ScreenSplitter
Member
I hope Clara will become more than a slightly prettier Martha in Series 8.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Doctor Who: Time Of The Doctor |OT| 11's hour is over now... The clock is striking 12
- Thread starter infiniteloop
- Start date
- Status
I don't know if that would really change anything. I really enjoyed the Pandorica two-parter, but The Pandorica Opens rushes a LOT through its first 15 minutes or so - River, Elizabeth, Churchill, Van Gogh, Romans, oldest cliffs in the universe, etc. - and The Big Bang has a lot of Moffat's expositional writing that didn't really become noticeable until S6 but is plain as day there. I don't think a two-parter would really fix that, and if anything, it would just make him likely to cram even in more in there.
This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I thought The Name of the Doctor was the best paced of the Moffat finales.
The only reactions I ever followed online were GAF's, but there was a ton of criticisms and complaints about RTD's era while it was on the air.
He kind of undermined Doomsday within that very episode, where we get this really heartaching goodbye between the Doctor and Rose, and then immediately cut to the Titanic crashing and "What? What?! ...WHAT."
I know he had to tease the Christmas special, but the timing was just really jarring.
heh, that really was one hell of a turnaround.
WiiRevolution1
Member
Great finale to Matt Smith. I quite liked it unlike some people, but then again I like pretty much all, episodes to some degree.
Best regeneration scene ever. (Both of them.) Ten and Eleven are pretty much tied as my favorite, and I do hope Capaldi is good.
So anywayz: Been delving into Classic Who. Took a huge break right after I started but on Christmas I finished Story #2: The Daleks. I plan to watch all of the stories in order and currently own upto Story #5.
Also been looking into getting into the New Who Books and Audiobooks, and it just seems like a mess. Looking at amazon, most of Ten's books are no longer being sold, lots of Ten's audiobooks are also only available used. I haven't looked to much in 11's, but it seems like its mostly still available.
But its just all over the place. Only want to get expanded stuff of Doctors I watched, and Most of the later Destiny of The Doctor's stuff is just not on amazon. Wanted to get 1's (Since its before the first story) which is there but 10's and 11's isn't. I found 11's on the RedFinish website but not 10's.
This is all very confusing. I can possibly understand the old 10 books and audiobooks not being sold since they might stop printing them after a few years (but it still feels soon) but why Destiny of The Doctor? It just came out!
Like I said, all over the place. Atleast 11's stuff is still available easily for now.
It seems like the hardcovers to 10's books are available easily enough used, and it appears that all of them do not have a dust jacket so I don't have to worry but getting a book that missing something. But man, I don't wanna buy CDs used. I'm sure they are all available easily digitally (then again with everything so inconsistent, who knows?) but I really want physical versions of these so its a bummer for sure. Its been a couple days since I looked, but I think BBC's website was selling atleast Pest Control new, but I'm in US and it didn't seem like they ship it here. Bah. I just hope I can get all of the Classic Who DVDs in the next few years without worrying about them stopping production of any of them.
Also: Damn at Clara only getting 1 book when they just released three in the same time. Poor girl seems to get shafted at every corner. I actually quite like her. :/
Best regeneration scene ever. (Both of them.) Ten and Eleven are pretty much tied as my favorite, and I do hope Capaldi is good.
So anywayz: Been delving into Classic Who. Took a huge break right after I started but on Christmas I finished Story #2: The Daleks. I plan to watch all of the stories in order and currently own upto Story #5.
Also been looking into getting into the New Who Books and Audiobooks, and it just seems like a mess. Looking at amazon, most of Ten's books are no longer being sold, lots of Ten's audiobooks are also only available used. I haven't looked to much in 11's, but it seems like its mostly still available.
But its just all over the place. Only want to get expanded stuff of Doctors I watched, and Most of the later Destiny of The Doctor's stuff is just not on amazon. Wanted to get 1's (Since its before the first story) which is there but 10's and 11's isn't. I found 11's on the RedFinish website but not 10's.
This is all very confusing. I can possibly understand the old 10 books and audiobooks not being sold since they might stop printing them after a few years (but it still feels soon) but why Destiny of The Doctor? It just came out!
