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News Spoilers All The Last of Us 2 leaks/spoilers in here and nowhere else.

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Deer/Dur
Feb 2, 2009
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The problem is that this is never demonstrated to the player that he has softened. We spent no time with Joel except at the opening scene and the ride back to Jackson through the pile of people he and Tommy killed. We get a little time with him as Abby where he saves her and shows us he hasn’t lost a step as he and Tommy waste a bunch of infected. That’s it. As far as we know, he’s the same Joel.

This is where the feeling of inconsistency in character comes from. They never show him making a mistake or doing something soft as a result of his life in Jackson. He’s Joel from the first game as far as everyone is concerned.

Totally agree. I understand the value of nuance and subtlety, but sometimes its best to "play it big" dramatically and emotionally. Especially so when the minute-to-minute gameplay is so raw and violent, its a bad mismatch.

I sorta think they overestimate the effectiveness of their visual storytelling, Yes, you should always show rather than tell, but only if everyone picks up on the key details you've avoided describing!
 
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Umbral

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Totally agree. I understand the value of nuance and subtlety, but sometimes its best to "play it big" dramatically and emotionally. Especially so when the minute-to-minute gameplay is so raw and violent, its a bad mismatch.

I sorta think they overestimate the effectiveness of their visual storytelling, Yes, you should always show rather than tell, but only if everyone picks up on the key details you've avoided describing!
Agreed. It’s bizarre that there are other scenes where there didn’t need to be dialogue and yet they added lines to point out something obvious. I don’t do reviews, but this game has really made me want to.

I hope that someone at Naughty Dog has the humility to take on valid criticisms.

Something that I’d like to hear more people’s opinions on is Dina and Dina/Ellie. I did not like Dina at all and thought their relationship was not believable or deep. Alanah Pearce has pretty much the same opinion, yet I’ve heard others talk about how much they loved it and how believable it was or how much they loved Dina.
 

Sub_Level

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Something that I’d like to hear more people’s opinions on is Dina and Dina/Ellie. I did not like Dina at all and thought their relationship was not believable or deep. Alanah Pearce has pretty much the same opinion, yet I’ve heard others talk about how much they loved it and how believable it was or how much they loved Dina.

Dina is just there to serve as another tether to Ellie's humanity. A tether that Ellie decides to break like so many others. The actual relationship was shallow, but what relationship between 19 year olds isn't? Banging, smoking weed, & making irresponsible choices all ring true with that demographic. She's probably not gonna contemplate Foucalt with Ellie over a glass of bourbon.
 
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GribbleGrunger

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Agreed. It’s bizarre that there are other scenes where there didn’t need to be dialogue and yet they added lines to point out something obvious. I don’t do reviews, but this game has really made me want to.

I hope that someone at Naughty Dog has the humility to take on valid criticisms.

Something that I’d like to hear more people’s opinions on is Dina and Dina/Ellie. I did not like Dina at all and thought their relationship was not believable or deep. Alanah Pearce has pretty much the same opinion, yet I’ve heard others talk about how much they loved it and how believable it was or how much they loved Dina.

Dina flatlined through the whole game. She had no depth and no character development. There was nothing at all for Ellie and Dina to bounce of each other with. I love you, you love me, lets have sex, I love you, you love me, I'm pregnant, I love you, you love me, happy life on the ranch, I love you, you left me. That's it. Ellie should have gone dark and when I say dark, I mean DARK. She should have had full on psychosis, heard and seen Joel, losing it more and more as Dina and her progressed. Dina should have been a bitch, tagging along because she'd also lost someone she loved in the Joel dying scene. That would have given a breadth and depth to play with. Get rid of the smoking grass scene and put the sex scene later on after Dina and Ellie had suffered together on their journey.
 
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Clear

Deer/Dur
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Agreed. It’s bizarre that there are other scenes where there didn’t need to be dialogue and yet they added lines to point out something obvious. I don’t do reviews, but this game has really made me want to.

I hope that someone at Naughty Dog has the humility to take on valid criticisms.

Something that I’d like to hear more people’s opinions on is Dina and Dina/Ellie. I did not like Dina at all and thought their relationship was not believable or deep. Alanah Pearce has pretty much the same opinion, yet I’ve heard others talk about how much they loved it and how believable it was or how much they loved Dina.

