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Uninspiring GeForce RTX 4060 Ti performance and sub-US$500 price targets leak

Draugoth

Gold Member
csm_IMG_20210129_171335_Bokeh_1_839de6ddc0-q82-w480-h.webp


source

The RTX 4060 Ti is rumored to pack an AD106 Lovelace GPU, 4352 CUDA cores, 8 GB of GDDR6, and a TDP of 160 W. Latest reports from leaker kopite7kimi and MyDrivers suggest that the board will only bring a conservative performance uplift over the RTX 3060 Ti while costing less than US$500.

We reported a couple of days ago that the RTX 4060 Ti may have a significantly reduced TDP than earlier rumors suggested. The report was from serial leaker kopite7kimi who has since shared new information regarding the performance of the RTX 4060 Ti.

According to kopite, the RTX 4060 Ti will perform like an RTX 3070. This would make the RTX 4060 Ti only 10-15% faster than the RTX 3060 Ti. If true, this marginal performance gain could disappoint many fans who were hoping for another generational leap akin to the RTX 3060 Ti that saw a massive jump in graphics capability, as the GPU matched the RTX 2080 Super performance for US$300 less.

The RTX 4060 Ti’s less-than-ideal performance also has implications for the RTX 4060 non-Ti. Previous leaks stated that the RTX 4060 non-Ti could be 20% faster vs the RTX 3060 essentially matching the RTX 3070. Assuming kopite’s latest report is accurate, the RTX 4060 will undoubtedly be weaker than an RTX 3070 and hence would just be an incremental upgrade over its predecessor.

Finally, MyDrivers' sources suggest that Nvidia is making these "performance adjustments" to ensure the RTX 4060 Ti price will be less than US$500.
 

Zug

Member
It's strange that the 4070ti is between a 3090 and a 3090ti, and this presumed 4060ti would be at 3070 level, big gap here. Though, it would leave room for a 4070 at 3080 level...
 
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Abriael_GN

RSI Employee of the Year
It's funny to see how people continue to obstinately ignore DLSS 3.0. Whether it's artificially limited to the 40 series or not, it is awesome. Never saw a flight simulator running as fluidly as MSFS with it, and not even by a small margin.
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
It's funny to see how people continue to obstinately ignore DLSS 3.0. Whether it's artificially limited to the 40 series or not, it is awesome. Never saw a flight simulator running as fluidly as MSFS with it, and not even by a small margin.
Because by all accounts it is only good once you are already hitting a decent framerate. Once (if) they get it working perfectly for 30fps then the majority of people will start to care.
 

Leonidas

Member
8 GB, are they serious?

3060 is 12 GB.

Are they serious?
3060 Ti, 3070 & 3070 Ti were all 8 GB, this card should have similar performance to the 3070s and should also have a cheaper MSRP.

Wait, isn't there already a 3060ti that performs about as well as a 3070?(The one with GDDR6X )
Has it even launched? I haven't seen any professional reviews of that card... at any rate, the 4060 Ti should end up being the better card due to the advanced node (efficiency) and new features.
 
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Leonidas

Member
If it pans out the way it is rumoured: 3070 performance for a 3070 price, ~2 years after the 3070 released...
Who says it will be 3070 price? That'd make no sense.

Every 40-series card released so far has shown an improvement vs. previous gen at each respective price point (4090 6% more for 60% more performance vs 3090. 4080 same price as 3080 Ti for 30% more performance, 4070 Ti $800 for previous flagship performance, there was no $800 card last gen, but if there was it would probably have performed slightly better than the 3080), why would Nvidia stagnate the mid-range price points?
 
