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Obsidian CEO Feargus Urquhart, Says Xbox Game Pass Has Redefined Success For Games

“Feargus Urquhart”…
di2o8xg.gif
 

GHG

Gold Member
MS = / = gamepass.
But go a head and complain MS actions in a thread about gamepass.

Oh so you also want to be purposefully obtuse?

Since I have to spell it out. This:

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/halo-infinite-had-the-biggest-launch-in-series-history-with-over-20-million-players/


Somehow led to this:


https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/t...es-hit-hard-by-microsoft-layoffs-9919521.html


Unless you're going to tell me
"MS = / = gamepass" when it comes to 343i?

But to be honest I don't know why I bother when all that's coming next is some disingenuous "thatwasdifferentthough.gif" type response.
 
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feynoob

Banned
Oh so you also want to be purposefully obtuse?

Since I have to spell it out. This:

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/halo-infinite-had-the-biggest-launch-in-series-history-with-over-20-million-players/


Somehow led to this:


https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/t...es-hit-hard-by-microsoft-layoffs-9919521.html


Unless you're going to tell me
"MS = / = gamepass" when it comes to 343i?

But to be honest I don't know why I bother when all that's coming next is some disingenuous "thatwasdifferentthough.gif" type response.
Gamepass is a service, but go a head with this stance.
It has nothing to do with Xbox studios.

MS is the one who is laying of their employees.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
  • Instead of revenue in Dollars, success is instead measured by hours spent in-game.
lmao, this is absurd. They aren't getting paid in "hours spent at home or office." They get paid in dollars.

Looking forward to seeing their next big RPG is, but I hope their games don't get influenced by the average in-game time.
 

MacReady13

Member
That is easy to say when the company that owns you has pretty much the deepest pockets in the world. Microsoft don’t worry about sales numbers but measure success based on time played. If all gaming companies were that rich it would be fantastic!
 

Handel

Member
Obsidian is MS's best studio atm, Pentiment and Grounded were both in my top 5 last year. Glad that GamePass exists and allows for such games to be created within the studio.
 
Everyone in here saying this means more GAAS games is not really thinking. How many big budget GAAS games have failed to meet expectations over the last few years? Off the top of my head I can think of Avengers, Halo Infinite (not strictly GAAS), Babylon's Fall, etc.....

I think this means that the ratio is no longer just " how much did we spend relative to how much dollars came in". The new ratio is "how much did we spend relative to how many hours have people put in".

This is actually good for smaller projects in my opinion. If games like Grounded and Pentiment are made by small teams with interesting idea, but they have a comparatively higher amount of time played for the cost then it's a big win. It's bad for projects like Halo Infinite where they spent $500 million bucks and can't even stay in the top ten most played games.

Overall I think this outlook leads to better outcomes for gamers. We should keep seeing devs take more chances.
 

StueyDuck

Member
I mean that's not necessarily a good thing...

Buuuut in a perfect world it is a good thing because surely in this perfect scenario a game would be more creative and less designed to sell to masses

Buuuuut MS loves money and so does any company ever so I call a bit of BS on that statement as a whole and say that we are in the honeymoon phase still of subscription gaming.

Eventually it's either gonna be disneyfied or netflixized where it's designed purely for tiktok masses (every game is fortnite) or it will just get canceled after season 1 🤣

Money will always be the biggest contribution to any products success
 

A.Romero

Member
How can hours spent in-game matter unless monetization is based on it? I mean I guess if you are selling advertising space then the longer the exposure matters, but that seems like the only situation where it should.

Because at the end of the day isn't that just arguing that longer, grindier experiences are "better" than short, snappy ones? And if that's the case, what does it say about the industry going forwards?
The implication is that more engagement will keep people suscribed, just like the Netflix model. More chances for microtransactions too of course. I mean if someone doesn't by the game the chances are zero but if someone tries the game on a sub then chances are higher than zero.

It's a good but risky strategy. It entirely depends on a massive number of subs and spending just the right amount of money on content: too high and you eat on margin, too low and you lose interest and therefore subs.

Only a company with deep pockets and true willingness to enter the market like Microsoft could really stomach to try.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Yes, I think we'll see more Pentiment type games. They don't require a $200m budget like a God of War.
That'd be truly sad if one of the biggest and richest companies in the world didn't make $200-$300 million AAA blockbusters and instead mostly made AA titles that smaller and indie developers make.

Xbox has the resources that very few companies in the world has. I hope they utilize it to the fullest and give us something that no other gaming company can. Otherwise, what's even their USP.
 

Warablo

Member
Most of the online games focus on player counts and engagement. Since all the games are fighting over limited peoples times these days.
 
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Dr.Morris79

Member
That'd be truly sad if one of the biggest and richest companies in the world didn't make $200-$300 million AAA blockbusters and instead mostly made AA titles that smaller and indie developers make.

