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Opinion After Nearly Six Months in the Next Gen, Anyone Else Finding it Hard to Go Back to 30fps?

ManaByte

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Since Day 1 on the PS5 I've had Performance Mode set as the default. Platinumed Astro's, finished 100% Miles in 60fps, and finished Immortals: Fenyx Rising in Performance. Also played about 2/3rds of the Dirt 5 campaign in the 60 mode (the game becomes a grind, play Wreckfest instead). On the XSX side it's likewise been entirely Performance mode, and now with the FPS boost I'm revisiting things I skipped last gen like Prey (which is amazing). I'm not even going to bring up the PC where everything I run is at 120+ fps.

But earlier this month when Sony gave out the 2014 Ratchet and Clank I figured I'd load it up and finally finish/platinum it before the PS5 game comes out in June...and it felt like a slog at 30fps. After being spoiled by next-gen and almost everything (looking at you Watch_Dogs: Legion) having a 60fps option, it's just not easy going back to 30fps gaming.
 

Mr Hyde

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I've also had performance mode on default since I got the PS5 and it's been great with the fps boost. Everything runs so sooth and plays so good. Never had much issue with 30 before, but I switched to 30 in Demon's Souls and it felt like a slideshow. Same thing when I booted up Bloodborne. Never had much issue with the games (infamous) performance, put close to 800 hours into it on PS4 but goddamn was it choppy and slow. Not replaying that one until it gets a remaster.
 

AV

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Were 60fps games invented in 2020 or something?

I get that you now have the option to slap it on almost everything but presumably you've been playing 60fps games and then going back to some at 30fps for a long time

My answer is no, because of the above, I've been playing stuff at 30/60/higher for years, Miles Morales still felt great in quality mode the first time I played through the game
 
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Hunnybun

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Were 60fps games invented in 2020 or something?

I get that you now have the option to slap it on almost everything but presumably you've been playing 60fps games and then going back to some at 30fps for a long time

My answer is no, because of the above, I've been playing stuff at 30/60/higher for years, Miles Morales still felt great in quality mode the first time I played through the game

My answer to that is that previously 60fps games felt like a wonderful treat. Now they feel like normal and 30 feels awful. Also, previously 60fps games were mainly just certain genres like driving or shooters. It wasn't so easy to compare like with like.

You just get used to things.

I think this is the main hope I have for 60fps modes becoming standard: going back is just so awful that people won't put up with it.

I was always an advocate of moving to 60 as the standard, but even I'm surprised how bad 30 looks after getting used to 60. Miles Morales and Demon's Souls look like slideshows. And MM is supposedly an ultra smooth version of 30, too. Not to me. It looks like shit.
 
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AV

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I was always an advocate of moving to 60 as the standard, but even in surprised how bad 30 looks after getting used to 60. Miles Morales and Demon's Souls look like slideshows. And MM is supposedly an ultra smooth version of 30, too. Not to me. It looks like shit.

Game-by-game basis for me, I thought MM was absolutely fine at 30, whereas I switched Demon's Souls to 60 immediately. Probably because you actually need that information in DeS and MM is mash buttons to win and watch cool things happen.

In my mind we're still going to reach that inevitable point at which the hottest new games simply can't do a solid performance mode on this hardware, because the downgrade would make it look like total shit. That's probably the thing they use to promote the PS5 Pro after getting people on the 60fps hook early.

Then again, DLSS. Maybe not.
 
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All i know is, playing Crash Bandicoot 4 with the PS5 update at 60fps feels like an entirely new game to me compared to when i played it on PS4 Pro before. I could never play it the old way again. I suppose that some games will just be more noticeable than others.
 
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Please don't get used to it or just buy a PC. Within 24 months the games will never be stable 60fps without cutting the resolution in half.

No clue what people are thinking finding load times a bigger step than 30 to stable 60. Fuck me.
 
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Kuranghi

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No, not really, while I really appreciate the option to have both in games, I prefer to max out IQ before reducing it to increase fps. As long as the fps is consistently 30 or 60 (or 120 on my PC since I can do 1440p120hz there, though I rarely do) I don't mind really. Exception ofc, racing games, FPSes and other games where delay is accentuated because the game is asking for rapidly changing input.

I've been a gaming since the start of modern GPUs, on a 75hz monitor I never cared about getting the game to run at 60 or 75, as long as it was above 30 I was happy. The excitement for me came from turning the settings/res up and having better lighting or so much more clarity in the image, there was such a huge difference between 640x480 and 1280x960, and especially the hallowed 1600x1200. Like the difference between actually being able to read a sign in a game or identify an enemy at distance.

