walk to the beach with her. I’ve got a fully loaded smg on my back but decide to have another shit fight against her and give up? That has actually pissed me off.

It’s a great game to play but my god if it had a half decent story it would have been truly something else. Give the franchise to a competent writer now please. That was beyond stupid.
 
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Valentino

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So I’ve just finished. I knew the plot points going in but I can only feel it’s a great playing game held ransom by a fucking terrible story. I just can’t get over how stupid it all was at times. That ending though has killed me. I travel through hell, throw my relationship away. I find Abby. I cut her down and take a slow walk to the beach with her. I’ve got a fully loaded smg on my back but decide to have another shit fight against her and give up? That has actually pissed me off.

It’s a great game to play but my god if it had a half decent story it would have been truly something else. Give the franchise to a competent writer now please. That was beyond stupid.

Ending it like that didn't make me feel that way at all.
I wasn't expecting some pay off. I knew there was going to be a lesson for these characters. I don't even think I would have found satisfaction in ending Abby's life....... I felt sorry for both of them to be honest. Sounds corny but I felt uncomfortable battering Ellie in the theatre, then beating down a dishevelled Abby on the beach.
However, I found the whole level dedicated to getting Yara medical supplies.......for her to die. And then going after Lev to get him back only for him to find his mom died and then Yara gets killed for it. So 2 wasted trips! 😂
I'll play game+ and see if I can appreciate those trips more.

Side note: Does Ellie ever ask about Marlene? Like isn't she wondering where her foster carer is because that's basically who she was to Ellie.
 
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DragoonKain

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I finally finished it and man what a letdown. It was not a bad game by any means, but it pales so vastly in comparison to the first, drags on waaaaaaaaay too long, making the gameplay more repetitive. The action and combat elements of this game are not meant for long single player stories like this. Too much action and the mission areas didn't compliment stealth well. I think the game would have been better served either being shorter with less areas to trek through, or design it so it fits stealth more. It was such a freaking chore trying to do stealth in most areas, making it not fun to do. Then, if you resort to action and shooting it gets repetitive.

As for the story, I think it basically ruined two what could be iconic characters.

I love father/daughter stories or even father/son stories. In this case "daughter." That dynamic was sucked out of the plot in the first couple hours. To me that's what made TLOU1 so great. That dynamic between those two. My favorite moments in the entire game were the Ellie/Joel flashbacks. Everything outside of that I thought ranged from bleh to just "good." I didn't care about Abby or any of her friends at all. It sucked the emotion out of the plot for me. It felt like it was done for shock value to remove Joel, and also the narrative that they wanted the story to be about dictated plot elements, rather than having them organically fit together.

And it really got trite and over the top at the end. Ellie trekking down the entire west coast just to kill a girl when she already let her go. Then gets there and decides not to anymore? That's super Hollywood. I feel they absolutely ruined Ellie's character. Ruined her growth. And in turn, ruined the series. Unless they go prequel(which wouldn't have Ellie and Joel together) I have no interest in the series at all going forward.

And fuck you Naughty Dog for making me fight Ellie with Abby. I let Ellie kill me like 50 times before I got through that part.
 
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NYR

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Thanks

So the First game itself Starts in Sept 2013, when it’s Joel’s birthday and his daughter gets shot. Outbreak day.

But then what? When Joel is with that woman, Tess and you actually really play...etc It jumps twenty years?
Not quite. Tommy and Joel go off and do their thing and it’s simply mentioned they do some fucked up shit - like evil shit killing people to survive. Druckmann even mentioned the original concept for Abby was she was in a caravan of survivors and Joel and Tommy kill them, including Abby’s parents, for supplies, etc and that is why she hunts them down.

Eventually, Tommy wants to join the Fireflies and Joel doesn’t believe in that horseshit - they fight and part ways.

All we know is over the years, Tommy makes it to Wyoming and Joel ends up in Boston and is in Boston for some time as he has built a rep there as a smuggler and a lot of people know him including trading partners like Bill, that wouldn’t have happened if he was only there for a year or so.
 
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