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[Guardian Monkey]

What is that from or about?

 

[playbignbox]

Lots of "Sony was scammed" comments lmao

Poor Sony, having to deal with the weight of its own decisions.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

Just shut them the fuck down, Sony.

They seem to be big fans of the "throwing good money after bad money" strategy.

On a related note, this makes me pretty glad Sony never actually managed to buy Square-Enix or FromSoft.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Welcome to the world of how every company making a big decision works lol

This is why you always have to take "insiders" leaks with a huge grain of salt, even if they have sources. Chances are those sources aren't executives, and huge changes can come down quickly w/o even a rumor happening among the lower level teams.

I've seen entire orgs wiped out at companies and nobody but the executives above the Director level knew it was coming.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Why do you assume they overpaid for Activision?

I've read these "overpaid for X company" comments from people on the internet for years.

Never do they explain what mathematical equation they use to assess a company when they buy studios themselves.

"I would have thrown that pass into the recievers hands so he would catch it."

It's just the vague phrase..."Overpaid" in unison...like a chant almost.

 

[Guardian Monkey]

What is that from or about?

Found it

Sorry but how would the team not know they were working on moment of triumph while working on moments of triumph. ?!?

Paul's answer doesn't make sense.

 

[Kerotan]

Best MP in the last 6 or 7 years honestly. Not understanding the hate unless its from people who just fundamentally hate the extra mobility

When you're in high sbmm lobbies there's a lot of lads abusing the movement with zens etc.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

Jim Ryan was the worst thing to ever happen to PlayStation.

Thanks to him, we got the pants-on-head live-service push, the closure of Japan Studio, the ouster of Shuhei Yoshida, and the promotion of Hirobot Totoki & Herman "Put It All on Concord" Hulst.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

I totally agree that the Underpants Gnomes "1. spend billions on acquisitions 2. ???? 3. Gamepass becomes profitable" strategy was a complete boondoggle.

But that doesn't mean Activision was overvalued. The thing is that there's so much intrinsic value in Activision itself, because its component parts (IP, studios) are themselves so valuable, that it can still more than pay for itself over time, even if individual titles (like Overwatch or CoD) see declines in popularity or Microsoft's overall strategy changes.

if they justified the $75.4 billion price based on their expectations of Gamepass growth, Xbox sales growth, and the continued growth of ABK's properties, and NONE of those things happen, then they overpaid. It's as simple as that.

And anything can "pay for itself over time" as long as it's not losing money. That is not a measure of whether it was worth the purchase price.

 

[IDKFA]

Just shut them the fuck down, Sony.

Nah.

I reckon they can be salvaged.

Get them to work on new FPS that isn't GAAS only. Like the OG Halo games. A FPS with a great single player campaign and multiplayer options.

 

[blacktout]

if they justified the $75.4 billion price based on their expectations of Gamepass growth, Xbox sales growth, and the continued growth of ABK's properties, and NONE of those things happen, then they overpaid. It's as simple as that.

It's not "simple as that." Everything you mentioned is an abstraction. The question of whether or not they overpaid is not contingent on whether abstract corporate goals are met, because those can change over time.

Instead, the rubric should be profitability and value retention, because that's what shareholders care about. Having a flexible asset that remains useful and profitable even as corporate strategy changes makes it more, not less, valuable.

Owning Activision gives Microsoft a lot of additional optionality as they pivot away from their failed GamePass strategy. Like, Activision is a huge asset regardless of whatever Microsoft decides to return to exclusivity or abandon the hardware race entirely and become a third party. Hell, it would even be valuable in a situation where Microsoft kills the Xbox brand entirely and sells their gaming division for parts, because all of its lucrative IP would make it the king of the fire sale.

And anything can "pay for itself over time" as long as it's not losing money. That is not a measure of whether it was worth the purchase price.

What? Of course long-term profitability is a measure of whether or not it was worth the price! Microsoft is a publicly traded company. The bottom line is always going to be more important than any individual strategic goal.

 

[Guardian Monkey]

What? Of course long-term profitability is a measure of whether or not it was worth the price! Microsoft is a publicly traded company. The bottom line is always going to be more important than any individual strategic goal.