Like I said, all over the place. Atleast 11's stuff is still available easily for now.
It seems like the hardcovers to 10's books are available easily enough used, and it appears that all of them do not have a dust jacket so I don't have to worry but getting a book that missing something. But man, I don't wanna buy CDs used. I'm sure they are all available easily digitally (then again with everything so inconsistent, who knows?) but I really want physical versions of these so its a bummer for sure. Its been a couple days since I looked, but I think BBC's website was selling atleast Pest Control new, but I'm in US and it didn't seem like they ship it here. Bah. I just hope I can get all of the Classic Who DVDs in the next few years without worrying about them stopping production of any of them.
Also: Damn at Clara only getting 1 book when they just released three in the same time. Poor girl seems to get shafted at every corner. I actually quite like her. :/
Jest Chillin
Member
Rewatching Time of the Doctor and the more I think about it the more I think The Doctor had assumed the wrong goal of the Time Lords all along. He had assumed they eanted to cross back over but given the way things worked out, I think their intent may have been to give The Doctor more regenerations the whole time.
The reason I'm beginning to think that are:
-After Clara tells the Time Lords that The Doctor is in trouble, they give him more regenerations. But then they seal the crack. Surely if they assumed giving him the Regens was enough to get him out of trouble, they could've just come through if that was their intent.
-In Day of the Doctor the Time Lords Generals witnessed all 13 of his regenerations. Even without knowing about Meta Crisis 10, that would mean that they knew he was out of regens and would need more. The voice coming through the crack was that of one of the Generals from DotD.
-The Time Lords have been known to reward individuals with more regens for helping in dire situations right? What is more deserving of such a reward than saving all of Gallifrey? Even if they were sent to a different Universe, that's obviously better than being destroyed.
I'm sure some will think this is reaching but I can't really see it any other way atm.
The reason I'm beginning to think that are:
-After Clara tells the Time Lords that The Doctor is in trouble, they give him more regenerations. But then they seal the crack. Surely if they assumed giving him the Regens was enough to get him out of trouble, they could've just come through if that was their intent.
-In Day of the Doctor the Time Lords Generals witnessed all 13 of his regenerations. Even without knowing about Meta Crisis 10, that would mean that they knew he was out of regens and would need more. The voice coming through the crack was that of one of the Generals from DotD.
-The Time Lords have been known to reward individuals with more regens for helping in dire situations right? What is more deserving of such a reward than saving all of Gallifrey? Even if they were sent to a different Universe, that's obviously better than being destroyed.
I'm sure some will think this is reaching but I can't really see it any other way atm.
MisterNegative
Banned
Man this was a let down, I expected so much more.
I even watched it high and it still sucked. Why can't Who writers get finales right
I even watched it high and it still sucked. Why can't Who writers get finales right
APZonerunner
Member
The company that did the Audio stuff, (Not the plays, that's BigFinish and is mercifully separate) was once a department of the BBC that was partially sold to another company because the government wanted to sell off certain bits of the BBC so it cost them less. It went bankrupt literally last month, so that's what's going on. If you want the Destiny of the Doctor stuff, grab it fast before it disappears potentially forever, as who knows what sorts of rights disaster that is.
This is why people are nervous about more of the BBC being privatized or more shows being handed off to Worldwide, as AudioGo was actually part-owned by BBC Worldwide, but was sold on, went busted and is now dead anyway.
APZonerunner
Member
I think when it's absolutely vital Moffat tends to really stick the landing. His first Who story? Yeah. First for Tennant? Absolutely. Proving he can handle a Doctor-lite? Yep. Introducing his era? You betcha.
When it's not massively important he tends to be less solid and a lot more shaky. I think the more he thinks about scripts the better they are. This episode is the first time he hasn't really landed an episode that I'd say is "important" absolutely, and I think it's probably because he obsessed so much over the 50th that he neglected this. He had to decide which one was the more important one to really properly deliver the goods on.
