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120 FPS in Older Games Requires a Simple Patch on the Xbox Series X: PS5 Needs a Full Native Port

The Gamerlorian

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"According to Rocket League developer, Psyonix, enabling 120 FPS on the PS5 “requires a full native port”, while it can be enabled on the Xbox Series X and S with a simple patch. Keep in mind that we’re talking about older titles accessible on the next-gen consoles via the backward compatibility feature.

This means that the game engine needs to be updated to include frame rates up to 120 FPS which can be quite hard to do on a console where you’re often running a dynamic resolution mode, with upscaling features like checkerboard rendering. Enabling 120 FPS on an engine that doesn’t natively support it, therefore requires rewriting the code for all the above-mentioned parameters.

Some engines simply don’t support 120 FPS, and this is similar to when older console games are ported to PC, and the final product is a title that simply can’t be made to run at 120 FPS without glitches and speeding up the animations as well.

Most studios (especially indies) can’t afford to divert that much manpower to bring 120 FPS support to older titles when they already have projects in the pipeline. As per DF chief, Richard Leadbetter, the reason behind this is that the previous-gen Xbox consoles already supported 120 FPS, but it was almost never used.

Microsoft was hoping to leverage newer DX12 technologies such as Variable Rate Shading and Sampler Feedback to make up for the lack of raw processing power and enable 120 FPS in less intensive titles. Although it didn’t quite work at the time, it has made porting games to the new consoles much easier with 120 FPS support nearly out of the box.
 

Mega_Deth

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What is strange here is that it is much easier on Xbox because MS patched in 120FPS support for the Xbox One and Xbox One X back in 2018. That is apparently why b/c games can run at 120 frames easier on the new Xbox consoles. PS4/Pro never supported 120 frames so their games were never patched to support this. I wonder if Sony can implement 120 frame support on PS4 games through a firmware update to make this process easier for developers?
 

Max_Po

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What is strange here is that it is much easier on Xbox because MS patched in 120FPS support for the Xbox One and Xbox One X back in 2018. That is apparently why b/c games can run at 120 frames easier on the new Xbox consoles. PS4/Pro never supported 120 frames so their games were never patched to support this. I wonder if Sony can implement 120 frame support on PS4 games through a firmware update to make this process easier for developers?

Which games run at 120 fps ? care to elaborate ? because both Gears 5 and Forza (if that even support 120 fps) needed 70+ gig patches for me. I just copied my games from Xbox1x to USB and then plugged them in Ser X
 
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PSYGN

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Microsoft being a software/OS company first and foremost has always dealt with having to deal with backwards compatibility and future compatibility. It's no surprise to me that they are better prepared than Sony when it comes to these kinds of matters. I hope Sony learns from this (and I"m sure they have already implemented measures for the following gen) to make it easier for devs to unlock the full potential of their games. It should be as simple as updating a config file and not having to re-build their entire game. Too bad it had to be like this, as this gen has the driest launch titles in history.
 
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nordique

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Microsoft being a software/OS company first and foremost has always dealt with having to deal with backwards compatibility and future compatibility. It's no surprise to me that they are better prepared than Sony when it comes to these kinds of matters. I hope Sony learns from this (and I"m sure they have already implemented measures for the following gen) to make it easier for devs to unlock the full potential of their games. It should be as simple as updating a config file and not having to re-build their entire game. Too bad it had to be like this, as this gen has the driest launch titles in history.


I guess this is true for most core gamers


Myself though, Gamepass is like all new experiences so it is overwhelming in a good way. For me it is “too much at launch”
 
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AgentP

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I don't think many people were expecting 120Hz for older titles and very few people have TVs that support it anyhow ATM. I'm wondering how common 120Hz will even be in five years.
 

Sleepwalker

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Which games run at 120 fps ? care to elaborate ? because both Gears 5 and Forza (if that even support 120 fps) needed 70+ gig patches for me. I just copied my games from Xbox1x to USB and then plugged them in Ser X

Gears does in multiplayer, unsure about forza.