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dave_d

Member
If it pans out the way it is rumoured: 3070 performance for a 3070 price, ~2 years after the 3070 released...

vIf0lAD.gif
Well maybe it will be available at MSRP for a change:messenger_beaming: (Seriously though I have a 3070 that I some how got at $570 back at the start of 2021 but it's an overclocked 3rd party one.)
 

kiphalfton

Member
If it pans out the way it is rumoured: 3070 performance for a 3070 price, ~2 years after the 3070 released...

vIf0lAD.gif

Yeah, well look at the RTX 3090 Ti and RTX 4080. The RTX 3090 Ti I think was going for $1100 on sale at one point, and the RTX 4080 is $1200-$1400. Price to performance is roughly 1:1.

So if this is on par with the $500 RTX 3070, that would make perfect sense.
 
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Warnen

Don't pass gaas, it is your Destiny!
For $350 a good 1440p card. Anymore more would not be worth it. All card prices need to come WAY down...

Meh, don’t think prices going down until unsold inventory piles up. Amd might be for ya, at low-mid end most people don’t care about RT and upscalers so might stand a chance.
 

PhoenixTank

Member
Who says it will be 3070 price? That'd make no sense.

Every 40-series card released so far has shown an improvement vs. previous gen at each respective price point (4090 6% more for 60% more performance vs 3090. 4080 same price as 3080 Ti for 30% more performance, 4070 Ti $800 for previous flagship performance, there was no $800 card last gen, but if there was it would probably have performed slightly better than the 3080), why would Nvidia stagnate the mid-range price points?
You're ignoring how top heavy the current generation is compared to Ampere having very good middle of the pack prices. 3060/Ti/3070 were pretty decent sweet spots if you could get them at RRP. The 3080 wasn't cheap but at RRP a very good deal compared to Turing too... Anything above it provided very little extra for the money and basically was prescalped price-wise. 3090 had an argument for the gobs of VRAM for certain uses. Previous "flagship" performance for the 4070Ti is laughable when it sits between 3080 and 3090Ti. It varies, but where it gains in places it loses in others.
Mining is dead. Pandemic is kinda over. I do not believe 5nm costs them as much as they would have me believe. EUV is slower IIRC so there is that.

We're getting into the "actually decent value RRP" last gen territory now.
3070 RRP was $499 - i.e. technically below $500 just as this is rumoured to be. I'm expecting $450 - would that be progress? What is a good price for you for 3070 performance in 2022?
4070 at $650. Predicted numbers pulled out of my arse - so don't take it as anything more.

I don't know why they would, Leonidas. A sodding 3050 still sells for a depressing amount so I don't have much insight to offer beyond the Mr Krabs "Money" .gif right now. The 1630 was a slap to the low end buyers. They wanted $100 more for the 4070Ti before the rebadge.

Sorry for the mini wall. I'm not here just to have a moan at you I'm just very disheartened and pessimistic about the market - so I hope I'm wrong and the trend of BS does not continue. I want to be able to recommend GPU products to clients again in the same way that I can say "Intel & AMD have some fantastic CPUs on offer at great prices".

Well maybe it will be available at MSRP for a change:messenger_beaming: (Seriously though I have a 3070 that I some how got at $570 back at the start of 2021 but it's an overclocked 3rd party one.)
There isn't insane demand outstripping supply now. It should be at what they set, outside of OC model = +$50 shenanigans.

Yeah, well look at the RTX 3090 Ti and RTX 4080. The RTX 3090 Ti I think was going for $1100 on sale at one point, and the RTX 4080 is $1200-$1400. Price to performance is roughly 1:1.

So if this is on par with the $500 RTX 3070, that would make perfect sense.
That's the cynical and twisted way my brain sees it now too. Want to change that outlook.
 

Leonidas

Member
You're ignoring how top heavy the current generation is compared to Ampere having very good middle of the pack prices.
They've only released the high end cards so far...
The only thing I care about is that I get more for my money for the same price I paid last gen. Every 40-series card does that, and that should continue into the midrange.
Previous "flagship" performance for the 4070Ti is laughable when it sits between 3080 and 3090Ti.
4070 Ti beats the 3090. You couldn't get 4070 Ti level performance at any price two years ago. The only last gen card it loses to is 3090 Ti (I'm going by Techpowerup numbers), which is a card that probably should not have existed, but since it does exist I guess you can deny 4070 Ti of it's flagship performance...