I'll be interested to see how Capaldi's first script shapes up, as he only had two months to do it between filming of this and the readthrough right before Christmas. I'm not expecting another Eleventh Hour, as he worked on that script for as good as two years - the first draft of that existed about a week after RTD finished writing Journey's End!
ScreenSplitter
Member
Aha actually it was Catherine Tates WHERE THE HELL AM IIIIII. I was absolutely furious. Credit to RTD he was able to make me like the character after that really.
paradox121
Member
I was thinking about this earlier actually and I think there will be a much greater focus on post-regeneration craziness this time around for a few reasons:
1) Capaldi doesn't have to 'prove' himself as much as Matt did. He doesn't really need to fix down his Doctor and prove his strength as an actor because most people are already sold on him. So he has the flexibility to be a bit more crazy.
2) I think having the Doctor be a bit more weird and wacky and funny will help bridge the gap to what may ultimately be a much calmer, sombre Doctor. It helps reassure people who have only known Matt. Plus its an immediate source of humour having an older Doctor unknowingly act like he still has a young body.
3) You have Clara there as a fixed point. Someone the audience knows and someone who can ground the Doctor and make him remember who he is as it were.
As for overall quality, I'm expecting something on the level of Bells from this year. Totally serviceable, does its job with introducing a new character, but isn't going to blow anything out of the water. Plus, as much as Moffat talks about how writing for different Doctors is the same, there are distinct Matt-isms he's gonna have to ween himself out of.
ScreenSplitter
Member
Something like Bells with a character who's actually interesting would be super.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Yep, favourite regeneration with Eccleston's one. But this one was on another level from that one (and every other one in the series, new and old). So good. I count the regenation as a whole, from his old Matt dialogue against the Daleks until he turns into Capaldi.
WiiRevolution1
Member
Woah thanks for the heads up! Unbelievable they stop producing them just as they release.
Is it just Destiny of the Doctor? Or are any of the regular 11 CDs at risk of being discontinued? (I'm pretty sure BigFinish just does the 1st-8th Doctor stuff?) Very limited on money right now. If I can guess I'll just go with 1's and/or 11's Destiny CDs. Then get the others in a couple weeks if I can.
Edit: Also its just the CDs right? I'll still be able to download these if they stop making them or no?
paradox121
Member
On reflection, Bells is secretly a fantastic little episode, but weirdly one where Clara is at her most bland (maybe rivaling Crimson Horror, which is also secretly great). Bells feels like a really good RTD-era episode, in particular an RTD-era companion introduction episode, with all the visual finesse of the Moffat era. Like, that one 'continuous' shot of Clara and the Doctor going into the TARDIS, flying, landing on the aeroplane, them getting out, saving the plane, then leaving is visually fantastic.
APZonerunner
Member
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Doctor_Who_audiobooks#Sixth_Doctor_releases
Anything on here marked as being by BBC Audio or AudioGo is under threat, CDs and downloads alike. BBC Audio ones are under threat as that's the department the BBC sold to AudioGo, so all rights to reprint those stories or whatever fell into the hands of that now-dead company, I think. We'll have to see how the rights fall, it isn't really clear, and then if stuff does fall back to the BBC chances are the BBC won't bother to rerelease older stuff, as it'll be too expensive to do so.
Oh right! It was Runaway Bride that followed, not Voyage. I blame Tate's memory-altering shriek.
heh, I really disliked Bells myself, so I hope Moffat and Capaldi hit a little higher than that.
In hindsight, maybe I just really hated the "what is Wifi" characterization for Clara. I actually like Clara a lot but man that was a bad way to introduce her. :lol
I don't have a problem with Moffat but I hope that he somehow has a whole new bag of tricks for Capaldi. I'll build an altar for him myself if he gives us something on the level of Series 5 again.
The optimistic in me feels that the bland episodes in the second half of Series 7 were because he was stalling for the 50th + regeneration, and that he already has a set of ideas that he didn't use with Matt as he was saving them for Capaldi's run.
The optimistic in me feels that the bland episodes in the second half of Series 7 were because he was stalling for the 50th + regeneration, and that he already has a set of ideas that he didn't use with Matt as he was saving them for Capaldi's run.
