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2011 Game of the Year Media Picks Thread

Cheech

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Aug 14, 2007
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Skyrim, when all is said and done, will end up the game of the generation for the majority of people.

All the crying makes no sense. You take the game as a whole, it's an achievement that won't be surpassed until console hardware improves to the point where it can handle more.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Feb 4, 2009
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No, I get why people love it.

I even hear it from people who don't play video games how they can go anywhere and everywhere. I get it, its all about the scope of the game, how ambitious it is.

But at what cost?

Bugs?
Shitty combat mechanics?
Janky animations?

no, I simply can't praise that

Sometimes people value fun over technical proficiency. It's why people are able to ignore the issues with Dark Souls, Skyrim, The Witcher 2 and, well, any open-world RPG.

But Riposte said it best. We've seen all this before. Skyrim will win GOTY here, and it will continue to be heavily criticized from certain segments.

Basically, it's just Mass Effect 2 all over again.
 

NBtoaster

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Aug 3, 2010
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What about the ancient combat mechanics? the janky animations? what are their excuses for that garbage?

Animations are fine. There are somewhat awkward transitions but the quality of the animations themselves is good to great.

The combat is fine too. It's designed to be simple and easy to get into (not an inherent negative). There are clear cut mechanics around sword, bow, sneak and magic combat. It's hardly ancient either, it's very unlike Oblivion's.

It doesn't come close to "garbage".
 
Feb 16, 2011
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I honestly don't think Skyrim would deserve GOTY even if bugs weren't an issue. The game is ambitious but so much of the minute to minute gameplay is dull and repetitive. I can think of at least 10 games from this year that have hooked me much more powerfully.

When people tell me about how amazing Skyrim is I start wondering if we play games for the same reasons. To me gameplay is and always will be the most important consideration when it comes to GOTY, and I'm honestly not sure how anyone can claim that the gameplay of Skyrim is the best of any game we've seen this year.

Don't get me wrong, I can appreciate other aspects of a game besides the core gameplay, but when that element is somewhat average it brings the entire experience down a few notches, in my book. Skyrim deserves to be praised for many different reasons, but I don't think the actual gameplay is one of them.
 

linko9

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Apr 28, 2011
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Yeah, I don't really get the Skyrim praise either, since I was under the impression that videogame journalists

a) Didn't have time to play long games
b) Are tired of fantasy settings
c) Have all of a sudden decided that Bethesda games are bad

That's just the impression I got from listening to podcasts and such leading up to the game's release, so I was surprised to see it get so much praise. Haven't played it personally, so I can't really say anything other than it doesn't look like my kind of game. Not to be a douche, but after Dark Souls, I just don't think I could take the combat seriously. Also I didn't much like fallout 3. Anyway, despite all the praise, I'm still surprised to see it racking up so many GOTYs. I expected more for Portal 2 and Batman.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
Skyrim, when all is said and done, will end up the game of the generation for the majority of people.

All the crying makes no sense. You take the game as a whole, it's an achievement that won't be surpassed until console hardware improves to the point where it can handle more.

As I've said, I don't think Skyrim's limitations are inherently technical. They're just part of a framework that is fundamentally dated that the developer/publisher can't justify fixing. The only way they'll ever see it as being worth fixing is if their community deemed it not good enough and didn't buy it. As this doesn't seem to be the case, it looks like the only hope for a better Bethesda game will be, as you suggested, new hardware, but again, I suspect that isn't the real bottleneck in this scenario.
 

Riposte

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Skyrim, when all is said and done, will end up the game of the generation for the majority of people.

All the crying makes no sense. You take the game as a whole, it's an achievement that won't be surpassed until console hardware improves to the point where it can handle more.

"Take a game as a whole" could be code for "Pretend the flaws with basic game design are not there and look at the size of the world map".

Animations are fine. There wre somewhat awkward transitions but the quality of the animations themselves is good to great.

