yep. like i said in the post you quoted and then bolded.
easter eggs at best. none of these events feed back into the core gameplay which is my problem with gta5 and rdr2. i do not want a city with like five easter eggs. i want a living breathing city i can get lost in and impact with my actions.
i was shitting on skin shaders. there is no denying that their rtgi, rt reflections, and level of detail in environment is on par if not better than hardware lumen and nanite. just like AC shadows and Avatar, devs can get Ue5 quality results if they embrace rtgi and virtualized geometry which im pretty sure gta6 is using.You went from shitting on the game to better than ue5?
Boy and i thought women were volatile
Curious to see their rocks formations because shadows definitely didnt beat the best ue5 and i havent seen anything in gta6 tha look better than the best in wukong or the usual suspects but ok...
RTGI, most likely. At least some of the shots would be very hard to do otherwise.
its just the level of detail in each screenshot in general. you are not getting this in an open world without some kind of mesh shaders implementation.
i thought shadows overall was considered the best looking open world this gen? im debating whether or not crimson beats it, but shadows at least in this thread is very highly regarded.
i thought shadows overall was considered the best looking open world this gen? im debating whether or not crimson beats it, but shadows at least in this thread is very highly regarded.
i dont remember a lot of rocks in shadows, but they use virtualized geometry for everything thats not foliage. its why the castles and temples look so fucking good.
we will see what black flags does with rocks in a couple of weeks.
Shadows is far more even, it takes the cake for me.i thought shadows overall was considered the best looking open world this gen? im debating whether or not crimson beats it, but shadows at least in this thread is very highly regarded.
i dont remember a lot of rocks in shadows, but they use virtualized geometry for everything thats not foliage. its why the castles and temples look so fucking good.
we will see what black flags does with rocks in a couple of weeks.
Sometimes i kinda understand your tag
It still gonna have some fundamental design flaws that annoyed me a lot, i dropped after around 150 hours because it also many good things that push you forward but i wasnt able to finish it, curious to see how kuch it improved with the last 5-6 big patches.
Sometimes i kinda understand your tag
Guys this is simply unacceptable and immersion killing. WTF is this shit lol
I'm sorry dude but seeing someone call RDR2 stranger encounters "easter eggs" whilst praising Skyrim's procedural quests is one of the funniest things I've read in a while
I mean, its almost like they dont call all of their shots since they are a Sony company and all that
I have a panasonic z95b, a top gamma one.Which OLED did you get? I just picked up the 65 inch Samsung QD OLED that went on sale and it is soooooo good. It gets so bright I had to lower the setting. I'm trying to figure out if it's the new TV, PSSR 2, or whatever upgrades they made to the "remaster" but yeah this looks REALLY damn good. I use to say Part 1 looks better but nah.
I'm a big part of the problem.
I really hope the world feels alive and not just as a back drop.its just the level of detail in each screenshot in general. you are not getting this in an open world without some kind of mesh shaders implementation.
If someone can do it, it's rockstar.
Shadows>Crimson Desert. Crimson desert has too many weird lighting artifacts and some stuff looks straight up badi thought shadows overall was considered the best looking open world this gen? im debating whether or not crimson beats it, but shadows at least in this thread is very highly regarded.
i dont remember a lot of rocks in shadows, but they use virtualized geometry for everything thats not foliage. its why the castles and temples look so fucking good.
we will see what black flags does with rocks in a couple of weeks.
its just the level of detail in each screenshot in general. you are not getting this in an open world without some kind of mesh shaders implementation.
Witcher 3 and CP2077 arguably have the best side content in open world games ever imo. It's not even fair comparing any other game to those.
mmmh after scrolling through the official screenshot page for a bit looking for landcape pics I think you`re right. The tiny details in the distance in those scenes probably require some form of VG. Ofc it could all still be bullshots....We really need to see an actual in-game trailerits just the level of detail in each screenshot in general. you are not getting this in an open world without some kind of mesh shaders implementation.
Not sure if i agree about w3 and cp having the best sidestuff ever, but i agree with the rest.
Now we are talking, the game looks amazing to be honest. No complaints
My gf gifted to me the game in advanced for my birthday which is on the 21st of July. I look forward to your congratulations
ywe have 0 idea how much of gta6 screenies are total bullshots and how much of it could be some experimental maxed out pc build.
Actual proper gameplay on base ps5 or even pr0 would give us tons of data to analyze, all roads lead to rome aka us wanting that 3rd gta6 trailer
PeteBull
, this is not some experimental high end PC build. That's quite easy to prove if you go through this post.
SlimySnake
that GTA 6 is more advanced than any shipped UE5 game. The top 3 games right now (No Law, Clutch and ILL) are extremely limited in scope. If the next trailer holds up, GTA 6 will exceed in sheer scale, interactivity and robustness. Nanite is literally the only feature where UE5 wins hands down. The rest are trading blows or inferior at the moment.