WiiRevolution1
Member
So almost everything New Who, yikes! Interesting that the 11th Destiny Audiobook is listed under Big Finish though. Thanks for the heads up! I got some money to spend. Lots and lots of money, as fast as I can.
Even if I have almost none. 
Hhmm I think I may be able to get three CDs within the week. Since 10 is already dead, I guess I'll start with the Destiny 1,9. And 11. Maybe get the 10 as download.
S7 really feels like a victim of timing. Between prepping for the 50th and having to write around the split, it doesn't feel like Moffat really thought out the plotting for that series. Not just in terms of Clara's characterization and the larger Impossible Girl story, but a lot of smaller plot points too:
-The Doctor erasing himself from the universe's records didn't have any effect on anything
-Oswin erasing the Daleks' knowledge of the Doctor didn't amount to anything and was then undone
-Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS resolves its story with amensia and then reverses that a couple episodes later
-Name of the Doctor introduces the Doctor's grave on Trenzalore and does away with it six months later.
Hopefully writing one continuous run again - and not being sidetracked with anniversaries and regenerations - puts Moffat back on track for a more focused series next year.
Yeah, that's a scene that is super easy to forget about (in fact I totally did), but when you watch the episode it feels super seamless in a way that's amazing.
So almost everything New Who, yikes! Interesting that the 11th Destiny Audiobook is listed under Big Finish though. Thanks for the heads up! I got some money to spend. Lots and lots of money, as fast as I can.Even if I have almost none.
Hhmm I think I may be able to get three CDs within the week. Since 10 is already dead, I guess I'll start with the Destiny 1,9. And 11. Maybe get the 10 as download.
Big Finish has the whole series for purchase on their site, for either $8 a CD or $4 a download.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
What a wonderful regeneration. I almost feel like Matts regeneration was in part a response to how divisive Tennants was. I loved Matts Doctor, absolutely adored him from start to finish, and as much as I wish he wasn't going yet, it's hard to feel too bad when his Doctor lived out a long and full life. Not only that, but he went out with such courage and sincerity. They also brought back, referenced, and addressed basically the entirety of 11s run. Matts regeneration felt like a celebration of life, and he got to rest on his own terms, without ever spinning out of control with self delusions the way that 10 did.Whatever happens next with Capaldi, it feels like a true continuation, not 'another man that goes walking off'.
It's in complete contrast to the egomaniac and circumstances of 10, with the temper tantrums, ending up alone and afraid in his Tardis, 'I don't want to go', and all that.
The brief introductions to each new Doctor (in NuWho) have always been fairly shaky (with Matts being the best I think),that said the scene with Capaldi just awkward and... bad. Hopefully he ends up being a good Doctor Who because that scene was easily the worst of the new Doctors introductions (well 9 into 10 doesn't really count as Tennant has one line), and the accent was just jarring.
I can't help but agree (aside from series 5 obviously). Moffat aims higher, but as a consequence the end product is often messier and miss the mark more spectacularly. I remember that when Moffat took over everyone was super thrilled (much like with Capaldi now), but I said is then that just being a good writer doesn't mean you can also be a good show runner. It's pretty clear that Moffat and his team aren't good and making due under tight deadlines, and you can always tell what episodes got preferential treatment and what episodes were sent out to die, basically.
He did an interview recently where he talked about fixing things in the show and taking it in a new direction. Whatever he has in mind to freshen it up, I'd hope that he'd also taking a look at the production of the show itself. All of the systemic problems of his tenure as show runner have only gotten worse with time.
It's in complete contrast to the egomaniac and circumstances of 10, with the temper tantrums, ending up alone and afraid in his Tardis, 'I don't want to go', and all that.
The brief introductions to each new Doctor (in NuWho) have always been fairly shaky (with Matts being the best I think),that said the scene with Capaldi just awkward and... bad. Hopefully he ends up being a good Doctor Who because that scene was easily the worst of the new Doctors introductions (well 9 into 10 doesn't really count as Tennant has one line), and the accent was just jarring.
