• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Retro 20 years ago to this day, SEGA left the hardware business

Nov 6, 2019
870
1,324
430
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Jan 30, 2010
15,550
5,221
1,410
https://twitter.com/Agnates
metacouncil.com
maybe not out of the box like DC but it was there eventually.
You say that like it's a small thing. Hell in the case of GC the most prominent online games were by SEGA after DC died (Phantasy Star Online ports). If modem add ons were on the same level as the Dreamcast out of the box and at launch window then we'd be giving that honor to Saturn with its Sega Net Link games.

Hell, I don't think much other than PSO was available in the West for GC's modem. PS2's online also launched after Dreamcast was put to rest (and had some pretty sweet stuff eventually, like Monster Hunter and FFXI, as well as token support for many more games than DC as Xbox started popularizing online functionality).

It's true DC didn't have a huge library given its short life but it still had more than arcade games with the likes of Grandia 2, Resident Evil Code: Veronica, Lodoss War, PSO, Shenmue was a flagship title so even SEGA wasn't only about arcade games. Even their arcade games could be far from simple, like F355's simulation.

Not that great arcade games weren't hyped for the PlayStation just as well, like Tekken 3 on the PS1 or Ridge Racer in general. Sure they were *slowly* on their way out but so what? Gamers care for quality, not if it sells or not. If money is all there is then mobile games make the most revenue, so all we discuss on GAF is shit.

Still it's especially retarded to see people claim similar for the Saturn which had a huge and diverse library with anything from sims to strategy games of all kinds (SRPG, grand strategy, RTS, war games, you name it), RPGs, sports, all sorts of non arcade action games, etc. Just not as huge as the most successful consoles ever.

But again, great arcade games like SEGA's or all the SNK ports that save for buying a home arcade like the Neo Geo were best on Saturn alongside Capcom's and other companies' that were still successful for a long time are worth any self respecting gamer's time. Being condescending about them just reveals trolls/fanboyism.
 
Last edited:

SkylineRKR

Member
Jun 22, 2011
11,122
2,322
965
Holland
This was really sad as we were really invested into the DC. We ate write ups, borrowed games from eachother since there was so much available within the very first year. Nights of playing DoA2 and SC against eachother, playing HOTD2, Sega GT, Power Stone 2 with 4 players.. The console wasn't about cinematic and epic Triple A bullshit, but about pure gaming.

Then after a strong year of releases in 2000, they throw in the towel immediately.
 
Jun 20, 2019
1,582
2,311
375
New York-Miami
Fooled us many times. The Saturn had nothing but 3 laps arcades or fighting games for 60€ for many years. And inferior hardware while the PS got FFVII and all the goods. Before that the 32X and before that the Mega CD. By the time they made a compelling and yet inferior hardware nobody believed in them. The master system II was dope, tho.

Roger! So mainly software and lack of Big Time exclusives.
 

SkylineRKR

Member
Jun 22, 2011
11,122
2,322
965
Holland
Not sure how old you are, but anyone alive and conscious back then can tell you there was NOTHING like the Dreamcast in 2000. The GC and the Xbox were not even out, and the PS2 had nothing really online to offer at that stage.

You are comparing the DC to consoles that were released AFTER its lifecycle (1998-2001).

I wouldn't say DC was ahead of its time. I was impressed by the graphics in 1999, but I guess those were expected around that time. There was a modem, but by late 1999 we already signed up for broadband on PC and I didn't use dial up. I never hooked the DC online, and no one I knew did. In Europe there wasn't much support. Alien Front didn't even come out here and Outtrigger was offline only.

In the end DC was a great system to own accross 2000 since PS2 could only be imported until late that year and didn't have as much to offer yet. But it was also a system that was made obsolete rather quickly. The awful controller with 1 analog, the lack of DVD which would be in PS2 shortly after... Both the pros and cons of the DC were that it was so hardcore and no frills. It was affordable, it had fun games. But I would still prefer the PS1 for VCD playback (I used those cheap chinese expansions, I think on DC you had to use a boot disc) and music, even that system did feel more multimedia.