Its a funny one because its a rare case where I can sympathize with some people who think its a 10/10, and also those who'd score it much lower (Gribblegrunger for instance).

For me its an 8/10 that as a whole is less than the sum of its parts.

It has some fantastic stuff in it, but i feel like the way its constructed does it no favors, and there are a slew of creative/directorial choices I disagree with in the narrative. The visuals and sound design are phenomenal and I generally enjoyed the gameplay obviously.
 

GribbleGrunger

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Its a funny one because its a rare case where I can sympathize with some people who think its a 10/10, and also those who'd score it much lower (Gribblegrunger for instance).

For me its an 8/10 that as a whole is less than the sum of its parts.

It has some fantastic stuff in it, but i feel like the way its constructed does it no favors, and there are a slew of creative/directorial choices I disagree with in the narrative. The visuals and sound design are phenomenal and I generally enjoyed the gameplay obviously.

It has some moments, yes, but they're obliterated so quickly you have no time to digest and appreciate them. In the first game they'd set up an emotion and that emotion would carry through, giving you a deeper appreciation of the story and characters. In this they're 'spot' moment, designed specifically to create an emotion for the sake of it.
 
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Umbral

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Dina flatlined through the whole game. She had no depth and no character development. There was nothing at all for Ellie and Dina to bounce of each other with. I love you, you love me, lets have sex, I love you, you love me, I'm pregnant, I love you, you love me, happy life on the ranch, I love you, you left me. That's it. Ellie should have gone dark and when I say dark, I mean DARK. She should have had full on psychosis, heard and seen Joel, losing it more and more as Dina and her progressed. Dina should have been a bitch, tagging along because she'd also lost someone she loved in the Joel dying scene. That would have given a breadth and depth to play with.
The game starts with her having just left Jesse a week prior, after he apparently busted in her, then she immediately jumps onto Ellie, kissing Ellie in public on the dance floor in front of Jesse, seemingly to make him jealous, or she’s just promiscuous (which is a stereotype of bisexual people). She never tells Jesse that his swimmers knocked her up. She has a scene with him where it seems tender and she really cares about him when he shows up in Hillcrest, but on the night of the dance, she’s rude to him when she grabs Ellie’s hand like they ended on a bad note even though she said it was just autopilot and nothing bad.

She also never shuts up about how awesome and spectacular she is. Nobody’s buying it, Dina. You’re insecure as shit. Being conceited isn’t a personality.
 

psorcerer

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The game starts with her having just left Jesse a week prior, after he apparently busted in her, then she immediately jumps onto Ellie, kissing Ellie in public on the dance floor in front of Jesse, seemingly to make him jealous, or she’s just promiscuous (which is a stereotype of bisexual people). She never tells Jesse that his swimmers knocked her up. She has a scene with him where it seems tender and she really cares about him when he shows up in Hillcrest, but on the night of the dance, she’s rude to him when she grabs Ellie’s hand like they ended on a bad note even though she said it was just autopilot and nothing bad.

She also never shuts up about how awesome and spectacular she is. Nobody’s buying it, Dina. You’re insecure as shit. Being conceited isn’t a personality.

She's promiscuous. It's hinted multiple times.
Even Ellie says that's "Dina being Dina" about her kiss.
 
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GribbleGrunger

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The game starts with her having just left Jesse a week prior, after he apparently busted in her, then she immediately jumps onto Ellie, kissing Ellie in public on the dance floor in front of Jesse, seemingly to make him jealous, or she’s just promiscuous (which is a stereotype of bisexual people). She never tells Jesse that his swimmers knocked her up. She has a scene with him where it seems tender and she really cares about him when he shows up in Hillcrest, but on the night of the dance, she’s rude to him when she grabs Ellie’s hand like they ended on a bad note even though she said it was just autopilot and nothing bad.

She also never shuts up about how awesome and spectacular she is. Nobody’s buying it, Dina. You’re insecure as shit. Being conceited isn’t a personality.

Exactly. Her character traits were all over the place. If they'd made her a bitch, got rid of Jesse and the baby (keeping it simple instead of making her pregnant just so they could mirror Ellie killing a pregnant woman and so 'feeling' something. And also mirroring abby about to kill a pregnant woman ... God that was crass) we could have had an interesting dynamic that mirrored the first game to some degree and that would have been fine. Two people reluctantly working together for a common goal, finding love between them (Dina playing the Joel role) and eventually leading to them making love. They were putting scenes in for the sake of it.