I can't help but agree (aside from series 5 obviously). Moffat aims higher, but as a consequence the end product is often messier and miss the mark more spectacularly. I remember that when Moffat took over everyone was super thrilled (much like with Capaldi now), but I said is then that just being a good writer doesn't mean you can also be a good show runner. It's pretty clear that Moffat and his team aren't good and making due under tight deadlines, and you can always tell what episodes got preferential treatment and what episodes were sent out to die, basically.
He did an interview recently where he talked about fixing things in the show and taking it in a new direction. Whatever he has in mind to freshen it up, I'd hope that he'd also taking a look at the production of the show itself. All of the systemic problems of his tenure as show runner have only gotten worse with time.
.
That's how I imagine he goes about writing his main arcs, and some of his bottle episodes too.
WrenchNinja
Member
Man, I really love 11ths speech at the end. It's such a nice contrast to 10. He embraces death and appreciates the life he's had while Ten felt like his life was cut short.
Well compared to Eleven, Ten's life kind of was cut short - he only lived for four or five years versus Eleven's 1,100 or so.
Am I the only one who kind of wants the Doctor not to have any real goodbyes? One of the nice thing about his regenerations is how hey if he "dies" he regenerates, that's one of the more interesting concepts about him, always having time to give a speech or two before the new version feels a little pandering. You can play with it in so many ways with the companions having to deal with it.
One of the biggest problems I have looking back is how wasted the potential for Matt Smith's run could have been if they said "Hey, regenerations are all used up, this could be the last Doctor!" or "What will happen?" It could have been made into a truly epic situation with him suppose to be the last one unless an alternative was found only for him to either make peace there wasn't after finding there wasn't one. Only of course to get more thanks to the Time Lords. It could have been grand and yet this one basic concept of the Doctor that was suppose to be so very important was treated like a fart in the wind.
That bugs the hell out of me.
One of the biggest problems I have looking back is how wasted the potential for Matt Smith's run could have been if they said "Hey, regenerations are all used up, this could be the last Doctor!" or "What will happen?" It could have been made into a truly epic situation with him suppose to be the last one unless an alternative was found only for him to either make peace there wasn't after finding there wasn't one. Only of course to get more thanks to the Time Lords. It could have been grand and yet this one basic concept of the Doctor that was suppose to be so very important was treated like a fart in the wind.
That bugs the hell out of me.
I'm sorry, but Moff being sidetracked is no-one else's fault but his.
Staggering series 7 may not have been his call but his time management skills are his own. If they'd said 'right Moff , we want one continuous run out the door now' I may have had more sympathy. Besides which, the end of S7 effectively served to wrap up storylines he put into play at the start of S5 onwards - so why does it feel he just chucked the resolutions to them out the door? Because....he's the JJ Abrams of British TV. Great intriguing concepts that play great in 30 second trailers? Check. Finishing what he started? Nope.
I'm just the opposite, I prefer them making a big deal out of the regeneration. Because even though the Doctor will live on, this particular version won't. The Doctor/actor you've become familiar with and invested in is going to disappear, so I like that the show is aware of this and gives them a proper goodbye.
eh, I don't know, on the one hand it sounds kind of interesting but on the other hand it's a story that intrinsically has no stakes because you know right from the start that it's not really the end and the show isn't getting cancelled. It's the same thing as the Doctor's death arc in S6, where you already know from day one that the Doctor isn't actually going to die. Plus they would need to announce the new Doctor months beforehand anyway, which would take the wind out of that story.
"Moffat didn't think out the plotting" wasn't meant to absolve him from blame.
So I have yet to watch the 50th or the Christmas Special, but is there something I'm missing? How or where is it implied 11 lived so much longer than 10?
Ein Bear
Member
I think it's a tricky balancing act. Like you say, in the context of the show, the Doctor's not dying at all, he's completely fine. But I think you have to have a bit of a send off for the actor themselves, since their leaving is an end of an era sort of thing, and it's sad to see someone you really enjoyed in the role moving on.
I thought they handled Matt Smith's goodbye really well. It didn't last too long, and the Doctor himself, whilst a bit melancholy, seemed pretty upbeat about things.