Xbox has the resources that very few companies in the world has. I hope they utilize it to the fullest and give us something that no other gaming company can. Otherwise, what's even their USP.
I do believe that good ol Microsoft has some heavy hitters coming out. I doubt we need to worry yet.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
I do believe that good ol Microsoft has some heavy hitters coming out. I doubt we need to worry yet.
To be very honest, even their big games don't have that kind of ambitious scope anymore -- one that amazes and creates that feeling of 'awe' and 'wow.' Redfall is one of the big AAA games, and it looks very mid at best.

There is no game on the scope of TLOU 2, RDR 2, TW3, God of War Ragnarok, etc. Phil Spencer calls Starfield and Elder Scrolls mid-sized games. Guess I'll just wait until they truly show something that would blow our minds; I just have very little hope at this point.
 

ZehDon

Member
Oh so you also want to be purposefully obtuse?

Since I have to spell it out. This:

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/halo-infinite-had-the-biggest-launch-in-series-history-with-over-20-million-players/

Somehow led to this:

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/t...es-hit-hard-by-microsoft-layoffs-9919521.html

Unless you're going to tell me
"MS = / = gamepass" when it comes to 343i?

But to be honest I don't know why I bother when all that's coming next is some disingenuous "thatwasdifferentthough.gif" type response.
I don't disagree with the premise of your posts, however, I do feel it's worth highlighting in this specific case that the single player component - available on Game Pass - and the multiplayer component - available for free - both counted in the launch figure. However, it's the multiplayer that likely contributed to 343i being gutted, as that was expected to bring in the big long tail revenue, and it hasn't. Supporting this is that retail game - which has no multiplayer - seems to have sold perfectly fine, while the firing of the CEO didn't happen until after Multiplayer Season 3 was delayed. Rumours floated that the S3 delay was the final straw, because it meant Microsoft's big "live service" was dead. The failure of Infinite's multiplayer has nothing to do with Game Pass, so the gutting of 343i would have little to do Game Pass, too. In 343i's case, I'd say they took heavy losses because Microsoft gave them enough rope to hang themselves, and they damn well hung themselves.
 

feynoob

Banned
I don't disagree with the premise of your posts, however, I do feel it's worth highlighting in this specific case that the single player component - available on Game Pass - and the multiplayer component - available for free - both counted in the launch figure. However, it's the multiplayer that likely contributed to 343i being gutted, as that was expected to bring in the big long tail revenue, and it hasn't. Supporting this is that retail game - which has no multiplayer - seems to have sold perfectly fine, while the firing of the CEO didn't happen until after Multiplayer Season 3 was delayed. Rumours floated that the S3 delay was the final straw, because it meant Microsoft's big "live service" was dead. The failure of Infinite's multiplayer has nothing to do with Game Pass, so the gutting of 343i would have little to do Game Pass, too. In 343i's case, I'd say they took heavy losses because Microsoft gave them enough rope to hang themselves, and they damn well hung themselves.
They know the reason for halo failure was the F2p model. They don't want to tell that to themselves.

The good old trend these days is to shit on gamepass model, like the old 1$ gamepass talk.

They always bring gamepass player numbers, and how gamepass eats sales while ignoring other external sales like steam.

In this case, halo failed to make money from live service model, due to how badly 343i failed in term of contents. Not to mention they specifically separate the 2 mode, which negatively affected the SP mode momentum, due to these bad news from the F2p side.
 
Player engagement being a success metric makes the cynical side of me think that the future of gaming is GaaS. We’re already seeing it a lot but I imagine it’ll be more prevalent moving forward for AAA games.
 

Lasha

Member
Gamers have used this metric for years. Metal Gear Solid was called "the ultimate rental" because you can beat it in a few hours. How often do we see good games dismissed because they are too short? Sidequest bloat is a direct result of customer preference. Measuring success by hours players have spent in a game isn't that far of a leap from how games are already designed.
 

feynoob

Banned
Player engagement being a success metric makes the cynical side of me think that the future of gaming is GaaS. We’re already seeing it a lot but I imagine it’ll be more prevalent moving forward for AAA games.
The money that these Iive service games bring is irresistible to these devs/publishers.

MS/Xbox destroyed halo while chasing this model.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Gamers have used this metric for years. Metal Gear Solid was called "the ultimate rental" because you can beat it in a few hours. How often do we see good games dismissed because they are too short? Sidequest bloat is a direct result of customer preference. Measuring success by hours players have spent in a game isn't that far of a leap from how games are already designed.
That's not necessarily the counter-argument, though. The main point is that vanity metrics like hours played and the total number of players do not put money in developers' pockets.

Success begets success. It is a bad idea to downplay dollar revenue, because it is still the most important metric for game sales.
 

feynoob

Banned
That's not necessarily the counter-argument, though. The main point is that vanity metrics like hours played and the total number of players do not put money in developers' pockets.

Success begets success. It is a bad idea to downplay dollar revenue, because it is still the most important metric for game sales.
You think people play games they bought?
Both metrics have their pros and cons.

You have to remember that these games are the hard work of these publishers/devs.

While sales are important for any game, they will also like more people to play their games.
 