Warzone

Ori

Rocket league

all run at 120 fps on the XSX
 

EventHorizon

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I believe the issue is due to how PlayStation and Xbox APIs work, and their effect on backwards compatibility. PS works at a lower level which is good for removing overhead, but it makes emulating prior hardware harder to do. As a result the PS5's backwards compatibility is based on emulating the PS4's hardware. That forces PS4 games running on PS5 to have more PS4 performance.

Xbox's APIs on the other hand typically run at a higher abstraction level. This allows XSX to do more of its backwards compatibility by updating their API while keeping the console hardware running in full next gen mode. Because MS's APIs make up a larger percent of a game's logic, in effect when they update the APIs to run on the XSX, they are automatically porting more of the XB1 games to run on the XSX. This give XSX better backwards compatibility support, but the greater abstraction also means more overhead for native games.
 
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mhirano

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I believe the issue is due to how PlayStation and Xbox APIs work, and their effect on backwards compatibility. PS works at a lower level which is good for removing overhead, but it makes emulating prior hardware harder to do. As a result the PS5's backwards compatibility is based on emulating the PS4's hardware. That forces PS4 games running on PS5 to have more PS4 performance.

Xbox's APIs on the other hand typically run at a higher abstraction level. This allows XSX to do more of its backwards compatibility by updating their API while keeping the console hardware running in full next gen mode. Because MS's APIs make up a larger percent of a game's logic, in effect when they update the APIs to run on the XSX, they are automatically porting more of the XB1 games to run on the XSX. This give XSX better backwards compatibility support, but the greater abstraction also means more overhead for native games.
Great explanation, thanks!
 

01011001

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I’m sorry ban me. Warn me. I hate what MS has bought to gaming. We stay talking about some old ass games. goddamn lol. I don’t, and most people don’t give a fuck about playing old ass games in 120fps.

I mean if anyone should ban you it's for not using your brain.
Rocket League is not an "old ass game" it is a game that is extremely popular still.
other games that profit from this are for example Star Wars Squadrons, a game that released this year.

so maybe turn on at least half your brain in the future so you stop posting ignorant crap like this


back on topic:
the OP mentions how smaller studios can often not finance a native port to enable 120fps, the kinda funny thing is tho, I know of one that did exactly that!
CrossCode (it's in GamePass, check it out! great title) literally got a native Series S|X port that enables 120fps... you can tell if a game is a native S|X game by pressing Menu and going into game info.
there it tells you the devkit used to compile it and what gen it is compatible with.

an Xbox One/One X game will say Durango and generation XboxOne
an Xbox One game that was patched to use the S|X hardware will say Durango and XboxOne Gen9 aware
an Xbox S|X game will say Scarlett and XboxGen9

so it's kinda weird that the devs of CrossCode, an isometric 2D game, made a native port and all that port does is enable 120fps... I mean, good on them lol but weird nonetheless
 
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RoadHazard

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Even so, I don't understand why Psyonix doesn't have a PS5 version of RL ready to go. I don't see the game shutting down anytime soon. I guess it running on UE3 makes it harder. Hopefully they're working on porting it over to a modern engine.
 

01011001

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Even so, I don't understand why Psyonix doesn't have a PS5 version of RL ready to go. I don't see the game shutting down anytime soon. I guess it running on UE3 makes it harder. Hopefully they're working on porting it over to a modern engine.

yeah UE3 is an issue for them I bet.
they would have to manually port UE3 to the PS5 in order for it to work.

I thought they said they will port the game over to UE4 a while back... not sure if that's still the plan
 

reinking

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Returning my PS5s with this news. What good is a new console if it can't play my old games at frame rates faster than they were originally designed? MS had the right idea. Screw launching new games. Focus on the old ones.
 

Bernkastel

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Xbox's APIs on the other hand typically run at a higher abstraction level. This allows XSX to do more of its backwards compatibility by updating their API while keeping the console hardware running in full next gen mode. Because MS's APIs make up a larger percent of a game's logic, in effect when they update the APIs to run on the XSX, they are automatically porting more of the XB1 games to run on the XSX. This give XSX better backwards compatibility support, but the greater abstraction also means more overhead for native games.
The Xbox version of DirectX(DirectX 11.X) and now DirectX 12 are low level APIs. In fact both DirectX 12 and Vulkan are based on Metal, which is a low level API. Consoles always used low overhead low level APIs because of their limited hardware. High Level APIs like OpenGL and DirectX(upto 11) are used in PC, until AMD made Metal.
 