Tennant's exit was way too much though. Watching him sit around crying in a cafe about not wanting to regenerate was really stupid. Whilst every Doctor is different, I felt that in trying to make 10's regeneration a big 'event', they steered a bit too far away from the idea that, at the end of the day, it's still the same guy underneath the face.
APZonerunner
Member
He ages significantly during the Christmas Special, and a chunk of time for him has passed, again, between the end of Series 7 and the 50th. I do think this is an important point for the detractors of 10's regeneration - 11 goes out more gracefully because he's lived an incredibly full and fulfilling life, and one far less beset by tragedy and disaster (at least as far as we see) than 10. There's Amy and Rory, but beyond that he does quite well, whereas everything that 10 touches goes to shit in his brief time.
I'm really curious how the Doctor almost but not quite coming to tears to Wilf in the cafe about his predicted death/regeneration is all that different to the Doctor in the lower level of the TARDIS sobbing because he's got to go to Trenzalore, or then the stressing in Day of the Doctor about where he's going to end up, etcetera. You have to remember, also at that point he also doesn't know which - he believes he might well be facing his actual, final death and believes that right up until the moment it's all over. Still, he says "even if I don't die, it feels like dying... some new man goes sauntering away..." I think the Tenth Doctor has pretty good reason to be how he is in his final episodes. I'll honestly defend that cafe scene to the hilt, anyway. It and the scene where he finally bites it and rages against the dying of the light - which is lovely and very Shakespearian for a Shakespeare-driven stage actor - are two of the finest in terms of dialogue and acting both the show has produced ever, ever.
But it comes back to my point above; 11 has a much happier, much more full, and much more lengthy life than 10. That Doctor rages because he hasn't lived enough, he hasn't done enough, and unlike 9 he isn't martyr all the time and doesn't have a death wish. In spite of everything awful that has happened to him he loves life, perhaps too much. There's always an undercurrent of dark selfishness with that Doctor, and when they finally say goodbye to him they surface it in the most obvious way before they lose that trait. By the time 11 says goodbye he couldn't carry on if he wanted to - he's too old, too weak. The alternative to regenerating at that point is to die. Of course he accepts it. The whole point of the thing with 10 is that he's terrified to die, and then when he doesn't and he's presented with regenerating, he rages because he wanted more time as he is there.
I also don't think there's anything wrong with the way regeneration is written in that; as the "death" of a personality, as being equated to dying. It's obviously still the same man but again, the way the romantic, whimsical 10th Doctor views things tints that, and different regenerations have described their past selves in similar ways or vastly different ways; it depends on the personality. Think that Sarah Jane episode RTD wrote really helps that for people who do have issues - hearing the 11th Doctor describe the 10th death with hindsight (and hearing RTD's words delivered by Matt) is a great clarifier.
paradox121
Member
I really wish I could find it, but I saw a really great image the other day that had Amy and the Doctor from this episode, with the annotation 'The Doctor embraces death like an old friend' which I thought was a fantastic little observation.
But this is still a man who had to showrun S7, two episodes of which he had to write, create an arc for this year, write an anniversary special which had to be of amazingly high quality lest he be immediately chucked off a very high building, organise a cast among various other elements for said anniversary special, publicise the anniversary special, cast a new Doctor, write a Christmas special/regeneration episode, and begin work on S8. All the while showrunning Sherlock and getting that out which is solely dependent on the involvement of two actors who are currently extremely hot property.
I'm not excusing the quality of S7 but I think the guy at least deserves a bit of a reprieve.
Ah, thanks.I don't know that I agree with everything 10 touches going to shit, though. It's on the writers for this, but all the main companions turn out alright in the end. It shouldn't be that way. It would have been much more fitting and heartbreaking if Donna were left in the library to me. They went for a different heartbreak with her losing all memories of time with 10, but then they act like "nah, no big deal...one more time she remembers to help herself out of a jam, rather than burning up like 10 said she would if she recalled anything". Martha ends up fine, Rose even gets a happier ending than we thought she would with a clone of 10. They undercut what could be great, albeit sad send offs, again and again. Really giving 10 a solid reason to be bummed about having to go out with a life unfulfilled.
