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4Chan Rumor: The Last of Us Part 2 is rumored to be a story of revenge...

Paracelsus

Member
This is exactly the entitlement I mean. There are not Activists in Hollywood, there are People creating stories they want to create. If I write a book it's my book, there's no real responsibility to the reader or the fanbase. It's not your game, you didn't create it, you didn't spend hours planing it, writing it, coding it. It's not peoples responsibility to work blood, sweat and tears to create something that conforms to your opinion and pleases you. Paint your own Painting. It's their creation and you can like and celebrate it or not.

This is not about being conservative, but this notion that female, lesbian, gay, jewish, whatever creatives better create content that conforms to your world view is just absurd. why would anyone.

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Or it's more like they are basically shoving people that fit their narrative in places where they can create more of it?
We've already seen what happened to journalism, why would gaming be different?

What is more likely given the average male: that "gaming has matured and this is the result" or that you put simps like N*than Grays*n to make these decisions?
 
S

SpongebobSquaredance

Unconfirmed Member
Ever hear of the Pulse night club shooting? 49 dead just for being gay. And considering how small their numbers are, it's probably disproportionate to the average from other groups.
well, the extremist right folk does just as much if not more crimes of this kind. if you want to point fingers, then do it with everyone.
 
Interesting thread.

My personal take is pretty mild. I’m not bothered. Would it have been better if it was just another standard bad guy camp (Just Walking Dead style retreads?) Or just the same people from first game coming back for revenge?

It doesn’t seem cliche to me, I don’t remember many games (that I’ve played anyway) where I take on homophobic religious zealots. These kind of people may be the minority in real life but they do exist. This doesn’t seem like a stretch.

I think it’s fine. That’s just me
 
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Geki-D

Banned
dumb shit
Cool one example that proves nothing bro? So for one shooting you want them to make the 1.1% of Muslims in the US the enemy... In a game where like 80% of the US population is gone? ...I don't get it, are people actually this stupid or are they just doing a bit? As I've already said, if nearly every character in this game was black, you'd all instantly point out that it's not respecting the US' ethnic demographics.
You also have this little known issue:

Would you mind not trying to insert your anti Muslim politics into gaming?
 
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Interesting thread.

My personal take is pretty mild. I’m not bothered. Would it have been better if it was just another standard bad guy camp (Just Walking Dead style retreads?) Or just the same people from first game coming back for revenge?

It doesn’t seem cliche to me, I don’t remember many games (that I’ve played anyway) where I take on homophobic regions zealots. These kind of people may be the minority in real life but they do exist. This doesn’t seem like a stretch.

I think it’s fine. That’s just me
But isn’t that basically what this is? A “in order to stop the apocalypse we need to cleanse the world of sin” group. Sounds like it but maybe it’s deeper than that, assuming this is even true.

Gaming and entertainment in general already had a shit ton of “they killed my lover” revenge tales. As well as simplistic one dimensional bad guys/groups.

When they gave us that first trailer and people theorized Joel was dead and she was out for revenge, people thought that was meh. Changing who she’s out for revenge isn’t gonna change that meh much.
 

Cybrwzrd

Banned
Would you mind not trying to insert your anti Muslim politics into gaming?

I'm an athiest, but would you mind not trying to insert your anti-Christian politics into gaming?

Might I add, that while I think people are far too fascinated over what others do in bed, I don't see much difference between a homophobe and a Chrstianophobe. Very few people overcome the brainwashing they have as a young child over religion, so their religion is just as tied to their identity as their sexuality is.
 

INC

Member
Interesting thread.

My personal take is pretty mild. I’m not bothered. Would it have been better if it was just another standard bad guy camp (Just Walking Dead style retreads?) Or just the same people from first game coming back for revenge?

It doesn’t seem cliche to me, I don’t remember many games (that I’ve played anyway) where I take on homophobic regions zealots. These kind of people may be the minority in real life but they do exist. This doesn’t seem like a stretch.