At the end of the day though, I would have completely rewritten it and made sure the tone was in line with the first game. Pregnancy was actually a theme I suggested before we even heard of the second game but I think my idea was far more interesting and revolutionary in terms of game stories.
 
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trikster40

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So, wrapped up the game yesterday. Solid 31 hours start to finish. Story sticks with you, both the good and the bad.

I struggled with Abby. I hated her so much for what she did, the way she acted. I even killed myself a few times for fun (loved jumping off the sky bridge with her). I wanted her to die, I wanted Elllie to do it painfully, but after playing through her story, I shifted a bit. Still didn’t like her, but, damn, she suffered enough especially by the end after months with the Rattlers. Still not quite sure how she changed her tune so fast with the Seraphite and Lev. Little thin there on the character development.

Ellie. Oh Ellie. I was with you the whole way until you left Dina to go to Santa Barbara. You had a home, a kid, a life. I get it though. The ending was poetic. However, you went through all that shit, wouldn’t just let Abby go, but you couldn’t go through with it. I wish they had let her just go stone cold and finish her.

Honest question: Lev/Lily. Was it a boy, or was it a girl? Or was it a girl who wanted to be a boy? Yara and Abby always said He/brother, but the scars said her. I know that Lev was supposed to be given to one of the elders, but I just didn’t know if they were just sick or what. I don’t mean to try to assign a gender, just trying to figure out what the writers were doing with Lev.
 

GribbleGrunger

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So, wrapped up the game yesterday. Solid 31 hours start to finish. Story sticks with you, both the good and the bad.

I struggled with Abby. I hated her so much for what she did, the way she acted. I even killed myself a few times for fun (loved jumping off the sky bridge with her). I wanted her to die, I wanted Elllie to do it painfully, but after playing through her story, I shifted a bit. Still didn’t like her, but, damn, she suffered enough especially by the end after months with the Rattlers. Still not quite sure how she changed her tune so fast with the Seraphite and Lev. Little thin there on the character development.

Ellie. Oh Ellie. I was with you the whole way until you left Dina to go to Santa Barbara. You had a home, a kid, a life. I get it though. The ending was poetic. However, you went through all that shit, wouldn’t just let Abby go, but you couldn’t go through with it. I wish they had let her just go stone cold and finish her.

Honest question: Lev/Lily. Was it a boy, or was it a girl? Or was it a girl who wanted to be a boy? Yara and Abby always said He/brother, but the scars said her. I know that Lev was supposed to be given to one of the elders, but I just didn’t know if they were just sick or what. I don’t mean to try to assign a gender, just trying to figure out what the writers were doing with Lev.

Lev was a girl who wanted to be a boy. Evidently, even when brainwashed by a cult, in a world full of fear, murder and monsters, crimes against minorities weigh heavily on these souls. Then we had a bisexual (Dina), and lesbian (Elie) and a character build clearly designed to confuse the sexes (Abby). They should have stuck a wig and some lippo on one of the clickers just to top it off. Poor Ellie had gone through so much but a 'bigot' really rattled her cage. Gave her a 'bigot sandwich' too ...
 
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trikster40

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So, wrapped up the game yesterday. Solid 31 hours start to finish. Story sticks with you, both the good and the bad.

I struggled with Abby. I hated her so much for what she did, the way she acted. I even killed myself a few times for fun (loved jumping off the sky bridge with her). I wanted her to die, I wanted Elllie to do it painfully, but after playing through her story, I shifted a bit. Still didn’t like her, but, damn, she suffered enough especially by the end after months with the Rattlers. Still not quite sure how she changed her tune so fast with the Seraphite and Lev. Little thin there on the character development.

Ellie. Oh Ellie. I was with you the whole way until you left Dina to go to Santa Barbara. You had a home, a kid, a life. I get it though. The ending was poetic. However, you went through all that shit, wouldn’t just let Abby go, but you couldn’t go through with it. I wish they had let her just go stone cold and finish her.