Ten aged in real time, so he was 904 or something by the time he regenerated. Eleven, on the other hand, aged for about 200 years in between dropping off Amy and Rory in The God Complex and being "killed" by River in The Impossible Astronaut, aged some more presumably in the gap between Amy/Rory and Clara, and then several more centuries in the Christmas special.
Capaldi also made a remark about being 1,995 years too young to play the Doctor, which would peg Twelve at about 2,000.
Lashley
Why does he wear the mask!?
Capaldi is 5 years old!? Who knew
I'm not doubting you, but is this just going off some word in the show, or is there some timeline out there, or interview stating it all? Feel dumb for missing it so easily if it's in the show, front and center. Then again, I'm catching up with a two year old playing around us most of the time.
Ten was around for ages, I'm pretty sure he was on the run for a few hundred years after the Ood called him at the end of Waters Of Mars.
aHebrewMenagerie
Member
No, because even in Series 5, 11 referred himself to being 907 or something like that. I think he was on the run for 1 or 2 years.
2,050 then
Just piecing together a few off-hand mentions in the show. Eccleston says he's 900 years old, Tennant updates his age by one in each new series (I think?), Smith mentions in The Impossible Astronaut that he's around 908 or something, and his older self (the one that travels in between Closing Time and The Wedding of River Song) says he's around 1,100.
In the 50th, Smith says he's about 1,200, so another century for him has passed somewhere - personally I'd peg that as his morose loner period in between The Angels Take Manhattan and The Snowmen, but I could be wrong.
And then he ages more in the Christmas special, but since you haven't seen it yet I won't say anymore beyond that!
The Human Nature/Family of Blood two-parter is also pretty instrumental in establishing the legitimacy of a personality dying.
Cool, thanks man.2,050 then
Just piecing together a few off-hand mentions in the show. Eccleston says he's 900 years old, Tennant updates his age by one in each new series (I think?), Smith mentions in The Impossible Astronaut that he's around 908 or something, and his older self (the one that travels in between Closing Time and The Wedding of River Song) says he's around 1,100.
In the 50th, Smith says he's about 1,200, so another century for him has passed somewhere - personally I'd peg that as his morose loner period in between The Angels Take Manhattan and The Snowmen, but I could be wrong.
And then he ages more in the Christmas special, but since you haven't seen it yet I won't say anymore beyond that!
Random comment incoming...
This always bothered me...The Pond's deserved a better fate than what they got. It just seemed like they were more in a hurry to close their storyline and introduce Clara than to give them a proper send off.
The fact that her "good-bye" is done in written form says it all, really.
obin_gam
Member
That was Moffats choice. If he didnt feel like he could handle it he should have (imo he should have) walked away.
A) I don't see any real similarity between the two in the first place and B) Clara would be so lucky as to compare to just about the best new-Who companion thus far
Rory>Martha>>>>every other companion
APZonerunner
Member
It doesn't have to be a sad ending for THEM, though. Amy & Rory live out a happy, long life together (doesn't the tombstone put them as dying in their 80s or 90s?), but the Doctor is still devastated because he is left alone.
It's the same with the Tenth Doctor. That's the true sadness of the end of Series 4, with the Doctor standing in the rain outside Donna's house - it's not that everybody is dead, and three or four scenes earlier Sarah Jane said "You act like such a lonely man, but look at you! You've got the biggest family in the universe" - it's that he's left alone after all he does. Every relationship he has goes toxic in one way or another. Rose ends up accepting the clone, which he needed her to do but still slays him. Donna forgets him. Martha can't be with him any more after what happened to her family, Jack & Mickey have lives of their own, etc.
I really do think that the Tenth Doctor leaves a markedly different man than he arrives, whereas the Eleventh I think departs largely the same man he emerged as in The Eleventh Hour. It's one of the key differences; the Tenth Doctor really does shift and change personality-wise throughout his run in response to the stuff that happens around him. He's a scarred a tortured individual by the end, even if a lot of the torture is self-inflicted.
- Status