The combat is fine too. It's designed to be simple and easy to get into (not an inherent negative). There are clear cut mechanics around sword, bow, sneak and magic combat. It's hardly ancient either, it's very unlike Oblivion's.

It doesn't come close to "garbage".

Combat isn't garbage when the situation is right(dungeons only)... you are at the right level(very low level)... you haven't become overpowered... you are using magic or ranged attacks, not dead simple melee... etc etc. 99% of the time it is pretty terrible. Oblivion is sub-garbage if that is the comparison we want to make.
 

DaBuddaDa

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"Take a game as a whole" could be code for "Pretend the flaws with basic game design are not there and look at the size of the world map".

It means: "How much fun did I have playing the game despite 'problems' that some people might have with the mechanics?" and clearly the common answer is: "Despite the problems I had a ridiculous amount of fun." Stop pretending that GOTY voting is in any way an objective critique of the games released in a year; it's not.
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
Jul 30, 2009
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That's what I mean. It's another head of the beast. They don't have the money and, therefore, the time to make a product that will take exponentially longer to build and make the same amount of money Skyrim will. It makes no financial sense.

Well, don't have the money or don't see the sense in parting with more money.
 

Cheech

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When people tell me about how amazing Skyrim is I start wondering if we play games for the same reasons.

This is completely true. I look at past GOTY winners like MGS4 and Uncharted 2 and wonder what in the hell people saw in those games. I played them both, and had to force myself to finish them.

Skyrim, OTOH? I'm 75 hours in, and not even close to being finished with it. Like Oblivion, I suspect I will clock about 200 hours when all is said and done.

As I've said, I don't think Skyrim's limitations are inherently technical. They're just part of a framework that is fundamentally dated that the developer/publisher can't justify fixing. The only way they'll ever see it as being worth fixing is if their community deemed it not good enough and didn't buy it. As this doesn't seem to be the case, it looks like the only hope for a better Bethesda game will be, as you suggested, new hardware, but again, I suspect that isn't the real bottleneck in this scenario.

I have a really strong suspicion that they bought id not for shitty Rage or id tech 5.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
Well, don't have the money or don't see the sense in parting with more money.

Heh, yeah, exactly. It's not "we can't afford this" so much as it is



why make a billion when you could make
a TRILLION dollars
 
Feb 16, 2011
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This is completely true. I look at past GOTY winners like MGS4 and Uncharted 2 and wonder what in the hell people saw in those games. I played them both, and had to force myself to finish them.

Skyrim, OTOH? I'm 75 hours in, and not even close to being finished with it. Like Oblivion, I suspect I will clock about 200 hours when all is said and done.
I'll chalk it up to different tastes I suppose, because I enjoyed MGS4 (despite its insanity) and Uncharted 2 quite a bit.

I can understand why people are so crazy about Skyrim but I have a hard time forcing myself to spend dozens (or even hundreds) of hours in a world where I don't really love the basic gameplay systems.
 

Riposte

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It means: "How much fun did I have playing the game despite 'problems' that some people might have with the mechanics?" and clearly the common answer is: "Despite the problems I had a ridiculous amount of fun." Stop pretending that GOTY voting is in any way an objective critique of the games released in a year; it's not.

There is no such thing as an objective critique, I'll just ignore that sentence.

It shouldn't be a surprise "some people" have trouble overlooking problems on the most basic and fundamental mechanics of the game(and for skyrim, this is going to be combat system, not that it is alone is flawed). One might ask "What good is a giant world map if a game about hitting things fails at making it deep or exciting?". But there are those who can overlook it, but I have yet to encounter an individual with the introspection to explain why very well. No one ever thinks to wonder how the game's map and questlog might be as manipulative as any MMO. But enough of that, I don't feel like making this thread more about Skyrim than it needs to be. I am sure many others would take my place.

