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Trump protester gets beat up at Tucson rally as Trump calls him disgusting

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Gordon Shumway said:
He's a police officer. I'm guessing it's not something they encourage. I'm sure I'm wrong tho..

Actually, reading the post above, you wouldn't give a shit either way.
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If that guy driving actually was hitting people and injuring someone I would say to lock his ass up, but it is legit the law not to block traffic there. He wasn't ramming and driving at dangerous speeds. I'm not sure what any of you are saying here. I guess he should put his life on halt because a few protestors are determined to prevent him from reaching his destination, which may not have been the rally?

Again, if he was driving at dangerous speeds and knocking people around, that is obviously wrong and he should be punished, but that is not the case. He was slowly moving through and those protestors threw a fit because he did not abide and jumped on his vehicle and such. Nothing illegal happened on his end.

Also, not sure what you're talking about a cop for. I wasn't responding for that, but since you brought it up. There was nothing to arrest the driver over.
 
You asked "Why not" to an LEO (Law Enforcement Officer). That's why. Sorry, tots..are you a police officer? You might know law better than I. Again, sorry..
 
Gordon Shumway said:
You asked "Why not" to an LEO (Law Enforcement Officer). That's why. Sorry, tots..are you a police officer? You might know law better than I. Again, sorry..
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He said the cop is a boss and then put a period to end his sentence. Hit two spaces down and said, "saying that" which separated his two thoughts. I responded to the latter about how he/she should not have drove through the crowd.

Maybe its because we're communicating via text that is confusing, but I think you believe the driver should of halted his life for that. I have a job that will not flex if I'm late. If I'm late, I'm in big trouble. I would have slowly inched through as well. No, I am not a police officer, but I hold a position pretty close.(maybe not close, but a I'm a Property Officer).
 
TatorTots said:
He said the cop is a boss and then put a period to end his sentence. Hit two spaces down and said, "saying that" which separated his two thoughts. I responded to the latter about how he/she should not have drove through the crowd.

Maybe its because we're communicating via text that is confusing, but I think you believe the driver should of halted his life for that. I have a job that will not flex if I'm late. If I'm late, I'm in big trouble. I would have slowly inched through as well. No, I am not a police officer, but I hold a position pretty close.(maybe not close, but a I'm a Property Officer).
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I totally agree tbh. I got written up over protests that were blocking off the lincoln tunnel last year. I would've done the exact same thing as the guy in that Jeep in this situation.

I can tell you from experience this is not a popular stance to take on NeoGAF lol
 
Gattsu25 said:
Code: 
[IMG]http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2443412.1448239203!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_635/king23n-1-web.jpg[/IMG]

It should be noted that the image he retweeted is from a white supremacist site and the statistics are made up from a hoax organization called the "Crime Statistics Bureau - San Francisco" which simply doesn't exist.
Click to expand...

Yep. The actual true stat is the white on white crime is actually higher % than black on black. But you'll always see "butwhataboutblackonblackcrimefixtheirownproblems" gaslighting from conservatives.

Of course, what the statistic actually says is the country is still heavily segregated and you're more likely to be killed by your own race, not "x race is violent"
 
SillyNonsense said:
Drumpf supporters sure are a special breed.

I dont check facebook too often but I finally saw my first pro-trump facebook post on there this morning. Checked his page and there are a lot of short posts about how Drumpf will get the country back on track, but these were the diamonds.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen anyone outright support Drumpf but I have a feeling my cousin in law does or at the very least is Republican. He's a complete gun nut that I've noticed is in support of blue lives matter and thinks not all Republicans are crazy despite their party platform.

He's white and after the Chicago protests he claimed it was a riot and called every "rioter" human trash. I called him out on it and he doubled down. Shortly after he deleted his post.
 
BennyBlanco said:
I totally agree tbh. I got written up over protests that were blocking off the lincoln tunnel last year. I would've done the exact same thing as the guy in that Jeep in this situation.

I can tell you from experience this is not a popular stance to take on NeoGAF lol
Click to expand...

I'm learning that is not a popular view, but I cannot understand why not? Just trying to figure out peoples views.
 
TatorTots said:
He said the cop is a boss and then put a period to end his sentence. Hit two spaces down and said, "saying that" which separated his two thoughts. I responded to the latter about how he/she should not have drove through the crowd.