Honest question: Lev/Lily. Was it a boy, or was it a girl? Or was it a girl who wanted to be a boy? Yara and Abby always said He/brother
Lev was a girl who wanted to be a boy. Evidently, even when brainwashed by a cult, in a world full of fear, murder and monsters, crimes against minorities weigh heavily on these souls. Then we had a bisexual (Dina), and lesbian (Elie) and a character build clearly designed to confuse the sexes (Abby). They should have stuck a wig and some lippo on one of the clickers just to top it off. Poor Ellie had gone through so much but a 'bigot' really rattled her cage. Gave her a 'bigot sandwich' too ...

Thanks, that’s kind of what I thought but it was just a little vague.

I got pissed at the way she treated Joel. I get a bit of the anger, but she doesn’t strike me as the sacrificial kind of person who is so upset that she couldn’t save humanity. Geez, get so mad just because he stood up for you,
 

GribbleGrunger

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Thanks, that’s kind of what I thought but it was just a little vague.

I got pissed at the way she treated Joel. I get a bit of the anger, but she doesn’t strike me as the sacrificial kind of person who is so upset that she couldn’t save humanity. Geez, get so mad just because he stood up for you,

I honestly felt nothing. I didn't care that Joel was getting his head staved in. I didn't care that it had been Abby that did it. I just felt cheated of that moment because we never got to experience Joel again. I expected Joel to die. I'd gone into the game more or less knowing it had to be done. It wasn't earned. It was cheap and had no impact. Maybe on a superficial level for some people, but not for me.
 

SlicedBread3

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So I really enjoyed the game and the story. But I'm also firmly on Ellie's side and think she would have been justified in killing Abby.

Can sometime tell me what side of the argument I'm supposed to join in this situation? 😂
 
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mrpeabody

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Makeshift melee weapons, scoped semi-automatic rifles, pipe bombs, molotovs, powerful pistols, flamethrowers, deadly airborne poison forcing the use of gas masks, combat/traversal through broken-down buildings, and a long crawl across an empty no man's land against a distant sniper.

Mechanically, this game is set in World War I.
 

GeorgPrime

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If i think about it:

They just took Part One, reused it in Part 2 with Joel and Ellie being wokenized into Abby "The Man" Anderson and Lev.

In the process they killed Joel (another great character) and i think they will get rid of Ellie in Part 3 to focus on Abby and Lev.
 

Lunk

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but I do agree with the premise that Abby’s story was written first.
100%. Earliest interview pre-launch Druckmann was talking in this way where "We had these ideas but they didn't resonate, ultimately we had to stay true to the story of the first game, as a sequel". I think they did have the "Joel dies" storyline in mind early, but I think they spent most of the early days actually discussing Abby's entire "side-quest" before they went and arranged the first part of the story and how she would be involved in that. It's the only way it makes sense to me and why he's trying to scapegoat the lack of structure so hard by saying "you play as Abby to develop Empathy".

I do think the final product has a running theme of "you didn't see what led up to the violence, and therefore you develop hatred" and I wanna give some credit to the structure of the plot, first showing Ellie get angry because of Joel's death, but then learning that Joel died because HIS action did the same thing to Abby's personal life, losing her dad. But it's the whole "Lev" part of Abby that feels so "early concept" to me, and drags the story on needlessly and then even making you play as Abby, the aggressor in the only playable portion of "revenge" (Ellie takes revenge on Abby's crew but ultimately never the culprit. Abby is taking her second revenge by heading to kill Ellie).

But really, I think they prematurely showed a part that would have been cut at E3 2017 with the "Torture Porn" scene, where the "All New TLOU2 cast Written By Halley Gross" shows up. Back then I truly thought they had abandoned the idea of a true Joel & Ellie sequel and headed for a new cast, and I honestly think they were experimenting to see if they could -- realizing that the Joel storyline really HAD ended, and thus needing another cast to justify a sequel in this IP. But in the end they had to try and do both just to give a semblence of meat to the storyline, and they just don't combine well. I really think these are two different game-pitches that clashed together.
 

vpance

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If i think about it:

They just took Part One, reused it in Part 2 with Joel and Ellie being wokenized into Abby "The Man" Anderson and Lev.

In the process they killed Joel (another great character) and i think they will get rid of Ellie in Part 3 to focus on Abby and Lev.

Can see that happening. But I think they are done with all these chars. Maybe there’ll be DLC though.

I reckon ND may never have a straight and/or white person as the main char in their games ever again.
 