Point is, it should be visible to everyone why there are those who do not want to overlook the flaws. To say to look at the whole picture is humorous, because the combat is the front and center and hogs more room than the giant world map.
 

NBtoaster

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"Combat isn't garbage when the situation is right(dungeons only)... you are at the right level(very low level)... you haven't become overpowered... you are using magic or ranged attacks, not dead simple melee... etc etc. 99% of the time it is pretty terrible. Oblivion is sub-garbage if that is the comparison we want to make.

Nothing wrong with melee IMO, and I don't see what about the combat outside of dungeons is so bad. And you can always be overleveled or underleveled for areas, like other RPGs.
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
Jul 30, 2009
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Heh, yeah, exactly. It's not "we can't afford this" so much as it is



why make a billion when you could make
a TRILLION dollars

 

Riposte

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Nothing wrong with melee IMO, and I don't see what about the combat outside of dungeons is so bad. And you can always be overleveled or underleveled for areas, like other RPGs.

Get a ranged attack. Attack enemy... walk backwards... attack enemy... walk backwards... use shout if want to spice things up. You win. (Can be done in some dungeons, but not in all. Not to mention there is some legit level design in Dungeons. Never the case outside.)

As for melee attack, there is nothing to it, which means there is something wrong with it. It is quite brainless, it fails to compete with games of Skyrim's caliber.

EDIT: Dragon fights were real cool(especially how they could appear anywhere). However they do get repetitive and be careful not to realize they are poor recreations of fighting Rathian/Rathalos in Monster Hunter with an Elder Scrolls combat system. (*shudder*, right?)


Last post directly criticizing Skyrim in this thread.

EDIT:

Explain why I can put 80 hours into the game (much of that time spent in combat), enjoy the combat (which doesn't equate to "the combat is amazing" or anything like that) for that time, still have a strong desire to play the game and not have any regrets about the time I've spent playing it to boot?

Actually, I'd like you to explain it. Hence "introspection". I know why I invested a lot of time in Skyrim. It is set up to be addictive and has a lot momentum while grinding out the map/quest log. It also has nice aesthetics(including the feeling of isolation). All and all it was a shallow experience(the kind that is hard to realize if you let it suck you in too much, like MMOs).
 

mujun

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Dec 5, 2008
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There is no such thing as an objective critique, I'll just ignore that sentence.

It shouldn't be a surprise "some people" have trouble overlooking problems on the most basic and fundamental mechanics of the game(and for skyrim, this is going to be combat system, not that it is alone is flawed). One might ask "What good is a giant world map if a game about hitting things fails at making it deep or exciting?". But there are those who can overlook it, but I have yet to encounter an individual with the introspection to explain why very well. No one ever thinks to wonder how the game's map and questlog might be as manipulative as any MMO. But enough of that, I don't feel like making this thread more about Skyrim than it needs to be. I am sure many others would take my place.

Point is, it should be visible to everyone why there are those who do not want to overlook the flaws. To say to look at the whole picture is humorous, because the combat is the front and center and hogs more room than the giant world map.

Explain why I can put 80 hours into the game (much of that time spent in combat), enjoy the combat (which doesn't equate to "the combat is amazing" or anything like that) for that time, still have a strong desire to play the game and not have any regrets about the time I've spent playing it to boot?
 
Feb 16, 2011
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Nothing wrong with melee IMO, and I don't see what about the combat outside of dungeons is so bad. And you can always be overleveled or underleveled for areas, like other RPGs.
I like my combat systems to be heavily focused around player dexterity (think a fast paced action game or a game like Dark Souls) and/or strategy (think of an SRPG like Fire Emblem). The combat in Skyrim is seriously lacking in both of those areas, and it often feels like winning or losing a battle is more a product of the numbers behind the scenes than the actual skill level of the player. Of course there is some amount of dexterity and strategy involved but even that tends to feel awkward (back and forth, back and forth) or overly gamey (pause the game for eternity to drink a potion instantly).