Maybe its because we're communicating via text that is confusing, but I think you believe the driver should of halted his life for that. I have a job that will not flex if I'm late. If I'm late, I'm in big trouble. I would have slowly inched through as well. No, I am not a police officer, but I hold a position pretty close.(maybe not close, but a I'm a Property Officer).
Click to expand...

A property officer is not close at all
 
i'm no trump supporter and i think he will do more bad than good overal as have everyother president.

but this is funny

"If you cross the border illegally in CANADA,you get a 5,000 fine.

if you cross the north korean border illegally. you get shot.You're done.

if you cross the iranian border illegally you are detained indefinitely.

if you cross the saudi arabian border illegally you will be jailed.

if you cross the chinese border illegally you may never be heard from again.

if you cross the venezuelan border illegally you will be branded a spy and your fate will be sealed.

if you cross the cuban border illegally you will be thrown into political prison to rot.

if you cross the u.s. border illegally you get

* a job,

* a drivers license,

* social security card,

* welfare,

* food stamps,

* credit cards,

* subsidized rent or a loan to buy a house,

* free education,

* free health care,

* a lobbyist in washington

* the right to carry your country's flag while you protest that you don't get enough respect

* and, in many instances, you can vote."


am i reading this right? is this all true...
 
iamsentme said:
i'm no trump supporter and i think he will do more bad than good overal as have everyother president.

but this is funny

"If you cross the border illegally in CANADA,you get a 5,000 fine.

if you cross the north korean border illegally. you get shot.You're done.

if you cross the iranian border illegally you are detained indefinitely.

if you cross the saudi arabian border illegally you will be jailed.

if you cross the chinese border illegally you may never be heard from again.

if you cross the venezuelan border illegally you will be branded a spy and your fate will be sealed.

if you cross the cuban border illegally you will be thrown into political prison to rot.

if you cross the u.s. border illegally you get

* a job,

* a drivers license,

* social security card,

* welfare,

* food stamps,

* credit cards,

* subsidized rent or a loan to buy a house,

* free education,

* free health care,

* a lobbyist in washington

* the right to carry your country's flag while you protest that you don't get enough respect

* and, in many instances, you can vote."


am i reading this right? is this all true...
Click to expand...

"MAKE AMERICA LIKE NORTH KOREA AGAIN"
 
iamsentme said:
i'm no trump supporter and i think he will do more bad than good overal as have everyother president.

but this is funny

"If you cross the border illegally in CANADA,you get a 5,000 fine.

if you cross the north korean border illegally. you get shot.You're done.

if you cross the iranian border illegally you are detained indefinitely.

if you cross the saudi arabian border illegally you will be jailed.

if you cross the chinese border illegally you may never be heard from again.

if you cross the venezuelan border illegally you will be branded a spy and your fate will be sealed.

if you cross the cuban border illegally you will be thrown into political prison to rot.

if you cross the u.s. border illegally you get

* a job,

* a drivers license,

* social security card,

* welfare,

* food stamps,

* credit cards,

* subsidized rent or a loan to buy a house,

* free education,

* free health care,

* a lobbyist in washington

* the right to carry your country's flag while you protest that you don't get enough respect

* and, in many instances, you can vote."


am i reading this right? is this all true...
Click to expand...

It's all true..
ForceAwakens7Text.gif
 
iamsentme said:
i'm no trump supporter and i think he will do more bad than good overal as have everyother president.

but this is funny

"If you cross the border illegally in CANADA,you get a 5,000 fine.

if you cross the north korean border illegally. you get shot.You're done.

if you cross the iranian border illegally you are detained indefinitely.

if you cross the saudi arabian border illegally you will be jailed.

if you cross the chinese border illegally you may never be heard from again.

if you cross the venezuelan border illegally you will be branded a spy and your fate will be sealed.

if you cross the cuban border illegally you will be thrown into political prison to rot.

if you cross the u.s. border illegally you get

* a job,

* a drivers license,

* social security card,

* welfare,

* food stamps,

* credit cards,

* subsidized rent or a loan to buy a house,

* free education,

* free health care,

* a lobbyist in washington

* the right to carry your country's flag while you protest that you don't get enough respect

* and, in many instances, you can vote."


am i reading this right? is this all true...
Click to expand...