Nowadays obviously, for the most part, you aren't missing out on gameplay or can't read the world if its 1080p vs 2160p, but for me its shifted to the microdetail they push for in modern games, so being able to perceive minute texture detail when you are at a medium distance a wall or the texture of a baddie skin, like in the intro to Spiderman: MM, you miss out on all this detail on the first thug you see in the first battle. I played the game in Fidelity mode first and I was blown away by how good that first thug looked, such crazy micro detail, you can even see their eyelashes are extremely well rendered.

After beating it I started NG+ in Performance mode and I played for a couple of hours and got bored, there wasn't a meaningful difference in input lag or responsiveness to me and the loss of clarity in the way I've described above made the game feel less cool/exciting/next-gen/buzzword for me.

I'm hoping that RE8 keeps the native 4K mode even if the framerate drops really low in parts (I'm sure it will given the chandelier causes drops to 50s), because if they do put in a 60fps mode I can guarantee they will still bias towards image quality, ie if 1800p gives 60 during almost all gameplay but cutscenes are dropping to low 40s due to a massive delta in GPU usage compared to the rest of the game then won't drop to 1440p to sort that out. I would think that those that favour performance modes/playing at 60fps mostly care that the gameplay itself feels better and don't care if the cutscenes drop but the cutscenes are just as important to the gameplay for me, maybe more so in some cases, so seeing them without distraction is a massive boon for me. If a film had a slight stutter every 5 minutes I wouldn't watch it either, I don't care that I'm not in control of it.

I will probably play more games in 30fps going forwards tbh, since my GPU is now too old for 4K pixel pushing + high gfx settings and next-gen won't achieve native 4K without dropping to 30 in most cases, unless it has a simpler art style maybe. I played Assassin's Creed 1 at 1080p when it came out, I want to move on to higher resolutions as a base now and many devs seem to be embracing that with the amount of detail they put it thats lost when you aren't very near or at native 2160p.

There are a lot of multiplatform games that came out in the last two years, that on last-gen consoles people said were "average or "shit" graphics and when I compare 1080p and near/native 4K on my PC version of the game its like the difference between streaming versions and isos/remuxes of films.
 
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Hunnybun

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Game-by-game basis for me, I thought MM was absolutely fine at 30, whereas I switched Demon's Souls to 60 immediately. Probably because you actually need that information in DeS and MM is mash buttons to win and watch cool things happen.

In my mind we're still going to reach that inevitable point at which the hottest new games simply can't do a solid performance mode on this hardware, because the downgrade would make it look like total shit. That's probably the thing they use to promote the PS5 Pro after getting people on the 60fps hook early.

Then again, DLSS. Maybe not.

It really depends on the target resolution, doesn't it? If it continues at 4k or 1800p or even like 1620p, then you can use reconstruction etc to get a reasonable image while doubling frame rate.

If we drop down to 1440p as the base then yeah it's more difficult.

I think history tends to suggest that resolution targets won't be unduly eroded. PS4 started and ended at 1080p. There were very few big games, first or 3rd party, that didnt target 1080p. Visuals were improved within the bounds of what was possible at that resolution.

I think it was similar the previous generation. 720p or a bit lower.

Also, it is also clearly possible to have a generational leap at roughly 4k30/1440p60. Ratchet looks incredible at that performance profile. So did Demon's Souls, at least according to most people. So it's not like there's some obvious imperative to compromise.

Finally, these are exotic machines, and new techniques are being developed all the time (amazing stuff like Unreal 5, and reconstruction etc), as well as huge gains to be leveraged from the SSDs etc. There's years of work there to be making gains before resolution has to be cut. And also, if RT becomes commonplace, that's another feature that could relatively easily be culled to help facilitate 60fps.

So I think there's every reason to hope that these performance modes remain throughout the generation.
 
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nowhat

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Nearly six months, get the fuck out of here. Some of us who preordered at launch have barely received a functional console right now (including myself).
 

Stuart360

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Dont count your chickens yet. Once we get out of this cross gen phase, there will be a lot more 30fps games coming up. I mean i'm certain there will be a higher percentage of 60fps games this gen compared to last gen, but i wouldnt be at all surprised if we get to the end of the gen, and the percentage of 30fps games is over 50%, over the whole gen.
 

Xdrive05

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It mostly depends on the genre and especially the camera speed of the game. Also, controller versus mouse is a big part of this.

In mouse controlled shooters even 60fps feels bad. It's hard to go back to 60fps in Doom Eternal. Just feels clunky and less responsive, which it is compared to triple digit framerates. Same for CS:GO, etc.

But using a controller makes 30fps way more bearable since you're not whipping the camera around quickly.

Don't be fooled, 60fps *always* feels and plays better than 30fps, no matter the game or genre. It's just that in some games 30fps is kind of okay and you can get used to it. BotW is an amazing game at 30fps, but then play it for a while at 60fps on Cemu, then go back to the Switch version and it feels all wrong until you get settled back into it.
 
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Not really a problem as long as you don't play one, right before the other.

