Steve Holt
Member
For over a grand, that's it's?? 25% I was expecting at least 50%+ with all this hype. Ah man.
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[MLiD] Project Helix is 25 Percent Faster Than PS6
- Thread starter LectureMaster
- Start date
- Rumor Hardware
SupaComputa
Member
Doesn't matter when devs put while loops with sleep in them to tank performance.
20% doesn't matter much with ML upscaling soon becoming the norm even on Consoles. Unless Microsoft is using an Nvidia GPU at the last minute and can push more path traced titles over Sony, then it won't matter.
Just look at RE:9 with DLSS/FSR4/PSSR2/Whatever, 1080p upscaled to 4K looks pretty good and it's getting harder to notice say 1080p vs 1440p with ML upscaling. The difference in that title is path tracing and if AMD keeps sucking at that Microsoft are almost pointlessly chasing the performance crown and just making their Console more expensive.
Just look at RE:9 with DLSS/FSR4/PSSR2/Whatever, 1080p upscaled to 4K looks pretty good and it's getting harder to notice say 1080p vs 1440p with ML upscaling. The difference in that title is path tracing and if AMD keeps sucking at that Microsoft are almost pointlessly chasing the performance crown and just making their Console more expensive.
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ReasonBeing
Member
Helix won't sell 10M in its lifetime. I don't believe MS is banking on integrating tech and feature sets that will require much custom development to take advantage of its feature set. At least, that's my guess as any other path just wouldn't work out.
bender
What time is it?
It just feels like Microsoft refusing to cut bait on the sunk R&D cost and running out this ground ball. I don't see it having an audience of any significant size at the rumored pricing which surely needs to go up due to our current component environment and allowing it run other launchers is a recipe to not allow it to rebuild the Xbox brand nor take advantage of your own store front. That doesn't factor in the cost of supporting hardware and the software running on top of it. So, 'what even is the point?' seems apt.
Sanepar
Member
A console apu with a rtx 5080 is not bad at all.
Unfortunatecookie
Member
If the rumors are true and the device is comfortably over $1K then they would be lucky to not crash and burn like the ROG Ally X just did.
Agreed. I think the 25% difference could show up -- more noticeably -- in some of the AI stuff they're rumored to be working on, e.g., an AI guide. If Helix's AI guide is faster than PS6's AI guide, that could be an advantage that's meaningful to people.
meech
Member
Next xbox will have an Npu for ai tasks.
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Bojji
Member
He was 90% right (minus inflated TF numbers) with first Pro leak he had, with Sony documents and stuff.
ReasonBeing
Member
Success is relative, and I don't think MS had super high expectations that the $1,000+ handheld was going to move many units. The product is strictly there to offer a Xbox/MS branded alternative to SteamOS. Same reason the Helix will exist.
Edited: forgot to include important context.
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Haint
Member
They aren't releasing for at least 2 years and PS6's GPU will be equivalent to the AMD RX 1060 or RX 1060XT (successor to the current RX 9060 or 9060XT)
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666
Battlebus imprisoning me \m/ >.< \m/
Nice one, shame about about the other 500 'predictions' and 'leaks'.
Guy is a fat retard for a reason.
GoldenEye98
posts news as their odd job
Fall 2027 is before "at least 2 years"
@KeplerL2 also said (and if I'm wrong, please correct me if anything has changed in this time) that the difference will be closer to that between the PS4 Pro and the Xbox One X (than XSXvsPS5) because this time the Helix was better in every important area: CPU, GPU, VRAM, CUs, clock speed, etc.
As always, the games will eventually reveal the true extent of the performance differences and of course Will depend in games to games, but that doesn't change the fact that MLD's article is nonsensical and full of contradictions.
"25%" when it's previously described:
1- That this ~25% is in rasterization power.
2- That the CPU is ~20% better.
3- He claims the PS6 is 12x better at ray tracing than the PS5, and previously stated that the Helix is 20x better than the Xbox Series X at ray tracing.
4- He claims not to know the amount of VRAM in the Helix, which is up to 48GB GDDR7 vs. the PS6's 30GB... The Helix is also faster...
In short, MLD doing what MLD usually does. 10%-25%-35%-40% ... Whatever the difference... but MLD in that respect (speculating on theoretical performance) is the worst possible source and his article es and example.
Unfortunatecookie
Member
Of course, and for a ginormous entity like MS, it's extra relative when it comes to their gaming business.
If the next battle for them is exclusively against Steam, they're already starting off shaky. Their strategy with any hybrid/portable should not include any premium version. Go after the cost of entry.
Haint
Member
RAM sticks are $1000 and Nvidia has defacto discontinued most of their consumer GPU's, they ain't launching consoles with 30GB or 48GB of GDDR7 in 2027. They'll be paper launches of a couple hundred thousand units world wide if they try and no on will actually be able to buy them.
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Stuart360
Member
I think if they could get this out a year before PS6, slap a years Gamepass Ulitimate with the console, and it would have a chance at shifting some units.
If it releases the same time as PS6 then i dont see who will buy it other than Gamepass subs, and Xbox fans with large collections of games, dlc's and mtx etc.
There will always be console only gamers that dont want to game on PC, even if we are talking a high price console. Its going to sell, but what the limit is no one really knows.