Gods&Monsters

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I just finished TLOU2 totally free of spoilers and let me start by saying that I'm so angry about what they did with my beloved Joel. Everyone liked that character but they had to kill him right at the beginning to make space for Ellie and her girlfriend...and that terrible dyke Abby? Why does that cunt even have to exist? Terrible decision and totally inexcusable.

I get that they wanted to show us "the other side" but I really didn't care about her. All of that should have been cut from game and the part with the trans kid that went on FOREVEEER should have been with Ellie to help Joel or Tommy.

I didn't care about the zombie cliche "oh...who are the REAL monsters now huh?" All the emotional scenes with Abby, Lev and Yara left me cold, no sympathy at all for them (same with Owen and that ugly Mel). It sucks because their part is even longer than Ellie's. I was exhausted while playing as Abby. I loved her death scenes tho. I would always let her get killed a couple of times to watch her bleed and suffer lol.

The first part of the game is a 10/10. For the second part, the gameplay is good but it drags way too much and the story is whatever, fuck Abby and Lev. Abby's whole existence is so pointless, they are forcing us to care about her and that trans. We don't. Bury them.

I guess Neil's real agenda was to destroy his own franchise/characters. I hope they never bring back Abby and Lev ever again, it would be a huge flop anyway. I would pay to watch Ellie put them alive through a meat grinder and feed them to the infected.
 

Strategize

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The big one

Pretty bad review. Because most of it is him naming "plot holes and out of character things" that aren't actually plot holes or out of character thing and are explained in the game.

That's what happens when you try prove a story is bad instead of explaining how it made you feel and why you dislike it. It just comes across like you're a bit retarded.
 
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Pretty bad review. Because most of it is him naming "plot holes and out of character things" that aren't actually plot holes or out of character thing and are explained in the game.

That's what happens when you try prove a story is bad instead of explaining how it made you feel and why you dislike it. It just comes across like you're a bit retarded.

Hey, this is Angry Joe we're talking about, he knows what GOOD writing is BETTER than most critics! That's why he stood alone in defense of what an AWESOME movie Suicide Squad was. Man, am I harping on him loving Suicide Squad too much? To be fair, everyone in Suicide Squad behaved within their characters and there were no plot holes at all, in fact a more perfect plot with more perfectly realized characterizations has never existed in any medium.
 

Halo is Dead

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Gods&Monsters

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Holy smokes, this is the best review I have read/watched.

This review is incredible.

I see this video going around but it's not even a review? It's just a summary of the game story. They "explain" very obvious stuff and I'm like yeah I got all of that and? I get what ND were trying to do (who didn't?) but it wasn't effective. They failed to make us care about Abby and Lev. Psycho Terminator Ellie and her reasons to be mad at Joel was just silly. Joel didn't need to die so early. Tommy being rude all of a sudden was so out-of-character, etc.
 
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Jon Neu

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This is a dodgy take. Have you played the game? She is essentially in the army and her bedroom is next door to a huge fucking gym. All she does is work out and fight. Add to this the fact that she has made a monster of Joel in her mind and is determined to find ways to make her body a weapon to kill him, and you have great motivation for her dedication to fitness.

Burrito is a wonderful source of protein also.

I have played the game, still that body is not achievable for a woman without steroids. Steroids that will simply be all expired.

Burrito is an ok source of proteins, but you need much more than proteins to get a woman that big.
 
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Jon Neu

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Dina is just there to serve as another tether to Ellie's humanity. A tether that Ellie decides to break like so many others. The actual relationship was shallow, but what relationship between 19 year olds isn't? Banging, smoking weed, & making irresponsible choices all ring true with that demographic. She's probably not gonna contemplate Foucalt with Ellie over a glass of bourbon.

The problem is that they have zero chemistry, but the game tries to sell you this romantic relationship and fails miserably.
 
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Jon Neu

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PBecause most of it is him naming "plot holes and out of character things" that aren't actually plot holes or out of character thing and are explained in the game.

Like for example?

By the way, having the game explain something doesn’t mean isn’t a bad explanation. It’s ridiculous to quote the game as if it was this infallible perfect source of satisfactory explanations, precisely when it shows this level of bad writting.
 
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Strategize

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Like for example?

By the way, having the game explain something doesn’t mean isn’t a bad explanation. It’s ridiculous to quote the game as if it was this infallible perfect source of satisfactory explanations, precisely when it shows this level of bad writting.
Shit like saying Mel was a pregnant women going to the front lines when she was actually just a medic being transferred to another base. They didn't know they'd be ambushed.