Why do I get the feeling you transcribed this from some shitty meme image lol.

I am not for open borders or anything but citation needed on a lot of this. If you get caught crossing the US border illegally I'm pretty sure you get arrested and shipped back wherever you came from. If you come here with a Visa and just overstay it, that's where it gets fuzzy.
 
TatorTots said:
Don't know who that is or what proof he provided, but from what I can see in actual videos he would stop and then slowly move if someone blocked his vehicle. I feel wrong for even talking about this. How can someone say he is in the wrong for breaking up illegal activity to get to his destination?
Click to expand...

If the illegal activity is taking place then maybe leave it up to the cops who were obviously there to break up the crowd for traffic instead of taking matters into your own hands and using your car as a shovel because you were impatient. It doesn't take a lot to run your car over someone's foot or to have someone trip and end up under it.
 
BoboBrazil said:
Driver had the right there. They were blocking the freeway. Isn't his fault if they don't move. Plus they were jumping on the hood of his car. Lol at the person screaming attempted murder.
Click to expand...

Sky Saw said:
I'm with you mate, maybe we're cunts but we stand by it.
Click to expand...

TatorTots said:
You're kidding, right? The guy was slowly moving and people were jumping on his vehicle and pushing it for trying to get somewhere. Someone yesterday even found out it is illegal to block traffic in that way. I would of done the same thing. lol at attempted murder.
Click to expand...

You'd be sued and you would lose. Doesn't matter if the other person is breaking the law, if you intentionally hit someone with your car, it's your ass.

And if the person actually died, it's 2nd degree murder.
 
EdibleKnife said:
If the illegal activity is taking place then maybe leave it up to the cops who were obviously there to break up the crowd for traffic instead of taking matters into your own hands and using your car as a shovel because you were impatient. It doesn't take a lot to run your car over someone's foot or to have someone trip and end up under it.
Click to expand...

3 people were arrested...However, it is not illegal to slowly move through a crowd of protestors to reach your destination. I've noticed people like to use really strong words to make this worse than what it is. Words like, "battering ram, shovel, plow, etc." You can't be serious? No one was injured because the driver was consciously moving slowly through a thick crowd. Are you upset someone wanted to get on with their life and did not put their life on hold for the protest? I'm confused.
 
BennyBlanco said:
Why do I get the feeling you transcribed this from some shitty meme image lol.

I am not for open borders or anything but citation needed on a lot of this. If you get caught crossing the US border illegally I'm pretty sure you get arrested and shipped back wherever you came from. If you come here with a Visa and just overstay it, that's where it gets fuzzy.
Click to expand...

* a job,
Yeah. Probably a pretty crappy one though.

* a drivers license,
In about a quarter of states. Google it. 90% of sources will lean waaaay to the right but its true.

* social security card,
Very rarely, such as DACA. Google it I guess.

* welfare,
Be more specific.

* food stamps,
No

* credit cards,
Yes but that's not really surprising.

* subsidized rent or a loan to buy a house,
Kind of. It's complicated. Google public housing and illegal immigrants.

* free education,
Up to high school. They can also qualify for state assistance in some states for college ie Maryland Dream Act.

* free health care,
No

* a lobbyist in washington
Yes, but everyone and their dog has a lobbyist in Washington so...

* the right to carry your country's flag while you protest that you don't get enough respect
Uh... sure?

* and, in many instances, you can vote."
No

If you get caught crossing the border illegally you obviously get sent back, but if you're already here, depending on where you are, they don't just pack you up and send you back, though it depends on where you are. Google sanctuary cities.
 
TatorTots said:
3 people were arrested...However, it is not illegal to slowly move through a crowd of protestors to reach your destination. I've noticed people like to use really strong words to make this worse than what it is. Words like, "battering ram, shovel, plow, etc." You can't be serious? No one was injured because the driver was consciously moving slowly through a thick crowd. Are you upset someone wanted to get on with their life and did not put their life on hold for the protest? I'm confused.
Click to expand...