I think it’s fine. That’s just me

Probably because you can see it for what it is, a revenge story, the narrative vehicle being religious nutters, using their twisted beliefs to justify their actions, the consequences are ellie shanking them to death, and Im fine with that, dont matter the religion, just so happens that it's based in USA, USA being 70%+ Christian, and lets be honest, Christians have quite a long history of persecutions against anything that wasnt in the good book lol
So the narrative makes perfect sense in the setting that's in the game.

To me anyway, but shit like this doesnt trigger me to the point I'm asking why isnt it muslims I'm killing lol
 
Im thinking some of the smart people at Sony realized what a PR disaster this could be and told them to tone it down, hence the "indefinite" delay. Avengers and Ghost have yet to be delayed.
I think top bosses in Tokyo gave them free reins to do whatever the fuck they want long time ago. After all, they are creating games for Western markets, not Japan so why not let them decide what’s best for it. I mean, that’s how they think. I think Druckmann, specifically, is the problem. I don’t see any of this shit with SSM or Insomniac or anyone else.

So even if delay had to do with something else rather than just virus, I don’t think that decision came from Tokyo.
 

Geki-D

Banned
I'm an athiest, but would you mind not trying to insert your anti-Christian politics into gaming?
Would I mind? I've done no such thing. The game is about what it's about and the devs have a right to do that. Besides pointing out why it's a valid choice and why suddenly bringing up Muslims is nothing but off-topic whataboutism, can you quote me being "anti-Christian"? In fact you've said something way more anti-Christian than me right there by saying they brainwash their kids. Whoops. Might wanna not insert your anti-Christian politics into gaming?

I'm sure you thought you had a nice gotcha there, but you clearly have no idea what's going on in this thread.
 
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Fbh

Member
A lesbian protagonist trekking around in an ultra violent post apocalyptic world? What other direction did you think this franchise was going?

There's a hundred ways you can frame the plot for a game about " a main character trekking around in an ultra violent post apocalyptic world".
Making it a revenge story against a Christian cult of LGBT hating white men is one of the crappier ones I can think about and feels like a massive step back compared to the first one. So I hope this is just the usual 4chan trolling and nothing more.
 
But isn’t that basically what this is? A “in order to stop the apocalypse we need to cleanse the world of sin” group. Sounds like it but maybe it’s deeper than that, assuming this is even true.

Gaming and entertainment in general already had a shit ton of “they killed my lover” revenge tales. As well as simplistic one dimensional bad guys/groups.

When they gave us that first trailer and people theorized Joel was dead and she was out for revenge, people thought that was meh. Changing who she’s out for revenge isn’t gonna change that meh much.


We can abstract and get, say, 12 templates from which every single story out there can be derived. What matters is the execution.

This doesn't look like a cliché to me:

 

joe_zazen

Member
Lets be honest though, this is less about anti-Christianity than "progressive" cowardice. The range of acceptable villains kinda shrinks when a primary concern is not being seen as guilty of punching down, or worse yet any sort of "-ism".
It is a real problem in American mythology today, the lack of a real enemy. So much if our art, culture, and self identity revolves around fighting the baddie. The indoctrination starts as soon as we are able to consume stories.

What is left when there are no irl baddies? I think we are seeing the answer: you fight yourself. Hence the internal movement that seeks to destroy Western Civ and cast it as the villain. Has James Bond started trying to overthrow patriarchal capitalism and global warmers yet? Or is he still fighting those high tech super powerful drug dealers/terrorists?

There are not Activists in Hollywood, there are People creating stories they want to create. If I write a book it's my book, there's no real responsibility to the reader or the fanbase. It's not your game, you didn't create it, you didn't spend hours planing it, writing it, coding it. It's not peoples responsibility to work blood, sweat and tears to create something that conforms to your opinion and pleases you. Paint your own Painting. It's their creation and you can like and celebrate it or not.

We are talking about a product that requires 10’s of millions in investment, not a self published novel no one is going to read. Irl, creatives are hired to make money for the owners, and there are powerful systems in place to help ensure that happens. Druckman is not some auteur with a blank check. This game‘s story will have been focus tested and modified a million times to please the audience. There is no way they are going to alienate what they see as their core audience.