To this point MS creates burn projects all the time because they can throw money at just about at anything to see if it catches on because they have the ability to do so. Regardless of these side projects they always have their cash cows, but they have to keep moving forward in new directions even if most don't pan out.

Best example is Sony, they would be done now if not for PlayStation just as they would have been done 20 years ago if not for their hardware sales keeping PlayStation afloat. You have to be balanced which means your going to fail a lot in the process.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Nah.

I reckon they can be salvaged.

Get them to work on new FPS that isn't GAAS only. Like the OG Halo games. A FPS with a great single player campaign and multiplayer options.

 

[LuxFixxins]

Sooo… studio close imminent?

Not continuing Destiny to try to turn marathon around?

I'm assuming they are hoping for a miracle with Marathon.

So they are gonna try to survive until after Christmas.. which is gonna be tough…

 

[PeteBull]

They seem to be big fans of the "throwing good money after bad money" strategy.

On a related note, this makes me pretty glad Sony never actually managed to buy Square-Enix or FromSoft.

Cuckman would make tifa muscular, flat and bald in FF7 remake, and in souls games from then on hardest boss would be HR bitch giving u hourly reminders about equality in her mandatory feminism studies lectures

 

[DarkShadowXI]

I'm tempted to log in sometime this summer and dismantle every single exotic item I've ever found lol

 

[VGA-Games]

Awesome

F*ck these Activists and their political Agendas in Video Games!!!

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

It's not "simple as that." Everything you mentioned is an abstraction. The question of whether or not they overpaid is not contingent on whether abstract corporate goals are met, because those can change over time.

Instead, the rubric should be profitability and value retention, because that's what shareholders care about. Having a flexible asset that remains useful and profitable even as corporate strategy changes makes it more, not less, valuable.

Owning Activision gives Microsoft a lot of additional optionality as they pivot away from their failed GamePass strategy. Like, Activision is a huge asset regardless of whatever Microsoft decides to return to exclusivity or abandon the hardware race entirely and become a third party. Hell, it would even be valuable in a situation where Microsoft kills the Xbox brand entirely and sells their gaming division for parts, because all of its lucrative IP would make it the king of the fire sale.



What? Of course long-term profitability is a measure of whether or not it was worth the price! Microsoft is a publicly traded company. The bottom line is always going to be more important than any individual strategic goal.

Man, I don't think you have any idea how this works. "Eventually turns a profit" and "worth the purchase price" are not synonyms. "Valuable" and "worth the $75.4 billion they paid" are not synonyms.

And MS did not buy ABK just hoping for "value retention". The expectation of some very strong growth was priced into it.

MS paid a 28x price-to-cash-flow ratio for ABK, meaning they paid $28 for every $1 they generate per year. You don't pay that kind of ratio unless you're expecting very fast growth, which you don't usually see from a large established company like ABK. This is why many people were concerned they overpaid even back in 2022 before we saw Xbox/Gamepass shit the bed and CoD decline in popularity.

Here, educate yourself:

Price-to-Cash Flow: Investment Uses, Formula and Calculation

The price-to-cash flow ratio may help investors spot undervalued stocks by using cash instead of earnings. Here's how P/CF works and how to use it.

smartasset.com

Did Microsoft Waste $69 Billion on Activision Blizzard? | The Motley Fool

The software giant paid a big premium while making compromises to gain regulatory approval.

www.fool.com

 

[Fake]

Cuckman would make tifa muscular, flat and bald in FF7 remake, and in souls games from then on hardest boss would be HR bitch giving u hourly reminders about equality in her mandatory feminism studies lectures

Tifa calling Cloud a bigot.

 

[blacktout]

Man, I don't think you have any idea how this works. "Eventually turns a profit" and "worth the purchase price" are not synonyms. "Valuable" and "worth the $75.4 billion they paid" are not synonyms.

And MS did not buy ABK just hoping for "value retention". The expectation of some very strong growth was priced into it.