3070 RRP was $499 - i.e. technically below $500 just as this is rumoured to be. I'm expecting $450 - would that be progress? What is a good price for you for 3070 performance in 2022?
$450 ($400 if we're lucky) is about what I expect for the 4060 Ti (at 3070-like performance), considering inflation and the fact that it will be more efficient and have more features I'd say it's fair. Not great, but it's progress.

4070 at $650. Predicted numbers pulled out of my arse - so don't take it as anything more.

I don't know why they would, Leonidas. A sodding 3050 still sells for a depressing amount so I don't have much insight to offer beyond the Mr Krabs "Money" .gif right now. The 1630 was a slap to the low end buyers. They wanted $100 more for the 4070Ti before the rebadge.

Sorry for the mini wall. I'm not here just to have a moan at you I'm just very disheartened and pessimistic about the market - so I hope I'm wrong and the trend of BS does not continue. I want to be able to recommend GPU products to clients again in the same way that I can say "Intel & AMD have some fantastic CPUs on offer at great prices".
That's about what I expect from the 4070 too, $600-$650, that would also at least be progress compared to the 3080 at $700.

Even if the 4070 launched as the 4080 12 GB at $899, it wouldn't change my view of this gen's pricing much. It would have still been progress as it would have been faster than a 3080 Ti at $300 cheaper.

All I care about is performance/dollar increasing at every price point. And that's what we're getting... there is no 40-series card that hasn't increased performance per/dollar at it's given price point.

I'm over the pessimism about pricing. Inflation happened, console prices aren't going down either. It is what it is. GPU prices aren't great, but they could be a lot worse.

When there is signs of actual stagnation, that's when I'll maybe become pessimistic. For now, there are no signs of it.
 
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DaGwaphics

Member
If they are only $50 off the price/performance of the last gen cards, has there ever been a more pathetic group of products released in the GPU space? 2 years later and this is what they offer. I guess the new GPU trend will be to upgrade every 3 or 4 generations, rather than 2. Seems like it would take that long at any given price point to make an upgrade worth while. And AMD look like they will be trapped in a similar position in order to protect pricing on the 7900 series. Intel is the only hope LOL.

Though I guess the 3060 was already heading in this direction. Great for the consoles, they aren't going to feel the same pressure as they normally would from the budget PC hardware.
 
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CrustyBritches

Gold Member
For Pascal and Turing the xx60 card was as powerful as the xx80 from the previous gen. With Ampere the xx60 card was a powerful as the xx70 card. Now with Ada the xx60Ti is as powerful as the xx70 card. Where does this leave the 4060? 3060-3060Ti level for $399-449? Amazing.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
For Pascal and Turing the xx60 card was as powerful as the xx80 from the previous gen. With Ampere the xx60 card was a powerful as the xx70 card. Now with Ada the xx60Ti is as powerful as the xx70 card. Where does this leave the 4060? 3060-3060Ti level for $399-449? Amazing.

Outside of the highest end cards, you really have to look at the 4000 series lineup as just equivalent product replacements for the outgoing parts (4070 replacing the 3080 and so on). The only benefit being that they will be cheaper to produce for Nvidia to keep their numbers strong even as unit sales plummet.
 

Neo_game

Member
Obviously the perfromance from 3060ti seems very minimal but IMO people these days are simply caught up with naming convention.160 TDP and 3070 performance is not that bad. The target audience for this are not are guys with older gpu something like 2060 or 2070 at best
 

DaGwaphics

Member
Obviously the perfromance from 3060ti seems very minimal but IMO people these days are simply caught up with naming convention.160 TDP and 3070 performance is not that bad. The target audience for this are not are guys with older gpu something like 2060 or 2070 at best

What will bite Nvidia here is that buyers have a tendency to skip generations because the performance uplift between two generations is what they feel is a reasonable purchase.