Or he doesn't understand why they let Ellie and Tommy go, when it's blatantly explained by Owen the second time we see the scene.
 
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The Alien

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Legit Question.....

Haven't played the game, but plan to. I've heard conflicting accounts regarding Abby's....'appearance'.

Is she actually transgender or a muscular female? If transgender, do they address it in the game?
 
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I have played the game, still that body is not achievable for a woman without steroids. Steroids that will simply be all expired.

Burrito is an ok source of proteins, but you need much more than proteins to get a woman that big.

"Chemicals like steroids do not have an inherent predispostion for breakdown and dimished effect. The reason things go 'off' or expire is generally due to micro-organisms, bugs, infections that feed on the drug molecules breaking them down into the respective metabolites. "
 

Jon Neu

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Shit like saying Mel was a pregnant women going to the front lines when she was actually just a medic being transferred to another base. They didn't know they'd be ambushed.

Mel was doing the “usual rotation”. And Abby tells her that she can stay if she asks for it.

They were at war with the scars and live in a world in which hordes of zombies roam free. You can get ambushed literally at every corner and they know that (or should). It’s just plain retarded to let go a pregnant woman close to give birth who also is your BEST DOCTOR go in the open with just two soldiers as her escort.

AngryJoe is absolutely right there.


Or he doesn't understand why they let Ellie and Tommy go, when it's blatantly explained by Owen the second time we see the scene.

Again, the fact that the game “explains it” doesn’t make it less stupid. They are ruthless soldiers who kill people on a daily basis and brag about it, they have just tortured a man to death, but somehow they let this stranger of this highly armed and populated town go because reasons.

Literally Dina asks Ellie why they let her go out alive, and Ellie literally says: “maybe they are dumb”.

But it’s even more retarded when there is a second time, after Ellie kills Owen, Alice and Mel, and still Abby doesn’t kill her because she is suddenly the most moral person that ever lived since Jesus.


"Chemicals like steroids do not have an inherent predispostion for breakdown and dimished effect. The reason things go 'off' or expire is generally due to micro-organisms, bugs, infections that feed on the drug molecules breaking them down into the respective metabolites. "

The world of The Last Of Us seems like the perfect world to mess up with steroids, then. Probably not even not expired ones would work, if there are any left to begin with.

Also, Abby doesn’t take them. Cuckmann literally said that she is buff because she has a gym and that explains it. That’s the (stupid) game logic.
 
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Mel was doing the “usual rotation”. And Abby tells her that she can stay if she asks for it.

They were at war with the scars and live in a world in which hordes of zombies roam free. You can get ambushed literally at every corner and they know that (or should). It’s just plain retarded to let go a pregnant woman close to give birth who also is your BEST DOCTOR go in the open with just two soldiers as her escort.

AngryJoe is absolutely right there.




Again, the fact that the game “explains it” doesn’t make it less stupid. They are ruthless soldiers who kill people on a daily basis and brag about it, they have just tortured a man to death, but somehow they let this stranger of this highly armed and populated town go because reasons.

Literally Dina asks Ellie why they let her go out alive, and Ellie literally says: “maybe they are dumb”.

But it’s even more retarded when there is a second time, after Ellie kills Owen, Alice and Mel, and still Abby doesn’t kill her because she is suddenly the most moral person that ever lived since Jesus.




The world of The Last Of Us seems like the perfect world to mess up with steroids, then. Probably not even not expired ones would work, if there are any left to begin with.

Also, Abby doesn’t take them. Cuckmann literally said that she is buff because she has a gym and that explains it. That’s the (stupid) game logic.

Oh man, that goalpost shift! What does any left mean, though? Do you think when the world was ending there was a mad dash to collect and use all the steroids in the world? I'm sure if Druckmann argued Abby didn't take them that means the body model doesn't either? I still haven't seen anyone prove the body model takes them, and I don't mind if that sounds naive of me to point out.
 

Jon Neu

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Oh man, that goalpost shift! What does any left mean, though?

I don’t think you understand what a goalpost shift is.

And what does any left mean? Well, it means that the world of TLOU is a post apocalyptic world with heavily destroyed society, both physically and metaphorically. So you have first to take into account that a lot of them in the nearby are probably destroyed in the first place, and second and according to the information you yourself posted, the highly insalubrious world of TLOU is also akin to not preserve steroids at all. So you’re not only helping your case about Abby secretly taking them, you’re making the case for it to be literally impossible.