T4keD0wN
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Bojji
unlike the Matrix demo, I'm yet to find a single glass pane (store windows, buildings and cars) that doesn't do RT reflections either. Car bodies seem to do RT reflections too:
Against my own advise, I decided to be a hypocrite and analyze these shots, as they didn't release a trailer (fuck you, R*), and I was actually pleasantly surprised. Aside from IQ and obvious staging, there is nothing in these shots that shoots above what the trailers already aimed, which they have confirmed to be captured on base PS5. I'm quite inclined to think these are actually unaltered base console photo mode shots, with no settings cranked up, apart from overall resolution. Even resolution, I can't say for sure as I never learnt how to pixel count. The overall image looks a bit too sharp and clean compared to the game footage. That's all I'm able to deduce.
Are they technically bullshots? Yes. But not the kind where we can't say anything for sure. And
And in terms of overall conclusions, apart from Hellblade 2, I would say GTA 6 does more graphically than any UE 5 game I've seen. And I don't think Hellblade 2 is a fair comparison. It's barely even a game.
In terms of tech:
Rage RTGI > HW Lumen GI
Rage RT Reflections >>>>> HW Lumen Reflections
Rage translucency effects >>>> UE5 translucency
UE 5 Nanite >>> Rage geometry (no idea if it's virtualized, but there are some low poly assets for sure. Certainly not as impressive)
UE5 megalights > Rage "megalights"
Rage Characters = Metahumans
Rage Hair >>> Metahuman hair (the physics and lighting are not even in the same league)
Rage Water >> UE 5 water
Rage Cloth = UE5 cloth (both are not that great TBH. Even Laufey does it better)
Rage Fur > UE5 fur
UE5 foliage > Rage foliage (so far. TBD)
UE 5 VSM > Rage shadow maps (still seem to be traditional shadow maps)
Bonus comparisons, but I won't count it as no game seems to use it yet:
UE5 experimental mesh terrain >>>> Rage terrain
UE5 substrate >> Rage (using car paint as reference)
May be Clutch uses substrate for paint? Not sure. Haven't investigated.
Just making these claims on UE5 based on gut feel and memory as I haven't bothered looking though all the UE5 games again. Consider them as hot takes. Happy to change my stance if anyone can present clear technical advantages (not art) in UE5. But overall, I do agree with
Now here's my analysis on the screens. Breaking this down in sections, as usual:
There's plenty of issues with the screenshots that you would not get if you cranked in-engine settings.
Dithered hair:
1/2 res RT reflections:
Noisy reflections (water and most other surfaces with RT):
Noisy RTGI:
Limited shadow draw distance (thanks for pointing this out
Possible shadow cascading too (see sudden distinct drop in PCSS sharpness after red arrow instead of a gradual fall off):
All of these are identical to the trailers on base PS5. Noisy RT reflections, for example:
Trailer
Not improved by even a smidgeon. I think it's safe to assume the visual features and fidelity, other than overall resolution, is representative of the final game on base consoles.
Looking at the shots. We can safely assume that ALL chrome has RT reflections. I would even go so far to say all mirror like surfaces (except water and actual car mirrors) get pure RT reflections. They seem to handle water much more selectively, which we have talked about. And I'll talk about my reservations on car mirrors later below.
This shot was actually the most impressive demonstration of RT reflections amongst all of the promo.
Not sure what I'm talking about? Let's zoom in.
You can see not just the back of Jason (end arrow), but the Sun that is lighting them from the left, the sky above, the car paint itself, the road and the world in front, all completely off screen space, except the car paint. Lower quality proxies in the BVH, obviously. But that's incredible/extensive detail on something so tiny. Anything more would have no additional visual impact. You can even see the second FUCKING fake light that is lighting them from the front (red arrow). *screams into pillow*
And this isn't a one off. It's there even on the tiny strip of chrome on the car's hood, from a different angle. First arrow shows Lucia's back, her brown jacket is clearly visible, followed by Jason (not as clear, but you can tell), followed by World and Sky
You see this behavior on all chrome in every single screenshot. Some more examples below:
Heck, look at the spokes in the wheel here. Every portion of a shiny spoke facing the sky, reflects the blue sky. And you can see the whole BVH accurately wrapped around the hub cap. Extreme divergence of blue sky reflections in all directions!
You can tell there is quite a bit of noise. Some people online coping by calling it "aged" chrome on vintage cars. It's not. It's just RT noise. The chrome on the boat railing above, for example, is not supposed to look "aged". It's just super noisy when you zoom in. At normal TV viewing distance, it should be fine even on base console, and may be cleared up on Pro. When PC, next gen is out, all these will be obsolete nitpicks.
Regardless of noise, I can't recall UE 5 games getting anywhere near this kind of accuracy. You get some basic ass 1:1 reflections. Not seen anything this complex.