If the Last of Us 2 has this story, it's obviously not about loving, reasonable christians. It's about those fundamentalist Christians, that are abusing and misusing it's teaching to make people feel miserable, it's about those us churches that supported throwing your kid out on the street and stop talking to them if they're gay and those groups that financially helped and push Uganda to ratify the death penalty for homosexuals.

So, in your world these are the villains? they are to blame for Uganda’s laws and homeless teens?

They mistake fiction for real-life. If having a fictional religious character be the bad guy were an indictment of the real-world religious group, so would having an Asian guy be the bad guy be an indictment on real-life Asians or having an assexual girl be the baddie an indictment on assexual people.

Our collective view of real life is based on our collective stories. So when you have a mass market story that uses an identifiable irl group as the villain, and a story that justifies 20 hours of interactive murdering of said group...you don't see why some may feel attacked?

Personally, I don’t like using identifiable irl groups as guilt free murder victims in stories because narratives can lead to actual violence. But our stories demand guilt free villains we can physically attack and/or kill. And if we use irl groups, we end up dehumanizing whatever the acceptable villain/group du jour is.

As for claims that the plot makes no sense in the context of a zombie apocalypse, on the contrary. It's because the event is so traumatic, that Ellie is allegedly willing to risk her life to take revenge. It is precisely because their beliefs are the most important thing in their lives that this sect are willing to risk their lives to act them out irrationally.

agree. In a chaotic and deadly world where people have no security, religion is a powerful survival force. Is it any wonder extremistism blossoms in place that suffer from conflict? Want to stop terrrorism? Start by stopping bombing/droning communities and making people insecure and frightened.
 

joe_zazen

Member
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Or it's more like they are basically shoving people that fit their narrative in places where they can create more of it?
We've already seen what happened to journalism, why would gaming be different?

What is more likely given the average male: that "gaming has matured and this is the result" or that you put simps like N*than Grays*n to make these decisions?

The ‘Everything is Political’ cult is mental health poison. Politics is about power and control and injecting that into everything makes life onerous beyond belief. To be acceptable, every action, decision, word spoken, and thought has to be ideologicaly OK. And people think hassidic jews have it hard.
 

Cybrwzrd

Banned
Would I mind? I've done no such thing. The game is about what it's about and the devs have a right to do that. Besides pointing out why it's a valid choice and why suddenly bringing up Muslims is nothing but off-topic whataboutism, can you quote me being "anti-Christian"? In fact you've said something way more anti-Christian than me right there by saying they brainwash their kids. Whoops. Might wanna not insert your anti-Christian politics into gaming?

I'm sure you thought you had a nice gotcha there, but you clearly have no idea what's going on in this thread.

You bothered to bring up white evangelicals (while ignoring white protestants and Catholics who tend to be far more accepting than any other group) as an example as a foil to the other guys Muslim statement as a defense for the devs making that choice.

What I said is anti-religion in general, and I didn't say the devs need to put it in the game.

Its a fucking stupid debate, but it isn't likely that some evil white evangelical group would be murdering the gays during the apocalypse. It is just a lazy fuckin story that turns the antagonists into one dimensional bowling pins.
 
Lol... I don't doubt this is the plot, but I hope its framed much better in the actual game. I'll prob still play it because it looks interesting and cult stories are generally pretty cool, but yikes. This is a sharp turn from what the first game's story was about.
 

Geki-D

Banned
You bothered to bring up white evangelicals (while ignoring white protestants and Catholics who tend to be far more accepting than any other group) as an example as a foil to the other guys Muslim statement as a defense for the devs making that choice.
You talking about the Muslim stat I used? I used that mainly for the Muslim part though yeah, the game is set in the US where the largest part of the Christian faith in the US are evangelicals (though we don't even know what denomination these cultists are anyway). Though the stat was merely icing on the cake, the crux being that a game making a group of the 1.1% of the US population in a game where the US population has been decimated is stupid.
 
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Cybrwzrd

Banned
You talking about the Muslim stat I used? I used that mainly for the Muslim part though yeah, the game is set in the US where the largest part of the Christian faith in the US are evangelicals (though we don't even know what denomination these cultists are anyway). Though the stat was merely icing on the cake, the crux being that a game making a group of the 1.1% of the US population in a game where the US population has been decimated is stupid.