VMU was neat, sadly the batteries didn't last at all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Naibel

BPX

Member
Nov 10, 2018
2,788
7,866
600
That means Xbox will be celebrating her 20th birthday

Party Dancing GIF by Florida Georgia Line
 
Last edited:
  • LOL
Reactions: NeoGiffer

NeoGiffer

Member
Nov 29, 2018
1,529
5,325
470


Twenty years ago, SEGA Enterprises announced they would discontinue their console Dreamcast, leaving the hardware business for good. It would soon be purchased by SAMMY and close all of its fabled second party studios: United Game Artists, Hitmaker, Overworks, etc., consolidating all their development staff in-house once more. SEGA's demise as a platform holder spelled the end to almost four decades of innovation in arcades and home consoles. The company that arguably developed the current dominant game demographic - teens and young adults - as well as moved the industry into something that was not only "for kids" but also something stylish, edgy, "mature", is sorely missed.

20 years! It feels like yesterday. Crazy to think there are young adults today with no memory of SEGA as a dominant force in the field.

 

NeoIkaruGAF

Member
Dec 8, 2019
1,923
3,462
515
I loved my dreamcast I had a far better time with it than my PS2 I think I had about 186 games for it in the end there was some right gems aswell .
... bought during the console’s time on the market? That’d be more than 10 games a month since the American launch :messenger_hushed:
 
Jun 20, 2019
1,582
2,311
375
New York-Miami
We read such nonsense on these threads, people don't know what to shit on anymore.

The video-game market was shifting anyway. What place is there today for SEGA games we loved before ? They could release Shining Force IV or Jet Set Radio 3, nobody would care. For these projects to exist today, they would need to be low budget games, which I think explains why SEGA could not go down this road anymore. Even when they do make the effort, it is still to relatively low success (Valkyria Chronicles for example is a 100% pure SEGA title, like the ones we loved before, and this series had a hard time, even though I am happy it somehow managed to survive).

SEGA represented everything I loved in video-games, and all three manufacturers we have today fail at this. I buy their consoles to enjoy third party games, but the first party output is abysmal in my opinion, with a few rare exceptions.


Thx!! I got a clearer Picture now how things went down for Sega.
 

RAIDEN1

Member
Aug 2, 2013
3,000
1,511
740
Did you know? The Sega Genesis could have quite EASILY have been the Atari Genesis, and Atari's entry into the 16 bit console scene, it was only because Jack Tramiel (might have spelt his name wrong) chief of Atari who wasn't happy with the financial side of the deal, that Sega then decided -ok we'll push the console out under our own name, otherwise they may have been a software publisher from 1988 onwards....and if I am correct one of the original founders of Sega also always thought that being software orientated from the beginning would have been the better road for Sega rather than getting involved in the hardware scene..(David Rosen..)
 
Last edited:

YeulEmeralda

Member
Aug 8, 2020
898
832
285
Sega canceling Dreamcast was a good call. It may have had a shot in 1999 but in 2002 it was a bad proposition.
 

ShirAhava

Plays with kids toys, in the adult gaming world
Jun 10, 2008
4,062
1,841
1,440
You've missed out on nearly two decades of incredible games that consoles have provided...because Sega left the hardware business? Really?

I wish had done the same without SEGA console gaming isn't even worth bothering with.
 

Genx3

Member
Jun 23, 2019
773
1,163
400
If Sega had a DVD player built into the Dreamcast they might still be in the HW business today.
What a sad day it was.
 

Genx3

Member
Jun 23, 2019
773
1,163
400
We read such nonsense on these threads, people don't know what to shit on anymore.

The video-game market was shifting anyway. What place is there today for SEGA games we loved before ? They could release Shining Force IV or Jet Set Radio 3, nobody would care. For these projects to exist today, they would need to be low budget games, which I think explains why SEGA could not go down this road anymore. Even when they do make the effort, it is still to relatively low success (Valkyria Chronicles for example is a 100% pure SEGA title, like the ones we loved before, and this series had a hard time, even though I am happy it somehow managed to survive).