MS paid a 28x price-to-cash-flow ratio for ABK, meaning they paid $28 for every $1 they generate per year. You don't pay that kind of ratio unless you're expecting very fast growth, which you don't usually see from a large established company like ABK. This is why many people were concerned they overpaid even back in 2022 before we saw Xbox/Gamepass shit the bed and CoD decline in popularity.

Here, educate yourself:

Price-to-Cash Flow: Investment Uses, Formula and Calculation

The price-to-cash flow ratio may help investors spot undervalued stocks by using cash instead of earnings. Here's how P/CF works and how to use it.

smartasset.com

Did Microsoft Waste $69 Billion on Activision Blizzard? | The Motley Fool

The software giant paid a big premium while making compromises to gain regulatory approval.

www.fool.com

Come on man, I'm having a good faith discussion with you. Don't try to drop that "educate yourself" bullshit on me. That's the same kind of thought-cancelling rhetoric that woke morons have been using for years to shut down discourse.

On top of that, you didn't even respond to my core point about preserving flexibility/optionality, and instead sidestepped them to focus on one narrow factor (price-to-cash-flow) that you cherrypicked from a link that's the first google result for "Microsoft overpaid for Activision."

 

[Boo Who?]

We are 100% on the same page...except for that last part. The budget is beautiful.

It took Michaelangelo 4+ years and 3,000 papal chamber ducats (wow!) to paint the Sistine Chapel. F*** anyone who thinks it should have a couple of stick figures up there. Greatness lies beyond comfort and safety!!

Yup. Totally as lovely as the Sistine Chapel.

 

[diffusionx]

Nice edit. Never said anything of the sort. You seem to be unable to accept that people just like different things to you and lambast those opinions don't align with yours. Thats fine if a little narrow minded. I won't belittle you for like things i don't like but crack on "dope"

When I said BO6 sucked you literally said I didn't play it lol

 

[Boo Who?]

Sell it back to Microsoft already and put them to work on more Halo. Fire all of 343 for good measure.

There is no one there from the prime Halo days.

 

[rkofan87]

love it f them bungee made their bed now they have to lie in it

 

[Odinnii]

Nah.

I reckon they can be salvaged.

Get them to work on new FPS that isn't GAAS only. Like the OG Halo games. A FPS with a great single player campaign and multiplayer options.

Marathon costed 250 M.

Bungie would probaby need at least double that to ship a game with SP, co-op and MP.

 

[rkofan87]

Nah.

I reckon they can be salvaged.

Get them to work on new FPS that isn't GAAS only. Like the OG Halo games. A FPS with a great single player campaign and multiplayer options.

lmao you are just as delusional as Men_in_Boxes

 

[Shtof]

You did this... stole my hopes and dreams for the future.

 

[Raven77]

Don't worry guys, at least they're not using AI to develop their games!

Right!?!

300+ million dollar budgets are totally fine!

 

[diffusionx]

Lots of "Sony was scammed" comments lmao

Poor Sony, having to deal with the weight of its own decisions.

Both statements are true. They were scammed and now they have to deal with the weight of their own decisions.

 

[PeteBull]

Both statements are true. They were scammed and now they have to deal with the weight of their own decisions.

Every1 on gaf knew sony fucked up back at the time of bungie aquisition and we called that shit out, 3,6b usd for this pile of shit was terrible waste of capital, even 500m usd would be but at least u could somewhat argue its calculated risk

News  Thread 'BREAKING: Sony is acquiring Bungie for 3.6b'

Jan 31, 2022

Sony buying Bungie for $3.6 billion

Sony Interactive Entertainment today announced a deal to acquire Bungie for $3.6 billion, the latest in a string of big…

www.gamesindustry.biz

More Info for Destiny 2 Players:

Bungie.net

www.bungie.net

Edit 2:

PlayStation: Bungie deal is about multiplatform, live-service games. Future Bungie releases to remain multiplatform as well.

