ChorizoPicozo
Member
Maybe is because chuds have been winning and winning big lately (gaming media is scared of the backlash). But I could see a gaming article equating Marathon to the transgender experience.
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Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Marathon approaching 15k CCU low (sponsored by coachmcguirk91 - still having a blast)
An Corp
Member
It's a video game, not a real life person. If we want to celebrate the failure and downfall of GaaS, then who gives a shit?
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Hollywood Hitman
Gold Member
This all day
StreetsofBeige
Member
9 pm completed hour CCU. Peak reached just after 10 pm. Gave back half the gains from yesterday's patch drop
All time peak was launch day 88.3k. Today's peak at 24.5k is -63.8k or -72%
Today vs yesterday: 24.5k vs 26.6k (-2.1k or -8%). 24.5k peak is second lowest after Mon's 22.9k
Yesterday's low 7.5k. If the rate holds, low tonight will be 6.9k
Wed vs Wed: 24.5k vs 25.4k (-0.9k or -3%). Big improvement vs the usual -20%
Alternate method to estimate peaks and valleys (ballpark ratios)
On normal weekdays, 3:1. For example, a peak 30k will have a low of 10k. For Fri/Sat, gamers stay up playing so the ratio is 2.5:1
Steam Rankings
Daily Active Users 88
Global Top Sellers 49
Weekly Top Sellers 67 ending Apr 14 (was 41 last week)
Top Rated Games 5,671 (84.39%)
All time peak was launch day 88.3k. Today's peak at 24.5k is -63.8k or -72%
Today vs yesterday: 24.5k vs 26.6k (-2.1k or -8%). 24.5k peak is second lowest after Mon's 22.9k
Yesterday's low 7.5k. If the rate holds, low tonight will be 6.9k
Wed vs Wed: 24.5k vs 25.4k (-0.9k or -3%). Big improvement vs the usual -20%
Alternate method to estimate peaks and valleys (ballpark ratios)
On normal weekdays, 3:1. For example, a peak 30k will have a low of 10k. For Fri/Sat, gamers stay up playing so the ratio is 2.5:1
Steam Rankings
Daily Active Users 88
Global Top Sellers 49
Weekly Top Sellers 67 ending Apr 14 (was 41 last week)
Top Rated Games 5,671 (84.39%)
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Timberwolf25
Member
Zannegan
Member
Some variation of, "Just you wait!"
StreetsofBeige
Member
Cryo day is tomorrow, so like every cryo day so far it should get a bump. So if it hit 24.5k today, trending shows it's totally possible it hits 25-26k tomorrow. By Sunday, the peak will drop back down to be similar to today.
Then Monday it drops about 10%. So Monday would be about 22k which would be a new low. We'll see.
Then Monday it drops about 10%. So Monday would be about 22k which would be a new low. We'll see.
Nydius
Member
Honestly it was the visual design while playing the Server Slam which soured me entirely on the game. Knowing where you're being attacked from is already a challenge in most FPS games, even with good telegraphing systems. Trying to figure out where you're getting hit from and where both allies and enemies are while in the middle of an acid trip fever dream? Absolute nightmare.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
### Video Summary: The State of Marathon
This video provides a critical analysis of the current state of Bungie's upcoming game, Marathon, highlighting significant challenges in player retention and industry perception (0:09-0:46).
Key takeaways include:
Stagnating Player Metrics: The creator notes that Marathon is struggling to maintain a large player base on Steam, with concurrent numbers declining and failing to meet the expectations set by Sony's $3.6 billion acquisition of Bungie (6:18-6:31).
Developer Desperation: The video highlights that Bungie is scrambling to test experimental, more casual game modes that force the use of "free sponsored kits" to help balance the playing field for newer or less-equipped players (5:38-5:46, 16:04-16:12).
Playerbase Fatigue: There is a discussion about how Marathon's "hardcore" nature and punishing mechanics (like losing all gear upon death) are creating a barrier to entry, with some fans even brainstorming ways to help newcomers survive in high-stakes endgame content like the Cryo Archive (11:47-12:52).
Skill Creep: The creator argues that by pushing for more casual-friendly modes, Bungie risks creating "skill creep" in the remaining playlists, where highly skilled players are funneled together, making the game even more difficult for the average user (22:37-23:14).