For example I was running through Demon Souls and was like hmm...lemme check out some bloodborne. Bad idea :messenger_tears_of_joy:

I don't wanna think of one of my fave games of all time in that way lol...But having a really souped up rig im used to playing most games over 60fps...sh most of em 100+ on this 3090 since out of my 1440p monitor and my 4K monitor I prefer the 1440p
 

SilentUser

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Absolutely. Also would add the SSD being standard is also another thing that I can't live without it anymore on a console.
 

JohnnyFootball

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Yep, I will not purchase a game that only supports 30 fps. I am 100% done with it.

Watch Dogs Legions is a game I am still hoping gets a patch
 
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01011001

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I always disliked 30fps but yeah, after most games going with 60fps or even 120fps on the new consoles it is REALLY jarring playing anything at 30fps again
 

Kagey K

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I don't have a problem going back to 30, but I have been prioritizing my backlog lately with 60 fps games getting jumped to the head of the line.

A bunch of games jumped to the top of the list this week. :messenger_grinning_smiling:
 
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NeoIkaruGAF

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You’ll have to go back to it anyway when the resolution needed to keep those 60fps inevitably drops below what is deemed “acceptable” around here :messenger_beaming:


(It’s gonna be interesting to see what solutions devs will adopt to not go that way)
 
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Mistershine.

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I've been gaming since the early 80s spectrum days, where 60 frames could take literally a minute, so getting 30 of them a second feels silky smooth to my old ass eyes. But then, I also don't use game mode or allm on my Q90T TV so what do I know??
 

Hunnybun

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don`t get too used to 60fps...I´d not be surprised if the consoles get back to 1440p/30fps sooner than later.
A true generational leap in the visuals will be hard to do at 60fps with that hardware, even at 1440p.

I guess a lot will depend on what the data say about the mode people are spending their time on.

I do genuinely find it hard to believe that casual players wouldn't prefer 60fps over staring at distant pixels or testing reflections for accuracy, but it's whether they realise what they're missing that's the problem.

It's funny cos 30fps is always presented as inevitable because of the casual gamers' hunger for visual bells and whistles, but you have to be a real fucking graphics nerd to care about accurate RT shadows or tiny, virtually imperceptible, differences in clarity.
 

Fbh

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Not really.
Not on next gen yet but after spending most of 2019 and 2020 playing 60fps games, I had no issue switching to 30fps in FF7 Remake or TLOU2.
Playing a 60fps game and then switching straight to a 30fps one can be a bit jarring....for like 10 minutes, then I just get used to it.

That's not to say I don't prefer 60fps. It does feel smoother and I prefer it over higher resolutions or slightly better graphics. But as long as a game has stable 30fps I just don't find it that bad.
 

AgentP

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I tried Destiny 2 on my PS4 at 30fps with the old FOV and it was damn near unplayable after the PS5 version.
 
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Paulxo87

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don't get too used to it lol you're just not seeing anything push the hardware yet that's why they are giving you the option. Yes even with games such as demons souls and ratchet and clank.
 

GymWolf

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Not okay with 30 fps since the time i stolen my first pc from my father.

Don't get too used dude, when fucking jimbo is gonna cut this crossgen bullshit and real ps5 games are gonna come out, 30 fps for big games is gonna be the norm once again.
 
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I've been gaming since the early 80s spectrum days, where 60 frames could take literally a minute, so getting 30 of them a second feels silky smooth to my old ass eyes. But then, I also don't use game mode or allm on my Q90T TV so what do I know??
Yeah, being an older gamer really provides perspective, I grew up gaming on a 386 so I can pretty much take any framerate you throw at me and not care. Honestly, framerate itself is a terrible metric for how a game plays anyway. I've played slide shows that control better than some 30fps games, hell even some 60fps games - it's all about the design of the game/engine.
 
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Elios83

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It depends.
Honestly on my 55" after resolution is at least 1440p the impact of further resolution increases is barely perceivable so I prefer the fluidity of 60fps. I've recently finished Nioh 2 in 60fps and now I'm playing Yakuza 7 in performance mode.
But it really depends on the game and what the developer is offering at 30fps.
I played Spiderman Miles Morales at 30fps because I thought that ray tracing added a lot to the immersion thanks to the many skyscrapers with reflective materials.
So I will decide on a per game basis.
 
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sncvsrtoip

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I wouldn't have big problem with backing to 30 fps if I've seen same graphic jump as I saw in ps3->ps4 era.
 

Hunnybun

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I find it weird how many people claim not to see much difference between 30 and 60.

Does anyone know if there's some science behind it? Are some people just more sensitive to it or something?

It really looks transformative to me. Perhaps not quite a 'generational' difference, but a really significant improvement. Waaaay more significant than, say, the resolution increase we got from PS4 Pro.
 
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