I'm sure if Druckmann argued Abby didn't take them that means the body model doesn't either?

lol what?


still haven't seen anyone prove the body model takes them, and I don't mind if that sounds naive of me to point out

Don’t worry, is not even in your top 10 of worst takes.
 
Aug 28, 2019
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I don’t think you understand what a goalpost shift is.

And what does any left mean? Well, it means that the world of TLOU is a post apocalyptic world with heavily destroyed society, both physically and metaphorically. So you have first to take into account that a lot of them in the nearby are probably destroyed in the first place, and second and according to the information you yourself posted, the highly insalubrious world of TLOU is also akin to not preserve steroids at all. So you’re not only helping your case about Abby secretly taking them, you’re making the case for it to be literally impossible.

See, you made the argument that steroids would expire... I showed you they don't expire and you changed the argument... that's called a goalpost shift.

I just don't see rioters looting the local GNC or something. What I posted doesn't really apply though because they're often in air-tight containers, the main idea was that you'd HAVE to get an infection of some kind to "go bad" but there's no depreciation in potency.
 

Jon Neu

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See, you made the argument that steroids would expire... I showed you they don't expire and you changed the argument... that's called a goalpost shift.

No, I said that steroids would be all expired by then, and you quoted some information that claims that steroids don’t expire by time, but they do expire if they are exposed to micro-organisms, bugs or infections. Which is precisely the type of things that rise up to insane levels in the post apocalyptic TLOU world.

Therefore you are not only helping your case at all, but you are literally destroying it. Which as with a lot of your posts, is deliciously funny.
 

Strategize

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Mel was doing the “usual rotation”. And Abby tells her that she can stay if she asks for it.

They were at war with the scars and live in a world in which hordes of zombies roam free. You can get ambushed literally at every corner and they know that (or should). It’s just plain retarded to let go a pregnant woman close to give birth who also is your BEST DOCTOR go in the open with just two soldiers as her escort.

AngryJoe is absolutely right there.
No he isn't. There's literally dialogue in the game saying the scars slipped through the WLF's lines after you reach the base. So no, they really didn't expect to be ambushed there.

You can either accept this, or stubbornly go "lalalalalala can't hear you it's still dumb".
Again, the fact that the game “explains it” doesn’t make it less stupid. They are ruthless soldiers who kill people on a daily basis and brag about it, they have just tortured a man to death, but somehow they let this stranger of this highly armed and populated town go because reasons.

Literally Dina asks Ellie why they let her go out alive, and Ellie literally says: “maybe they are dumb”.

But it’s even more retarded when there is a second time, after Ellie kills Owen, Alice and Mel, and still Abby doesn’t kill her because she is suddenly the most moral person that ever lived since Jesus.
Here's the issue. You're clearly thinking about this from a pragmatic "what it takes to survive" perspective.

The characters, are not, they're letting emotion dictate their decisions in these moments. This isn't bad writing just because it's not pragmatically "smart".

On both of these occasions Abby is influenced to show mercy by the two people she cares for most on both occasions. Firstly Owen, and secondly Lev.

Of course, to Ellie, they're just dumb, because she doesn't want to even think for a second that these people would willingly show mercy, they're monsters that deserve to die no matter what in her eyes. She's completely de-humanizing them, that's the point.
 
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Clover904

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No he isn't. There's literally dialogue in the game saying the scars slipped through the WLF's lines after you reach the base. So no, they really didn't expect to be ambushed there.

You can either accept this, or stubbornly go "lalalalalala can't hear you it's still dumb".

Here's the issue. You're clearly thinking about this from a pragmatic "what it takes to survive" perspective.

The characters, are not, they're letting emotion dictate their decisions in these moments. This isn't bad writing just because it's not pragmatically "smart".

On both of these occasions Abby is influenced to show mercy by the two people she cares for most on both occasions. Firstly Owen, and secondly Lev.

Of course, to Ellie, they're just dumb, because she doesn't want to even think for a second that these people would willingly show mercy, they're monsters that deserve to die no matter what in her eyes. She's completely de-humanizing them, that's the point.
Well said. Spot on.
 