The game takes place in Seattle right?

I don't see a single evangelical group above 3%. Most are 1%. Evangelicals are not a single religion, and I don't know if I could even lump Evangelical Lutherans with Evangelical Baptists, for example. They are pretty different.

Hell, the unreligious are 1/3 of the total population in Seattle. I'd be more concerned about a gang who goes around attacking people for their beliefs in this scenereo. That seems more relistic.
 

Geki-D

Banned
The game takes place in Seattle right?

I don't see a single evangelical group above 3%. Most are 1%. Evangelicals are not a single religion, and I don't know if I could even lump Evangelical Lutherans with Evangelical Baptists, for example. They are pretty different.

Hell, the unreligious are 1/3 of the total population in Seattle. I'd be more concerned about a gang who goes around attacking people for their beliefs in this scenereo. That seems more relistic.
I literally said that we don't even know what denomination these cultists are anyway. They're a cult that has risen brought on by the apocalypse in country with a Christian foundation, in Seattle 52% of Christian, less than 1% are Muslim so your point is still moot and if a cult was to rise it would no doubt be founded, like most of the population, off Christianity. And that's assuming the cult is even in Washington, and are native from there.

I don't even get why you'd try to argue this point, it's as stupid as saying the cult should be Muslim.
 

ksdixon

Member
The gameplay looks solid. But if hope this story doesn't turn out to be true (quotes from ND and cast suggest otherwise).

Did a standalone Factions Multiplayer game for PS5 get 100% confirmed? Its looking very likely that I play the story once, have it retroactively ruin TLOU1's story of Joel's journey, and then focus on the MP only.
 

ksdixon

Member
You can't take a beloved property and then shove it with woke ideology and expect the fans to be happy about it, even worse to turn around and call them bigots and whatnot....

That's downright depressing. I'm getting Mortal Kombat PTSD over here. The devs can and will do those things, if so inclined.
 
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Cybrwzrd

Banned
I literally said that we don't even know what denomination these cultists are anyway. They're a cult that has risen brought on by the apocalypse in country with a Christian foundation, in Seattle 52% of Christian, less than 1% are Muslim so your point is still moot and if a cult was to rise it would no doubt be founded, like most of the population, off Christianity. And that's assuming the cult is even in Washington, and are native from there.

I don't even get why you'd try to argue this point, it's as stupid as saying the cult should be Muslim.

Exactly, I am arguing that the idea of a homophobic cult is fucking stupid nonsense, whether they are Christian or Muslim.
 

Dr.Morris79

Gold Member
So how many of you anti-woke warriors will be there day one to pick this up?
Well i'll be honest and say that if this is how the story will be then it's not really an interest with me personally.

I'm more of an old school gamer, I like my end of the world guff and shooty sci fi bangs, I have enough 'feels' in the real world without games trying to make me emotional for some cause

Just give me the two from the first game on a quest for a cure or some shit. That'll do me.
 

Jon Neu

Banned
This is exactly the entitlement I mean. There are not Activists in Hollywood, there are People creating stories they want to create. If I write a book it's my book, there's no real responsibility to the reader or the fanbase. It's not your game, you didn't create it, you didn't spend hours planing it, writing it, coding it. It's not peoples responsibility to work blood, sweat and tears to create something that conforms to your opinion and pleases you. Paint your own Painting. It's their creation and you can like and celebrate it or not.

This is not about being conservative, but this notion that female, lesbian, gay, jewish, whatever creatives better create content that conforms to your world view is just absurd. why would anyone.

There are a lot of activists in Hollywood and if you talk about entitlement, they are the absolute best example of it.

Again, they can create whatever story they want to create. And we are also free to critizice it and point out the sheer hipocrisy and hate behind the political activism and ideology that drives their stories.

And I don't know why that triggers you so much.

I was joking, I do know.
 

tassletine

Member
Sounds like an exploitation movie. it could work If it’s done right.
Most revenge stories end with — you’re as bad as the people you wanted to get even against.
 

docbot

Banned
There are a lot of activists in Hollywood and if you talk about entitlement, they are the absolute best example of it.