For reference, I don't like combat in MMO's either.
 
Aug 8, 2008
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There is no such thing as an objective critique, I'll just ignore that sentence.

It shouldn't be a surprise "some people" have trouble overlooking problems on the most basic and fundamental mechanics of the game(and for skyrim, this is going to be combat system, not that it is alone is flawed). One might ask "What good is a giant world map if a game about hitting things fails at making it deep or exciting?". But there are those who can overlook it, but I have yet to encounter an individual with the introspection to explain why very well. No one ever thinks to wonder how the game's map and questlog might be as manipulative as any MMO. But enough of that, I don't feel like making this thread more about Skyrim than it needs to be. I am sure many others would take my place.

Point is, it should be visible to everyone why there are those who do not want to overlook the flaws. To say to look at the whole picture is humorous, because the combat is the front and center and hogs more room than the giant world map.
The problem I see with this line of thought is that Skyrim is much more than a game about "hitting things." Yes, it certainly includes hitting things, but I feel like it's much more a game about adventure, wherein you will at times probably need to hit things. You can run through entire dungeons as a berserker dual-wielding axes, or you can take your time sneaking through and backstabbing enemies; you can shield bash opponents and shout them to death, or you can conjure up a couple Dremora Lords to do all the hitting for you.

Even with Skyrim, the Elder Scrolls hasn't quite reached the point where non-combat feels as fleshed out and rewarding as combat; but that doesn't mean the game should be reduced to "hitting things." The combat is situated within a context of exploring an enormous, beautiful open world. Follow foxes, if you want; mine some ore on snow-swept mountainsides; ride your horse to the top of the Throat of the World; collect every word of every shout; or get married, bring your bride home, remove your weapons, punch her to death, and deny your crimes to the guards. If you want it to be a game about hitting things, it can be, but it can also be so much more than that.

Is every aspect of Skyrim better than what other games have achieved in those aspects of gameplay? Certainly not. Is the game free of annoying (sometimes very annoying) bugs? Absolutely not. And yet, despite this, despite playing it on the PS3 and suffering all of the issues others have reported, I consider this my unequivocal game of the year.
 

IrishNinja

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May 12, 2009
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Explain why I can put 80 hours into the game (much of that time spent in combat), enjoy the combat (which doesn't equate to "the combat is amazing" or anything like that) for that time, still have a strong desire to play the game and not have any regrets about the time I've spent playing it to boot?

how would someone explain that? i put hundreds of hours into Animal Crossing, asking someone else to explain that is weird.
 

Derrick01

Banned
May 9, 2011
34,660
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woah I just checked the OP and noticed someone actually picked ocarina of time. I find that a little disrespectful to the games that came out this year if you're picking a 1998 game to be 2011 goty.

Everything else seems normal to me. I figured that Skyrim and Batman would go head to head with the media picks, they were the 2 highest rated games this year after all.
 

Ken Masters

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Jun 24, 2007
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Skyrim, when all is said and done, will end up the game of the generation for the majority of people.

All the crying makes no sense. You take the game as a whole, it's an achievement that won't be surpassed until console hardware improves to the point where it can handle more.

so let's ignore the fact that the game doesn't do anything particularly well and was released in beta form, and let's just focus at how big the map is and how many quests there are


if this is our generation of gaming then I'm ashamed
 

Durante

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Oct 1, 2006
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As I feared, the amount of whining about Skyrim is only rivaled by the amount of miscellaneous quests in the game.

"Take a game as a whole" could be code for "Pretend the flaws with basic game design are not there and look at the size of the world map".
No. In simple terms, it is "code" for "how much I enjoyed myself (for how long of a time) playing the game". Not a bad metric for an entertainment product.