### Conclusion
The video concludes that Marathon is currently in a "crisis" mode. Despite being a major project for Bungie, the game is suffering from poor reception and a lack of momentum. The creator suggests that the developers are in a difficult spot: if they lean too far into casual mechanics, they risk alienating their core audience, but if they remain too hardcore, the game may not be sustainable in the long term. Ultimately, the creator believes Bungie needs to take drastic, positive action soon, or the title risks following the path of other failed live-service games (19:54-20:23).
kat_on_the_roof
Member
I think I lost the plot completely.
What exactly have the chuds won big so far?
I only see games and studios failing and other studios becoming less likely to take a chance with something new.
Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. I'm not that deep in the Gaf meta game of predictions.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
I don't think you had the plot at all
Crismon Desert = New IP (so new that media doesn't even know how to label it)
Marathon = Old IP and chasing trends.
Its not a GAF thing. It's a market thing
cormack12
Gold Member
We play because the Bishop is hot.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Donald mac Ronald
Member
But how do you pull casuals in now the launch cycle and launch hype is over?
Even if they change to casual mechanics, are people all of a sudden going to buy it in the millions? Because this game needs to sell another 4 million just to break even.
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Moridianae
Member
You can't, simply because extraction shooters tend to be on the niche side of things.
Short of a total revamp(which is unlikely) the game is probably going to continue to trend down as it looks like the patch was a bit of a flash in the pan. Cryo/Patch may help today, but it'll end up being in the same cycle next week of decline.
It'll be sub 20k players by the end of April, most likely imo.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I mean look at the thread title, its an entire thread dedicated to the slow death of what many consider a bad game (sorry
Men_in_Boxes
)
Guilty_AI
Member
Its very funny how developers had this figured out for decades, Bungie included, yet now they keep stumbling over themselves.
How to have both a hardcore and casual audience simultaneously?
A- Bots: Have the option to play against computer controlled enemies that naturally won't be as difficult as meeting a bunch of sweats online using meta knowledge
B- Single player campaign: these games came with a SP campaign that was either its own custom story or a series of matches/carrer mode. Bonus points if it had coop.
C- Private sessions and custom lobbies: Rather than leave the matching to some algorithm, give players the option to play with and against whomever they want.
Why they dont do it? Probably because the previous systems make it harder to streamline players into a monetization pipeline. The more freedom players have, the more options they have for how their human-to-human interactions will work (or if they will exist at all), the harder it is to make them feel like spending $20 on a skin.
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Moridianae
Member
Their sentiment seems to have come to resigning to the reality that there isn't really any saving it, though.
Not before Season 2 and unless Season 2 is like a massive change, it's all she wrote.
CentralScrutinizer
Member
Zelda could never extraction but extraction could Zelda!
Darchaos
Gold Member
Destiny and Marathon together has a steam-ccu of 14k right now.......that is baaad. And when both games peak later on it will be max 35k. That is numbers that put Destiny alone in crisis mode before it died off to the numbers it has today. If i only could be a fly on the wall in the Bungie HQ right now.
Guilty_AI
Member
So apparently they're experimenting a new mode where all players are forced to enter the match using a free, basic loadout and upgrade throughout the game. The goal with this is attract casual players.
So, Bungies experimental solution to their extraction shooter is turn it into an arena shooter
. Whats your take
Men_in_Boxes
?
So, Bungies experimental solution to their extraction shooter is turn it into an arena shooter
. Whats your take
Men_in_Boxes
?
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StreetsofBeige
Member
That's because decades ago games were made on small budgets with dedicated nerdlingers who put in effort to churn out best games they could on limited hardware, budgets and time. When youre in that situation, there's always in a survivalist and hustle mode. Similar to how the most business savvy companies arent necessarily Walmart, but that third tier retailer who grinds it out hustling to the last dime with suppliers. Walmart head office will coast as long as the cost they get is good enough, while Bob's hardware store might get better costs than Wally.
So what happened is giant budgets, resources and time showed up and employees milked it to the last drop. So instead of some solid fully featured games that come out every two years with modest budgets, it somehow now takes 5-6 years with skyrocketing resources and time to churn out less. Or after all that, it gets cancelled because it stunk. What a waste. But they still got paid. Doesnt make sense shitty work still leads to getting paid but that's how the cycle of employer/employee/customer works. You still get paid for years doing a bad job.
But that's what happens when you get paid big money with lax accountability. Think of it like pro sports. Notice how all the rookies and guys making min league salaries are always hustling to make the team and score a big contract? And then when they get that big contract most of them instantly dump into the toilet where everyone sees they got overpaid? Guy got paid big money for all star numbers. Gets the deal and everyone expects all star numbers to continue. Nope. He somehow regresses big time start of new season. Just to show how trending that is, the media always brings up which guys are in contract years, so expectations are he'll suddenly try his best this year to get that huge contract in the summer. But you'll never hear that hustle if he's in year 3 of a 6 year deal. He's in coast mode.