Actually I'm upset that someone used their car to force their way through people instead of waiting for the police to break them up without incident. I've used strong words because cars are not soft or harmless machines. Do the wrong thing, drive the wrong way, break at the wrong time and someone can get hurt, particularly a pedestrian. I'm glad that no one got hurt but I'm not going to act like the guy was in the right for using his vehicle to push his way through a crowd. In terms of safety, the only ones with the disadvantage in the video we saw were the people in the crowd.
 
kame-sennin said:
You'd be sued and you would lose. Doesn't matter if the other person is breaking the law, if you intentionally hit someone with your car, it's your ass.

And if the person actually died, it's 2nd degree murder.
Click to expand...

That contradicts state law. The driver was not ramming into people or driving at dangerous speeds. In fact, he was driving at such a pace to let people know that he is coming to give them enough time to move aside, but they did not care. It's practically trying to commit suicide and then blaming the driver.

The only people that would have died are the ones that would of laid down on the road in protest and agreed to kill themselves. This is pure nonsense. The driver could even pursue charges if he wants. I don't get what any of you are trying to say. Your upset he did not abide their protest and decided to go on with his/her life is all. No real sustenance is being provided.
 
EdibleKnife said:
Actually I'm upset that someone used their car to force their way through people instead of waiting for the police to break them up without incident. I've used strong words because cars are not soft or harmless machines. Do the wrong thing, drive the wrong way, break at the wrong time and someone can get hurt, particularly a pedestrian. I'm glad that no one got hurt but I'm not going to act like the guy was in the right for using his vehicle to push his way through a crowd. In terms of safety, the only ones with the disadvantage in the video we saw were the people in the crowd.
Click to expand...


I would have been upset waiting for hours to get to my destination for maybe 50 fascist protesters blocking a road. Then when somebody has had enough and attempts to move forward they act like animals, jump on his car, and don't move. Their safety was at a disadvantage because they were too stupid to get out of the way. The irony of the left, protest what we hate but make it more hateful and disruptive to society.
 
Juarez said:
I would have been upset waiting for hours to get to my destination for maybe 50 fascist protesters blocking a road. Then when somebody has had enough and attempts to move forward they act like animals, jump on his car, and don't move. Their safety was at a disadvantage because they were too stupid to get out of the way. The irony of the left, protest what we hate but make it more hateful and disruptive to society.
Click to expand...

You can be as upset as you like. There's still a stark difference between inconveniencing your schedule and straight up risking harming someone. And not in the nebulous "late ambulance" way that usually pops up in protest topics but in an actual "I'm going to use my vehicle to push past you" way. The police were there. They towed away protesters cars for the rest of the traffic. And they were probably set to break up the line of protesters since they took the time to tow cars in the first place.
 
Triplicates said:
Here's another video making the rounds on conservative Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Tatumbug34/videos/988608861209475/

The guy seems level-headed enough, though it wouldn't surprise me if he was already inclined for Trump as a LEO.
Click to expand...

Level-headed? He's describing the protestors as "The most hateful, evil people I've ever seen" and saying he felt they were gonna sucker punch him at any moment, even though it was a Trump supporter that did the all of the fighting.
 
TatorTots said:
That contradicts state law. The driver was not ramming into people or driving at dangerous speeds. In fact, he was driving at such a pace to let people know that he is coming to give them enough time to move aside, but they did not care. It's practically trying to commit suicide and then blaming the driver.

The only people that would have died are the ones that would of laid down on the road in protest and agreed to kill themselves. This is pure nonsense. The driver could even pursue charges if he wants. I don't get what any of you are trying to say. Your upset he did not abide their protest and decided to go on with his/her life is all. No real sustenance is being provided.
Click to expand...

If you knowingly drive over someone who is laying on the road, you will go to jail.
 
Hexa said:
If you get caught crossing the border illegally you obviously get sent back, but if you're already here, depending on where you are, they don't just pack you up and send you back, though it depends on where you are. Google sanctuary cities.
Click to expand...

BennyBlanco said:
Why do I get the feeling you transcribed this from some shitty meme image lol.

I am not for open borders or anything but citation needed on a lot of this. If you get caught crossing the US border illegally I'm pretty sure you get arrested and shipped back wherever you came from. If you come here with a Visa and just overstay it, that's where it gets fuzzy.
Click to expand...

What do you both think about this?

Last year, the administration coped with an unprecedented spike in children and families. By the end of the 2014 budget year, more than 136,000 people traveling as families and unaccompanied children had been caught crossing the border illegally. The numbers had dipped this year, with 79,808 people caught at the border. But the figures surged again during the last three months of this budget year.