Combat isn't garbage when the situation is right(dungeons only)... you are at the right level(very low level)... you haven't become overpowered... you are using magic or ranged attacks, not dead simple melee... etc etc. 99% of the time it is pretty terrible. Oblivion is sub-garbage if that is the comparison we want to make.
I use magic 100% of the time and I still enjoy the combat a lot. In fact, I consider the gameplay as a spellcaster to be in many ways superior to Demon's Souls.

Is every aspect of Skyrim better than what other games have achieved in those aspects of gameplay? Certainly not. Is the game free of annoying (sometimes very annoying) bugs? Absolutely not. And yet, despite this, despite playing it on the PS3 and suffering all of the issues others have reported, I consider this my unequivocal game of the year.
I haven't played the game on PS3, but from reading about that version this seems like some very strong praise.
 

mclem

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Jan 16, 2007
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That is such bullshit and you know it. On 360 and PC Skyrim is by far the most stable game at launch that Bethesda has ever put out. It's not even up for debate.

Well, *that's* damning with faint praise.

Skyrim will be a phenomenal game when it's finished.
 

AgentP

Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Jun 5, 2011
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I'm boggled by the Skyrim fapping, huge pretty word, but man it lacks in game play and interesting story/quests. It seems like 2006 all over again, Oblivion had the same glowing response. People, quantity != quality. It doesn't matter how big the world is or how many quest there are, they are not fun and the lack of personality or story in Skyrim is huge.

Portal 2 should take it, but it seems like everyone is under some kind of spell. It will wear off, but it will be too late.
 

Sho_Nuff82

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Jan 2, 2007
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I think a lot of people are missing the point that the fact that you can do literally anything is the fun for a lot of people in Skyrim. Like GTA, it's a game where the intended mission structure ceases to matter because you can do your own thing without repercussions. Some people will play for 50 hours and never complete the main quest.
 
Feb 16, 2011
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I think a lot of people are missing the point that the fact that you can do literally anything is the fun for a lot of people in Skyrim. Like GTA, it's a game where the intended mission structure ceases to matter because you can do your own thing without repercussions. Some people will play for 50 hours and never complete the main quest.
Come on, you can't do "literally" anything.
 

Durante

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I'm boggled by the Skyrim fapping, huge pretty word, but man it lacks in game play and interesting story/quests. It seems like 2006 all over again, Oblivion had the same glowing response.
I can't speak for the general response, but I saw the massive flaws in Oblivion days after release. Skyrim is significantly better than it in a number of essential ways, including
- basic moment-to-moment gameplay (particularly spellcasting)
- toned-down enemy and item scaling
- visual variety and quality
- meaningful character progression system (that does not enforce an unnatural playstyle)
- stability (this one may be debatable, but on my system Skyrim is completely stable and generally performs well, this was not at all the case for Oblivion at launch)
 

Cheech

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so let's ignore the fact that the game doesn't do anything particularly well and was released in beta form, and let's just focus at how big the map is and how many quests there are


if this is our generation of gaming then I'm ashamed

You focus on the production value, the writing, the music, and the world which is absolutely jam packed full of compelling content. Skyrim is the game that fully exploits this generation's hardware (a bit too much if you're a PS3 owner, but c'est la vie), and for most people it seems, captures their imaginations like no other game has this year. For many of us, going back to the beginning of gaming.


woah I just checked the OP and noticed someone actually picked ocarina of time. I find that a little disrespectful to the games that came out this year if you're picking a 1998 game to be 2011 goty.

If the magazine in question is "High Times", this makes much sense. Pass the wampum.
 

Bigfoot

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I'm starting to wondering if the "OMG bugs" response to Skyrim is being made by people that haven't played the game but are grasping for a reason that it shouldn't win GOTY. Yeah, I know about the PS3 problem, but the bugs on other platforms don't seem that game breaking. Maybe the PS3 version should be ignored when it comes to the media GOTY discussion because most of them are playing on PC or 360.

I haven't played it myself but whenever I hear it discussed on various podcasts, all I hear is positive discussions, and barely any mention of game bugs that destroy the experience. Along with that, the comments I read hear from people that play it here are positive as well and these are from people investing 30+ hours in to the game.