I think even her fingernails have RT if the coat is reflective enough (not sure but worth paying attention to):
I'm still not certain if all car mirrors accurately reflect the world or not. Trailer 2 had some obvious shenanigans that DF missed. The screenshots show very accurate self reflections of the car itself in the mirror. But that isn't conclusive proof of world reflections imo. They may still be using some hybrid solutions to keep track of the moving/changing world around the car. TBD. I don't agree with DF's take on it. And if anyone wants to discuss it, happy to do that separately.
Now with water, the answer is even less clear. Here is a puddle with accurate RT
And a puddle with inaccurate/sky only/no RT
May be rain puddles on tarmac gets RT, but mud doesn't, because mud can move around, affecting those puddles in realtime? No idea. And we have already talked about water bodies. Just a mix of stuff and nothing conclusive. But looking at more screens, it's clear they are ray tracing to the sky at least. It never looks inaccurate in that aspect.
RTGI is everywhere in this game and I can't find a single spot where it fails. Obviously nowhere near PT. And it can certainly be noisy in lowlight, but it's not presenting any "boiling" correlation artefacts like Lumen. It's a very uniform noise that can easily be denoised with AI denoisers. Heck, it may even get cleaned up with PSSR, like it did for reflections in Alan Wake 2.
It's way too obvious everywhere for me to even bother analyzing. If anyone isn't sure or disagree, just quote me and I'll compile some evidence.
After a closer look, I'm pretty confident there is no downgrade with the shrub/grass in front of Jason's house. They are simulating foliage drying and wear over time. I don't think it's as extensive as simulating seasons (as the flowers seem the same), but certainly shows passage of time (the more you drive/walk on them the flatter they get?) and may be lack of maintenance. May be you actually need to water these plants. There is a lot of house maintenance work that's quite evident in the trailers and screenshots (roofing, floor repair, window blinds, visible fencing upgrade from mesh to wood etc). Watering plants does not seem like a stretch. And then there is rain that would play a part too.
These are not "flat" textures. You can see actual shadowing under them, as well as some dry yellow grass that still remains upright amongst them.
What you are seeing is a feature we have probably never seen in any open world game so far? LOL @ downgrade.
Foliage elsewhere is inline with current gen. You can see self shadowing, shadows of one affecting the other, sub surface scattering as well as specular highlights.
And yes, basic ass current gen green grass still exists elsewhere in the screenshots
The fly over has made it very clear that they have something similar to megalights in place. Though I'm not seeing them cast unlimited shadows the way UE5 does it. So perhaps not as advanced? I do see up to two light sources casting shadows even on small objects, like weapons. Red arrows for light direction and blue arrows for 2 shadows of the same shoulder rest/back of gun.
I can't recall if this behavior existed in RDR2, but they did this already with characters if I'm not mistake. A gun seemed like an upgrade, but someone can correct me if I'm wrong. Yet to spot anything casting more than 2 shadows though.
Just not ready to talk about skin on these shots. Too many issues with how they have taken shot them, like mentioned earlier. And makeup doesn't help. I did spot freckles on the tattoo artists skin, that looked very lifelike and convincing. You can see subtle variations/imperfections in skin tone throughout Lucia's leg as well. Beyond that, no further comment.
On a side note, her license should be revoked for looking at the camera without lifting her tattoo gun. Disaster waiting to happen.
Still going through them whenever I get time and will share more if I find anything interesting.
They don't look worse in lighting/shading. That's why I'm marking them as equal. They are worse in hair physics though. All that stuff that happens to Lucia's hair in all the footage, metahuman can't handle well out of the box. And now with all the new styles teased for both of them in the screenshots, I can only imagine.
Ah yes. Agreed. Totally forgot about them. Frostbite and Rage now have the best hair tech that's still practical on current gen.frostbite hair tech is amazing in dragon age.
Still hard to believe they wasted all those amazing technical skills to develop a game written by whichever team of buffoons wrote that.frostbite hair tech is amazing in dragon age.
Great analysis but till now we didnt even get proper gameplay vid, all screenies so far could be photomode/cutscene/in engine still 5x better than actual gameplay. We all know in engine or even realtime cutscenes can look even whole gen above actual gameplay.Against my own advise, I decided to be a hypocrite and analyze these shots, as they didn't release a trailer (fuck you, R*), and I was actually pleasantly surprised. Aside from IQ and obvious staging, there is nothing in these shots that shoots above what the trailers already aimed, which they have confirmed to be captured on base PS5. I'm quite inclined to think these are actually unaltered base console photo mode shots, with no settings cranked up, apart from overall resolution. Even resolution, I can't say for sure as I never learnt how to pixel count. The overall image looks a bit too sharp and clean compared to the game footage. That's all I'm able to deduce.
Are they technically bullshots? Yes. But not the kind where we can't say anything for sure. And
And in terms of overall conclusions, apart from Hellblade 2, I would say GTA 6 does more graphically than any UE 5 game I've seen. And I don't think Hellblade 2 is a fair comparison. It's barely even a game.
.
) i want us to be able to hold rockstar accountable, meaning u guys fed us lies that gameplay looked like this, yet it looks much worse and very similar to other studio's games.