Although the administration opened two new detention centers in Texas to hold thousands of immigrants, a federal judge in California ruled in August that the facilities violated a long-standing legal agreement that stipulates that immigrant children cannot be held in unlicensed secured facilities. US District Judge Dolly Gee ordered the department to release the children, with their mothers when possible, “without unnecessary delay” and gave the department until this month to comply.

The administration has appealed that ruling, though before Gee’s order was issued, Johnson had already announced plans to make it easier for families to be released on bond after being caught at the border.

Most of the immigrants interviewed, or 181 of them, said reports about the release of immigrant families influenced their decision to come to the United States.
Click to expand...

http://nypost.com/2015/10/30/immigr...ink-they-can-stay-in-us-and-collect-benefits/
 
TatorTots said:
Why not?
Click to expand...

Not sure if serious.

Unless you are physically in danger of being killed or harmed, the crowd is not a danger to you. You're stuck just like everyone else. Let the Police handle the people illegally blocking the road. That's why the supervisor said that no more cars are getting through.

Someone on top of your car? Will it cause damage? Yeah call the insurance company. Now If someone is in fact attacking you, like the motorcyclists did to that guy in NYC, then yeah you can drive through them (self-defense applies). But otherwise you are using your car as a weapon to commit a battery. Hell, he could have hit an officer, kid within the protesters, or someone could have been injured. You don't have to go fast to run over a foot, to scrape someone with a sharp corner on your car, or just drive over someone.

Now would you rather be inconvenienced for a few hours of your life or for a few years sitting behind bars? Let police deal with the protesters illegally blocking the roads. It may take a while depending on the logistics but it will be taken care of. Call your boss, take pictures, sue the protesters if you want. Get a police report if you really need documentation that it wasn't your fault that you were late or missed an appointment.
 
Triplicates said:
Here's another video making the rounds on conservative Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Tatumbug34/videos/988608861209475/

The guy seems level-headed enough, though it wouldn't surprise me if he was already inclined for Trump as a LEO.
Click to expand...
He claims he felt threatened by the protesters and that they could sucker punch him at any moment
In the next breath, he's dismissing the Trump supporter beating the shit out of someone.
He's also claiming he couldnt detect a shred of racial animus in anything Trump had to say....
 
Was probably thinking right someone before they fought him. It's also the first time someone tried to look like they wanted to stop the guy punching instead of just stand back and cheer
 
Trump supporter charged with assault is Tony Pettway, 32, and apparently an active airman and staff sergeant at Davis–Monthan Air Force Base in Tucson.

This guy has a lot to lose, and he beats the shit out of a random guy with 4 cops in plain sight. I think the guy might not be right in the head.

Captain Casey Osborne, 355th Fighter Wing Chief of Public Affairs released this statement on behalf of Davis-Monthan Air Force Base:

I can confirm the individual depicted in these videos is an Airman assigned to Davis-Monthan Air Force Base. We are reviewing the situation, fully cooperating with local authorities, and will take appropriate action.

All DOD members are authorized to participate in the political process in their personal capacity without implying any endorsement from the DOD.

We believe wholeheartedly in our fellow Americans' rights to express their views on political issues, and we strongly condemn any attempt to silence those views through force or violence.
Click to expand...
 
TheJLC said:
Not sure if serious.

Unless you are physically in danger of being killed or harmed, the crowd is not a danger to you. You're stuck just like everyone else. Let the Police handle the people illegally blocking the road. That's why the supervisor said that no more cars are getting through.

Someone on top of your car? Will it cause damage? Yeah call the insurance company. Now If someone is in fact attacking you, like the motorcyclists did to that guy in NYC, then yeah you can drive through them (self-defense applies). But otherwise you are using your car as a weapon to commit a battery. Hell, he could have hit an officer, kid within the protesters, or someone could have been injured. You don't have to go fast to run over a foot, to scrape someone with a sharp corner on your car, or just drive over someone.

Now would you rather be inconvenienced for a few hours of your life or for a few years sitting behind bars? Let police deal with the protesters illegally blocking the roads. It may take a while depending on the logistics but it will be taken care of. Call your boss, take pictures, sue the protesters if you want. Get a police report if you really need documentation that it wasn't your fault that you were late or missed an appointment.
Click to expand...
Thank you for this. TatorTots, TheJLC is a cop.
 