In this case, if a 2070 buyer didn't bite on the 3070 (likely because they didn't feel the uplift warranted it and were waiting for something better) will they bite on a 4060ti that offers that same performance at basically the same price? Seems like they'd just be waiting on the 5000 series to be honest. In names only, they could look at the 4070 to get 3080 performance, but the price will likely be just about the same as the 3080 as well.

Will make the used market interesting for sure. Since generally those are cheaper but weaker, now the used 3080 will be cheaper and be just about as good as the 4070. That will be a unique position to be in.
 
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CrustyBritches

Gold Member
I would probably go for a $250-300 used 3080, but after the recent RX6000 GPU die cracking fiasco I wouldn't buy a $500 used 3080 unless it came from somebody I knew. This isn't to say all mining cards are shit. I bought 3 ex-mining RX 470s back in mid-2020 with my stimulus money and built PCs for my kids and they all still work. At ~$75 they were a steal and even if they fail the amount of gaming time they've gotten from them was worth it. It's a different story if you drop $500 and the die cracks or it fails after a year or 2.
 

PhoenixTank

Member
They've only released the high end cards so far...
The only thing I care about is that I get more for my money for the same price I paid last gen. Every 40-series card does that, and that should continue into the midrange.
Yeah that is not what I'm talking about - the 3090 offered very little more than the 3080 for the money asked.

We're used to this bell curve for price to performance right? X Axis is cost or absolute performance. Y axis performance per dollar.
Not perfect as it should be a little bit flatter but whatever, roll with me here.

NHnomMK.png

3060/Ti/3070 all in the middle segment. 3080 about level with H from High. 3080 10G, 3080Ti , 3090, 3090Ti following at various points after that.
710, 1030 wayyy on the left, 1630/1050Ti, and 1600 series on the nearer to the right but still bad.


For the 40 series, here have hasty late night plots.: At 4K from the techspot MSRP details. Frames per dollar rather than dollar per frame to match up with the bell curve/normal distribution above.
pi2nP6G.png

Y Axis is just labelled not a good indicator of price, but it is baked into the line with frames per dollar.

Add in the potential 4060 Ti at $450 using the 3070 data... and yes the scale matters but this is still a reallllly flat graph. There is no sweet spot to be had there and I don't think it will change when the whole line up is here.

8YoQGbv.png



4070 Ti beats the 3090. You couldn't get 4070 Ti level performance at any price two years ago. The only last gen card it loses to is 3090 Ti (I'm going by Techpowerup numbers), which is a card that probably should not have existed, but since it does exist I guess you can deny 4070 Ti of it's flagship performance...
Deny? I don't care about scoring points. I care that it isn't that much better performance than a 3080 for the money required. 3080 12GB and above were irrelevant cash grabs.

$450 ($400 if we're lucky) is about what I expect for the 4060 Ti (at 3070-like performance), considering inflation and the fact that it will be more efficient and have more features I'd say it's fair. Not great, but it's progress.
Stagnation to me. Efficiency? Big whoop, expected with a node shrink. Features? Frame generation? I see that as a harder sell as the average frame rate gets worse.

That's about what I expect from the 4070 too, $600-$650, that would also at least be progress compared to the 3080 at $700.
Maybe you're right but we also don't know the expected performance do we?

Even if the 4070 launched as the 4080 12 GB at $899, it wouldn't change my view of this gen's pricing much. It would have still been progress as it would have been faster than a 3080 Ti at $300 cheaper.
Again, 3080Ti was a cash grab. Compare to 3080.

All I care about is performance/dollar increasing at every price point. And that's what we're getting... there is no 40-series card that hasn't increased performance per/dollar at it's given price point.
That is the absolute baseline requirement but it is trending the wrong way.

I'm over the pessimism about pricing. Inflation happened, console prices aren't going down either. It is what it is. GPU prices aren't great, but they could be a lot worse.