SEGA represented everything I loved in video-games, and all three manufacturers we have today fail at this. I buy their consoles to enjoy third party games, but the first party output is abysmal in my opinion, with a few rare exceptions.

I feel you.
Sega had the best 1st party output but people wanted their consoles to watch DVD's instead.
 

namekuseijin

Banned
Jun 10, 2020
3,250
3,640
625
Sega Genesis was their best console - best hardware for the time, tons of great exclusives, arcade ports, amiga ports, pc ports, NES ports and many software partners, including EA and Konami. Way before PlayStation, it was able to give Nintendo a run for its money and broke apart software exclusivity deals.

their other consoles were never as relevant
 
Last edited:

Alan Wake

Member
Aug 28, 2020
436
309
260
If Sega had a DVD player built into the Dreamcast they might still be in the HW business today.
What a sad day it was.
Most of all they were in need of a bigger wallet. Microsoft could afford losing billions on the first Xbox, Sega did not have that kind of money to fight another day.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Genx3

dave_d

Member
Jan 31, 2005
2,019
752
1,580
To this day there are still people (including some video game journalists) who hate Sony and blame them for killing the Dreamcast, when it was all Sega's stupid fault.
The funny part from what I remember of it was that a lot of the rags(like Next Generation) were cheering it on with the attitude that it was the best for Sega and now we'll see their games on the other systems. Seems to me Sega really dropped for a long time and didn't recover until much later. (And there doesn't seem to be as much coming out from them as when they made games for their own system.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Genx3

Genx3

Member
Jun 23, 2019
773
1,163
400
Sega canceling Dreamcast was a good call. It may have had a shot in 1999 but in 2002 it was a bad proposition.

Yea a $200 console with better 1st party games that also played games with better image quality than the $300 PS2 that released a whole year later was a terrible proposition.
 

UnNamed

18+ Member, acts like 12 year old console warrior
Dec 21, 2006
2,191
3,699
1,525
Somewhere in Bananaland
That means Xbox will be celebrating her 20th birthday

Party Dancing GIF by Florida Georgia Line
Strangely, it feels like Microsoft is still the newcomer, when in fact they are in the console market more years than Sega*.

*I'm not counting the arcade market, as I don't count the years before the first Xbox.
 
May 22, 2018
3,013
6,887
510
I feel you.
Sega had the best 1st party output but people wanted their consoles to watch DVD's instead.

You really think the ps2 was so massively successful because people wanted to watch dvd's? Not because of the shitload of legendary games, or the fact that it came hot off the heels of the PS1....it was because of dvd's.
Dr Evil Whatever GIF


Meanwhile Sega released the Dreamcast with admittedly a few good games, but the nasty taste of the shitshow Saturn, 32x and Sega CD in people's mouths. There is no one to blame for Sega's demise in the hardware sector but Sega.
 

Genx3

Member
Jun 23, 2019
773
1,163
400
You really think the ps2 was so massively successful because people wanted to watch dvd's? Not because of the shitload of legendary games, or the fact that it came hot off the heels of the PS1....it was because of dvd's.
Dr Evil Whatever GIF


Meanwhile Sega released the Dreamcast with admittedly a few good games, but the nasty taste of the shitshow Saturn, 32x and Sega CD in people's mouths. There is no one to blame for Sega's demise in the hardware sector but Sega.
Early years it was the DVD's.
After year 2 it was the games.
Did that make you happy?
 
May 22, 2018
3,013
6,887
510
Early years it was the DVD's.
After year 2 it was the games.
Did that make you happy?

I'm not sure how that would make me happy? The dvd was like a bonus feature to an already awesome system that sold so much mainly because it was riding off the wave of ps1 success, and all the benefits that came with that. Namely the massive software support from so many developers. Everyone could see how good of a job Sony did the first go around and believed it would happen again. And it did.