ZehDon

Member
Player engagement being a success metric makes the cynical side of me think that the future of gaming is GaaS. We’re already seeing it a lot but I imagine it’ll be more prevalent moving forward for AAA games.
We know Sony is making a deep play into GaaS, however, those would be excluded from their subscription service, as all major PS5 releases are. Sony is shifting to a GaaS focus because it wants microtransaction money from whales, not higher player engagement numbers. GaaS simply make a lot of money because of the microtransaction spending and many Game Pass titles don't have microtransactions. That's what Game Pass does - it allows non-GaaS titles to produce a recuring revenue stream via Game Pass itself. Microsoft is banking on economies of scale to make that work, and so far, it is. Players aren't interesting in subbing to access games that then require lots of additional purchases. That's not what Game Pass is for, that's what F2P is for, such as Halo Infinite's F2P multiplayer. So, I'd wager Game Pass retains its eclectic list of titles for the foreseeable future. Games like Starfield and Hellblade 2 are more useful for Game Pass than games like Destiny 2 and Lost Ark.
 

AmuroChan

Member
That'd be truly sad if one of the biggest and richest companies in the world didn't make $200-$300 million AAA blockbusters and instead mostly made AA titles that smaller and indie developers make.

Xbox has the resources that very few companies in the world has. I hope they utilize it to the fullest and give us something that no other gaming company can. Otherwise, what's even their USP.

I'm sure they still will, but not necessarily single player only. They'll be like Halo or Gears, which will have a campaign, but also have multiplayer that they can monetize.
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
In the past 5 years, these companies were seemingly pushing this world where sales don’t matter, numbers don’t matter, it’s dopey stuff like “engagement.” It’s not the first time, especially in tech, but it was wrong then and it is wrong now. You need to make money! “Hours spent” doesn’t matter if the players are doing it for free. I bought 3 years of Game Pass for $1, and got to play games that cost tens or hundreds of millions of dollars to make for virtually nothing, the numbers do not add up and they can never add up. Forza 8 just *looks* expensive, considering the timeframe it’s probably a $150M+ game at this point. You need a lot of people paying for subs to cover that, how many? well MS won’t say but I suspect it’s a lot more than they have. But wait MS is also dropping all their other expensive games on the service.

Whenever you hear “the rules have changed”, or “the economics are totally new”, or anything like that, run for the hills because the person saying that is running a con. Especially when they are saying this in reference to things like revenue not being important anymore. No, it always is.
 
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AA tier games are great for gamepass. I'm guessing Microsoft can use it to recruit AA studios and maybe build them up for there?

But I'm highly questionable of Xbox consistently creating big budget AAA games like GOW, RDR2, Assassin's Creed, TLOU2. There are reasons why you practically never see big budget movies on streaming services. The money to recoup and profit from those budgets just doesn't exist when releasing day 1 on a streaming service. I think it will be the same thing for Gamepass. AAA games are just getting more expensive to produce. Unless Microsoft somehow monopolize the hardware side of the industry, I just don't see them generating enough money to do that
 

Metnut

Member
This is going to be a tougher go for Microsoft going forward. Sony is aware of the Gamepass threat and is playing hardball with publishers (as we’ve seen in some of the statements made in the Activison acquisition litigation).

Basically if you want to release a game on PS5, you generally need to either (1) not release on Gamepass for X amount of time, (2) out the game on Sony’s subscription service on the same terms you offered to do for Gamepass. Most publishers don’t want to do #2 because they’d rather get the PS sales since, unlike MS console holders, Sony console holders are more likely to pay full price for games.

Sony is making much harder for publishers to go Vamepass day 1 and full price for PS1 on day1. We’re going to see whether older games and Microsoft’s fee first party offerings are enough to keep Gamepass going once a lot of the cheap promo offers start to run out. Based on Microsoft’s recent earnings report, it does look like Gamepass is running out of steam.
 

Three

Member
lmao, this is absurd. They aren't getting paid in "hours spent at home or office." They get paid in dollars.

Looking forward to seeing their next big RPG is, but I hope their games don't get influenced by the average in-game time.
They get paid by MS regardless. I think MS' KPI is engagement. So "hours spent" directly translates to money for them. I don't know how MS measures performance and revenue shares their different studios but I suspect it's based on hours played like spotify is plays.
 
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Monthly active users; time spent playing; over 25s playing between 6pm and 10pm.

Gamepass allows us to do things we could never dream of.

With this attitude of it doesn't matter if we fail crap, I'm sure it won't affect quality over time, right guys?
 

NickFire

Member
For people that are dismissing players engagement.

If a game has 20m gamepass engagement, there is a chance for 1m-5m out of 20m potential sale. That is a huge win for devs.

But I guess you guys won't care about that.
Player engagement most certainly matters a great deal. Whether sales, subs, or micros, no one spends if they aren't playing. The statements being discussed in this thread still strike me as silly though, and my guess is they were planned out to give the influencers a way to argue how successful their favorite company is. Exhibit A = the guy said the company still operates the same despite how success is now measured differently. Might as well just say we have two measures of success. The PR kind and the real kind.
 
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