If it releases the same time as PS6 then i dont see who will buy it other than Gamepass subs, and Xbox fans with large collections of games, dlc's and mtx etc.
There will always be console only gamers that dont want to game on PC, even if we are talking a high price console. Its going to sell, but what the limit is no one really knows.
J Required
Banned
I guarantee you, that's what will happen. Cheaper, more efficient and with similar performance.
Radical_3d
Member
I don't disagree. And depending on the OS situation I might get one.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
There will be AI, alright.
Steve Holt
Member
I disagree tbh. If this thing is priced over a $1000-$1500 and no one other than Microsoft will be stocking it, why would people want it.They haven't provided any reason so far. The price alone is absurd.
The people who want to do PC gaming - will already have one.
And all that aside people will be willing to wait for a PS6 imo.
I fail to see anything but MS trying to squeeze somewhere between the traditional high powered gaming PC's and low cost PC boxes. I think they will be saying here's our "moderately" priced small factor PC box where you can do all your PC stuff and also play more demanding games. IMO. The gap they are trying to fill is extremely small. Slapping a console tag on it, is just paying the lip service to its remaining core Xbox audience. We really don't even know what their plans are.
In times like these, where certainty is a luxury, planning seems more like an act of faith.
In times like these, where certainty is a luxury, planning seems more like an act of faith.
EverydayBeast
ChatShitGPT Alpha 0.001
Wouldn't be the first time an Xbox console is more powerful
Bojji
Member
Wouldn't be the first time an Xbox console is more powerful
True, First Xbox was way more powerful, 360 was more powerful and X1X was WAY more powerful.
ReasonBeing
Member
I suspect you are right, but I'm personally happy they are going this route.
J Required
Banned
Hear you
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Wouldn't be the first time an Xbox console is more powerful
Generic
Member
The Helix will probably be $1000, no way the PS6 will release for $400.
//DEVIL//
Member
They didnt use GDDR7 with 9070xt. highly doubt any of the new systems will.
Bojji
Member
It's confirmed they will.
//DEVIL//
Member
oh nice. i missed that I guess ? thought they just announced the project name thats all.
Bojji
Member
Not by Sony or MS but RDNA5 on PC will use GDDR7 and all the leaks point to consoles using this as well. Otherwise with 160bit bus PS6 would suck ass.
Steve Holt
Member
Another power meme thread coming?
Generic
Member
A platform that can run both console and PC games, with multiple stores, free online and cloud saving could be revolutionary.
But just like Play Anywhere and Gamepass, I don't expect it to gain too much traction, because most gaming consumers enjoy paying more for less.
//DEVIL//
Member
wasnt the rumor that the PS5 is not a full RDNA 5 ?
you are right though, it will suck if they still stuck with 6 or 6x. but I mean... I am not expecting much from a mainstream box that should retail around 500$ to 600$. unless these numbers are no longer an option for Sony at least.
Bojji
Member
It's not full desktop like RDNA5 but it has all important features defining this architecture.
PS6 will be massively better in RT and machine learning, but pure raster power jump will not be very big compared to previous gens (2.5-3x vs more than 5x on PS5 vs PS4). And probably like 2x or more CPU power?
It will have ~2x more memory.
Bernardougf
Member
Yeah +25% seems too low for a box that will have to run a lot PC games not optimized directly for it vs a console gettting games developed many times as a primary source.
Mr.Phoenix
Member
So it will sell more?
DavidGzz
Member
PCs are already that much more and we still buy them. My PC was $3k and I would never trade it for a weaker PC with a walled garden, one store, pay to play online, and no mods. If someone is in the market for PC gaming but also wants console games like GTA6, it may be enticing. But of course, someone can just buy a PC and a PS6 instead. Not arguing against that. It's nice to have choices.
Also, I'd like a PC with Xbox support as in if there are any defects I trust a warranty on a console from MS than the warranty and service from iBuyPower or any other PC manufacturer.
midnightAI
Member
Ok, but would you buy a fixed hardware console for that amount of money or would you just buy an actual PC? Or perhaps spend less money and get a PS6?
(Don't forget, the Series X was being touted as much more powerful than the PS5 and looks how that turned out. Raw specs mean little these days and will probably mean even less when these come out due to AI enhancements)
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Bojji
Member
Nope.
DavidGzz
Member
I'm not your typical case. I take my PC to work every day so having a more compact one would be amazing. I was looking at the Steam box but if this is more powerful and allows me to play GTA 6, and allows easier modding of games, I am going with it. Also, even if I were a at home only gamer, I buy all consoles. I bought a XSX (gave to my daughter), XSS, PS5, PS5 Pro. I'm an edge case lol. I'm getting PS6 too, for sure.
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Mr.Phoenix
Member
Makes you wonder what's the point then... I see stuff like this, and all I think is that not only has MS just not learned its lesson, but they obviously have more money than they know what to do with it.
Having the most powerful console (or whatever they want to cal this) doesn't mean anything, especially when it's likely going to cost 25-50% more. And the crazy thing is, their pricing will allow Sony to "give people a deal" and come in cheaper... even though still being pricer than a console should ever be. Sigh.