Again, they can create whatever story they want to create. And we are also free to critizice it and point out the sheer hipocrisy and hate behind the political activism and ideology that drives their stories.

And I don't know why that triggers you so much.

I was joking, I do know.
to each his own, let's end it here, there's really no point of trying to talk something out with someone who's constantly falling back to "why are you so triggered" bait. Happy Easter Monday.
 

wolywood

Member
I just find it really hard to believe in a religious group that travels the dangerous lands, risking infection, all just to root out gays. That just feels like it wouldn't happen. We'll see, though.

This literally did happen during the "Black Death" (14th century plague), except it was Jews who were being rooted out by the religious fanatics. So there's at least some historical context.
 
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A.Romero

Member
What would be the actual difference between the Fireflies and another terrorist group with the addition of religion?

Does it matter if the motive for the main character is to avenge a loved one? I mean, we had like 6 God of War games based on that premise.

I'll play it anyway because it's the kind of game that comes out once every 5 - 7 years and it has great production values but I don't really think it will make much of a difference other than pushing some people's buttons.
 

Jon Neu

Banned
to each his own, let's end it here, there's really no point of trying to talk something out with someone who's constantly falling back to "why are you so triggered" bait. Happy Easter Monday.

You're the one coming here talking about entitlement, dude.
 

Grinchy

Banned
This literally did happen during the "Black Death" (14th century plague), except it was Jews who were being rooted out by the religious fanatics. So there's at least some historical context.
The 14th century plague didn't turn people into clickers and bloaters :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Interesting thread.

My personal take is pretty mild. I’m not bothered. Would it have been better if it was just another standard bad guy camp (Just Walking Dead style retreads?) Or just the same people from first game coming back for revenge?

It doesn’t seem cliche to me, I don’t remember many games (that I’ve played anyway) where I take on homophobic religious zealots. These kind of people may be the minority in real life but they do exist. This doesn’t seem like a stretch.

I think it’s fine. That’s just me

You and I both know for a fact that they exist, so why does it matter if they are the minority or not? The mafia depicts the minority of Italians, yet we have 100s of movies and TV shows about them.
 

Jigsaah

Gold Member
I figured it out. Ellie is immune to the virus right...so maybe they hating on her because she won't have kids...being all lesbian n shit right?

Therefore, she won't pass on her immunity to the next generation leaving no hope for the rest of humanity.

Thank me whenever you want to folks, I'm here all week.
 

ExpandKong

Banned
Cool one example that proves nothing bro? So for one shooting you want them to make the 1.1% of Muslims in the US the enemy... In a game where like 80% of the US population is gone? ...I don't get it, are people actually this stupid or are they just doing a bit? As I've already said, if nearly every character in this game was black, you'd all instantly point out that it's not respecting the US' ethnic demographics.
You also have this little known issue:

Would you mind not trying to insert your anti Muslim politics into gaming?

ree
 
I figured it out. Ellie is immune to the virus right...so maybe they hating on her because she won't have kids...being all lesbian n shit right?

Therefore, she won't pass on her immunity to the next generation leaving no hope for the rest of humanity.

Thank me whenever you want to folks, I'm here all week.

She's not the only immune though
 

Blond

Banned
I figured it out. Ellie is immune to the virus right...so maybe they hating on her because she won't have kids...being all lesbian n shit right?

Therefore, she won't pass on her immunity to the next generation leaving no hope for the rest of humanity.

Thank me whenever you want to folks, I'm here all week.

You know, this would require effort to pull of correctly because you'd need to remain as ambigous as possible and that just ain't in Neil Duckmans ability.

Secondly, I can't believe were this mad over a 4chan rumor when these things dies out over a couple of pages
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
Not plausible at all I guess

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It's a real stretch to see how this story line could happen...

A handful of fringe Westboro types, mostly from the same family, with nothing better to do with their time is not the same as an organized cult/militia during an apocalyptic survival scenario. No one’s likely to care about some lesbians unless they’re in your own tribe and there’s a mandate for procreation, or they’re trying to get everyone to read Simone de Beauvoir and add non-binary outhouse signage.

Bigots will be preoccupied with practical considerations in survival scenarios.
 
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