PlayStation: Bungie deal is about multiplatform, live-service games

PlayStation's acquisition of Bungie may not result in exclusive PS5 games, but it will allow the platform holder to sig…

www.gamesindustry.biz

• Draugoth
• Replies: 2,993
• Forum: Gaming Discussion

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Now if bunch of armchair nobodies like us knew right away back in jan/feb 2022 that this was st00pid idea how tf supposed top of the top elite sony excecutives with high 7figures or maybe even 8 figures salaries couldnt figure it out- im sure they did just it wasnt "their" money so they didnt give a damn

 

[Iced Arcade]

Bungie being Bungie

Bungie didn't want to make anymore Halo's, Bungie doesn't want to make another Destiny etc

 

[Kerotan]

Found it

Sorry but how would the team not know they were working on moment of triumph while working on moments of triumph. ?!?

Paul's answer doesn't make sense.

Was there plans for a DLC around marathon launch but it was pushed back to summer and there was supposed to be another summer dlc?

 

[Hollywood Hitman]

Bungie and Microsoft separating was the worst move for both.

I think it's more bungie losing Activision was the worst move, Activision set them up big with 2 studios to help out and bungie was humming in those days. Everything was cooking. Activision was thought to be a problem but all along it was bungie was their own worst enemy.

 

[GloveSlap]

Honestly, Bungie has been on my "in decline" list since i first played the beta for Halo Reach and it's only gotten worse and worse since then.

 

[Plague Doctor]

Honest Question

Who's worse: Bungie or Halo Studios (343i)?

 

[LyricalShrike]

While I don't think that Marathon is going to pull a miraculous comeback, it does sometimes happen in the industry.

The games that did manage to come back had to basically start from scratch or change so much that it's an entirely different game.

Final Fantasy 14 absolutely bombed at launch and was one of the worst games I had played at the time. It was completely rebuilt from scratch and its new evolution was a major success. Even to this day.

Diablo 4 has changed and fixed so many things since it launched, that those that played it back then would be like "where was this game at launch??". But that took years.

Both of those franchises had an established track record over many decades with a dedicated fan base. Marathon doesn't have that going for it. Some Destiny players hopped over, along with people looking for a new extraction shooter. Lots of them have left.

I don't have the solution for Marathon. If I did, I'd be making a lot of money lol

Rainbow 6 Siege and Sea of Thieves had similarly rough starts. Both games were able to eventually build off good core gameplay and develop into successful games over time. Marathon's foundation is stronger than those two games. SoT was a barren wasteland compared to today and Siege was broken to the point of an entire season being dedicated to fixing bugs in it's early years. Marathon's confusing UX and onboarding experience are significantly easier problems to solve.

if they justified the $75.4 billion price based on their expectations of Gamepass growth, Xbox sales growth, and the continued growth of ABK's properties, and NONE of those things happen, then they overpaid. It's as simple as that.

And anything can "pay for itself over time" as long as it's not losing money. That is not a measure of whether it was worth the purchase price.

Activision only needs to generate more net income than the interest the cash was generating in the bank for it to be profitable to Microsoft. Activision never needs to be paid off since it's an asset. Microsoft can always sell part or all of Activision off over time to free up capital if it wants just like you can sell off shares of a company you buy.

 

[Fbh]

Welcome to the world of how every company making a big decision works lol

To be fair, they should have taken the hint from the Knitting classes.

 

[RickMasters]

Sony should sell them to MS, maybe they can fix halo

What is left of bungie can't fix halo. It's just bungie in name. All the key halo devs either stuck around at MS or eventually left bungie to do their own things.

 

[Raven117]

Rip Men_in_Boxes

My absolute first thought.

He assured me that Bungie was hiring and moral was good.

I don't like kicking a man when he is down, but I also don't like someone peeing on my leg and tell me it's raining.

So, with a little regret I say this.

Fuck you

 

[IDKFA]

Marathon costed 250 M.

Bungie would probaby need at least double that to ship a game with SP, co-op and MP.

Good point. Development costs at these massive western studios are just insane.