As opposed to finding out Sega has another console coming out. After the Saturn failure. After the 32x disaster. After the lame Sega CD. By then people were done with Sega's nonsense, and the sales showed that. Unfortunately too little too late. But you can't sit here and act as if "people just wanted to watch dvd's and since the dreamcast didn't have a DVD drive it failed". That's warping history into something other than what occurred.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: habibihijababy

Genx3

Member
Jun 23, 2019
773
1,163
400
I'm not sure how that would make me happy? The dvd was like a bonus feature to an already awesome system that sold so much mainly because it was riding off the wave of ps1 success, and all the benefits that came with that. Namely the massive software support from so many developers. Everyone could see how good of a job Sony did the first go around and believed it would happen again. And it did.

As opposed to finding out Sega has another console coming out. After the Saturn failure. After the 32x disaster. After the lame Sega CD. By then people were done with Sega's nonsense, and the sales showed that. Unfortunately too little too late. But you can't sit here and act as if "people just wanted to watch dvd's and since the dreamcast didn't have a DVD drive it failed". That's warping history into something other than what occurred.
I don't know if you were gaming then but the fact Dreamcast GD Roms were easy to burn meant that Sega lost a lot of money to pirating. Had Sega used DVD's instead they would have done a lot better. Many people also saw the PS2 as a cheap DVD player making it a nice addition to your home theatre. That was something the Dreamcast lacked.
 

cartman414

Member
May 3, 2006
9,735
347
1,515
The PS2 year 1 lineup was dismal, lest we forget.

Dreamcast had loads of sweet ports (MvC2, Mars Matrix, SF3: 3S), weird experimental stuff (Seaman, Samba de Amigo), arcade perfect 3d (Soul Calibur)...

It really was the last bastion of old school Sega. They're exhibit A as to what would become of a 3rd party Nintendo.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Genx3

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Jan 30, 2010
15,550
5,221
1,410
https://twitter.com/Agnates
metacouncil.com
I don't know if you were gaming then but the fact Dreamcast GD Roms were easy to burn meant that Sega lost a lot of money to pirating. Had Sega used DVD's instead they would have done a lot better. Many people also saw the PS2 as a cheap DVD player making it a nice addition to your home theatre. That was something the Dreamcast lacked.
GDs were unavailable to consumers, CDs were easy to burn and many games fit in those (potentially with some issues as GDs of even smaller games often had duplicate files to optimize loading, noise, wear and tear of the drive), though some had to make huge cuts (like tons of voiced dialogues in Shenmue) to fit. It wasn't really the media format, it was the copy protection itself that was bypassed early on, first with boot discs you loaded up then switched discs to the pirated game, soon after with the boot up processes being included in each burned disc for a more seamless experience closer to the original deal. But, there's more. The most pirated systems are some of the most successful, from PS1 to the DS to PC. Interest from pirates usually equals interest in general, paying customers included. There just wasn't enough, for whatever reasons, like Sony bullshit marketing and buying off the vast majority of the press in many countries for a whole gen prior.

And yes, SEGA's own past mishaps are to blame as well. Personally I never fell for add-ons like the SEGA CD and 32x, who honestly expected more from such and how long exactly would the Mega Drive/Genesis stay alive? I guess I can imagine being very sour if I bought one. Still, how many people bought them? Not enough to make that the reason for the failure of their good stand alone systems. They weren't exactly big hits that soured tons of people on SEGA, if they had been bigger hits then they'd also get more support and games and not sour anyone to begin with, lol. Saturn was amazing though, it's really ridiculous to see random people here take shots at its library as lacking in any way, even if we don't count all the gems that (sadly) stayed in Japan where it sold better for much longer it still has multiple times over the era's average console attach ratio. Now Dreamcast didn't get to live as long to become equally amazing but started off on the right foot.
 
Last edited:

V4skunk

Member
Nov 20, 2018
3,485
3,901
485
I got a Dreamcast with 12 games for £100 all brand new after Sega went under. Included some of the big games like Shenmue1+2, Sonic A1+2, Skies of Arcadia, Phantasy Star, Chu Chu Rocket.
Was a good system and at the time Ps2 had no games.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Alexios