Same thing with gaming. Once they seemed to get giant resources and money, 5+ years to make a game, and free food and dry cleaning etc.... everything seemed to screamed taking the foot off the gas.
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Ogbert
Member
So, a sort of gimped battle royale, with far fewer players.So apparently they're experimenting a new mode where all players are forced to enter the match using a free, basic loadout and upgrade throughout the game. The goal with this is attract casual players.
So, Bungies experimental solution to their extraction shooter is turn it into an arena shooter
diffusionx
Gold Member
No, it's absurd. This is the same company (in name) that spent 3 years making Halo 3 with a full campaign, a full multiplayer suite with tons of modes and maps, a level editor, and an arcade mode with scoring.
This is a single game mode and 4 maps.
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Guilty_AI
Member
More akin to the assault mode from UT, except everyone is the attacking team. Would work somewhat similar to domination too
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Hollywood Hitman
Gold Member
What's sad is if bungie would've said let's make the next halo, a game that captured the feel and excitement of halo pvp and pve... A whole new world designed etc but making the next iteration of arena shooter, I would've been there with bells on and I'm sure I'm not alone.
StreetsofBeige
Member
So apparently they're experimenting a new mode where all players are forced to enter the match using a free, basic loadout and upgrade throughout the game. The goal with this is attract casual players.
So, Bungies experimental solution to their extraction shooter is turn it into an arena shooter
The stupid thing is all these imbalanced lobby issues could be fixed if they got SBMM. Halo and Destiny have it. But some reason Bungie has a hard on to not have it in Marathon.
But they are probably sticking to their gut the core game REQUIRES imbalanced lobbies so curb stompers could have their fun looting. If they make it too equal, the core gamers will complain losing their gear just like many gamers complain about SBMM in COD. You dont even lose gear in that game and you still got complainers.
So they are trapped with a game loop that is divisive so they cant adjust it for everyone in the same mode. But need to splice it out so casuals and hardcore gamers each have their own mode. Splicing just dilutes the gamer pool into silos which they shouldnt do since the CCU is already way down. But they are in desperation mode so they are doing it.
Absolutely poor sense of gameplay planning. And that goes on top of the majorly limited amount of content compared to any other shooter out there. I didnt even play the game, but just going on what I see and read about it I could tell a mile away there would be lobby issues. And Bungie is supposed to be master GAAS experts who know what theyre doing since Halo and Destiny games. LOL
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Zacfoldor
Gold Member
The rare incel victory is not our creation:
Perhaps a far right victory for AC Shadows next?
It's Pachters.
Ogbert
Member
I still think that will be super sweaty. Unless they do something about the TTK, casuals will still get eviscerated.
Roman Empire
Member
The constant updates shows that Bungie is trying to salvage the game. The problem? Player number are already going to what they were before the update.
I don't know how much bungie can change the game to keep casuals interested while still "respecting" their more hardcore base. This is type of tug-of-war you don't want to do with your community.
I don't know how much bungie can change the game to keep casuals interested while still "respecting" their more hardcore base. This is type of tug-of-war you don't want to do with your community.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Extraction can do Arena Shooters.So apparently they're experimenting a new mode where all players are forced to enter the match using a free, basic loadout and upgrade throughout the game. The goal with this is attract casual players.
So, Bungies experimental solution to their extraction shooter is turn it into an arena shooter
Arena Shooters can't do Extraction.
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The fastest this "genre" dies, the quicker devs scared to hell, can come up with another GAAS fad, hopefully not as trash as this one, but you never know, I'll take the risk tho, "extraction shooter" is even worse than "hero-shooter" and that one was lame as hell from the get-go, this way the GAAS well dries up even faster until there is no shit viable for it, other than big brands pulling games that support it, like the typical GTA, Sport Games, some TPS/FPS here and there, but not much else, because not every game has to be this constant GAAS machine trying to monetize every second you spend on it
Hollywood Hitman
Gold Member
Moridianae
Member
Probably worth noting that ARC has a pretty major update coming later this month, I think.
Gonna be big problems for this game headed to the end of April if the decline stays.
Gonna be big problems for this game headed to the end of April if the decline stays.