However, I don't think such a game would cost half a billion to make. That's crazy.

lmao you are just as delusional as Men_in_Boxes

Thanks for the respectful reply

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Every1 on gaf knew sony fucked up back at the time of bungie aquisition and we called that shit out, 3,6b usd for this pile of shit was terrible waste of capital, even 500m usd would be but at least u could somewhat argue its calculated risk

News  Thread 'BREAKING: Sony is acquiring Bungie for 3.6b'

Jan 31, 2022

Sony buying Bungie for $3.6 billion

Sony Interactive Entertainment today announced a deal to acquire Bungie for $3.6 billion, the latest in a string of big…

www.gamesindustry.biz

More Info for Destiny 2 Players:

Bungie.net

www.bungie.net

Edit 2:

PlayStation: Bungie deal is about multiplatform, live-service games. Future Bungie releases to remain multiplatform as well.

PlayStation: Bungie deal is about multiplatform, live-service games

PlayStation's acquisition of Bungie may not result in exclusive PS5 games, but it will allow the platform holder to sig…

www.gamesindustry.biz

• Draugoth
• Replies: 2,993
• Forum: Gaming Discussion

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• 
• 
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• 

Now if bunch of armchair nobodies like us knew right away back in jan/feb 2022 that this was st00pid idea how tf supposed top of the top elite sony excecutives with high 7figures or maybe even 8 figures salaries couldnt figure it out- im sure they did just it wasnt "their" money so they didnt give a damn

Even in the caricature pic he looks like an asshole.

Fuck this clown and his whole lineage.

 

[Edgelord79]

Destiny franchise has so much potential... It's just so strange how things played out, from the vaulting of purchased dlc onwards.

I still believe it has a lot more potential than something like Marathon but maybe it's time to rest the franchise a bit too.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

What is left of bungie can't fix halo. It's just bungie in name. All the key halo devs either stuck around at MS or eventually left bungie to do their own things.

Yep. They fired Marty O'Donnell for his political views. Who is even left from the "good old days?" The studio is like the ship of Theseus at this point.

 

[Shodai]

The days of games taking 5 years to make and hundreds of millions of dollars are coming to a close. Sony knows it, as does anyone clued in. Bungie will most likely persist as a brand, wouldn't make sense to just close that, but it's over.

 

[Alebrije]

Funny how Sony's Cheapest investment on GAAS was their Best generator of value...

 

[clarky]

To be fair, two years in and Call of Duty is dying.

Meanwhile in the real world here is the WAU for COD, just on on Playstation.

Call of Duty– 4.95 million.

Wrap it up boys COD is done apparently.

 

[splattered]

Jim Ryan was the worst thing to ever happen to PlayStation.

Thanks to him, we got the pants-on-head live-service push, the closure of Japan Studio, the ouster of Shuhei Yoshida, and the promotion of Hirobot Totoki & Herman "Put It All on Concord" Hulst.l these copanies

Feels like all these companies have shit the bed in one way or another this gen. Disappointing.

 

[Guardian Monkey]

Was there plans for a DLC around marathon launch but it was pushed back to summer and there was supposed to be another summer dlc?

They were suppose to announce something before. But they went dark, and now are like it's over. So the d2 crowd is pissed about that. But the team would know that they are working on moments of triumph it would seem to hat they would have figured it out you would think. As backgrounds reflect etc. just weird

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Funny how Sony's Cheapest investment on GAAS was their Best generator of value...

Games and movies are similar.

It's one of those kinds of industries where the assumption is the more money, time and people you throw at it the better it automatically is.

It's product lines where no budget is ever too high. More the better where some basic fiscal responsibility some reason gets thrown out the window. Look at Mindseye. Some sap investor company got swindled over $100M on it.

The people in charge probably care more about saving money on ensuring people print in B&W than colour. But when it comes to programing a game or shooting a movie, $200 or $300M no problem.

It's like they all got zero people tracking how things are going (zero finance people, zero project managers).

 

[Kerotan]

They were suppose to announce something before. But they went dark, and now are like it's over. So the d2 crowd is pissed about that. But the team would know that they are working on moments of triumph it would seem to hat they would have figured it out you would think. As backgrounds reflect etc. just weird

I played the edge of fate DLC and it was supposed to be the start of a new long term story arc related to the nine.

If the series is over now, it'll leave fans with a bad taste in their mouth if it never concludes this new arc. Maybe they'll save it for an eventual destiny 3 down the line.