Side note: I can't remember the site but I think a cheat code website gave Uncharted 3 their GOTY. I think it was mentioned in the Uncharted 3 OT but I can't find it now.
 

AgentP

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I'm starting to wondering if the "OMG bugs" response to Skyrim is being made by people that haven't played the game but are grasping for a reason that it shouldn't win GOTY. Yeah, I know about the PS3 problem, but the bugs on other platforms don't seem that game breaking. Maybe the PS3 version should be ignored when it comes to the media GOTY discussion because most of them are playing on PC or 360.

I haven't played it myself but whenever I hear it discussed on various podcasts, all I hear is positive discussions, and barely any mention of game bugs that destroy the experience. Along with that, the comments I read hear from people that play it here are positive as well and these are from people investing 30+ hours in to the game.

Well put me down into PC version with no major bugs and has played for more than 30 hours. Not a bad game, a solid 8/10, but trying to rap my head around the hyperbole and GOTY talk. I thought FO3 was a better game in every way, and I'm not even a FO3 fanboy.
 

Codeblue

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I'm starting to wondering if the "OMG bugs" response to Skyrim is being made by people that haven't played the game but are grasping for a reason that it shouldn't win GOTY. Yeah, I know about the PS3 problem, but the bugs on other platforms don't seem that game breaking. Maybe the PS3 version should be ignored when it comes to the media GOTY discussion because most of them are playing on PC or 360.

I haven't played it myself but whenever I hear it discussed on various podcasts, all I hear is positive discussions, and barely any mention of game bugs that destroy the experience. Along with that, the comments I read hear from people that play it here are positive as well and these are from people investing 30+ hours in to the game.


Side note: I can't remember the site but I think a cheat code website gave Uncharted 3 their GOTY. I think it was mentioned in the Uncharted 3 OT but I can't find it now.
So, you accuse people of not playing the game when you haven't played it?

Come on. These bugs exist, some of us can see past them, some of us can't.
 

Derrick01

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May 9, 2011
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wow, Uncharted 3 Media backslash?

I said as soon as U3 was announced that it was going to get backlash because of the unrealistic expectations and hype that U2 caused. It always happens with something that highly regarded. It's the same in sports, the unwritten rule is never follow a legendary coach when he gets fired or retires. You'll never meet the expectations even if you won the title. It would always be "well you didn't win by a lot" or something.
 

Bigfoot

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Any backlash against Uncharted 3 is pretty minor. It is still Top 10 material... it just isn't as good as Uncharted 2 and has a lot more GOTY type games as competition for 2011. I think it will still get a few GOTY nods but it looks like Skyrim is going to win it. My vote would be for Portal 2 but I think it is sadly forgotten by a lot of media.

Uncharted 3 still has a shot at GAF GOTY. I think GAF may have the largest collection of Uncharted fans on the Internets.
 

spirity

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Aug 4, 2007
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Any game that lets me change every single aspect of it, add free content, and lets me design my own is going to get my attention (pc of course). You don't get that degree of flexiblility with any other game I can think of, save other Bethesda titles. The fact that it also happens to be one of the most enjoyable and engrossing experiences I've had this gen is icing on the cake. While I sympathise with ps3 owners who really got shafted, and I completely understand any ill feelings towards Bethesda because of this (hell, i've had my fair share of bugs on the pc though none as brutal as the save file one), it doesn't change my opinion of the game.

Any goty awards handed out to Skyrim is thoroughly deserved.
 
Dec 26, 2009
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NJ
The Witcher 2 needs a lot more love. Not perfect but my personal GOTY. Amazingly beautiful, great combat, excellent story and dialogue with actual MEANINGFUL choices.
 

Deadstar

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I nominate the two best games of the year.

Dark Souls
Witcher 2

Not including these games in the game of the year discussion would be a joke.