I'd expect a military man especially a sergeant to have better restraint on hitting people.

I'm sure the KKK man probably riled him up, however placing your hands on someone has no place in our society.

I'm glad the protestor is ok.
 
Just saw all this crazyness in my facebook feed.

Given that this happened in my hometown, I wanted nothing to do with it because thankfully the support for Trump in Tucson isn't all that high - in Phoenix this would've been a different story.

I had to read the article like 5 times though to make sure I was getting this right - that the Trump supporter was the black man lol
 
So apparently this is the kind of speakers he has on to get the crowd worked up.

Around 6:30 PM, the blaring music was lowered and a speaker was announced and took the stage. She was a woman who tragically lost her son in a heinous murder. She told her moving story about how her son left for school in the morning but did not show up for his after-school job. She was frantic and called the police, who discovered that her son had been brutally murdered and mutilated.

Finally she revealed that the killer of her son was an “illegal immigrant” and the crowd exploded. The anger at the fact the murderer was an “illegal immigrant” was almost stronger than the fact the woman’s son had been murdered. She expressly blamed Marco Rubio for the death of her son. It was rough, and the crowd was angry. Any protesters revealing themselves right then would have been at great risk.
Click to expand...
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/03/20/1502779/-My-firsthand-experience-at-a-Trump-rally
 
johnsmith said:
So apparently this is the kind of speakers he has on to get the crowd worked up.


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/03/20/1502779/-My-firsthand-experience-at-a-Trump-rally
Click to expand...

If anyone thinks Trump's "general election pivot" will work I have a yuge bridge to sell them. He's doubling, tripling, quadrupling down on this racist dogwhistle (that's not even a dogwhistle at this point) bullshit there's no way he can dig himself out of it. He's covered himself in miles-deep mountains of shit at this point and no amount of "I didn't really mean that" in the general will wash the stink off.
 
EatinOlives said:
If anyone thinks Trump's "general election pivot" will work I have a yuge bridge to sell them. He's doubling, tripling, quadrupling down on this racist dogwhistle (that's not even a dogwhistle at this point) bullshit there's no way he can dig himself out of it. He's covered himself in miles-deep mountains of shit at this point and no amount of "I didn't really mean that" in the general will wash the stink off.
Click to expand...
The problem is some minorities buy into his "punch em in the face" swagger and this election cycle isn't really about a dissertation on policy positions, which is what Hillary will offer. It's about burning down the system and whomever doesn't like it taking a foot up their ass.
Trump is dangerous in the general and yhe should not be dismissed.
I wouldn't be surprised if Trump took 12 to 14% of the Black vote in the general. I really wouldn't.
 
theignoramus said:
The problem is some minorities buy into his "punch em in the face" swagger and this election cycle isn't really about a dissertation on policy positions, which is what Hillary will offer. It's about burning down the system and whomever doesn't like it taking a foot up their ass.
Trump is dangerous in the general and he should not be dismissed.
Click to expand...

Oh, I definitely don't advocate for dismissing him. Dude's a real danger and should not be taken lightly. I'm mostly talking about the fantastical idea that Trump will do this magical pivot to the center that will have everyone forgetting all the shit. People need to realize this is the platform he's running on now and what he has done and said cannot be undone and unsaid. We do, however, need as many people in the voting booths as possible to kick his sorry ass to the curb. This isn't an election people can sit back and say "naaah he can't do it, everyone else will vote in my place!"
 
Triplicates said:
Here's another video making the rounds on conservative Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Tatumbug34/videos/988608861209475/

The guy seems level-headed enough, though it wouldn't surprise me if he was already inclined for Trump as a LEO.
Click to expand...

His articulation seems reasonable, but he basically says Trump wasn't inciting anything, then skips over Trump's comments about building a wall as if it was nothing. Even if Trump's words were restrained at this event, there is a wider context to this debate and he has said many provactive things elsewhere. The protestors sure are combative, but they are responded to a narrative Trump has created. This guy's analysis is a black box, on this event only, moreover, his gloss over the reasons for the controversy around trump do say something about his allegiance.
 
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