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supernova8

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While my first reaction is "who gives a shit, I want new games", it's still cool that developers can enable 120fps without doing a full port. Not sure how games (that I actually would want to play) are getting 120fps patches but yeah nice.
 

ZywyPL

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People that think it's a gimmick are misinformed. You get lower input latency and better fluidity of motion. In what world is that a gimmick?

It's a "gimmick" when you have to sacrifice the graphics for it, because you can't afford both ;)
 

EventHorizon

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The Xbox version of DirectX(DirectX 11.X) and now DirectX 12 are low level APIs. In fact both DirectX 12 and Vulkan are based on Metal, which is a low level API. Consoles always used low overhead low level APIs because of their limited hardware. High Level APIs like OpenGL and DirectX(upto 11) are used in PC, until AMD made Metal.

DirectX 12 is a low level API, but that doesn't mean it still isn't more abstract than PlayStation's. Fundamentally, MS's API can't escape the fact that one of its core design pillars is to work on multiple pieces of hardware. That enforces a higher level of abstraction.

From Wolfgang Engel, lead graphics programmer Rockstar's core technology group...
Sony’s own custom API is more low-level and definitely something that graphics programmers love. It gives you a lot of control. DirectX 12 will be a bit more abstract because it has to work with many different GPUs, while the PS4 API can go down to the metal

 
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Edgelord79

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I’m sorry ban me. Warn me. I hate what MS has bought to gaming. We stay talking about some old ass games. goddamn lol. I don’t, and most people don’t give a fuck about playing old ass games in 120fps.


Nice hot take.

On another note, why on earth would this be bannable?
 
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Cert.in.Death

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I’m still not sold on any game outside of MP titles needing 120fps, especially older ones. Who gives a shit if Beyond Good and Evil is 120fps?

More frames the merrier, but I’m not gonna get my nuts in a bind over BC titles sporting apex performance.
 

Snake29

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Microsoft being a software/OS company first and foremost has always dealt with having to deal with backwards compatibility and future compatibility. It's no surprise to me that they are better prepared than Sony when it comes to these kinds of matters. I hope Sony learns from this (and I"m sure they have already implemented measures for the following gen) to make it easier for devs to unlock the full potential of their games. It should be as simple as updating a config file and not having to re-build their entire game. Too bad it had to be like this, as this gen has the driest launch titles in history.

Still waiting for the tools. You can say the same about PlayStation being a software company. It’s just a matter of focus, not like Sony can’t improve stuff.
 
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QuantumZebra

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Is there really that large a demand for 120fps? I've been a console gamer for a while so I'm not used to anything past locked 30/60. I'd imagine 60+ to hit diminishing returns?
 

01011001

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Is there really that large a demand for 120fps? I've been a console gamer for a while so I'm not used to anything past locked 30/60. I'd imagine 60+ to hit diminishing returns?

if you play 120fps for a while and then go back to 60fps it will feel bad for quite a while.
same with going from 60fps down to 30fps.

you get used to every framerate, hell... people played Perfect Dark on N64 and praised it.

but 120fps is just way smoother and feels a lot better to play than 60fps.
you will not feel quite as much of a difference going from 120fps to 200+fps tho. it will feel more responsive and you will notice it but it's not that mich better.
 
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captainraincoat

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120Hz is gimmick. Games are fine without so not a big deal
Tell that to the ps5 fanboys in the cod thread

I much prefer a faster framerate than a higher res to be honest....but that is coming from a pc gamer.....which I can have both

1440p is where it’s at
 
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QuantumZebra

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if you play 120fps for a while and then go back to 60fps it will feel bad for quite a while.
same with going from 60fps down to 30fps.

you get used to every framerate, hell... people played Perfect Dark on N64 and praised it.

but 120fps is just way smoother and feels a lot better to play than 60fps.
you will not feel quite as much of a difference going from 120fps to 200+fps tho. it will feel more responsive and you will notice it but it's not that mich better.

Thanks - that explains it fairly well.

Also lol @ Perfect Dark. Multiplayer when a nova bomb went off... man... be lucky to hit 5fps.