PanzerAzel

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No he isn't. There's literally dialogue in the game saying the scars slipped through the WLF's lines after you reach the base. So no, they really didn't expect to be ambushed there.

You can either accept this, or stubbornly go "lalalalalala can't hear you it's still dumb".

Here's the issue. You're clearly thinking about this from a pragmatic "what it takes to survive" perspective.

The characters, are not, they're letting emotion dictate their decisions in these moments. This isn't bad writing just because it's not pragmatically "smart".

On both of these occasions Abby is influenced to show mercy by the two people she cares for most on both occasions. Firstly Owen, and secondly Lev.

Of course, to Ellie, they're just dumb, because she doesn't want to even think for a second that these people would willingly show mercy, they're monsters that deserve to die no matter what in her eyes. She's completely de-humanizing them, that's the point.
Mel is pregnant AND one of their best doctors, something that would be very protected and valued in such a world. They didn't expect an ambush? It is known that they are not secure at any time outside the immediate walls of the WLF base, an ambush isn't needed to understand this risk, and to let a pregnant women doctor out with only two others (riding exposed in the back of a truck, no less) is imbecilic and highly irresponsible at any time. Unless she is in an armored truck in a full on convoy, it is dumb any way you want to try to paint it.

I won't discount that emotion can make characters take irrational actions, but what was the predominant emotion driving this idiotic decision? There was nothing I saw that was pushing them, such as Ellie's burning hot desire for vengeance.
 
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Mel is pregnant AND one of their best doctors, something that would be very protected and valued in such a world. They didn't expect an ambush? It is known that they are not secure at any time outside the immediate walls of the WLF base, an ambush isn't needed to understand this risk, and to let a pregnant women doctor out with only two others (riding exposed in the back of a truck, no less) is imbecilic and highly irresponsible at any time. Unless she is in an armored truck in a full on convoy, it is dumb any way you want to try to paint it.
I mean like I said there's dialogue in the game saying they slipped past the WLF's lines, it wasn't supposed to be anything close to a hot zone. Take it or leave it, that's the cover up they give.

I won't discount that emotion can make characters take irrational actions, but what was the predominant emotion driving this idiotic decision? There was nothing I saw that was pushing them, such as Ellie's burning hot desire for vengeance.
You're gonna have to be specific, are you talking about them leaving Ellie alive? Because out of all the characters in the group, it's clear Owen is the most righteous, he wants to feel morally right to help his conscious, part of his arc in the game. While others want to tie up lose ends.

Abby also looks visibly shaken in that scene despite killing the person she was desperately looking for, so it doesn't look like she's up for another round of murder either.
 

vpance

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Mel is pregnant AND one of their best doctors, something that would be very protected and valued in such a world. They didn't expect an ambush? It is known that they are not secure at any time outside the immediate walls of the WLF base, an ambush isn't needed to understand this risk, and to let a pregnant women doctor out with only two others (riding exposed in the back of a truck, no less) is imbecilic and highly irresponsible at any time. Unless she is in an armored truck in a full on convoy, it is dumb any way you want to try to paint it.

I won't discount that emotion can make characters take irrational actions, but what was the predominant emotion driving this idiotic decision? There was nothing I saw that was pushing them, such as Ellie's burning hot desire for vengeance.

From what I can see they wanted to show how capable pregnant women can be and to make the impact of Ellie killing her even bigger...
 

Gods&Monsters

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The problem is that they have zero chemistry, but the game tries to sell you this romantic relationship and fails miserably.

Yeah and another thing that stood out was the focus on their armpits and smell. At the beginning of the game, Ellie smells her armpits and she says it smells good enough, then she has sex with Dina and there is this big focus on Dina's hairy armpits. Then during the kissing scene, Dina asks Ellie "How bad Do I smell?", Ellie smells her sweaty armpits and says "like hot garbage" and they kiss.

Is this a dirty lesbian thing? Disgusting and weird fetish from someone at ND.
 

Business

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By the way am I the only one a bit disconcerted by Troy Baker's performance as Joel. It felt off while I was playing but hasn't been until I re-watched parts of the first game that realized the voice is so different, and it's not because Joel is older or anything because besides the difference being a handful of years he has the new voice in the flashbacks as well.
 

FALCON_KICK

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Post arguing about the pregnant woman fighting in TLOU2, it is a SJW feminist agenda. Here are the 2 latest marvel comic books examples

 
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