When there is signs of actual stagnation, that's when I'll maybe become pessimistic. For now, there are no signs of it.
I wish I had your optimism. Consoles are usually razor thin margins, or a loss, Nintendo aside. They make their money from software but still do not want to be making a steeper loss. They'll have calculated attach rate and what they can sensibly absorb on average. The increase in costs is apparently too high for Sony, so price goes up.

In contrast, Nvidia keeps relatively fat margins for itself. Radeon group follows suit.
Balancing act is bad enough for AIBs that EVGA Alt+F4'd out of the game.

Why is the CPU market so much better? Purely the smaller chip sizes?
I'm just seeing people being rinsed. Less diminishing returns at the high end which is great for some with deeper pocket but makes me think the mid range is getting shafted or the low end is going to be priced out of the market. Higher margins at the high end, slimmer lower down has been the way it works, made up for by relative volume of sales.
 

GreatnessRD

Member
Lol, I bought a GTX 1070 with 8GB RAM in 2016. Still going strong. I’ll upgrade again with the next large RAM bump to 16GB.
I don't blame you one bit. Prices are trending to insane territory, but I'm hopeful the market will correct this absurdness with the 5000 series/8000 series.

But if you wanted to bump up now, the 6700/6750 XT at 12GB and the 6800/6800 XT at 16GB are priced to go right now, too. Unless you're strictly an Nvidia person. Then you'll probably have to wait until the 6000 series, lol.
 

Leonidas

Member
Deny? I don't care about scoring points. I care that it isn't that much better performance than a 3080 for the money required. 3080 12GB and above were irrelevant cash grabs.
I'll compare 40-series to the 3080 (and lower tier 30-series cards) when the 40-series reach those price brackets.

Why is the CPU market so much better?
Is the CPU market that much better? For a CPU you have to also buy a motherboard, RAM and a cooler.
Motherboard prices are up. DDR5 is more expensive than DDR4. CPU cooler prices also seem higher than they used to be too.

Before AMD started slashing prices on Zen4 you had to spend a ludicrous amount even if you just wanted a piddly 6-Core Zen4 rig.

And flagship mainstream CPUs these days are $700, it used to be $350 for the flagship mainstream CPU.
 
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Abriael_GN

RSI Employee of the Year
Because by all accounts it is only good once you are already hitting a decent framerate. Once (if) they get it working perfectly for 30fps then the majority of people will start to care.

The fact that it turns a decent frame rate into a great frame rate is far, far from irrelevant as some people paint it.
 

nkarafo

Member
3060 Ti, 3070 & 3070 Ti were all 8 GB, this card should have similar performance to the 3070s and should also have a cheaper MSRP.

These cards were released 2 years ago and 8GB was already on the low side back then.

VRAM amount isn't about performance, it's about being able to fit the graphics and textures. Imagine having a fast core that can run a game at high settings/60fps but being forced to reduce the resolution/texture quality because it can't fit in the VRAM. That's the worst bottleneck you can have.

8GB in 2023 is the new "2GB in 2015" deal. I did the mistake buying the 960 2GB back then because i was told "2GB is enough" but less than a year later i had problems with RE7 and i had to play the game at 720p because it wouldn't fit in those 2GB, even though the game would otherwise run at 60fps (the 960 core was far superior to the PS4 GPU). Nobody needs to do the same mistake i did then.

At least, the 960 was a cheap card. Not a "current day cheap 500$ card" bullshit. A properly cheap card at around 250$. And now you are telling me it makes sense to pay 500$ to get a card with the, currently, absolute minimum amount of VRAM, which is only 2GB above my current 1060.... A 300$ card i bought 5 years ago. You seriously think 8GB is enough now for 1440p gaming or, let alone, in a year from now?
 
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fermcr

Member
Graphics cards prices are absurd. Nvidia and AMD are robbing us blind. I wish someone else entered the graphics cards market and gave them real competition...
 
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