StreetsofBeige
Member
They weird thing about extraction shooters is there's little content to the games compared to decked out shooters with SP, offline bot mode, lots of maps and modes. Some games even have a BR mode too.
The fastest this "genre" dies, the quicker devs scared to hell, can come up with another GAAS fad, hopefully not as trash as this one, but you never know, I'll take the risk tho, "extraction shooter" is even worse than "hero-shooter" and that one was lame as hell from the get-go, this way the GAAS well dries up even faster until there is no shit viable for it, other than big brands pulling games that support it, like the typical GTA, Sport Games, some TPS/FPS here and there, but not much else, because not every game has to be this constant GAAS machine trying to monetize every second you spend on it
But they've all somehow carved out a shooter mode into its own game for $40.
The big problem marathon has the other games don't is that it's small map COD style shoot outs. The other games have giant maps you can do your own exploring where getting into trio team gun battles is less focus of the game.
That's probably why other extraction shooters are much more successful. The genre itself is supposed to be more about surviving and looting and exploring than shoot on sight like it's COD gunfights every 30 seconds. If people want lots of firefights they'll play any one of the million shooters there's constant action.
Bungie seemed to have thought there was a untapped market of shooter dudes who want the looting and progress of extraction where fast gunplay is a priority in small maps.
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BurningNad
Member
The only big bump I can see them getting is if they go F2P, or add a pure PvE mode which they won't do.
This probably isn't the greatest comparison, but another extraction game, Let It Die: Inferno, is constantly in the single digit CCUs. However they just got into season 2 and added a pure PvE mode. I get that that type of game lends itself to that type of mode, and it's on a MUCH smaller scale of development and costs, but they're still updating for those few people. It'll never spike up to anything acceptable. Why wouldn't they just let it die (pun not intended)? Point is, I really don't think Marathon will be shut down. It'll be relegated to a team similar to Hunt and it'll do same ballpark numbers and they will have to accept that (as will all of us).
Otherwise it'll never see even 50k again and I think that's being generous. They have to be happy with niche performance for their niche shooter in order to stay alive. I'm fine with that, I don't have to no-life the game and it will be nice to be able to jump in every now and then.
Venzik
Member
But can extraction doing an arena shooter... do a zelda?Extraction can do Arena Shooters.
Arena Shooters can't do Extraction.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
The great innovation of shooters was when they figured out how to make losing fun. I really noticed this in Fortnite back in 2017.
It can be fun to lose in Marathon but a lot of the time it isn't. I'd estimate 20% - 40% of PvP engagments in Marathon are ass.
When Bungie gets that (lame fight) percentage down to 5% - 15%, it'll do wonders for its player population.
The reason why everyone is wrong about Marathons long term chances is because, unlike in Concord or Call of Duty, you can theory craft a million ways to improve upon its PvP.
That said, it is odd how this idea of losing being fun, isn't a primary design pillar in every PvP studio across the globe.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
No, the nature of Marathon is hot PvP. That makes it somewhat limited in how they can open up its sandbox to other playstyles.
Hollywood Hitman
Gold Member
I really hope you're just playing a character, like WWE or something
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Guilty_AI
Member
I knew you wouldn't disappoint meExtraction can do Arena Shooters.
Arena Shooters can't do Extraction.
StreetsofBeige
Member
Best way imo to improve casual access is simply sbmm or just reduce the number of gamers per map so the gunplay is spaced out.
What are matches? Up to 18 players in teams? That's retarded. That's the same as COD big team mode. At least for that it's only two teams at 9 vs 9. Reduce it to 12 players. 4 teams of 3. Each one can dabble in their own corner of the map before beelining to shoot outs.
Either of these two changes (or both at the same time) would affect the sweaty nature of the game without even needing to make dedicated noob lobbies or tweaking gear.
But some reason Ziegler wants to make marathon one part extraction loot + one part COD killing.
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Yup. SBMM is common sense, but they should attack the problem from multiple angles.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
So... The Omega Genre was BR after all. And of course, Pearl Abyss doesn't know what it wants from Crimson Desert, but Bungie does with Marathon.
Plague Doctor
Member
So... The Omega Genre was BR after all. And of course, Pearl Abyss doesn't know what it wants from Crimson Desert, but Bungie does with Marathon.
Obligatory meme
Guilty_AI
Member
So... The Omega Genre was BR after all. And of course, Pearl Abyss doesn't know what it wants from Crimson Desert, but Bungie does with Marathon.
"Extraction can do Battle Royale"
-Men_in_Boxes
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